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RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/16/2012 11:37:36 AM   
Brad Norman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

Somewhere in this discussion lies a good debate. Kobe vs. Love, right now.


Agreed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

I appreciate the guys that were civil and provided stats. However, there has been no mention of defense. That shouldn't be ignored.


Kobe isn't as good defensively as he used to be, and Love isn't as bad on defense as he's usually perceived to be. Plus he seems to be getting better and better in that regard. By all reports his defense on Pau Gasol in the gold medal game was exceptional. I think a case could be made that Kobe and Love are on the same level defensively right now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

Personally, I don't think that Love is easily better than Kobe. I think it's pretty damn close. And that's one hell of a compliment to Kevin Love.


Love blows Kobe away in WP48 and other advanced statistics. I don't see how any other factors can get Kobe very close to Love. Love is just simply the better player at this point in time, IMO.
Post #: 151
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/16/2012 12:16:03 PM   
David Jerde


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Clearly you don't understand that Kobe plays in LA. Hello?
Post #: 152
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/16/2012 1:52:53 PM   
ruffenach

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Jerde

Clearly you don't understand that Kobe plays in LA. Hello?

So True! If you play on a big market team and your a selfish player, you are so much better then everybody else. People only remember the wins and they forget the losses in the big market. It is a lot easier to be the man when the owner is willing to put up the moon to make the team better. Kahn works on a fixed amount of money. Other GM's dont. We put together a great team on limited spending.
Post #: 153
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/16/2012 5:13:48 PM   
Phil Riewer


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Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Jerde

Clearly you don't understand that Kobe plays in LA. Hello?

So True! If you play on a big market team and your a selfish player, you are so much better then everybody else. People only remember the wins and they forget the losses in the big market. It is a lot easier to be the man when the owner is willing to put up the moon to make the team better. Kahn works on a fixed amount of money. Other GM's dont. We put together a great team on limited spending.


Another thing to remember is that the difference between Bynum and Howard is very small....the Nash and Jamison pick ups are the big difference makers but both are getting up there Jamison 36, Nash 38.

In Boston and Miami they are concerned of the age of Terry, KG, Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis but in LA there is no talk about the age of Kobe (34 in a month), Jamison (36), and Nash (39) in Feb. HMMM..OK

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 8/16/2012 5:18:19 PM >


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Post #: 154
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/16/2012 6:19:37 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 21951
Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Jerde

Clearly you don't understand that Kobe plays in LA. Hello?

So True! If you play on a big market team and your a selfish player, you are so much better then everybody else. People only remember the wins and they forget the losses in the big market. It is a lot easier to be the man when the owner is willing to put up the moon to make the team better. Kahn works on a fixed amount of money. Other GM's dont. We put together a great team on limited spending.


Another thing to remember is that the difference between Bynum and Howard is very small....the Nash and Jamison pick ups are the big difference makers but both are getting up there Jamison 36, Nash 38.

In Boston and Miami they are concerned of the age of Terry, KG, Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis but in LA there is no talk about the age of Kobe (34 in a month), Jamison (36), and Nash (39) in Feb. HMMM..OK

IMO the difference between Howard and Bynum is grand canyon sized. Lakers even if Kobe doesn't play next year can still be title contenders IMO. Howard Gasol and Nash who was still great last year is very good.
Post #: 155
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/16/2012 10:20:33 PM   
ruffenach

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Jerde

Clearly you don't understand that Kobe plays in LA. Hello?

So True! If you play on a big market team and your a selfish player, you are so much better then everybody else. People only remember the wins and they forget the losses in the big market. It is a lot easier to be the man when the owner is willing to put up the moon to make the team better. Kahn works on a fixed amount of money. Other GM's dont. We put together a great team on limited spending.


Another thing to remember is that the difference between Bynum and Howard is very small....the Nash and Jamison pick ups are the big difference makers but both are getting up there Jamison 36, Nash 38.

In Boston and Miami they are concerned of the age of Terry, KG, Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis but in LA there is no talk about the age of Kobe (34 in a month), Jamison (36), and Nash (39) in Feb. HMMM..OK

IMO the difference between Howard and Bynum is grand canyon sized. Lakers even if Kobe doesn't play next year can still be title contenders IMO. Howard Gasol and Nash who was still great last year is very good.

The differences between Howard and Bynum may depend upon how bad Howards back is. Backs take a long time to heal and lots of players are never the same after a major back injury. They are subject to lots of reinjury. Also, It will be interesting to see if Howard can keep his head in the game. I think his agent has done a lot to make him a head case. Seasons are long and stressful. The teams who look good on paper are not always the winners. Its still a teeam game and the Lakers appear to be a collection of me first guys. We will see.
Post #: 156
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/16/2012 10:49:38 PM   
Phil Riewer


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From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Jerde

Clearly you don't understand that Kobe plays in LA. Hello?

