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Boxing Talk - 1/3/2018 6:08:40 PM

Ian Joseph

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Welcome to TalkVikes Boxing Talk!! This is your spot for all things related to the sweet science.

Here are a couple of links to help you stay informed on the latest and greatest in the sport.

www.boxrec.com

www.fighthype.com

www.fightnews.com

More to come! (message still under construction)

< Message edited by Ian Joseph -- 1/4/2018 10:35:47 PM >

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Post #: 1

RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 8:21:33 AM

twinsfan

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Oh no. Not the Other Minnesota Sports section. This is where topics go to die.

I guess I'd like to see a Pacquiao vs Mayweather rematch.

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Post #: 2

RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 8:30:53 AM

TJSweens

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Joined: 7/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Sugar Ray Leonard is a man that was victorious in only ONE match after the age of 32. His last 4 matches, while still a relatively young man, resulted in a record of 1-2-1. I'm just not sure a guy can be the greatest fighter alive if he barely did anything after Age 30.

At age 33, he fought Hearns (#3 on my list) to a draw in their rematch. Later beat Roberto Duran in their rubber match. Didn't fight again until age 35 and lost to the WBC light middleweight champion Terry Norris. Didn't fight again until age 41 and lost to middleweight champion Hector Camacho. You're really reaching here.

BTW, Hagler was 0-1 after age 32. Remember? He lost to Leonard.

Oops!

I decided to copy this from the old thread because it's funny when Matt trips over his own argument.

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Post #: 3

RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 10:04:21 AM

TJSweens

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Joined: 7/16/2007
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Here is my list of living heavyweight champions.

1. Big George Foreman: 76 – 5 with 68 KO; Holyfield, who fought Tyson and Lewis twice each, maintains to this day that the old, fat version of Foreman he fought to a 12-round decision was the hardest puncher he ever faced in his life. The young Foreman hit even harder. The only fighter I have ever seen drop an opponent with a body shot. He retired for the first time as he was just entering his prime at age 28 years and 66 days.

2. Lennox Lewis: 41 – 2 with 32 KO; Knocked out Tyson and beat Holyfield twice even though the first one was ruled a draw. TKO over Vitali Klitschko in his last fight.

3. Vitali Klitschko: 45 – 2 with 41 KO; Never knocked down in his career. Retired with the title at age 42 after a TKO win over future champion Manuel Charr.

4. Mike Tyson: 50 – 6 with 44 KO; Yeah, I get it, Holyfield beat him twice. That was the later career Tyson who had been badly mishandled by Don King and incarcerated following the death of Cus D’amato. I have no doubt a properly handled Tyson would have destroyed him.

5. Evander Holyfield: 44 – 10 with 29 KO; His career as a whole vs Tyson’s career, Holyfield suffered some really bad losses and didn’t have as much KO ability as the other fighters I list.

6. Wladimir Klitschko: 64 – 5 with 53 KO; Little brother has the longest combined world championship reign in boxing history. The only reason he wasn’t # 5 is that Holyfield fought against a stronger field.

7. Larry Holmes: 69 – 6 with 44 KO: Reigned over the weakest era of heavyweight boxing since Joe Louis’ “Bum of the Month” era. He defended against a lot of ham eggers and for a good portion of that time, he should have been wearing a sports bra in the ring.

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"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 4

RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 10:08:23 AM

Ian Joseph

Posts: 15350
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From: Los Angeles, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Oh no. Not the Other Minnesota Sports section. This is where topics go to die.

I guess I'd like to see a Pacquiao vs Mayweather rematch.

Dont worry, it will live lol..

Really? MayPac2? I have zero interest in ever seeing that fight. I dont even want to watch the replay on the first one lol.

I'm a huge Mayweather fan, but that fight was garbage to me. He started walking Pacquaio back with the jab in round 1. I knew it was over then. Now, Floyd could have turned it up on Manny in the later stages of the fight and probably KOd him, but I know he played it safe. And I'm not mad at him for it. Manny never adjusted to the jab, so why switch it up.

INPO, these are the fights I want to see in 2018, some of which have been signed and/or are close to agreement.

1. Adonis Stevenson vs. Badou Jack - Stevenson doesnt fight often and when he does, its against a tomato can. I'm tired of his title being held hostage (plus, I dont think he's that good anymore).

2. GGG vv. Canelo Alvarez 2 - I'm not chomping at the bit for this fight, but I know it will produce a conclusive result, even if its a controversial decision. But, this fight happening will open up the middleweight division to new blood fighting for championships.

3. Mikey Garcia vs. Vasyl Lomachenko - OMG what a fight this would be at 135!

4. Errol Spence vs. Keith Thurman - Ditto at 147!

5. Terrance Crawford vs. any PBC-fighter at 147 - this fight would let us know that fights can be made with the bigger named PBC fighters. Until then, I feel like Bob Arum is just going to keep feeding him Top Rank fighters, most of which are trash in 147.

6. Kell Brook vs. Amir Khan - Only want to see this becuz of the bad blood they have and the fans would be absolutely crazy for it. I'm a big fan of Kell Brook and while I feel like his GGG fight kind of ruined him physically (he's going to have facial issues for the rest of his career, he can beat Khan, who is a great looking fighter until he gets brave (and stupid).

