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RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 4:40:42 PM

David Levine

Posts: 74884
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Actually the more I look at Dinwiddie, if his knee checks out, I really want him.

Ideal SG size that can drive, shoot and pass:

Attempted four 3s a game and hit them at 41%
Got to the line 7 times a game and hit his FTs at 86%
And he added 4 assists per game.
And 1,5 steals for good measure.

quote:

He looked good in the 17 games that he did play, averaging a cool 16.6 points and 4.6 assists against the likes of #6 Kansas, #7 Oklahoma State, #10 Oregon, #25 Baylor, and Harvard, while doing well in a match up with likely top-10 pick Marcus Smart.

Those numbers are rather awesome. Must be some reason he isn't rated very high. Is it the knee or the level of competition?

Torn ACL in January.

Post #: 101

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 4:41:51 PM

David Levine

Posts: 74884
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

I'm not a big Stauskus fan, but his shot chart is gorgeous - and made for the NBA:

Post #: 102

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 4:42:26 PM

David Levine

Posts: 74884
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

Cleveland pushed on deal centered on No. 1 pick for Kevin Love, but his refusal to re-sign w/ Cavs has killed talks

this is why Flip is not going to be able to get a windfall for Love.

Like the Boston rumored deal, it is probably for just 1/4th of the players, picks mentioned.

Love and his agent are steering this bus too.

Flip has it tough.

Find one of Love's desired locations and get that team to offer something reasonable.

Would Lebron returning to Cleveland make Love do a 180 on this?

LeBron can't say one way or the other until after the draft. Too late them.

Post #: 103

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 4:42:51 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 32678
Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

Keep in mind that while the Boston deal gets us the 6th pick, it also helps us be bad this coming year so that our own pick next June is high. The highest pick we get could/should easily be our own next year - hopefully in the top 5. I would much, MUCH rather have a top 5 pick next year than one in the 10-13 range.

I just hate and can't abide the idea that we are going to suck after we make this trade is a bonus. I hate the idea that we would be too good regarding another trade. I get looking at the long term of a deal but No I will never ever be in favor of intentional sucking or tanking.

Post #: 104

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 4:44:07 PM

David Levine

Posts: 74884
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

NBA draft rumor: Multiple league sources believe that Zach LaVine has a promise from the Minnesota Timberwolves at No. 13.

— Alex Kennedy (@AlexKennedyNBA) June 25, 2014

I like it. Never saw him play just getting a good vibe that this guy will be a better pro than he was a college player. Nothing logical or scientific. Just a vibe.

Literally one of the most bone-headed players I've seen in a while. Guy has no idea what he's doing on the floor. He's going to need an incredible amount of coaching and maturing.

Post #: 105

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 4:44:34 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 32678
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

Cleveland pushed on deal centered on No. 1 pick for Kevin Love, but his refusal to re-sign w/ Cavs has killed talks

this is why Flip is not going to be able to get a windfall for Love.

Like the Boston rumored deal, it is probably for just 1/4th of the players, picks mentioned.

Love and his agent are steering this bus too.

Flip has it tough.

Find one of Love's desired locations and get that team to offer something reasonable.

Would Lebron returning to Cleveland make Love do a 180 on this?

LeBron can't say one way or the other until after the draft. Too late them.

He could tell Love before the Draft if he intends on returning to Cleveland.

Post #: 106

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 4:45:20 PM

kgdabom

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Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

NBA draft rumor: Multiple league sources believe that Zach LaVine has a promise from the Minnesota Timberwolves at No. 13.

— Alex Kennedy (@AlexKennedyNBA) June 25, 2014

I like it. Never saw him play just getting a good vibe that this guy will be a better pro than he was a college player. Nothing logical or scientific. Just a vibe.

Literally one of the most bone-headed players I've seen in a while. Guy has no idea what he's doing on the floor. He's going to need an incredible amount of coaching and maturing.

I just got a vibe. He certainly could totally suck. For what it is worth Gerald Green played quite well when given minutes this season as far as I can tell but maybe you have some metric that shows he still sucked. Of course it took him a long time to turn into a decent player.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 6/25/2014 4:48:35 PM >

Post #: 107

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 4:51:14 PM

David Levine

Posts: 74884
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

NBA draft rumor: Multiple league sources believe that Zach LaVine has a promise from the Minnesota Timberwolves at No. 13.

— Alex Kennedy (@AlexKennedyNBA) June 25, 2014

I like it. Never saw him play just getting a good vibe that this guy will be a better pro than he was a college player. Nothing logical or scientific. Just a vibe.

Literally one of the most bone-headed players I've seen in a while. Guy has no idea what he's doing on the floor. He's going to need an incredible amount of coaching and maturing.

I just got a vibe. He certainly could totally suck. For what it is worth Gerald Green played quite well when given minutes this season as far as I can tell but maybe you have some metric that shows he still sucked. Of course it took him a long time to turn into a decent player.

