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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/5/2011 9:03:46 AM

David Jerde

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From: Prescott, AZ
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I have watched several of Rubio's games this year; while his shot hasn't been falling as much as one would like, his handle forces defenses to collapse. He regularly makes a great pass that leads to an easy basket; Love has a hard time getting his shot off, but if Rubio plays anything like in Europe, Kevin will have many more open looks at the rim. Rubio likes to share the ball, which is something that the Wolves lack; all too often, they seem intent on making sure they get their own shots. That mindset could go a long way toward making the offense more efficient. On defense, Rubio seems to gamble when crowding the passing lanes; I don't know whether this will translate into steals in the NBA or if the opponents will be too quick. He looks long and strong but may have to play somewhat more conservatively to be an effective defender for the Wolves.

Rubio was an integral talent in the success of the FCB team last year; I think he is a little bored with the European leagues and is interested in the greater challenges of the NBA. All else equal, I think that Rubio will make a big difference on the Wolves.

I don't think that Rambis is a good coach for the Wolves and, unfortunately, expect that he will be back for another year. Reading Love's comments in the paper today, he sounds OK with Rambis but is pretty clear that (at least several) players are not buying into the schemes. A more-or-less clandestine effort to torpedo the Ramboid threatens to put the Wolves through another disappointing season.

[/diatribe]

Post #: 101

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/5/2011 9:14:21 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 24252
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen

How'd that Martell Webster trade work out? Some here thought he'd be great

He's exactly who he's always been - a very good spot up shooter that gets himself into trouble if he tries to do too much more. He's still young, but after 7000 NBA minutes, its incredibly rare for a player to transform himself into something else. He's an awful lot like the guy Kahn had just drafted an hour or so earlier...

Its another case of Kahn outsmarting himself. He saw that Webster had a handful of games where he played over 30 minutes and produced very nice numbers, so he assumed that the cause/effect was "play Martell 30+ minutes and he'll give you THAT production".

Sadly, the much more obvious answer was "occasionally Webster would play really well and in those games the coach left him in for 30+ minutes".

It's interesting to observe the attitude of Twins fans and Wolves fans. Twins fans hate on their best player. Wolves fans love Love, and they think way too highly of any new acquisition or draftee.

Whether anybody wants to admit it or not, plenty of people were high on Darko. Same with Flynn. Oh no, we traded Mayo. I think Randolph may fall in that same category. Hope over reality. And Rubio, I've said enough.

In my less than expert opinion, I see two keepers and one maybe on this entire squad. Love and Ridnour, and hopefully Wes gets better. I do think Beasley is extremely talented, but the last time he learned anything was at KState. If we can't make him a more well rounded basketball player, why have him? Our negatives, and I mean that literally, crush the few positives. I admire the hell out of Love, mostly because of his ability to bring it every night, while playing on a shit team.

Obviously we have a coaching problem, and possibly a worse GM problem, but we still do not have enough good NBA players. How many of our starters would start on an average NBA team?

Any one that thinks that the European Pro League translates exactly to the NBA needs to step back and look at Jennings from Milwaukee....because it does not translate. You will not know what Rubio can bring until he is actually here. Your guess is as good as mine.....positively or negatively.

Same goes into any other player. Our best guess still is not as educated of a guess that GM's and coaches have....even if you don't like Kahn or Rambis. I joke and kid with Dustin about the Lakers vs the Wolves for fun and entertainment...it isn't suppose be personal. Now if you take my hope for someone to succeed as something other than that....well I call it the KG and Kirby effect. They had the intangibles of winners.

The majority of these guys have the talent....what separates them is their drive and mental part of their game. If it bothers you that I want Beasley, Flynn, etc. to succeed....pick another team to cheer for. We really don't need you on this side.

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Post #: 102

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/5/2011 9:33:50 AM

Steve Lentz

Posts: 35930
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: online

Spot on Phil about the difference in many players being more their drive and the mental part of the game. Players like Beasley and Randolph have most all of the physical skills but need to improve their drive and mental game.

