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RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good

 
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RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/3/2009 8:27:44 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryan Taylor

Doesn't anyone think that the reports of his playing out his final two years in Spain might just be so he does not have to pay the buy out?

He earn's his $97,000 per year and he does not have to resign with them. He frees himself from any buy out situation and forces the team to reconsider the buy out amount as they are in desperate need for $'s right now.

Having Ricky play out his contract does little for them in regards to helping their need for dollars.

Just a thought.



Ryan "Son of Don" Taylor


Yes, exactly!  His team in Spain is going bankrupt and they are counting on this buyout as a bailout to their financial woes.  They are negotiating, and this tact by Rubio and his agent is just posturing- no doubt!

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"You're betraying your whole life if you don't say what you think--and you don't say it honestly and bluntly." --Charles Krauthammer
Post #: 1376
RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/5/2009 7:32:12 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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Who will be a better pro: Rubio or Flynn?

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"You're betraying your whole life if you don't say what you think--and you don't say it honestly and bluntly." --Charles Krauthammer
Post #: 1377
RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/6/2009 8:23:16 AM   
Ryan Taylor


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My belief is that for the first couple of years Flynn might very well be but that within a few years Rubio will be not only more exciting but the better player overall.

He is taller, has more of an upside and has already proved he could compete against NBA players such as Kobe and Paul, who have nothing but glowing things to say about him, as well as having played pro ball in Europe since he was 14 (that's unreal in any country).

But then, I'm not really all that great of a BB mind.




Ryan "Son of Don" Taylor
Post #: 1378
RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/6/2009 9:45:38 AM   
TJSweens


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I think that is a fair assessment Ryan. At 18 years old Rubio could possible grow another inch and will likely add about 25lbs to his frame in the next couple of years. That would leave him big enough to defend most 2G. His upside is definitely higher than Flynn's, although I really like Johnny Flynn. Here is how I see things shaping up.

Rubio reaches a buyout agreement for this year. In that case the Wolves sign him and start the great Rubio / Flynn backcourt experiment, which I think has a good chance to work over the long run.

Rubio plays another year in Spain. In that case I would expect Kahn will explore trade options after next year's draft lottery and not before. Once the owners of the top lottery picks are determined it will be easier to make a deal with one of those teams. He won't deal Rubio unless he can get back into position to take an elite prospect. Without an offer of that caliber he will stay put and hope Ricky works out a buy out. Kahn has said he will wait 2 years and I believe he is ready to do just that.

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Post #: 1379
RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/6/2009 9:48:37 AM   
Easy E

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad Norman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

You guys are right, no one will want him. He's so screwed.

You always use hyperbole, exaggeration, overstatement, and misrepresentation after you lose an argument.


That's not true he often uses all of that while in the process of losing an argument as well.


I also use it when I run into people who are set in their beliefs.

People want to believe that Rubio WILL be here and the his only real choice is to play for us.

I think that is much less likely than the sentiment here. It doesn't mean I don't want him, just the opposite. But it is not like he is going to fall out of the lottery if he decided that he didn't want to play here and sat for one year. And in fact, if he ever gets to that mindset, while the fan's preference is "screw him, make him sit", what in fact will more likely happen is Kahn deals him. Elway did it, Eli Manning did it, Kobe Bryant did it, Steve Francis did it, etc. Is it popular with fans? No. Does it mean you will suck forever? No.
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RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/6/2009 9:51:52 AM   
Easy E

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Rubio plays another year in Spain. In that case I would expect Kahn will explore trade options after next year's draft lottery and not before. Once the owners of the top lottery picks are determined it will be easier to make a deal with one of those teams. He won't deal Rubio unless he can get back into position to take an elite prospect. Without an offer of that caliber he will stay put and hope Ricky works out a buy out. Kahn has said he will wait 2 years and I believe he is ready to do just that.


This is what I think is likely. I also think that during the course of that time span, Kahn will sit down and have an honest and frank conversation with Rubio about his overall desire to play here. If Rubio wants to be here, Kahn will wait and Rubio will eventually play here. If he doesn't, Kahn will deal him. They aren't, IMO, going to try to make him play here if he doesn't want to be here.

And I think it's possible he doesn't want to be here.
Post #: 1381
RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/6/2009 9:53:32 AM   
TJSweens


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I think in the end it means Kahn knows he has a prized asset and unlike his predecessor, he is smart enough to know that he doesn't need to rush out and trade it. He knows its value on the market and won't trade at a loss.

