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RE: 2009 NBA Draft

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RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 1/21/2009 9:53:41 AM   
Pete M.


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Status: offline 		Here's the thing, Dustin--if the Wolves trade for Wallace, I wouldn't mind them drafting Curry, because they could use some perimeter shooting. If they don't, I'd agree that more of a pass-first guard would be nice. The Gerald Henderson idea is nice, but I just don't know if he fits into the Wolves' overall framework. I wonder where Kyle Singler would go if he came out--he's a pretty nice-looking NBA small forward.
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RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 1/21/2009 10:12:15 AM   
djskillz


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Status: offline 		Ya, it'll be interesting, Pete.  My main point with Henderson is that the Wolves really need more aggressive slashers on the team.  The biggest problem with this team, among many problems, is that they do not move well at all.  At least not off the ball, with cuts, etc.  A good team HAS to have that.

And as for Warren, I absolutely see him as a PG, and I definitely see his PG skills.  They're much greater than Teague's IMO.

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RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 1/21/2009 10:13:48 AM   
Pete M.


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Status: offline 		By the way, I love Gerald Henderson as a player--I think he's going to be very similar to Andre Iguodala in the NBA. But if Randy Foye turns into your above-average starting SG, where does Gerald Henderson fit? I think with his athleticism, he could play a little 3 at the next level, but I don't think that's ideal. 
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RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 1/21/2009 10:25:08 AM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete M.

By the way, I love Gerald Henderson as a player--I think he's going to be very similar to Andre Iguodala in the NBA. But if Randy Foye turns into your above-average starting SG, where does Gerald Henderson fit? I think with his athleticism, he could play a little 3 at the next level, but I don't think that's ideal. 


Oh, I'd agree.  But if you have a 5 of Warren/Foye/Wallace/Al/Thabeet, then you still need rotational guys.  I think Henderson could be that guy.

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RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 1/21/2009 11:27:20 AM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elliot

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

It does really depend on where the Wolves pick.  If they get lucky and pick in the top 3, they should take Rubio.


I seriously doubt Rubio comes out.  I don't care what Chad Ford says; everything I've read says he has a monster buy-out and NBA teams are limited in terms of % they can contribute.


He's not coming this year He has a 7M Euro buyout. That's a touch over 9M US.

NBA teams are allowed to only pay 500,000 towards a buyout, leaving over 8,500,000.00

Looking at the rookie salary scale for 2008, the #1 picks got:
Year 1: 4,019,000
Year 2: 4,320,400
Year 3: 4,621,800
Year 4: 5,828,090
Qualifying: 7,576,520

So if Rubio got that deal, he'd lose a bit more than his first 2 years salary for the buyout - he better get a HELL of an endorsement deal upfront.
Post #: 30
RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 1/21/2009 11:34:43 AM   
Elliot


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elliot

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

It does really depend on where the Wolves pick.  If they get lucky and pick in the top 3, they should take Rubio.


I seriously doubt Rubio comes out.  I don't care what Chad Ford says; everything I've read says he has a monster buy-out and NBA teams are limited in terms of % they can contribute.


He's not coming this year He has a 7M Euro buyout. That's a touch over 9M US.

NBA teams are allowed to only pay 500,000 towards a buyout, leaving over 8,500,000.00

Looking at the rookie salary scale for 2008, the #1 picks got:
Year 1: 4,019,000
Year 2: 4,320,400
Year 3: 4,621,800
Year 4: 5,828,090
Qualifying: 7,576,520

So if Rubio got that deal, he'd lose a bit more than his first 2 years salary for the buyout - he better get a HELL of an endorsement deal upfront.


Thanks for providing the figures, DL.  Like I said, I'd be shocked if he came over for 09.

Another interesting story is Jennings, who is clearly frustrated in Europe.  Unless something changes significantly, he's going to have to make a tough decision: enter the draft when his value is down; or stay another year, hope his playing time increases and his value goes up.  My guess is that he'll declare for 09.  I think he's doing his best to put on a happy face but he's miserable.

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RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 1/21/2009 11:37:37 AM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

And DL, again, I agree on Thabeet, and I've mentioned the same worry many times.  But this draft SUCKS for true C's. 


That's exactly the type of thinking that leads to drafting lottery picks like Felton Spenser, Luc Longley, Patrick O'Bryant, DeSagana Diop, Vitaly Potapenko, Samaki Walker, Cherokee Parks, Adonal Foyle, Todd Fuller, Eric Montross, Stacy King, Kwame Brown, Sharone Wright, Shawn Bradley, Yinka Dare, Aleksandar Radojevic, Darko Milicic and Michael Olowokandi.