Gerald Green is pretty good now. After playing in Russia, China and for 3 D-League teams.

That's my guess as to what LaVine is going to have to do as well. I think if we draft him, he might get less run as a rookie than Shabazz did last year.

Post #: 108

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 4:51:17 PM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

Keep in mind that while the Boston deal gets us the 6th pick, it also helps us be bad this coming year so that our own pick next June is high. The highest pick we get could/should easily be our own next year - hopefully in the top 5. I would much, MUCH rather have a top 5 pick next year than one in the 10-13 range.

Flip would rather do the ladder and continue to overpay FA's noone wants and flirt with the 8th seed year in year out.

The best thing to do right now is to tear it down and start over. We have a couple decent players in Pek and Rubio. We need Lottary picks and lots of them the next 2-3 years and we could develop a very young core nucleus. Meanwhile, Flip has to stay away from signing the Martins and Brewers of the world

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 109

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 4:52:00 PM

Stacey King

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Flip should be able to get a future #2 from Cleveland/Blatt for Shved.

Or Alonzo Gee or a little something.

Post #: 110

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 4:57:42 PM

Stacey King

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0ne thing to hope for that LaVine promise not to be true is almost all reports say that Flip has no interest in a total re-build in a Love trade return.

If you could extend that thinking to a draft choice like LaVine who is a raw project it hopefully doesn't follow.

Of all the 8 thru 13 type draft prospects the only one that could fall in Flip's lap that would be awesome fortune would be Garry Harris.

But I don't think we'd get that lucky.

Post #: 111

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 5:02:43 PM

Matt Lang

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

Keep in mind that while the Boston deal gets us the 6th pick, it also helps us be bad this coming year so that our own pick next June is high. The highest pick we get could/should easily be our own next year - hopefully in the top 5. I would much, MUCH rather have a top 5 pick next year than one in the 10-13 range.

I just hate and can't abide the idea that we are going to suck after we make this trade is a bonus. I hate the idea that we would be too good regarding another trade. I get looking at the long term of a deal but No I will never ever be in favor of intentional sucking or tanking.

That's fine. For me, I don't like shooting for (and missing) the 8th seed year after year and don't see how a team improves significantly with picks in the 10-14 range.

Post #: 112

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 5:04:05 PM

kgdabom

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Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Actually the more I look at Dinwiddie, if his knee checks out, I really want him.

Ideal SG size that can drive, shoot and pass:

Attempted four 3s a game and hit them at 41%
Got to the line 7 times a game and hit his FTs at 86%
And he added 4 assists per game.
And 1,5 steals for good measure.

quote:

He looked good in the 17 games that he did play, averaging a cool 16.6 points and 4.6 assists against the likes of #6 Kansas, #7 Oklahoma State, #10 Oregon, #25 Baylor, and Harvard, while doing well in a match up with likely top-10 pick Marcus Smart.

Those numbers are rather awesome. Must be some reason he isn't rated very high. Is it the knee or the level of competition?

Torn ACL in January.

People do come back from ACL's but I am not a big fan of drafting people coming off injuries.

Post #: 113

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 5:06:03 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 32678
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

Keep in mind that while the Boston deal gets us the 6th pick, it also helps us be bad this coming year so that our own pick next June is high. The highest pick we get could/should easily be our own next year - hopefully in the top 5. I would much, MUCH rather have a top 5 pick next year than one in the 10-13 range.

I just hate and can't abide the idea that we are going to suck after we make this trade is a bonus. I hate the idea that we would be too good regarding another trade. I get looking at the long term of a deal but No I will never ever be in favor of intentional sucking or tanking.

That's fine. For me, I don't like shooting for (and missing) the 8th seed year after year and don't see how a team improves significantly with picks in the 10-14 range.

So next season will you be rooting for our Wolves to lose as many games as possible to get the best chance at a top pick. I will be cheering for them to win every game even if it costs us draft position or loses our pick to the Suns.

Post #: 114

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 5:17:22 PM

Matt Lang

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Simmons: http://grantland.com/features/nba-draft-crapshoot-repick-1995/

2009 draft breakdown

quote:

Even if the first seven picks yielded three franchise guys, we’ll remember this draft for the point guards: Curry became a franchise guy; Lawson, Rubio, Holiday, Teague, Jennings, Collison and Beverley became starters; Maynor and Mills became steady backups; Jonny Flynn became an iconic bust; and the immortal David Kahn took consecutive point guards at no. 5 and no. 6 while passing on Curry both times. Did he claim that Rubio and Flynn were the next Frazier and Monroe? Of course he did!

Just so you know, I love the 2009 draft as much as I love both of my dogs. Two straight point guards???? And neither of them were Steph Curry???? Trust me, this was Courtney Love–level insane the moment it happened.