So True! If you play on a big market team and your a selfish player, you are so much better then everybody else. People only remember the wins and they forget the losses in the big market. It is a lot easier to be the man when the owner is willing to put up the moon to make the team better. Kahn works on a fixed amount of money. Other GM's dont. We put together a great team on limited spending.


Another thing to remember is that the difference between Bynum and Howard is very small....the Nash and Jamison pick ups are the big difference makers but both are getting up there Jamison 36, Nash 38.

In Boston and Miami they are concerned of the age of Terry, KG, Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis but in LA there is no talk about the age of Kobe (34 in a month), Jamison (36), and Nash (39) in Feb. HMMM..OK

IMO the difference between Howard and Bynum is grand canyon sized. Lakers even if Kobe doesn't play next year can still be title contenders IMO. Howard Gasol and Nash who was still great last year is very good.


R U talking attitude or talent. PER rankings had Howard 1 and Bynum 2.....now if you factor attitude there is a big difference. I don't see much gain with Howard plus it is no guarantee LA will be able to resign.....

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 8/17/2012 7:40:50 AM >


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Post #: 157
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/17/2012 12:57:57 AM   
ruffenach

 

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Howard woud be extremely stupid not to resign with LA. LA can offer him the most money. They should be fighting or the championship with or without Howard. LA owner is willing to poney up. The LA local media market is the best in the nation, especially if Howard can carry a lot of weight towards a championship. If he can't do that in LA, he is gong to have far less interest then he does now. His only choice at that time, assuming a bad season, is Houston.
Post #: 158
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/17/2012 1:35:12 AM   
Brad Norman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

His only choice at that time, assuming a bad season, is Houston.


Dallas will also be an option.
Post #: 159
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/17/2012 6:43:23 AM   
ruffenach

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad Norman

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

His only choice at that time, assuming a bad season, is Houston.


Dallas will also be an option.

True! If he has a bad season, would Dallas pony up for big money when there will be a lot of other good players available? If he has a great season, LA is the place to be.
Post #: 160
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/17/2012 8:23:02 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 25030
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Jerde

Clearly you don't understand that Kobe plays in LA. Hello?

So True! If you play on a big market team and your a selfish player, you are so much better then everybody else. People only remember the wins and they forget the losses in the big market. It is a lot easier to be the man when the owner is willing to put up the moon to make the team better. Kahn works on a fixed amount of money. Other GM's dont. We put together a great team on limited spending.


Another thing to remember is that the difference between Bynum and Howard is very small....the Nash and Jamison pick ups are the big difference makers but both are getting up there Jamison 36, Nash 38.

In Boston and Miami they are concerned of the age of Terry, KG, Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis but in LA there is no talk about the age of Kobe (34 in a month), Jamison (36), and Nash (39) in Feb. HMMM..OK

IMO the difference between Howard and Bynum is grand canyon sized. Lakers even if Kobe doesn't play next year can still be title contenders IMO. Howard Gasol and Nash who was still great last year is very good.

The differences between Howard and Bynum may depend upon how bad Howards back is. Backs take a long time to heal and lots of players are never the same after a major back injury. They are subject to lots of reinjury. Also, It will be interesting to see if Howard can keep his head in the game. I think his agent has done a lot to make him a head case. Seasons are long and stressful. The teams who look good on paper are not always the winners. Its still a teeam game and the Lakers appear to be a collection of me first guys. We will see.


Other than Nash, who is kind of the anti-me. But he also kind of a girly man, with liberal leanings.
Post #: 161
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/17/2012 8:55:20 AM   
Ian Joseph


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From: Los Angeles, CA
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This thread is funny. Some good info sprinkled in, but comedy nonetheless.

_____________________________

Hate the message, not the messenger.

Enjoy the process; crave the goal.

Believe.
Post #: 162
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/17/2012 10:20:50 AM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Jerde

Clearly you don't understand that Kobe plays in LA. Hello?

So True! If you play on a big market team and your a selfish player, you are so much better then everybody else. People only remember the wins and they forget the losses in the big market. It is a lot easier to be the man when the owner is willing to put up the moon to make the team better. Kahn works on a fixed amount of money. Other GM's dont. We put together a great team on limited spending.




Another thing to remember is that the difference between Bynum and Howard is very small....the Nash and Jamison pick ups are the big difference makers but both are getting up there Jamison 36, Nash 38.

In Boston and Miami they are concerned of the age of Terry, KG, Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis but in LA there is no talk about the age of Kobe (34 in a month), Jamison (36), and Nash (39) in Feb. HMMM..OK

IMO the difference between Howard and Bynum is grand canyon sized. Lakers even if Kobe doesn't play next year can still be title contenders IMO. Howard Gasol and Nash who was still great last year is very good.