Does any position bust more frequently than Centers?
Post #: 32
RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 1/21/2009 11:39:30 AM   
Elliot


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

And DL, again, I agree on Thabeet, and I've mentioned the same worry many times.  But this draft SUCKS for true C's. 


That's exactly the type of thinking that leads to drafting lottery picks like Felton Spenser, Luc Longley, Patrick O'Bryant, DeSagana Diop, Vitaly Potapenko, Samaki Walker, Cherokee Parks, Adonal Foyle, Todd Fuller, Eric Montross, Stacy King, Kwame Brown, Sharone Wright, Shawn Bradley, Yinka Dare, Aleksandar Radojevic, Darko Milicic and Michael Olowokandi.

Does any position bust more frequently than Centers?


I can't believe you posted that list and it didn't include Paul Grant.

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RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 1/21/2009 11:40:28 AM   
djskillz


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Status: offline 		No, but that also means that you have to get one when there's a real possibility.  I'd be shocked if Thabeet isn't a pretty decent defensive C, which is really what this team needs on the inside anyway.

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Post #: 34
RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 1/21/2009 11:49:05 AM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elliot

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

And DL, again, I agree on Thabeet, and I've mentioned the same worry many times.  But this draft SUCKS for true C's. 


That's exactly the type of thinking that leads to drafting lottery picks like Felton Spenser, Luc Longley, Patrick O'Bryant, DeSagana Diop, Vitaly Potapenko, Samaki Walker, Cherokee Parks, Adonal Foyle, Todd Fuller, Eric Montross, Stacy King, Kwame Brown, Sharone Wright, Shawn Bradley, Yinka Dare, Aleksandar Radojevic, Darko Milicic and Michael Olowokandi.

Does any position bust more frequently than Centers?


I can't believe you posted that list and it didn't include Paul Grant.


I only picked guys who were taken in the lottery. Grant went #20, so he escaped.
Post #: 35
RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 1/21/2009 11:53:41 AM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

No, but that also means that you have to get one when there's a real possibility.  I'd be shocked if Thabeet isn't a pretty decent defensive C, which is really what this team needs on the inside anyway.


I'm not so sure. IMO, his weaknesses way outweigh his strengths:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Hasheem-Thabeet-1061/

On the defensive end, despite his blocks per 40 minutes pace adjusted going down in each of his three seasons at UConn, it's hard to argue that he's improving on this end, as it's also important to mention how his fouls per 40 minutes pace adjusted have also gone down. Also, in actually analyzing the tape, Thabeet's awareness and hand-eye coordination definitely appear improved with his shot-blocking, both in man and help situations, however his reaction speed is still lacking at times, which isn't so much an issue against most college opponents, where his length and size allow him to recover.

In man-to-man defense, Thabeet still has some major problems, however, specifically on the perimeter, where his high center of gravity and lack of balance disallow him from getting into proper defensive stance and moving laterally, leaving him highly vulnerable to face-up players. His length allows him to recover from behind on drives at times, but this won't be as reliable of a bail out for him at the next level. In the post, Thabeet can get pushed back with his lack of leverage, however he usually plays fairly smart these days, relying on his length and size and forcing opponents to shoot over him. He struggles with quick lateral movements, though.

Strengths:

• Incredible Size
• True center
• Frame
• Wingspan
• Mobility
• Ability to run floor
• Explosiveness off feet
• Gets out in transition
• Shoots a high percentage
• Solid free throw shooter
• Ability to draw fouls
• Confidence improved
• Game-changing presence defensively
• Excellent shot-blocker
• Only playing basketball for few years
• Upside

Weaknesses:

• Extremely limited offensively
• Limited footwork/Mechanical
• Poor hands
• Core strength/balance
• Passing out of the post
• Feel for game
• Man to man defense
• Gets backed down
• Lateral quickness defensively
• Poor rebounder
• Activity level
• Effort wavers
• Work ethic?
• True age?
• Track record of African players
Post #: 36
RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 1/21/2009 11:59:23 AM   
Guest
 IMO, playing alongside Jeff Adrien masks some of Thabeet's weaknesses.  I've watched plenty of UConn games, and I am not impressed at all by Thabeet, and I seriously question how much better he can get.

He does have a great personal story though and it's hard not to pull for the kid.
  Post #: 37
RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 1/21/2009 4:46:28 PM   
DavidAOlson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete M.