Post #: 115

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 5:18:23 PM

David Levine

Posts: 74884
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Actually the more I look at Dinwiddie, if his knee checks out, I really want him.

Ideal SG size that can drive, shoot and pass:

Attempted four 3s a game and hit them at 41%
Got to the line 7 times a game and hit his FTs at 86%
And he added 4 assists per game.
And 1,5 steals for good measure.

quote:

He looked good in the 17 games that he did play, averaging a cool 16.6 points and 4.6 assists against the likes of #6 Kansas, #7 Oklahoma State, #10 Oregon, #25 Baylor, and Harvard, while doing well in a match up with likely top-10 pick Marcus Smart.

Those numbers are rather awesome. Must be some reason he isn't rated very high. Is it the knee or the level of competition?

Torn ACL in January.

People do come back from ACL's but I am not a big fan of drafting people coming off injuries.

And that's why he dropped. Although I think there is a very good chance he works his way into the 1st round.

Post #: 116

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 5:18:59 PM

David Levine

Posts: 74884
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

Keep in mind that while the Boston deal gets us the 6th pick, it also helps us be bad this coming year so that our own pick next June is high. The highest pick we get could/should easily be our own next year - hopefully in the top 5. I would much, MUCH rather have a top 5 pick next year than one in the 10-13 range.

I just hate and can't abide the idea that we are going to suck after we make this trade is a bonus. I hate the idea that we would be too good regarding another trade. I get looking at the long term of a deal but No I will never ever be in favor of intentional sucking or tanking.

That's fine. For me, I don't like shooting for (and missing) the 8th seed year after year and don't see how a team improves significantly with picks in the 10-14 range.

So next season will you be rooting for our Wolves to lose as many games as possible to get the best chance at a top pick. I will be cheering for them to win every game even if it costs us draft position or loses our pick to the Suns.

Nope. I'll be rooting for wins, but less upset with losses knowing they're for the greater good.

Post #: 117

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 5:28:31 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 32678
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

NBA draft rumor: Multiple league sources believe that Zach LaVine has a promise from the Minnesota Timberwolves at No. 13.

— Alex Kennedy (@AlexKennedyNBA) June 25, 2014

I like it. Never saw him play just getting a good vibe that this guy will be a better pro than he was a college player. Nothing logical or scientific. Just a vibe.

Literally one of the most bone-headed players I've seen in a while. Guy has no idea what he's doing on the floor. He's going to need an incredible amount of coaching and maturing.

I just got a vibe. He certainly could totally suck. For what it is worth Gerald Green played quite well when given minutes this season as far as I can tell but maybe you have some metric that shows he still sucked. Of course it took him a long time to turn into a decent player.

Gerald Green is pretty good now. After playing in Russia, China and for 3 D-League teams.

That's my guess as to what LaVine is going to have to do as well. I think if we draft him, he might get less run as a rookie than Shabazz did last year.

Than our fans should really be on board with LaVine. He will help us really suck next year to get the highest draft pick possible. He will continue to help us get better draft picks for like 5 years and then explode for our Championship team in 2020. Also because he will be playing poorly at the time his second contract comes up we should be able to sign him cheap.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 6/25/2014 5:35:23 PM >

Post #: 118

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 5:32:35 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 32678
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

Keep in mind that while the Boston deal gets us the 6th pick, it also helps us be bad this coming year so that our own pick next June is high. The highest pick we get could/should easily be our own next year - hopefully in the top 5. I would much, MUCH rather have a top 5 pick next year than one in the 10-13 range.

I just hate and can't abide the idea that we are going to suck after we make this trade is a bonus. I hate the idea that we would be too good regarding another trade. I get looking at the long term of a deal but No I will never ever be in favor of intentional sucking or tanking.

That's fine. For me, I don't like shooting for (and missing) the 8th seed year after year and don't see how a team improves significantly with picks in the 10-14 range.

So next season will you be rooting for our Wolves to lose as many games as possible to get the best chance at a top pick. I will be cheering for them to win every game even if it costs us draft position or loses our pick to the Suns.

Nope. I'll be rooting for wins, but less upset with losses knowing they're for the greater good.

Hey DL thanks for answering that question directed to Matt. I'm glad you will be hoping for us to win. I will never consider losses to be for the greater good. I really believe that losing breeds more losing.

Post #: 119

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 5:46:46 PM

Phil Riewer

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From: MN
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I believe that was the partially the reason as they signed OJ as a FA, still had Caron Butler, plus they drafted Wolters, Gary Neal and Ridnour too...later they traded away Neal and Ridnour....

