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RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/7/2009 9:17:52 AM

TJSweens

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I like Harden a lot (more than most) and I agree that he would be a no brainer at #5. He will be a better player than the lamented O.J. Mayo, IMO. I think the Wolves need serious back court help as they don't have a starting caliber guard at the 1 or the 2 (no I don't consider Foye starting caliber). Guard play is the most important factor in making a playoff run, IMO.

I will disagree on Rubio. All the scouting reports say that there is a ton of substance behind the flash. Great court vision, great passer, great at breaking down defense 1 on 1 and a very good defender. He may not have the immediate impact of Harden, but will surpass him in the second and 3rd years. This is the player I want more than any other.

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Post #: 151

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/7/2009 10:49:09 AM

David Levine

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From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I like Harden a lot (more than most) and I agree that he would be a no brainer at #5. He will be a better player than the lamented O.J. Mayo, IMO. I think the Wolves need serious back court help as they don't have a starting caliber guard at the 1 or the 2 (no I don't consider Foye starting caliber). Guard play is the most important factor in making a playoff run, IMO.

I will disagree on Rubio. All the scouting reports say that there is a ton of substance behind the flash. Great court vision, great passer, great at breaking down defense 1 on 1 and a very good defender. He may not have the immediate impact of Harden, but will surpass him in the second and 3rd years. This is the player I want more than any other.

Complete agree on Rubio. He's going to be a stud in this league and he is going to make everyone he plays with better.

Harden too - provided he "measures well".

And on guard play. I think, by far, our biggest weakness is perimeter defense. We have nobody on the team (except maybe Brewer) that is even an average defender at the 1, 2 or 3. And I think that makes our bigs look worse because they not only have to guard their man, but they have to deal with a constant stream of littles that blow past their defender. Love is a solid position defender, and Jefferson has shown that he can be (and if we take a little of the offense off his back, I think he can be a decent defender). I'd still like a long athletic shotblocker, but I want that as the 3rd guy in our rotation - and the one who gets the fewest minutes of the 3 guys.

Post #: 152

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/7/2009 12:51:50 PM

So.Mn.Fan

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So glad to hear some people thinking Rubio is going to be a solid choice.
Thats where I'm at but was afraid to say it.
Theres more to his game than meets the eye in those videos.
He's got mad skills and great vision and seems stronger than you'd think.
All things you HAVE to have to be an NBAer.

Post #: 153

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/7/2009 12:58:07 PM

Guest

Both G's need to be upgraded, but I'd rather have an average PG, than an above average 2G.

Yes, the vision is the thing that I look for most in a PG.

Post #: 154

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/7/2009 5:30:07 PM

David Levine

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From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: So.Mn.Fan

So glad to hear some people thinking Rubio is going to be a solid choice.
Thats where I'm at but was afraid to say it.
Theres more to his game than meets the eye in those videos.
He's got mad skills and great vision and seems stronger than you'd think.
All things you HAVE to have to be an NBAer.

Strength I'm not worried about. He's an 18 year old kid. He'll get bigger, and he's far from the skinniest kid to enter the NBA.

His vision and awareness are really special.

Post #: 155

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/7/2009 11:26:03 PM

Steve Lentz

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Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: online

I still prefer Evans over Harden. More raw but I like his potential and his ability to matchup defensively better than Harden.

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Post #: 156

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/8/2009 12:46:00 AM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: So.Mn.Fan

So glad to hear some people thinking Rubio is going to be a solid choice.
Thats where I'm at but was afraid to say it.
Theres more to his game than meets the eye in those videos.
He's got mad skills and great vision and seems stronger than you'd think.
All things you HAVE to have to be an NBAer.

Strength I'm not worried about. He's an 18 year old kid. He'll get bigger, and he's far from the skinniest kid to enter the NBA.

His vision and awareness are really special.

***********************************
At his age, it's beyond special.
Off the top of your head, who is the last 18-19 year old that you would say had that kind of court vision?

Post #: 157

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/8/2009 12:48:54 AM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

I still prefer Evans over Harden. More raw but I like his potential and his ability to matchup defensively better than Harden.