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Post #: 1382
RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/6/2009 5:30:36 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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All this talk about a player who is so overrated.... meanwhile the LAKERS get Ron Artest for when the LAKERS battle the big boys.  Hopefully they can keep Odom.

This is going to be a great season with LA, Clev, and Bos.

Folks, go with your heritage.... the LAKERS!
Post #: 1383
RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/6/2009 8:12:05 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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Hey Bill, if the Vikings move to LA, will you still root for them or will you root for the Packers? 

Personally, I'll be confused, sad, and mad.

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Post #: 1384
RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/7/2009 11:23:52 AM   
wrh

 

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I have enjoyed the discussion here about the draft.

One perspective those of you who think Rubio may sit out a year don't seem to be weighing as much as I think it deserves, is here is a guy that has probably been playing basketball most of his whole life; probably has been the center of his life for the last 10 years; the notion of sitting out and not playing competatively for a year to possibly improve his financial situation or team situation would turn his life upside down.

I can believe he may force a trade. I can believe he may stay in Europe for a couple of years. I can not believe he will sit inactive for a year.
Post #: 1385
RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/7/2009 11:42:04 AM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wrh

I have enjoyed the discussion here about the draft.

One perspective those of you who think Rubio may sit out a year don't seem to be weighing as much as I think it deserves, is here is a guy that has probably been playing basketball most of his whole life; probably has been the center of his life for the last 10 years; the notion of sitting out and not playing competatively for a year to possibly improve his financial situation or team situation would turn his life upside down.

I can believe he may force a trade. I can believe he may stay in Europe for a couple of years. I can not believe he will sit inactive for a year.


If he was going to be a free agent by sitting out a year, I could see it. But he'd just go back into the draft. Then what? If he doesn't like who picks him, does he sit out ANOTHER year and try again?
Post #: 1386
RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/7/2009 11:45:08 AM   
Easy E

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: wrh

I have enjoyed the discussion here about the draft.

One perspective those of you who think Rubio may sit out a year don't seem to be weighing as much as I think it deserves, is here is a guy that has probably been playing basketball most of his whole life; probably has been the center of his life for the last 10 years; the notion of sitting out and not playing competatively for a year to possibly improve his financial situation or team situation would turn his life upside down.

I can believe he may force a trade. I can believe he may stay in Europe for a couple of years. I can not believe he will sit inactive for a year.


If he was going to be a free agent by sitting out a year, I could see it. But he'd just go back into the draft. Then what? If he doesn't like who picks him, does he sit out ANOTHER year and try again?


People have always thought sitting out a year is dumb. Player have done it though. And the only thing stupider than a player sitting out, is a team letting a player sit out.

The point isn't if he'll actually sit out. The point is, is the idea that he might sit out give him any leverage at all? I think it does. I don't think the Wolves are in a position to get in a pissing match with him over it. If he doesn't want to be here, they should deal him. They should do everything they can to make him want to be here, obviously.
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RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/7/2009 11:52:45 AM   
TJSweens


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After saying he will play out his contract with his current team I am hard pressed to believe Rubio is even entertaining the notion of sitting out a year. He comes back into a deeper draft than the one in which he just dropped to #5 because of his 2 contract buyout. He will wind up with the same 2 year buy out and an even lower salary slot to try to execute the buyout. It would be such a monumentally poor move on his part that I have no doubt his agent has advised him against it in the strongest possible terms.

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Post #: 1388
RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/7/2009 12:24:37 PM   
Easy E

 

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I do agree. I think that if he contemplates sitting out, it will be after he's played 2 years in Spain. At that point, everyone will know how good he is or isn't.

Again, the chances of him actually sitting out are low. The chances of him having the leverage on the Wolves to play with them or not, depending on his wishes are, IMO, fairly high.
Post #: 1389
RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/7/2009 3:49:18 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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Rubio will be receiving advice to sit out for one year from no one

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Post #: 1390
RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/7/2009 4:32:57 PM   
Easy E

 

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Jesus, this isn't a hard concept either. This is exactly what Kobe Bryant did to force a trade, btw. You don't go around holding press conferences saying you're sitting out. You go into the negotiating room and make it clear you want no part of that franchise. I'm not saying he will sit out, I'm saying a shitty franchise has to accomodate a player that could totally screw them over if he really wanted to. You tell them if they won't deal you, you will sit out, and the team has to take that seriously. If Rubio doesn't want to be here, the Wolves have to trade him. Period. There are NBA player considering playing in the European league. The Wolves do not have a strangle hold on him. They have to work with him. Really, they need to make him want to be here.
Post #: 1391
RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/7/2009 4:44:43 PM   
Elliot