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Post #: 103

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/5/2011 9:36:51 AM

Steve Lentz

Posts: 35930
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Jerde

I have watched several of Rubio's games this year; while his shot hasn't been falling as much as one would like, his handle forces defenses to collapse. He regularly makes a great pass that leads to an easy basket; Love has a hard time getting his shot off, but if Rubio plays anything like in Europe, Kevin will have many more open looks at the rim. Rubio likes to share the ball, which is something that the Wolves lack; all too often, they seem intent on making sure they get their own shots. That mindset could go a long way toward making the offense more efficient. On defense, Rubio seems to gamble when crowding the passing lanes; I don't know whether this will translate into steals in the NBA or if the opponents will be too quick. He looks long and strong but may have to play somewhat more conservatively to be an effective defender for the Wolves.

Rubio was an integral talent in the success of the FCB team last year; I think he is a little bored with the European leagues and is interested in the greater challenges of the NBA. All else equal, I think that Rubio will make a big difference on the Wolves.

I don't think that Rambis is a good coach for the Wolves and, unfortunately, expect that he will be back for another year. Reading Love's comments in the paper today, he sounds OK with Rambis but is pretty clear that (at least several) players are not buying into the schemes. A more-or-less clandestine effort to torpedo the Ramboid threatens to put the Wolves through another disappointing season.

[/diatribe]

I pretty much agree with this post. Rubio will certainly at the very least be a huge upgrade at the PG position for us and Ridnour would be good with the 2nd unit. Now If we can get Irving, I still go for it.

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Post #: 104

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/5/2011 9:40:02 AM

Jim Frenette

Posts: 15995
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Dundas
Status: offline

Since this year there isn't a consensus #1 pick, it will probably the year the Wolves hit the lottery

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Fargo

Post #: 105

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/5/2011 9:42:19 AM

Steve Lentz

Posts: 35930
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen

How'd that Martell Webster trade work out? Some here thought he'd be great

He's exactly who he's always been - a very good spot up shooter that gets himself into trouble if he tries to do too much more. He's still young, but after 7000 NBA minutes, its incredibly rare for a player to transform himself into something else. He's an awful lot like the guy Kahn had just drafted an hour or so earlier...

Its another case of Kahn outsmarting himself. He saw that Webster had a handful of games where he played over 30 minutes and produced very nice numbers, so he assumed that the cause/effect was "play Martell 30+ minutes and he'll give you THAT production".

Sadly, the much more obvious answer was "occasionally Webster would play really well and in those games the coach left him in for 30+ minutes".

It's interesting to observe the attitude of Twins fans and Wolves fans. Twins fans hate on their best player. Wolves fans love Love, and they think way too highly of any new acquisition or draftee.

Whether anybody wants to admit it or not, plenty of people were high on Darko. Same with Flynn. Oh no, we traded Mayo. I think Randolph may fall in that same category. Hope over reality. And Rubio, I've said enough.

In my less than expert opinion, I see two keepers and one maybe on this entire squad. Love and Ridnour, and hopefully Wes gets better. I do think Beasley is extremely talented, but the last time he learned anything was at KState. If we can't make him a more well rounded basketball player, why have him? Our negatives, and I mean that literally, crush the few positives. I admire the hell out of Love, mostly because of his ability to bring it every night, while playing on a shit team.

Obviously we have a coaching problem, and possibly a worse GM problem, but we still do not have enough good NBA players. How many of our starters would start on an average NBA team?

I don't know anybody on this board that was as high on Flynn as you were. I would agree though that we don't have enough talent on this team. IMO we have some players that would make a heck of a 2nd unit in Ridnour, Beasley, and Tolliver. It's too early for me to know about Wes or Randolph's true potential.

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Post #: 106

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/5/2011 10:53:03 AM

David Levine

Posts: 74710
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From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Any one that thinks that the European Pro League translates exactly to the NBA needs to step back and look at Jennings from Milwaukee....because it does not translate.

Brandon Jennings is not a good comparison to Rubio at all - and he's not in any way the "poster child" for how EuroLeague stats do or don't compare to NBA stats. Europe was a MASSIVE mistake for him. He's more of a "destitute-man's Iverson" than a real PG. He didn't get minutes in Europe because he was young, only wanted to shoot, and wasn't good at it. All 3 of those make him a horrible fit for Euroball.