***********************************
I agree but Harden is more nba-ready today than Evans, but Evans has serious (I'm talking serious) potential that may take a couple of years to fully develop. Maybe we'll see the comeback of the big PG.

Post #: 158

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/8/2009 8:37:11 AM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete C

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: So.Mn.Fan

So glad to hear some people thinking Rubio is going to be a solid choice.
Thats where I'm at but was afraid to say it.
Theres more to his game than meets the eye in those videos.
He's got mad skills and great vision and seems stronger than you'd think.
All things you HAVE to have to be an NBAer.

Strength I'm not worried about. He's an 18 year old kid. He'll get bigger, and he's far from the skinniest kid to enter the NBA.

His vision and awareness are really special.

***********************************
At his age, it's beyond special.
Off the top of your head, who is the last 18-19 year old that you would say had that kind of court vision?

Earvin Johnson

Post #: 159

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/8/2009 10:21:38 AM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete C

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

I still prefer Evans over Harden. More raw but I like his potential and his ability to matchup defensively better than Harden.

***********************************
I agree but Harden is more nba-ready today than Evans, but Evans has serious (I'm talking serious) potential that may take a couple of years to fully develop. Maybe we'll see the comeback of the big PG.

Our track record with "big potential" guys has not been good. Harden is NBA ready and is as athletic as Mayo. I will take him over any other SG in the draft and it's not even close, IMO.

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Post #: 160

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/8/2009 10:56:08 AM

David Levine

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Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete C

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: So.Mn.Fan

So glad to hear some people thinking Rubio is going to be a solid choice.
Thats where I'm at but was afraid to say it.
Theres more to his game than meets the eye in those videos.
He's got mad skills and great vision and seems stronger than you'd think.
All things you HAVE to have to be an NBAer.

Strength I'm not worried about. He's an 18 year old kid. He'll get bigger, and he's far from the skinniest kid to enter the NBA.

His vision and awareness are really special.

***********************************
At his age, it's beyond special.
Off the top of your head, who is the last 18-19 year old that you would say had that kind of court vision?

I'm trying to think of people that I actually saw play at that age. Maybe Jason Kidd as a freshman? I mean I can't think of too many 25 year olds that have that court vision.

Post #: 161

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/11/2009 12:30:35 AM

djskillz

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I'm with ya on Rubio, DL. He's actually the guy I like most in this draft, yes, even more than Griffin. I've said it before but I see Blake as basically a cross between Amare and Beasley, which is a damn good player, but I'm not sure he'll ever be a superstar (ie win meaningful games for his team). And of course Griffin really makes little sense for a team that has invested so much in 2 PF's already. I'm hoping they get Rubio.

I'm not completely sure what it is, but I'm just not a Harden fan at all. I don't think he'll be all that good at the next level. Doesn't have the overall talent OR desire IMO. I'm hoping the Wolves can get Rubio and/or a real big man or two. A guy like Henderson or Ellington would really help too.

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Post #: 162

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/11/2009 11:20:46 AM

Karl Juhnke

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You may all be right on Rubio, but i just don't trust him at this point. He has potential, but he also has equal potential to be a massive bust in the NBA. The only way I'd want him is if he slips seriously from where he's generally projected now, which is as high as #2 on some boards.

I'm even warming to the idea of Thabeet. Plus he seems like a nice levelheaded kid who will be a team player and put in the work to continually improve. He'd be a much better fit for the Wolves right now than an 18 year old point guard project. It's exhausting just thinking about that. Get ready for 3 more 20 win seasons. I'd rather get a point guard from elsewhere and have the 'project' be a big man.

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Post #: 163

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/11/2009 11:30:00 AM

Jim Frenette

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

You may all be right on Rubio, but i just don't trust him at this point. He has potential, but he also has equal potential to be a massive bust in the NBA. The only way I'd want him is if he slips seriously from where he's generally projected now, which is as high as #2 on some boards.

I'm even warming to the idea of Thabeet. Plus he seems like a nice levelheaded kid who will be a team player and put in the work to continually improve. He'd be a much better fit for the Wolves right now than an 18 year old point guard project. It's exhausting just thinking about that. Get ready for 3 more 20 win seasons. I'd rather get a point guard from elsewhere and have the 'project' be a big man.