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

Jesus, this isn't a hard concept either. This is exactly what Kobe Bryant did to force a trade, btw. You don't go around holding press conferences saying you're sitting out. You go into the negotiating room and make it clear you want no part of that franchise. I'm not saying he will sit out, I'm saying a shitty franchise has to accomodate a player that could totally screw them over if he really wanted to. You tell them if they won't deal you, you will sit out, and the team has to take that seriously. If Rubio doesn't want to be here, the Wolves have to trade him. Period. There are NBA player considering playing in the European league. The Wolves do not have a strangle hold on him. They have to work with him. Really, they need to make him want to be here.


All you write here is true.  But there is a big difference between the situation with Kobe and Rubio.  Kobe was a high school kid.  He had never been paid to play.  He could have gone to college and still improved his game (and his draft value).  That was his hammer.

Rubio has been playing at the highest level in Europe for several years.  There really isn't anywhere for him to go where he could hone his game and not get paid.  It's still something he could do.  I don't think anyone is arguing that he can't do it.  It's just a question of whether or not it makes sense.  For anyone.      

_____________________________

Life is just what happens to you,
While you're busy making other plans

~ John Lennon
Post #: 1392
RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/7/2009 4:51:36 PM   
Easy E

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elliot

All you write here is true.  But there is a big difference between the situation with Kobe and Rubio.  Kobe was a high school kid.  He had never been paid to play.  He could have gone to college and still improved his game (and his draft value).  That was his hammer.

Rubio has been playing at the highest level in Europe for several years.  There really isn't anywhere for him to go where he could hone his game and not get paid.  It's still something he could do.  I don't think anyone is arguing that he can't do it.  It's just a question of whether or not it makes sense.  For anyone.      


Rubio sitting out is mutual destruction for both parties. I'm not arguing that he will sit out either. I'm saying that if he doesn't want to be here, the Wolves will need to trade him. They don't have a big hammer on him either, IMO. They need to get something from this high profile pick or they will be perpetully in the tank. IMO, of course. Hopefully that's convincing this point guard prodigy that a highly unusual and unconcentional pairing of two point guards will work out really well. If he's not buying it, I'd deal him now while his value is pretty high.
Post #: 1393
RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/7/2009 5:12:58 PM   
David Levine


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But his contract with Joventut isn't going to just go away.

He could sit out the year and go into the next draft but I'm not sure where the money is going to come from for his buyout. Or he could play in Spain for 2 more years, sit out the 3rd and re-enter the draft at 21 and really hope he goes to a team he likes. Or he could sit out ANOTHER year and then become a UFA at 22.

So right now his only hammer is to sit out this year, figure out some way to pay off Joventut and go into next year's draft. If he is dead set on not being a Wolf, right now is a bad time to trade him - and the only way I would is either if I get blown away with an offer or he does threaten to somehow re-enter next year's draft. If his deal is to stay playing in Europe until we trade him, then I trade his rights at next year's draft.
Post #: 1394
RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/7/2009 5:15:26 PM   
Easy E

 

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He could just play out his contract and sign in Europe. Once he's free from the Jovenut contract, he could easily do that. Some NBA players have done it, and it's been brought up a few times by Kobe and LeBron.

All I am saying is the Wolves should not act like they have a hammer over him. He can **** them up at least as badly as the screw with him. Would be make less if he stays in the Euro league? Probably. Would he be poor? Hell no.
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RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/7/2009 5:20:11 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

He could just play out his contract and sign in Europe.


Sure. That also gives us years to work the best possible trade.

I just think that unless a team is offering a young SUPERSTAR, this would be the worst possible time to trade him, and the only way I would is if he's going to re-enter next year's draft.
Post #: 1396
RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/8/2009 8:14:46 AM   
Easy E

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

He could just play out his contract and sign in Europe.


Sure. That also gives us years to work the best possible trade.

I just think that unless a team is offering a young SUPERSTAR, this would be the worst possible time to trade him, and the only way I would is if he's going to re-enter next year's draft.


It gives us years as being a bottom feeder team with a rebuilding plan on hold.

