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RE: 2011 NBA Draft

 
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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/15/2011 10:44:35 AM   
Phil Riewer


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The question I have after seeing what Lawson can do (in the NBA)....Williams/Walker or Barnes/Walker combo? I think Walker is the same player Lawson is.....very short but very unstoppable. If we end up with the 4th pick I really like Burks but Walker is just too tempting.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 4/15/2011 10:47:32 AM >


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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/15/2011 12:24:59 PM   
Pete M.


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But Walker and Lawson are two different types of guards completely. Does anyone else here get a Dajuan Wagner/Kemba Walker vibe? 
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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/15/2011 12:32:48 PM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete M.

But Walker and Lawson are two different types of guards completely. Does anyone else here get a Dajuan Wagner/Kemba Walker vibe? 


Yes. I think he'll be a bit better than that (still think Ben Gordon might be a good, not perfect, comp). I like him, but I don't think he's going to be a gamechanger at all.

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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/15/2011 8:05:59 PM   
Matt Lang


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The odds of us falling all the way to #4 are very slim - we'd have to be leapfrogged by 3 teams. Falling to #2 though, wouldn't be *that* surprising as rarely does the team with the worst record get the top pick.
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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/15/2011 8:53:44 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

The odds of us falling all the way to #4 are very slim - we'd have to be leapfrogged by 3 teams. Falling to #2 though, wouldn't be *that* surprising as rarely does the team with the worst record get the top pick.


The odds of us drafting 4th are actually the highest of any pick:

Pick 1: 25%
Pick 2: 22%
Pick 3: 18%
Pick 4: 35%

It really isn't a case at all of 3 teams leapfrogging us - we don't really start at pick #1, we start at Pick #4. We need our combination of balls to come up in one of the 3 draws to move up.
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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/15/2011 11:10:35 PM   
Matt Lang


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Hmmm, not sure I get that. For us to fall to #4, 3 teams have to move up, right? I guess one way to look at it is we have 2 in 3 chances of staying in the top 3.

Gotta wrap my mind around this math a little more...


Man that'd be a travesty to pick 4th with the worst record in the league
Post #: 181
RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/16/2011 1:53:50 AM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

Hmmm, not sure I get that. For us to fall to #4, 3 teams have to move up, right?


The first 3 picks are determined totally by a draw. We have the best chance to get the top picks, but we need to have our combination of balls come up in one of the 3 draws. So its not so much that teams need to pass us, as we need toi have our combo come up.
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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/16/2011 10:17:34 AM   
Jim Frenette


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I see a possible NBA lockout is bothering to many kids as a lot of the top ones have declared

In checking a few mocks, they have the Wolves either taking Derrick Williams or Irving with 1st pick and so far all have them taking Singleton from Fla St at 20

http://dcprosportsreport.com/NBAMocks.htm

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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/18/2011 8:40:29 AM   
Stacey King


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CHAPEL HILL, N.C. -- North Carolina's Harrison Barnes will return for his sophomore season instead of declaring for the NBA draft.

Barnes was the Atlantic Coast Conference rookie of the year, averaging nearly 16 points. The 6-foot-8 forward was widely regarded as the nation's top freshman entering the season and helped the Tar Heels win the ACC regular-season championship before getting within a game of the Final Four.

In a statement from the school Monday, Barnes said the team was preparing for a "special season" with the goal of winning a national championship.

Barnes' decision means the Tar Heels will return all five starters
Post #: 184
RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/18/2011 9:19:16 AM   
djskillz


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UNC's going to be pretty sick next year, unfortunately.

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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/18/2011 10:01:58 AM   
Jim Frenette


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

CHAPEL HILL, N.C. -- North Carolina's Harrison Barnes will return for his sophomore season instead of declaring for the NBA draft.

Barnes was the Atlantic Coast Conference rookie of the year, averaging nearly 16 points. The 6-foot-8 forward was widely regarded as the nation's top freshman entering the season and helped the Tar Heels win the ACC regular-season championship before getting within a game of the Final Four.

In a statement from the school Monday, Barnes said the team was preparing for a "special season" with the goal of winning a national championship.

Barnes' decision means the Tar Heels will return all five starters


Wow with all the others coming out I was sure he would also. Maybe he feels he could go #1 if he stays another year

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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/18/2011 10:18:28 AM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

CHAPEL HILL, N.C. -- North Carolina's Harrison Barnes will return for his sophomore season instead of declaring for the NBA draft.

Barnes was the Atlantic Coast Conference rookie of the year, averaging nearly 16 points. The 6-foot-8 forward was widely regarded as the nation's top freshman entering the season and helped the Tar Heels win the ACC regular-season championship before getting within a game of the Final Four.

In a statement from the school Monday, Barnes said the team was preparing for a "special season" with the goal of winning a national championship.

Barnes' decision means the Tar Heels will return all five starters


Wow with all the others coming out I was sure he would also. Maybe he feels he could go #1 if he stays another year


I think more than anything he just wants to win. And he was always big on education. He's extremely bright and ended up choosing UNC over Duke because of their business school.

