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RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 6/30/2009 10:57:56 AM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

We don't want to see Rubio play just for four years and then, like Shaq, go to LA to play for the Lakers.

Once Rubio signs a contract the Wolves have him locked up for a minimum of 6 years before he can be an unrestricted FA.

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Post #: 1326

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 6/30/2009 11:00:14 AM

Brad Norman

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

RealGM:

RANDY FOYE and MIKE MILLER have become the most sought after players in the NBA.

Executives across the league are flooding Timberwolves president David Kahn's office with calls offering trades for RANDY FOYE and MIKE MILLER.

I substituted what the Wolves gave up to obtain Rubio to illustrate how insanely good that trade was.

The front office folks for the Wizards were probably kicking themselves when they saw that Rubio was available with the fifth pick. It was a calculated risk by Kahn that worked out beautifully. There are a lot of possible scenarios regarding Rubio, but it's hard to see any of them working out poorly for the Wolves.

Post #: 1327

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 6/30/2009 11:04:02 AM

Brad Norman

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

We don't want to see Rubio play just for four years and then, like Shaq, go to LA to play for the Lakers.

Once Rubio signs a contract the Wolves have him locked up for a minimum of 6 years before he can be an unrestricted FA.

Plus he would have to take less money to sign with another team (unless it was a sign and trade). That team would also need to have some considerable cap space (again, barring a sign and trade). The last CBA gave teams a lot better chance of keeping their own free agents (which was after Shaq left Orlando, of course).

Post #: 1328

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 6/30/2009 3:13:41 PM

Bruce Johnson

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That's good to hear. Nevertheless, I hope that Kahn continues to butter up Rubios agent like he did on draft night. I had never heard anyone anywhere speak so glowingly of an agent before.

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Post #: 1329

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 6/30/2009 4:47:00 PM

kgdabom

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Well no word out of Spain on a buyout yet. Considering the Buyout goes up to 8 million US Dollars if it isn't bought out before July 1st it now looks to be up to the courts ruling favorably for Rubio or we are guaranteed not to get him for two more years. Also considering that the Spanish IRS has a vested interest in Rubio now I find it doubtful that the courts will rule in Rubio's favor.

Post #: 1330

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 6/30/2009 4:53:08 PM

TJSweens

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The $8 million was thrown out by Rubio's team a while back. They were bluffing. The truth is that they need whatever they can get from a Rubio buyout to keep the franchise afloat. It will actually be a more expensive proposition for them to keep Rubio and pay him. I am betting Ricky ultimately could buy out for about half of what his team is asking.

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RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 6/30/2009 5:02:13 PM

Jim Frenette

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I also heard before the draft that they were close to getting the buyout down to $3M. That is still high for someone that will only make $97,000 this year

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Fargo

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RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 6/30/2009 6:08:51 PM

Ryan Buckingham

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

I also heard before the draft that they were close to getting the buyout down to $3M. That is still high for someone that will only make $97,000 this year

That is the part that I don't get either!

"Stay here and play and we'll pay you about $200,000 for 2 years, but if you leave early, you owe us $6.6 million."

What kind of bozo advised Rubio to sign that contract? Did he sign that when he was 14? I doubt it. They had to be planning on extorting the money from the USA for him since there is no chance he would have that kind of money.

Folks here are starting to see the logic Kahn had when he drafted Flynn at 6. I got it right away. No need to worry. Oh and unless things have changed, we hold his NBA rights period. It is not like in other sports where you only have until the next draft (like baseball). Remember we drafted Zeljko Rebraca in 1995 (?) in the second round, and I think we traded his rights in around 2000 (Bobby Jackson trade I think).

Avoid anyone who tried to create a "panic" on Rubio. The guy making the decision, Kahn, knows who holds all the cards (Kahn) in this situation and Kahn, UNLIKE MCHALE, does not speak first then think. Kahn is very articulate. Kevin was far too honest.

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Post #: 1333

RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 6/30/2009 7:48:32 PM

ruffenach

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Jerde

I said it earlier, but the only way I trade Rubio is for an all-star. Not just any one, but a young center (Howard is the only one that comes to mind in which I would be interested). Rubio is all about the untapped potential at this point, so if someone wants to make a no-brainer offer, we should take it. Barring that, if his agent let him stew in Europe for a few years; do you think Rubio might want to dump his agent if he has failed to get into the NBA by that time?

OK, budding conspiracy theorists. Anyone think that Kahn's experience working as a lawyer for the leagues (NBA & NHL) on player issues might give him some insight into just how much leverage an agent might (not!) have. For example, if he has Stern's ear/favor, do you think Rubio's agent will be able to force much of anything on the Wolves?