R U talking attitude or talent. PER rankings had Howard 1 and Bynum 2.....now if you factor attitude there is a big difference. I don't see much gain with Howard plus it is no guarantee LA will be able to resign.....


I am talking about the effect that Howard has on the game. Playing with Howard has allowed a lot of mediocre players to look like stars because of all the attention that Howard commands and the way he covers up for his teammates defensively. Bynum does not have that effect.
Post #: 163
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/17/2012 11:34:09 AM   
Phil Riewer


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Last year when Bynum had his head on straight he was a force on both ends.....MN handled most front lines but couldn't with Gasol and Bynum. You are overvaluing Howard and undervaluing Bynum....

Bynum has size and reach over Howard....Howard has pick and roll benefits over Bynum on both offense and defense plus Howard is a 58% free throw shooter, Bynum was 78%.....it is closer than most think.

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Post #: 164
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/17/2012 1:09:40 PM   
kgdabom

 

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Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Last year when Bynum had his head on straight he was a force on both ends.....MN handled most front lines but couldn't with Gasol and Bynum. You are overvaluing Howard and undervaluing Bynum....

Bynum has size and reach over Howard....Howard has pick and roll benefits over Bynum on both offense and defense plus Howard is a 58% free throw shooter, Bynum was 78%.....it is closer than most think.

I don't pay a lot of attention to either. I am not searching out games to watch with Howard or Bynum as a habit. On the times when I have watched Howard has a much greater impact on the game than Bynum. Maybe you are right, but the evidence is not their in my limited experience of watching them. We all know that Howard sucks at shooting FTs but 58% from the line is still over a point on average each time he goes to the line for a couple shots. My point with this is that Howard getting fouled is typically a net positive for his team even though he comparably sucks at shooting them. He gets fouled a LOT.
Post #: 165
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/17/2012 2:21:37 PM   
Phil Riewer


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From: MN
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I would willing to bet Howard's scoring and rebounding go down.....which would be about bynum's 17.* and 11.* averages last year plus he isnt as big.

As an outsider looking in....the biggest problems with Bynum were attitude and injuries.....can u honestly say those are fixed with Howard?

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 8/17/2012 2:29:29 PM >


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Post #: 166
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/17/2012 4:46:16 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I would willing to bet Howard's scoring and rebounding go down.....which would be about bynum's 17.* and 11.* averages last year plus he isnt as big.

As an outsider looking in....the biggest problems with Bynum were attitude and injuries.....can u honestly say those are fixed with Howard?

With Howard being able to rebound all of Kobe's bricks those averages should go up .

Howard's attitude on the court has never been much of a problem as far as I know. The difference between Howard and Bynum are that Howard is easily more athletic and much more of a warrior. Injuries have never been a concern for Howard in the past but I know he is dealing with recovery from surgery right now. I expect Howard to recover from his surgery and be at his very best for most of this coming season. Bynum has his moments when he is very good, I just don't see him as being an elite player. Howard is arguably the second best player in the league.
Post #: 167
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/17/2012 5:22:34 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Much of the country understands Love is but a role player. Decent but he can't create his own shots. Limited. But he's a good rebounder.

He's a cross between Tyler Hansborough and Blake Griffin, only less athletic.

I post about Love, kgaboom posts about me, go figure.


Dude, you started the personal attacks with your knob licker comment. Now you're going to play victim?


Love isn't just a good rebounder, he's working at one of the top rates in NBA history.

And you apparently didn't watch him much last year, as he demonstrated the ability to create his own shot. He put up 26 PPG; Kobe put up 28, but he needed 4 more shots per game to get the additional 2 points. Love definitively moved out of the category of role player.



Dude?

DUDE!

Aren't you the David that will be owing me a steak dinner or the $20 for an out of stater based on the projected Vikes records? I get you David's mixed up.
Post #: 168
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/17/2012 5:23:10 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

We will see if Howard and Nash's back hold up Bill. You can pat yourself on your back (or try as Laker Nation has to ignore the bad backs of Nash and Howard's) all you want but the wolves have put themselves in the running. Roy's knee is an issue but the Lakers have two bad backs to watch.

Twolves

Additions:
Buddinger
Cunningham
Steimsa
AK47
Shved
Roy

Subtractions:
Beasley
Wes
Randolph
Ellington
Tolliver
Darko

Since you are not a Wolves fan the 4 best transactions this offseason are the Subtractions of Beasley, Wes, Randolph, and Darko.



I see you are still on planet la-la.
Post #: 169
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/17/2012 5:24:39 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 16701
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Jerde

Clearly you don't understand that Kobe plays in LA. Hello?

So True! If you play on a big market team and your a selfish player, you are so much better then everybody else. People only remember the wins and they forget the losses in the big market. It is a lot easier to be the man when the owner is willing to put up the moon to make the team better. Kahn works on a fixed amount of money. Other GM's dont. We put together a great team on limited spending.