By the way, I love Gerald Henderson as a player--I think he's going to be very similar to Andre Iguodala in the NBA. But if Randy Foye turns into your above-average starting SG, where does Gerald Henderson fit? I think with his athleticism, he could play a little 3 at the next level, but I don't think that's ideal. 


Oh, I'd agree.  But if you have a 5 of Warren/Foye/Wallace/Al/Thabeet, then you still need rotational guys.  I think Henderson could be that guy.


What's a rotational guy?

Just trying to get your terminology straight so that I can interpret your comments.

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RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 1/21/2009 4:57:18 PM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete C

IMO, playing alongside Jeff Adrien masks some of Thabeet's weaknesses.  I've watched plenty of UConn games, and I am not impressed at all by Thabeet, and I seriously question how much better he can get.

He does have a great personal story though and it's hard not to pull for the kid.


I'm torn on him, and I definitely don't believe some of the hype on him.  But I do think he can be a good defensive C in the Adonal Foyle mold.  To me, that's a good complement to Al or Love, whichever one the Wolves actually decide to keep longterm.

David, by rotational guy, I mean a guy who can start if needed, but is more of a 6-8th man on a good team.  I see Henderson as being at LEAST that, with a chance to be a whole lot more with his bball IQ, defensive ability, and freakish athleticism.

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"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
Post #: 39
RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 1/21/2009 5:04:32 PM   
Pete M.


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Status: offline 		See, I think Gerald will be even better than that, and his growth might be stunted by being that 6th-8th man.
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RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 1/21/2009 5:10:47 PM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete M.

See, I think Gerald will be even better than that, and his growth might be stunted by being that 6th-8th man.


Definitely possible.  But really, if he is the stud that we both know he could become, then I don't have a lot of doubt that he'll pass up Foye in that scenario.  And it never hurts to have "extra" good players.  Same goes for Al/Love IF the Wolves can get a good center finally.

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"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 3/22/2009 10:11:44 PM   
Steve Lentz


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Status: offline 		I know how foolish it is to form an opinion after 2 tournament games but Harden wouldn't be a top 5 draft choice to me.

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RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 3/22/2009 10:13:26 PM   
Steve Lentz


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Status: offline 		Griffin has to be the number 1 pick. He's a monster. I don't think the Sooners are deep enough to play for the championship though.

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RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 3/22/2009 10:17:52 PM   
So.Mn.Fan


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Status: offline 		Was asking that earlier but deleted it, Steve.
I know his stock has been up and down this season, but I agree, what a beast.
Who do you guys think he will compare to at the NBA level?
Just a preliminary opinion. I've heard people say he'll disappear, I sure don't think so.
Every level needs a bull like that kid is.
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RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 3/22/2009 10:35:01 PM   
Steve Lentz


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Status: offline 		Hey Scott. I see him as a Boozer type with even a higher ceiling. He needs to develop his outside shooting but he is so physical and so confident.

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RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 3/22/2009 10:42:03 PM   
So.Mn.Fan


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Status: offline 		Thanks Steve.
Thats probably a pretty good comparison.
A lot of teams sure have that need.
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RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 3/23/2009 12:32:55 AM   
djskillz


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Status: offline 		I see him as an Amare type, personally.  I think he'll be an aggressive force on offense, but I'm not sure he'll add a lot else in an all-around game.  Not entirely sure yet, though.

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"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 3/23/2009 10:57:53 PM   
Steve Lentz


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Status: offline 		I want somebody to tell me who the next five choices are??  Rubio if he enters but then what. I'm down on Harden. Thabeet I'm really unsure about? Where are the studs?  I hope Turner declares.

< Message edited by Steve Lentz -- 3/23/2009 11:42:42 PM >

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RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 3/24/2009 9:02:34 AM   
djskillz


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Status: offline 		It really depends on who enters. 

I like both Douglas and Henderson the most as wing players.  And I'll continue to beat the drum for Willie Warren at PG.  I think longterm he's going to be very, very good.

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RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 3/24/2009 9:32:13 AM   
DavidAOlson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

It really depends on who enters. 

I like both Douglas and Henderson the most as wing players.  And I'll continue to beat the drum for Willie Warren at PG.  I think longterm he's going to be very, very good.


Which Douglas? I don't see one on nbadraft.net until the second round (Toney, at Florida State).

< Message edited by DavidAOlson -- 3/24/2009 9:34:04 AM >

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