Rubio is the prize for a crappy organization. He's the key to getting out of the toilet. The best way for that to happen is to get him here this year or next. The best way to screw themselves, IMO, is to wait 2-3 years figuring out that he doesn't want to be here, then trying to force him or take a great deal.

We aren't going to know, but I hope like heck that Kahn actually sits down with Ricky, face to face, and gets a crystal clear idea of what he wants to do. If it's to play here, great. If he wants no part of Minnesota, I hope he starts working on a trade asap, while his value is still high.
Post #: 1397
RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/8/2009 10:43:18 AM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

He could just play out his contract and sign in Europe.


Sure. That also gives us years to work the best possible trade.

I just think that unless a team is offering a young SUPERSTAR, this would be the worst possible time to trade him, and the only way I would is if he's going to re-enter next year's draft.


It gives us years as being a bottom feeder team with a rebuilding plan on hold.

Rubio is the prize for a crappy organization. He's the key to getting out of the toilet. The best way for that to happen is to get him here this year or next. The best way to screw themselves, IMO, is to wait 2-3 years figuring out that he doesn't want to be here, then trying to force him or take a great deal.

We aren't going to know, but I hope like heck that Kahn actually sits down with Ricky, face to face, and gets a crystal clear idea of what he wants to do. If it's to play here, great. If he wants no part of Minnesota, I hope he starts working on a trade asap, while his value is still high.


I'm not saying wait years. I just wouldn't trade him now. Unless he either figures a way out of his contract and plans to enter next year's draft or we get offered an absolute young superstar.

IMO, if he HAVE to trade him, we do it after the lottery next year when we actually know what the pieces are. Trade him now and its possible the main piece you get for him is a late lottery pick.
Post #: 1398
RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/8/2009 11:06:44 AM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

Jesus, this isn't a hard concept either. This is exactly what Kobe Bryant did to force a trade, btw. You don't go around holding press conferences saying you're sitting out. You go into the negotiating room and make it clear you want no part of that franchise. I'm not saying he will sit out, I'm saying a shitty franchise has to accomodate a player that could totally screw them over if he really wanted to. You tell them if they won't deal you, you will sit out, and the team has to take that seriously. If Rubio doesn't want to be here, the Wolves have to trade him. Period. There are NBA player considering playing in the European league. The Wolves do not have a strangle hold on him. They have to work with him. Really, they need to make him want to be here.


Easy E I could not disagree with you more. If a team has to trade every player that says they don't want to play there than the Clippers would have to trade every player they ever draft. Do you think that the Clippers are Blake Griffin's first choice of a team to play with? Every player theoretically has the ability to totally screw over any team that drafts them. Not every player gets drafted by exactly the team they most wish to play for. Every player drafted has the option of playing in Europe or sitting out a year. Rubio like almost every player in the draft wants to play in the NBA. If the Wolves sent a message to every player telling them if you don't want to play here we will accommodate you by trading you to a team of your choosing at a price that is agreeable to you and them we would never get a player.

Could Rubio screw us over? Of course he could. Why would he do that if it involves screwing himself over? That would take an unbelievable level of hatred for our organization and we have given him no reason for such hatred unless you believe that being a bad team in a cold state is reason for hatred.
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RE: Trade Rubio? Better be good - 7/8/2009 11:30:10 AM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad Norman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

You guys are right, no one will want him. He's so screwed.

You always use hyperbole, exaggeration, overstatement, and misrepresentation after you lose an argument.


That's not true he often uses all of that while in the process of losing an argument as well.


I also use it when I run into people who are set in their beliefs.

People want to believe that Rubio WILL be here and the his only real choice is to play for us.

I think that is much less likely than the sentiment here. It doesn't mean I don't want him, just the opposite. But it is not like he is going to fall out of the lottery if he decided that he didn't want to play here and sat for one year. And in fact, if he ever gets to that mindset, while the fan's preference is "screw him, make him sit", what in fact will more likely happen is Kahn deals him. Elway did it, Eli Manning did it, Kobe Bryant did it, Steve Francis did it, etc. Is it popular with fans? No. Does it mean you will suck forever? No.


If we could get a deal like the Chargers got for trading Manning I would go for that in a heartbeat. Rivers is a better QB IMO than Manning but he has had to deal with injuries and that could not be predicted. I forget exactly what else the Chargers got in that deal but it was a lot. The Chargers have had chances to win the Super Bowl but just blew them in the end.
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