Ref. bold: WHAT?
Post #: 170
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/17/2012 5:26:59 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 16701
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Jerde

Clearly you don't understand that Kobe plays in LA. Hello?

So True! If you play on a big market team and your a selfish player, you are so much better then everybody else. People only remember the wins and they forget the losses in the big market. It is a lot easier to be the man when the owner is willing to put up the moon to make the team better. Kahn works on a fixed amount of money. Other GM's dont. We put together a great team on limited spending.


Another thing to remember is that the difference between Bynum and Howard is very small....the Nash and Jamison pick ups are the big difference makers but both are getting up there Jamison 36, Nash 38.

In Boston and Miami they are concerned of the age of Terry, KG, Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis but in LA there is no talk about the age of Kobe (34 in a month), Jamison (36), and Nash (39) in Feb. HMMM..OK


OMG. Yeah there is no talk of "win now because that door is going to close rapidly." Hell, every Laker fan thinks those players are all 26 and age is some issue only Boston has.
Post #: 171
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/17/2012 5:29:53 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 16701
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I would willing to bet Howard's scoring and rebounding go down.....which would be about bynum's 17.* and 11.* averages last year plus he isnt as big.

As an outsider looking in....the biggest problems with Bynum were attitude and injuries.....can u honestly say those are fixed with Howard?

With Howard being able to rebound all of Kobe's bricks those averages should go up .

Howard's attitude on the court has never been much of a problem as far as I know. The difference between Howard and Bynum are that Howard is easily more athletic and much more of a warrior. Injuries have never been a concern for Howard in the past but I know he is dealing with recovery from surgery right now. I expect Howard to recover from his surgery and be at his very best for most of this coming season. Bynum has his moments when he is very good, I just don't see him as being an elite player. Howard is arguably the second best player in the league.



Good analysis.
Post #: 172
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/17/2012 5:30:12 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 21951
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Jerde

Clearly you don't understand that Kobe plays in LA. Hello?

So True! If you play on a big market team and your a selfish player, you are so much better then everybody else. People only remember the wins and they forget the losses in the big market. It is a lot easier to be the man when the owner is willing to put up the moon to make the team better. Kahn works on a fixed amount of money. Other GM's dont. We put together a great team on limited spending.



Ref. bold: WHAT?

Bill I probably shouldn't but I am going to treat you as a non troll on this. I agree that Great team is certainly an exaggeration at this point. However I think the Wolves have a good shot at being a good team this year. I could see them winning 50 games or more IF things fall into place. I don't see a losing season barring catastrophe.
Post #: 173
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/17/2012 5:32:59 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 16701
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Jerde

Clearly you don't understand that Kobe plays in LA. Hello?

So True! If you play on a big market team and your a selfish player, you are so much better then everybody else. People only remember the wins and they forget the losses in the big market. It is a lot easier to be the man when the owner is willing to put up the moon to make the team better. Kahn works on a fixed amount of money. Other GM's dont. We put together a great team on limited spending.



Ref. bold: WHAT?

Bill I probably shouldn't but I am going to treat you as a non troll on this. I agree that Great team is certainly an exaggeration at this point. However I think the Wolves have a good shot at being a good team this year. I could see them winning 50 games or more IF things fall into place. I don't see a losing season barring catastrophe.


Could be, I've read they've improved.

Great... superstar... etc... all these terms have been so watered down over the years.

But like LA it is all on paper.

You'll never hear me say to send the trophy to LA.
Post #: 174
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/17/2012 10:55:56 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 25030
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Jerde

Clearly you don't understand that Kobe plays in LA. Hello?

So True! If you play on a big market team and your a selfish player, you are so much better then everybody else. People only remember the wins and they forget the losses in the big market. It is a lot easier to be the man when the owner is willing to put up the moon to make the team better. Kahn works on a fixed amount of money. Other GM's dont. We put together a great team on limited spending.


Another thing to remember is that the difference between Bynum and Howard is very small....the Nash and Jamison pick ups are the big difference makers but both are getting up there Jamison 36, Nash 38.

In Boston and Miami they are concerned of the age of Terry, KG, Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis but in LA there is no talk about the age of Kobe (34 in a month), Jamison (36), and Nash (39) in Feb. HMMM..OK


OMG. Yeah there is no talk of "win now because that door is going to close rapidly." Hell, every Laker fan thinks those players are all 26 and age is some issue only Boston has.


Reminds me of the King of Queens episode where Doug thinks his parents boxer is the same one he grew up with 28 years ago, totally oblivious that his parents have gone through 4 dogs in that time. Also totally oblivious that the current version is not sporting low hanging fruit.
Post #: 175
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