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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/18/2011 10:52:07 AM   
David Levine


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I'm mostly glad he's staying. It weakens the draft, but I really didn't want to draft him - and he has "Kahn pick" written all over him.
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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/18/2011 11:04:13 AM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I'm mostly glad he's staying. It weakens the draft, but I really didn't want to draft him - and he has "Kahn pick" written all over him.


Really? I can't agree.

I think he's kind of an anti-Kahn pick. He's an incredibly sound player who has an extremely high basketball IQ and he's definitely going to be at least a solid NBA player, IMO. He'd immediately upgrade the Wolves, IMO.

I am excited he's staying though, even though it's at UNC. I like the college game more.

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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/18/2011 11:08:03 AM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I'm mostly glad he's staying. It weakens the draft, but I really didn't want to draft him - and he has "Kahn pick" written all over him.


Really? I can't agree.

I think he's kind of an anti-Kahn pick. He's an incredibly sound player who has an extremely high basketball IQ and he's definitely going to be at least a solid NBA player, IMO. He'd immediately upgrade the Wolves, IMO.

I am excited he's staying though, even though it's at UNC. I like the college game more.


I think he's exactly a Kahn player. Smart, nice kid with a big smile. Midwestern boy. Also highly overrated and pretty inefficient as a player.

Kahn would likely trade up for him.
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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/18/2011 11:11:35 AM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I'm mostly glad he's staying. It weakens the draft, but I really didn't want to draft him - and he has "Kahn pick" written all over him.


Really? I can't agree.

I think he's kind of an anti-Kahn pick. He's an incredibly sound player who has an extremely high basketball IQ and he's definitely going to be at least a solid NBA player, IMO. He'd immediately upgrade the Wolves, IMO.

I am excited he's staying though, even though it's at UNC. I like the college game more.


I think he's exactly a Kahn player. Smart, nice kid with a big smile. Midwestern boy. Also highly overrated and pretty inefficient as a player.

Kahn would likely trade up for him.


I guess we just disagree on him as a player. I think he's an assassin with incredible drive and smarts and will be a very good NBA player. I don't think he's overrated at all either. Other than perhaps Kemba, I'm not sure there was a more "clutch" player in CBB this year. Every time UNC needed a big shot, he'd take it, and hit it, seemingly.

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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/18/2011 11:14:25 AM   
djskillz


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I think Kahn players are more the "athletic" but not good/no high basketball IQ type.

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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/18/2011 11:16:27 AM   
David Levine


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I think this is an exceptionally fair scouting report on him. I think he's going to be a very solid Pro, but I don't think he'll be a #1 guy. And I think the Wolves are absolutely desperate for a "creative wing". A guy who can break down a defense and get to the basket. Who can get to the line on a regular basis. We don't need yet another guy who is primarily a jump shooter.

------------------------

With his excellent footwork, array of step-back moves, and ability to just throw the ball in the basket, Barnes is capable of making some incredibly difficult shots. Unfortunately he relies on this part of his game too heavily, placing him just 74th of the 83 NCAA prospects in our Top 100 rankings in True Shooting Percentage.

Barnes ranks as one of the 35 best off the dribble shooters in the NCAA (min. 75 possessions) according to Synergy Sports Technology, converting 39 of 99 (39%) attempts this season. He elevates impressively with picture perfect mechanics and a beautiful follow through, showing deep range and outstanding touch.

Oddly enough, though, Barnes' accuracy falls off quite a bit in catch and shoot situations (35/115 [30%]), particularly when closely guarded. He tends to dip the ball fairly dramatically before releasing it, which gives the defense time to recover and more effectively contest his shot. With that said, considering the way Barnes has been shooting the ball over the past month or so, most of these concerns have likely been alleviated.

While Barnes' inability to consistently make shots with his feet set has hampered his shooting percentages this season, the more concerning aspect of his play has been his struggles scoring efficiently inside the arc.

Barnes is converting a lackluster 47% of his 2-point attempts, while getting to the free throw line just 4.3 times per-40 minute pace adjusted. By historic standards, both of these figures do not measure up particularly well compared with collegiate wing players in the past.

Barnes does not possess a great first step, nor is he a very creative ball-handler or passer at this stage. He's not particularly effective in transition or isolation situations, as he doesn't show the ability to change speeds or use advanced moves to get by his man.

Barnes has such great confidence in his ability to make shots off the dribble that he tends to settle too quickly for his pull-up jumper, a shot that classifies as a low-percentage possession even for the best scorers. He can make these at a solid 40% clip, and probably will continue to do so in the NBA, but he will not be a particularly efficient offensive player until he diversifies his slashing game and learns how to get inside the paint and draw fouls at a higher rate.

The fact that he's been unable to do so at the collegiate level is somewhat concerning, and is something NBA teams will need to study in order to evaluate how much he can improve in this area down the road.

His play on the defensive end has been nothing short of stellar, though.

Barnes possesses ideal physical tools on this end of the floor, with his excellent size, frame and wingspan. He plays with great intensity but is also very fundamentally sound, getting low in his stance and moving his feet extremely well, usually leaving himself just enough cushion to contest his opponent's shot while still being ready to slide in any direction. Although he doesn't collect a great deal of blocks, steals, or rebounds, he's an extremely effective defender who likely be capable of guarding either wing position at the NBA level, which gives the team that picks him nice versatility to work with.