FWIW, I think Rubio WILL play for the Wolves, but it might not be for 1-2 years. The only way that he should not is if we get that stellar offer.

Let me throw my 2 cents in. The fact that Kahn worked for the league offices will not provide him with any assstance in this case. Stern will do nothing to help him.
As a lawyer, Kahn probably has received a copy of the buy out agreement before the draft. He knows if the payoff is in US dollars, Euros or in Spanish currency. Depending on the exchange rate, and the currency, the money owed to the team may be significantly different then what is reported in the media. Kahn may have access to a Spanish law firm and knowes if a contract singned with somebody below 18 is enforceable. The contract with his parents maybe enforceable, but if his parents have no money, it maybe of little value to the team, especially if they can file bankruptcy in Spain. Assuming, that this is resolved in favor of the team, can they afford to pay Rubio the sum of money thay they are contractually obligated to pay him? If Rubio goes back to the team and they breach, this may release Rubio of any further obligations to the team. Without having the contract resolved prior to the draft, his agent risked that Rubio would fall significantly in the draft. The Knicks can't pay Rubio one more dime then we can. If he plays in New York, Rubio might earn more money from indorsements. But this is not guaranteed either. Just ask Starberry. To date, all I have read is a bunch of media hype most likely spooned fed to the media by his agent's firm. If you can stand the media preasures, I suspect that Kahn's agent is going to run out of ploys and have to live with the fact that Kahn, not him, is in the drivers seat. Kahn holds his NBA rights and if he wants to play in the States, all moves go throuh Minnesota. As long as Kahn has the backing of Taylor, it doesn't matter what they write in New York, most Minnesotans get their new locally and who care what they believe in NY. It would be nice to read a well researched article rather than the media hype that is normally fed by the agents and leaked to the media.

Post #: 1334

RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 6/30/2009 8:05:21 PM

kgdabom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Jerde

I said it earlier, but the only way I trade Rubio is for an all-star. Not just any one, but a young center (Howard is the only one that comes to mind in which I would be interested). Rubio is all about the untapped potential at this point, so if someone wants to make a no-brainer offer, we should take it. Barring that, if his agent let him stew in Europe for a few years; do you think Rubio might want to dump his agent if he has failed to get into the NBA by that time?

OK, budding conspiracy theorists. Anyone think that Kahn's experience working as a lawyer for the leagues (NBA & NHL) on player issues might give him some insight into just how much leverage an agent might (not!) have. For example, if he has Stern's ear/favor, do you think Rubio's agent will be able to force much of anything on the Wolves?

FWIW, I think Rubio WILL play for the Wolves, but it might not be for 1-2 years. The only way that he should not is if we get that stellar offer.

Let me throw my 2 cents in. The fact that Kahn worked for the league offices will not provide him with any assstance in this case. Stern will do nothing to help him.
As a lawyer, Kahn probably has received a copy of the buy out agreement before the draft. He knows if the payoff is in US dollars, Euros or in Spanish currency. Depending on the exchange rate, and the currency, the money owed to the team may be significantly different then what is reported in the media. Kahn may have access to a Spanish law firm and knowes if a contract singned with somebody below 18 is enforceable. The contract with his parents maybe enforceable, but if his parents have no money, it maybe of little value to the team, especially if they can file bankruptcy in Spain. Assuming, that this is resolved in favor of the team, can they afford to pay Rubio the sum of money thay they are contractually obligated to pay him? If Rubio goes back to the team and they breach, this may release Rubio of any further obligations to the team. Without having the contract resolved prior to the draft, his agent risked that Rubio would fall significantly in the draft. The Knicks can't pay Rubio one more dime then we can. If he plays in New York, Rubio might earn more money from indorsements. But this is not guaranteed either. Just ask Starberry. To date, all I have read is a bunch of media hype most likely spooned fed to the media by his agent's firm. If you can stand the media preasures, I suspect that Kahn's agent is going to run out of ploys and have to live with the fact that Kahn, not him, is in the drivers seat. Kahn holds his NBA rights and if he wants to play in the States, all moves go throuh Minnesota. As long as Kahn has the backing of Taylor, it doesn't matter what they write in New York, most Minnesotans get their new locally and who care what they believe in NY. It would be nice to read a well researched article rather than the media hype that is normally fed by the agents and leaked to the media.

You brought up a couple interesting angles. The team is in serious financial difficulty. If they fold does that release Rubio or is he under contract with the league and his rights go to whatever team picks him up. If his parents are responsible for the buyout maybe they could just go bankrupt. Interesting points indeed.