One of the biggest problems was the coach had weird rotations and they just had a big mix of players--you look at their roster at the beginning of the season:

PG: Neal, Ridnour, Knight, Wolters
SG: Delfino, Mayo
SF: C Butler, Middleton, Alphabet
PF: Illysoava, Henson
C: Sanders, Pachulia, Rudj***

It look like a pretty decent roster and after the coaches rotation, a bunch of injuries, etc. they were moving in every direction with their roster....(still are). After some issues they traded away Ridnour and Neal for Adrien and Sessions, & bought out Butler.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Knight didn't play much to start the season because they also signed OJ May and didn't know what they have in Knight, look at his splits---particularly the 1st and last months---the kid is on the rise. He was asked to defend the top guard most nights and still put up good stats, the Pistons said he was their best wing defender before they traded him.

Knight is a star on the rise---mark it down.

Basically OJ Mayo was benched after a month due to his play....but believe what you will.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/6448/brandon-knight

Wasn't Knight dealing with an injury that prevented him from playing and then limited him during the first month?

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 6/25/2014 5:55:57 PM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 120

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 6:15:32 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 32678
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

Keep in mind that while the Boston deal gets us the 6th pick, it also helps us be bad this coming year so that our own pick next June is high. The highest pick we get could/should easily be our own next year - hopefully in the top 5. I would much, MUCH rather have a top 5 pick next year than one in the 10-13 range.

I just hate and can't abide the idea that we are going to suck after we make this trade is a bonus. I hate the idea that we would be too good regarding another trade. I get looking at the long term of a deal but No I will never ever be in favor of intentional sucking or tanking.

That's fine. For me, I don't like shooting for (and missing) the 8th seed year after year and don't see how a team improves significantly with picks in the 10-14 range.

OK Matt go on record. Do you want us to totally suck next year to get the highest pick possible and will you be happier when we lose games rather than win? That is how this comment sounds to me. I just want an official statement.

Post #: 121

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 7:03:13 PM

David Levine

Posts: 74884
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

Keep hope alive.

Jon Krawczynski ✔ @APkrawczynski
Done a lot of digging on TWolves alleged promise to Zach LaVine. Find no evidence to support that. Believe they do have interest in him

Post #: 122

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 7:04:48 PM

Matt Lang

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Joined: 7/30/2007
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quote:

OK Matt go on record. Do you want us to totally suck next year to get the highest pick possible and will you be happier when we lose games rather than win? That is how this comment sounds to me. I just want an official statement.

Sure, though of course it depends on definitions. "Do you want us to totally suck next year..." -- a young team could play hard but still lose a lot of games. That's not "totally suck" in the same way as a team built around overpaid, average players winning 40 games a year is, in that the former is building for the future while the latter is going nowhere and is basically prolonging the time of purgatory before rebooting with a young team with lots of draft picks. The best way to actually improve is to get a high-quality player in the draft. The more high draft picks, the better the odds for getting that player. Though on the other hand, the Simmons column I posted above shows that after the #1 pick, the draft is really a crapshoot: http://grantland.com/features/nba-draft-crapshoot-repick-1995/

Still the basic answer is that winning only 20 games but playing hard and playing well with talented players building for the future and getting another high draft pick next June is much less "totally suck" than winning 40 games but going nowhere. And so I prefer the former.

Post #: 123

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 7:06:47 PM

David Levine

Posts: 74884
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

Simmons:

quote:

Which brings me to a bigger point: You know how you make an NBA general manager miserable? Stick him in a loaded lottery. It’s one thing to play the guessing game with Otto Porter, Alex Len, Ben McLemore and a one-legged Nerlens Noel; none of those guys will haunt you. But if you’re picking between Wiggins, Parker, Embiid and Exum, or you have your choice of Vonleh, Smart, Gordon and Randle? Now that’s a nightmare.

Someone Who Knows Things told me that multiple teams are shopping 2014 lottery picks for the same reason that Minnesota’s Flip Saunders doesn’t want a top-eight lottery pick for Kevin Love. Basically, they’re a little scared to make the pick.

Post #: 124

RE: Wolves talk and rumors 2014 - 6/25/2014 7:10:15 PM

David Levine

Posts: 74884
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
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I mean doesn't this guy just fill you with confidence about the draft?

quote:

The way Saunders described it in a brief press conference after the first round had concluded on Thursday, the Wolves were reduced to operating with their fourth of four planned-for scenarios. They had three priority players they could reasonably hope would be available at the ninth overall pick, but all of them were taken. They thus exercised option four, which was to trade down from the ninth slot in exchange for the 14th and 21st overall picks. Muhammad was among the players the Wolves had targeted for the 14th pick, but even here, Saunders intimated that he wasn’t their first preference among this second tier.

“I’m sure it’s [my Twitter feed] blown up and I’m sure it’s not real good,” he said. “Hey, that’s why you’re in this position. You have to own up to the picks you make. … I know people probably aren’t happy. We’ve got to fill a roster and there are a lot of ways to fill it.”

"It's not a popular pick," Flip Saunders conceded later in the evening.