That can be said of any player in the draft

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Post #: 164

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/11/2009 11:39:27 AM

Easy E

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Rubio is the one guy I want because it has the best chance of transforming the Wolves into a good team.

There are other guys that would be good players, but are they really going to turn the Wolves into a playoff team?

Post #: 165

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/11/2009 11:40:36 AM

Karl Juhnke

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quote:

That can be said of any player in the draft

I don't think so. Every player has potential to be a bust, sure. But equal potential to bust as star potential? No I don't think all players are the same in that regard. Some are much higher risk than others. I think Griffin for example is as sure a bet as you can have to be a successful NBA player. The only question is how high.

Rubio is much higher risk in my opinion. And not a direction the Wolves should go right now.

< Message edited by Karl Juhnke -- 5/11/2009 11:44:15 AM >

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Post #: 166

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/11/2009 11:53:37 AM

Jim Frenette

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Over the years, we see more busts in the top 5 with the big men then guards

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Post #: 167

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/11/2009 11:57:54 AM

David Levine

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I disagree. I think Thabeet has a much higher bust potential than Rubio. And I think he has very little star potential.

I also think Griffin has a ton to work on to be successful. He's probably going to measure under 6'8 with shoes, he plays no defense, has no post game and won't be bigger, stronger and quicker than everyone he plays against at the NBA level.

Post #: 168

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/11/2009 12:16:48 PM

Karl Juhnke

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Depends on what you mean by star potential. I think Thabeet could 'potentially' be a solid center for an NBA chamionship caliber team. 'Stars' don't all score 25 points a game.

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Post #: 169

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/11/2009 12:24:56 PM

TJSweens

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I've seen Thabeet get bitch slapped too many times by short, but strong post players. He is potentially another Olowokandi, IMO. I wouldn't consider using a top 10 pick on him.

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Post #: 170

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/11/2009 1:09:18 PM

djskillz

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Thabeet's got potential, but I still think Adonal Foyle "could" be a good comparison.

As for Griffin, yep, basically a shorter Amare is what I see out of him. Good, solid, aggressive player. But he won't help you win a lot of games IMO.

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Post #: 171

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/11/2009 2:38:52 PM

David Levine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I've seen Thabeet get bitch slapped too many times by short, but strong post players. He is potentially another Olowokandi, IMO. I wouldn't consider using a top 10 pick on him.

Yup. Thabeet does one thing really well - shot blocking help defense. He isn't a good individual defender because he's not strong and doesn't have great feet. He has no offensive game outside of the dunk and putback (but he's a good FT shooter). You can score at him by taking the ball directly into his chest and he gets beat up by shorter stronger guys and every team in the NBA has some of those. And he's got a really narrow build. He isn't going to ever get huge.

I think he has a chance, if he works really hard, to be a decent complimentary player. Probably a really nice 3rd big. But I don't take that guy with a Top 5 pick.

I can see an Adonyl Foyle comparison.

Post #: 172

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/11/2009 2:40:35 PM

David Levine

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I also think our perimeter defense is MUCH bigger concern than our post defense. We don't have 1 guy (outside of maybe Brewer) that is even NBA average at the 1, 2 or 3.

Love is a solid positional defender. Jefferson can be when he focuses and he's a decent and improving shotblocker, but both guys look way worse because they have to constantly pickup the wings that blow past our guys.

Post #: 173

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/11/2009 3:18:47 PM

Easy E

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I think the overall and individual defensive ability of all our players pretty well blows.

Jefferson was not good defensively at all this year, he got tore up often. Love seems like a hard worker, but he's not that good defensively either.

They can rebound, which is good. Defensively all the spots need help, front and backcourt. IMO.

Post #: 174

RE: 2009 NBA Draft - 5/11/2009 3:25:21 PM

David Levine

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Jefferson has shown signs - and had stretches - of very solid defensive play. But he lets the burden of offense take him away from it. A good coach and a gameplan where he gets help on offense and he could be a solid 2-way player (if he's willing to put in the effort).

And Love plays big guys very well. He has a very strong base and good lateral quickness. He's going to struggle against the really long, really athletic types, but he did a very nice job guarding guys like Tim Duncan.

Post #: 175