Post #: 1335

RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 6/30/2009 8:10:09 PM

Bruce Johnson

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The sooner that Rubio plays, the sooner that he can get through the rookie contract, which is when he makes the big money. I can't believe that that is lost on the Rubio family. I'm guessing that there's a 90% chance that he plays for our team this season.

Would anybody here care to offer their own figure for the percent chance he will play this season?

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 1336

RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 6/30/2009 9:35:14 PM

Steve Lentz

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I think there is a better than 50% chance Rubio and Flynn both don't play for the Wolves this year.

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Post #: 1337

RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/1/2009 12:34:54 AM

kgdabom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

I think there is a better than 50% chance Rubio and Flynn both don't play for the Wolves this year.

50% chance that both of them don't play for the Wolves this year? What you talkin bout Willis? Sure Rubio won't be playing for us but why on earth will Flynn not play for us this year? or do you meant that only one or the other isn't playing for us. I put the chances of Rubio not playing for us this year at over 50%.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 7/1/2009 12:36:40 AM >

Post #: 1338

RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/1/2009 8:48:23 AM

Easy E

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

I think there is a better than 50% chance Rubio and Flynn both don't play for the Wolves this year.

Yeah, the Flynn part is confusing.

There is a much better than 50% chacne Rubio doesn't suit up this year, IMO. It's about 50% that he even suits up next year, IMO.

Post #: 1339

RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/1/2009 9:35:27 AM

Steve Lentz

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I meant that we don't have both of them on the team.

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RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/1/2009 9:43:27 AM

Karl Juhnke

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If you're talking about the odds that one or the other will not be here, I'd put the odds at higher than 50%.

Rubio is 20% chance at best to be here.

Flynn's odds are tied to Rubio.  If Rubio isn't here, Flynn is 100%. If Rubio's here, there's a small chance, say 20% they decide to move Flynn; even though they seem really high on him, someone could make a great offer, and the Wolves decide the 'two point guard' experiment probably isn't necessary...or it was all talk in the first place.

That comes out to 16% they are both here. Yeah, I'm going with 16%.

It goes like this.

Rubio and Flynn 16%
Flynn alone       80%
Rubio alone         4%

< Message edited by Karl Juhnke -- 7/1/2009 9:45:58 AM >

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RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/1/2009 10:55:30 AM

Jeff Jesser

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

I meant that we don't have both of them on the team.

You think we may trade Flynn?

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RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/1/2009 7:00:00 PM

Steve Lentz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

I meant that we don't have both of them on the team.

You think we may trade Flynn?

I don't know if they're correct but numerous reports have Rubio's agent and family not happy about us signing another pg. I understand but hate that attitude. It could become a major sticking point in determining if Rubio plays here this year.

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" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"

Post #: 1343

RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/1/2009 9:54:20 PM

Bruce Johnson

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Am I alone in thinking that Rubio will play here this upcoming season? The buyout may likely be reduced to 3 million and it can be paid over a period of several years is what I heard. Why wouldn't he want to come to the NBA right away?

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 1344

RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/1/2009 11:05:02 PM

Brad Norman

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Am I alone in thinking that Rubio will play here this upcoming season? The buyout may likely be reduced to 3 million and it can be paid over a period of several years is what I heard. Why wouldn't he want to come to the NBA right away?

If the buyout's not the issue, then there may be at least two other factors: (1) Rubio doesn't want to compete against Flynn for minutes, and (2) Rubio wants to play in a larger market. The agent would probably be the one pushing these issues.

Of course, Kahn is holding all the cards here. He can play hardball; I doubt Rubio will sign with a different European team. If Rubio wants to play in the NBA (and he does), the road goes through MN.

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RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/2/2009 3:41:38 AM

Matt Lang

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Hypothetical: let's imagine for a minute that Rubio tells Kahn that the buyout's going through and that he wants to play in the NBA this season but really, really doesn't want to play for the Wolves. So Kahn decides it's time to trade him. In this case, who/what would we be interested in trading for? With Flynn on board, we wouldn't really need to trade for a PG, so SG might be our prime target? Gotta be somebody pretty good since Rubio's stock seems to be high right now... maybe Roy? But wouldn't that feel weird to trade Foye for the 5th pick to get Rubio and to then trade him for Roy? Like it's a whole lot of effort to erase an earlier mistake.

Would you trade him for another PG like Rondo? Who else?