Something that constantly needs to be mentioned when evaluating Barnes' potential at the NBA level are the intangibles he brings. Despite being just 18 years old, Barnes already plays with a tremendous amount of savvy, something that leaves great optimism regarding his future. He's a team player who displays an ideal temperament out on the floor, never getting too high or low in any given moment, and always playing with great self-confidence.

Anyone that has been around him states emphatically that his character is of the highest standard, and whoever drafts him can be fairly certain that he will represent them extremely well on and off the court. Despite the shortcomings mentioned, there is very little doubt that he will continue to work diligently on improving the weaker points of his game once he reaches the NBA. Considering his age, it's not a stretch to say that he still has plenty of room to grow as a player.

The biggest question mark teams might have about Barnes is whether he has the upside to be the best player on a NBA playoff team, or if he would be better suited playing a more complimentary role. His play in the NCAA tournament starting this weekend could go a long ways in shedding light on this topic, and will likely play a role in how high he ends up being picked—if he decides to enter the draft.
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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/18/2011 11:18:16 AM   
David Levine


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IMO, Burks has a better chance to add a long distance shot to his game than Barnes does of adding attacking/getting to the line to his.

Burks reminds me of a SG version of Westbrook or Rose. A guy who will be very effective from Day 1 despite not having an outside shot. And he'll be unstoppable if he develops as much of one as those guys have.
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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/18/2011 11:21:56 AM   
djskillz


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When was that written? Seems like it was written a bit earlier in the year given the discussion of his shooting. I think his early struggles were more just adapting to the college game than anything mechanical.

I agree that he's not a great creator as far as first-step quickness, but really that might be about the only weakness in his entire game IMO. And with his drive and overall athletic ability/defense, and IQ, I just can't see him not being a very good NBA player; he'd be by far the best player Kahn ever acquired IMO. Which ya, I know, isn't saying much.

I can agree the Wolves need a creator and thus he's not an ideal fit. Though I'd argue that he'll be way better than either Wes or Beasley and it could still make sense to get him and jettison them.

Ideally they get Irving this year. Barnes will probably be national player of the year this year and at least a top 2 pick next.

< Message edited by djskillz -- 4/18/2011 11:24:53 AM >


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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/18/2011 11:23:00 AM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

IMO, Burks has a better chance to add a long distance shot to his game than Barnes does of adding attacking/getting to the line to his.

Burks reminds me of a SG version of Westbrook or Rose. A guy who will be very effective from Day 1 despite not having an outside shot. And he'll be unstoppable if he develops as much of one as those guys have.


Could be. I'm not quite that high on him, because he is a 2g and not a PG, and does not have the elite level speed that those 2 have. But ya, I agree he'd be a better fit for what the Wolves need. But I would not bet on him being a better pro than Barnes overall.

I like both though.

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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/18/2011 11:27:14 AM   
David Levine


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I think he'll be good, but I just don't see a star.

Athletically, he's probably closer to Evan Turner and Paul Pierce than what you really want. His jumper is somewhere between those 2, but both of those guys are light years better than he is at getting to the basket.
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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/18/2011 11:28:31 AM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I think he'll be good, but I just don't see a star.

Athletically, he's probably closer to Evan Turner and Paul Pierce than what you really want. His jumper is somewhere between those 2, but both of those guys are light years better than he is at getting to the basket.


Maybe. But he's stronger than both, likely to be a better rebounder than both (IMO) and a better defender. And I think he's got better makeup and a better overall bball IQ and drive. And even though I have my problems with Pierce, you can do a whole lot worse than Paul Pierce.

And, perhaps the biggest part of all; he's still just 18.

< Message edited by djskillz -- 4/18/2011 11:29:47 AM >


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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/18/2011 11:30:37 AM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

IMO, Burks has a better chance to add a long distance shot to his game than Barnes does of adding attacking/getting to the line to his.

Burks reminds me of a SG version of Westbrook or Rose. A guy who will be very effective from Day 1 despite not having an outside shot. And he'll be unstoppable if he develops as much of one as those guys have.


Could be. I'm not quite that high on him, because he is a 2g and not a PG, and does not have the elite level speed that those 2 have. But ya, I agree he'd be a better fit for what the Wolves need. But I would not bet on him being a better pro than Barnes overall.

I like both though.


He doesn't have their speed, but he's a 6'6 SG. No one that size has those guys' speed. But for a SG, Burks has a tremendous first step/burst and a hell of a 2nd gear. He gets to the line at an absolutely elite level in college and there is no reason to think the same won't hold true in the Pros.
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RE: 2011 NBA Draft - 4/18/2011 11:31:08 AM   
djskillz


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The "dream" scenario for the Wolves IMO would be to somehow get rid of some combination of other "assets" (Rubio/Beasley/Wes/Flynn/whatever) and end up with:

Irving
Kanter
Burks

Might be damn near impossible to do, but maybe not.

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