He's still not a good NBA player. He had that 50 point game as a rookie and he's still living off that. He's a high usage, low efficiency gunner with a poor assist/turnover ratio and a sieve on defense. The Bucks score more points and give up fewer when Jennings is on the bench.

Post #: 107

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/5/2011 11:10:25 AM

Phil Riewer

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Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Any one that thinks that the European Pro League translates exactly to the NBA needs to step back and look at Jennings from Milwaukee....because it does not translate.

Brandon Jennings is not a good comparison to Rubio at all - and he's not in any way the "poster child" for how EuroLeague stats do or don't compare to NBA stats. Europe was a MASSIVE mistake for him. He's more of a "destitute-man's Iverson" than a real PG. He didn't get minutes in Europe because he was young, only wanted to shoot, and wasn't good at it. All 3 of those make him a horrible fit for Euroball.

He's still not a good NBA player. He had that 50 point game as a rookie and he's still living off that. He's a high usage, low efficiency gunner with a poor assist/turnover ratio and a sieve on defense. The Bucks score more points and give up fewer when Jennings is on the bench.

I never said Jennings was a star but by looking at his Euroleague stats could you see he could play in the NBA or would be a D League All-Star? You can't truly see that until you get these guys over here.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 4/5/2011 11:11:30 AM >

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Post #: 108

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/5/2011 12:33:20 PM

David Levine

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Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I never said Jennings was a star but by looking at his Euroleague stats could you see he could play in the NBA or would be a D League All-Star? You can't truly see that until you get these guys over here.

What you could see is that his game was totally ill-suited for EuroLeague. Rubio, on the other hand has a very European game (except he can't shoot). There are plenty of players that play well in Europe and then come here and play well. There are very few players that struggle in Europe (especially over a number of years) and then turn into good NBA players.

Post #: 109

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/5/2011 2:04:26 PM

Prescott

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quote:

Rubio will certainly at the very least be a huge upgrade at the PG position for us and Ridnour would be good with the 2nd unit.

I don't think it's certain that Rubio will even simply be a better NBA player than Ridnour, honestly. I mean, I sure hope he is, but I don't know that anyone is certain of that, much less be a huge upgrade.

And that's if he even comes here, which in itself isn't certain.

Post #: 110

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/5/2011 3:05:02 PM

TJSweens

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I was as stoked about drafting Rubio as anyone. I would be lying at this point if I said I wasn’t worried about his Euro League performance and his prospects for the NBA; especially his shooting. Two years ago I was sure he would at least be a core player on a good team. I have lowered my expectations this year.

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Post #: 111

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/5/2011 3:33:28 PM

David Levine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I was as stoked about drafting Rubio as anyone. I would be lying at this point if I said I wasn’t worried about his Euro League performance and his prospects for the NBA; especially his shooting. Two years ago I was sure he would at least be a core player on a good team. I have lowered my expectations this year.

This is where I am too.

The hope has to be that he's bored/unmotivated/misused with a situation where he's on a veteran team that doesn't play to his strengths. The concern is that he's not as good because he's in a better league (that is still steps behind the NBA).

Post #: 112

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/5/2011 5:58:14 PM

Steve Lentz

Posts: 35930
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prescott

quote:

Rubio will certainly at the very least be a huge upgrade at the PG position for us and Ridnour would be good with the 2nd unit.

I don't think it's certain that Rubio will even simply be a better NBA player than Ridnour, honestly. I mean, I sure hope he is, but I don't know that anyone is certain of that, much less be a huge upgrade.

And that's if he even comes here, which in itself isn't certain.

Probably could have worded it better. I believe Rubio and Ridnour is a huge upgrade over Flynn and Ridnour. That's why I said the PG position.
I too am very concerned if and when he comes to the NBA. Another reason I draft Irving if he's available.