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RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/2/2009 5:39:24 AM

Elliot

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TrueHoop has an article suggesting the Rubio might threaten to sit out a year and re-enter the draft.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-42-5/Ricky-Rubio-s-Nuclear-Option.html

Ridiculous. I still haven't seen anything credible that indicates what Rubio's real issues are. These various media outlets seem to be pressing to create a stand-off betwen Rubio and Kahn and there doesn't really seem to be anything of substance. The article closes by noting the potential irony of having Rubio sit out a year only to be drafted (again) by the Wolves. The far more likely outcome of that scenario would be some combination of the following:

Rubio's value goes south because no one will have seen him play for a year and NBA fans won't have the appetite for hyping him again;
Rubio's value goes down because people start to question his willingness to compete and desire to play in the NBA. He'll be just another whiney European;
Rubio fires Dan Fegan as his agent for screwing up his lifelong dream of playing in the NBA and has to start negotiations from scratch;
Rubio enrolls in a US college so he can continue to play (laughable, I know, but nonetheless suggested in the ESPN article), but has a mediocre showing as he adjusts to a different game in a shortened season;
Rubio re-enters the draft, but now has to compete in arguably a much stronger draft and falls out of the top 10 picks;
Rubio still has his buyout issues to worry about but hasn't been compensated for a year;
Rubio arrives in MN and receives a luke-warm embrace as most of the Wolves fans have fallen under the spell of charismatic Jonny Flynn

If Rubio's situation isn't resolved before the Vegas League, he might really be screwing himself. If Flynn takes that league by storm, Rubio's really got problems.

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While you're busy making other plans

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Post #: 1347

RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/2/2009 8:46:30 AM

Easy E

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quote:

The far more likely outcome of that scenario would be some combination of the following:

Rubio is 18 years old. Teams that do not hold his rights are not going to be running away from him because he sits out a year to try to play with them. Glen Taylor is basically hated by the other owners, if there is one black sheep team, it's the Wolves.

They need to work with Rubio as much as possible. He could really screw them up if he decides he wants to play in the NBA but not with them. You think Stern will do anything to help the Wolves? Not a chance. If he's staring at playing 6 years for a franchise he thinks will suck versus a better market in a year at the age of 19 trying to prove himself, I can see him doing this. They need to try to convince him this is the place to be. Not play hardball. That will backfire, IMO.

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RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/2/2009 9:07:08 AM

Elliot

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

quote:

The far more likely outcome of that scenario would be some combination of the following:

Rubio is 18 years old. Teams that do not hold his rights are not going to be running away from him because he sits out a year to try to play with them. Glen Taylor is basically hated by the other owners, if there is one black sheep team, it's the Wolves.

They need to work with Rubio as much as possible. He could really screw them up if he decides he wants to play in the NBA but not with them. You think Stern will do anything to help the Wolves? Not a chance. If he's staring at playing 6 years for a franchise he thinks will suck versus a better market in a year at the age of 19 trying to prove himself, I can see him doing this. They need to try to convince him this is the place to be. Not play hardball. That will backfire, IMO.

Nobody said anything about playing hardball. Kahn has gone out of his way to kill them with kindness and be very accomodating. And I don't know what other owners' (or Stern's) opinion of Taylor has to do with anything. The rules are what they are. The only way Rubio sits out a year without getting paid is if he (and/or his agent) decide they absolutely refuse to play for the Timberwolves. They would effectively being the ones playing hardball.

But, if that's the case, and Rubio decides to sit out a year without pay, he will still be subject to the draft. He doesn't become a free agent and get to choose the team he plays for. So he will have to measure his desire to play somewhere other than Minnesota (the devil he doesn't know) against the very real possibility that he gets drafted by another undesireable team, loses a year of compensation, still has to pay the buyout, would likely get drafted in a worse position, etc.

The chances of it happening are virtually nil. All the more reason why it was a silly proposition from TrueHoops and both parties need to be realistic and work together to get something done.

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Life is just what happens to you,
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RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/2/2009 9:14:59 AM

Easy E

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I wasn't bashing the Wolves. I am saying that sitting out a year to reenter the draft is, in fact, a possibility for Rubio, and one that the Wolves should work hard (as it appears they are doing) to make sure it doesn't become a reality.

I think you have it much more negative for Rubio than it would be. If he sits out one year, all he is, is 19. That isn't going to piss too many other teams off, especially since the alternative is getting locked into Glen Taylor for 6 years. Other teams won't be upset about that in the slightest. He will have also signaled his intent to have clear control over where he goes, which means that the team that will risk a second draft on him will want to make sure he wants to play there.. i.e. he can dictate to some extent where he wants to go.

Is it a jerk move, like John Elway or Kobe Bryant pulled off? Yes. Is it way out of the realm of possibility? I don't think so. That's why Kahn is doing it the right way, even though most fans reactions, and a lot of team ownership, when this comes up is "screw him, he can't do this to us, we'll make his life hell."

Post #: 1350