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Post #: 113

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/6/2011 12:49:18 AM

Matt Lang

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I would attempt to trade him for a top 10 pick next Summer. Not sure any team would go for that, but I'd try. Or trade him to the Clips for our pick back. It just KILLS me to not have a pick next year :(

Post #: 114

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/6/2011 12:54:45 AM

pdiercks

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There may not be a concensus #1 but I'd still love to win the lottery and take the Duke PG Irving. Trade Rubio and whatever else to make an upgrade to the roster, maybe a competent center or SG would be nice. Not to mention breaking the draft jinx would be awesome.

Post #: 115

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/6/2011 10:18:55 AM

Jim Frenette

Posts: 15995
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Clev now is just 1 win behind the Wolves

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Fargo

Post #: 116

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/6/2011 10:45:52 AM

djskillz

Posts: 56861
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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pdiercks

There may not be a concensus #1 but I'd still love to win the lottery and take the Duke PG Irving. Trade Rubio and whatever else to make an upgrade to the roster, maybe a competent center or SG would be nice. Not to mention breaking the draft jinx would be awesome.

If he's in the draft, I'd trade any and all players/picks necessary to get him, outside of Love.

Definitely going to be tough to get anything for Rubio. The Knicks are the team that has coveted him most, but they pretty much have nothing left to give in terms of picks. I'm not sure another team would even give up a top 10 pick for him at this point.

< Message edited by djskillz -- 4/6/2011 10:49:04 AM >

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Post #: 117

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/6/2011 11:07:21 AM

Elliot

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From: North Highland Beach, NJ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

Clev now is just 1 win behind the Wolves

Cleveland has a relatively (compared to the Wolves) easy schedule remaining as well.

Cavs remaining
at Toronto
vs. Chicago
at Milwaukee
at Detroit
vs. Washington

Wolves remaining
vs. Phoenix
at Denver
at Phoenix
vs. Houston

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While you're busy making other plans

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Post #: 118

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/6/2011 5:03:49 PM

Steve Lentz

Posts: 35930
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: online

Irving to enter the draft.
This would be an excellent time to get the first pick.

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Post #: 119

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/6/2011 5:16:39 PM

SoMnFan

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Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

Clev now is just 1 win behind the Wolves

Becoming clearer now that this upcoming draft either has 1 great player (if we stay ahead of Cleveland) or none. (if we fall behind them)

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Post #: 120

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/6/2011 5:21:08 PM

Prescott

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Joined: 10/3/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pdiercks

There may not be a concensus #1 but I'd still love to win the lottery and take the Duke PG Irving. Trade Rubio and whatever else to make an upgrade to the roster, maybe a competent center or SG would be nice. Not to mention breaking the draft jinx would be awesome.

Wow. Can you imagine if this happened?

The best quanity/value draft the Wolves ever had, and Kahn manages to get absolutely nothing from it. If this happens, the Rubio/Flynn draft might go down as the worst in an unglorious Wolves history.

Post #: 121

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/6/2011 7:45:15 PM

DavidAOlson

Posts: 15072
Joined: 8/2/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

Clev now is just 1 win behind the Wolves

Becoming clearer now that this upcoming draft either has 1 great player (if we stay ahead of Cleveland) or none. (if we fall behind them)

Oh no. There still might be three great players in the draft. We'll know once the ping pong balls have been picked.

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Post #: 122

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/6/2011 8:18:05 PM

SoMnFan

Posts: 94902
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

Clev now is just 1 win behind the Wolves

Becoming clearer now that this upcoming draft either has 1 great player (if we stay ahead of Cleveland) or none. (if we fall behind them)

Oh no. There still might be three great players in the draft. We'll know once the ping pong balls have been picked.

So true.
Forgot that just because we "earn" the worst spot, that certainly won't mean we'll get to pick there.

Guess we'll have to wait until after the pp balls have been picked to know how many "sure-things" there are.

< Message edited by SoMnFan -- 4/6/2011 8:19:50 PM >

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Post #: 123

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/6/2011 8:54:33 PM

djskillz

Posts: 56861
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

Really sucks.

Hopefully Quinn Cook is a stud, like Coach K and Jay Williams think.

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Post #: 124

RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/6/2011 9:01:39 PM

SoMnFan

Posts: 94902
Status: offline

That kind of disappointment doesn't happen much to you Dukeeees, does it?