7. Deontay Wilder vs. Anthony Joshua - Great heavyweight fight, even if I'm not a believer that either are great heavyweights, though they are certainly better than anything we've had in quite some time. I think Wilder gets him early actually, as I feel like Joshua is a bit chinny.

8. Sadam Ali vs. Jermell Charlo - Ok, so Ali beat Cotto in his last fight and is now a champion at 154. I want to see how good he actually is, so lets have him fight a beast and see.

9. Danny Jacobs vs. Billy Joe Saunders - I'd love to see this fight at 160. The winner can get the winner of GGG/Canelo 2.

10. Guillermo Rigondeaux vs. Gary Russell Jr - With Rigo maybe being forced to fight at 126, this is a great fight. It puts Russell in tough with a great fighter and also puts Rigo in there with someone that much like Loma, will push him with speed and athleticism. Will Russell come up short again? Will Rigo fold and quit again?

And since we are talking fights I'd like to see, these are the fights I don't.

1. David Lemeuix vs. Canelo Alvarez - Basic money grab fight for GBP, where its just a showcase for a champion that doesn't need one.

2. Manny Pacquaio vs. Jeff Horn 2 - Not interested in seeing a disinterested great fighter in decline against a bum that cant box.

3. Amir Khan vs. Anybody not named Kell Brook - It will either be a non-punching power cherry pick (who will STILL ring Khan's bell at least once in the fight) OR a guy that will wipe the floor with him once Amir stops fighting outside and stays in the pocket too long like the dummy he is.

4. Vasyl Lomachenko - Gervonta Davis - On paper, its a great fight. But, I think Loma would ruin Davis as a fighter. Mentally, Davis isn't ready for this kind of fight and he'd get beat up bad. He'd never be the same.

5. Anything involving a non-serious Adrien Broner - If he's not going to take his career serious and realize his potential at all, I don't want to see him fight again.

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Post #: 5

RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 10:16:32 AM

Ian Joseph

Posts: 15350
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From: Los Angeles, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Here is my list of living heavyweight champions.

1. Big George Foreman: 76 – 5 with 68 KO; Holyfield, who fought Tyson and Lewis twice each, maintains to this day that the old, fat version of Foreman he fought to a 12-round decision was the hardest puncher he ever faced in his life. The young Foreman hit even harder. The only fighter I have ever seen drop an opponent with a body shot. He retired for the first time as he was just entering his prime at age 28 years and 66 days.

2. Lennox Lewis: 41 – 2 with 32 KO; Knocked out Tyson and beat Holyfield twice even though the first one was ruled a draw. TKO over Vitali Klitschko in his last fight.

3. Vitali Klitschko: 45 – 2 with 41 KO; Never knocked down in his career. Retired with the title at age 42 after a TKO win over future champion Manuel Charr.

4. Mike Tyson: 50 – 6 with 44 KO; Yeah, I get it, Holyfield beat him twice. That was the later career Tyson who had been badly mishandled by Don King and incarcerated following the death of Cus D’amato. I have no doubt a properly handled Tyson would have destroyed him.

5. Evander Holyfield: 44 – 10 with 29 KO; His career as a whole vs Tyson’s career, Holyfield suffered some really bad losses and didn’t have as much KO ability as the other fighters I list.

6. Wladimir Klitschko: 64 – 5 with 53 KO; Little brother has the longest combined world championship reign in boxing history. The only reason he wasn’t # 5 is that Holyfield fought against a stronger field.

7. Larry Holmes: 69 – 6 with 44 KO: Reigned over the weakest era of heavyweight boxing since Joe Louis’ “Bum of the Month” era. He defended against a lot of ham eggers and for a good portion of that time, he should have been wearing a sports bra in the ring.

My list looks a lot like yours..

I'm not a fan of either Klitschko brother. They were really good fighters, but every time they were truly tested, they came up short, especially Wlad. Vitali was winning the Lewis fight before they stopped it based on that real bad cut over his eye, but, again, IMO, he didn't beat enough legitimate guys to be ranked THAT high.

I loved Riddick Bowe, but he didn't have the longevity I was hoping to see out of him. And it sucks that there is nobody else worth mentioning right now becuz everyone else was either a fraud or are too green in their careers to consider them ATG heavyweight champions.

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Believe.

Post #: 6

RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 10:41:29 AM

TJSweens

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Yeah, I thought ranking Vitali #3 would stir up a little conversation. You can make a very strong case to drop him below Tyson and Holyfield. I think they both definitely rank above Holmes though. Both dominated their eras with Vitali winning 91% of his fights by KO. His only losses were to Lewis, who he was beating despite having a cut that required 60 stitches to close and to Chris Byrd, who he was beating decisively when he tore his rotator cuff and couldn't continue.

I also completely forgot about Bowe. Nice catch on that one. His longevity wasn't THAT bad. He had 45 fights. I would insert him above Wladimir.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 7

RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 10:58:40 AM

twinsfan

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Joined: 12/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Here is my list of living heavyweight champions.

1. Big George Foreman: 76 – 5 with 68 KO; Holyfield, who fought Tyson and Lewis twice each, maintains to this day that the old, fat version of Foreman he fought to a 12-round decision was the hardest puncher he ever faced in his life. The young Foreman hit even harder. The only fighter I have ever seen drop an opponent with a body shot. He retired for the first time as he was just entering his prime at age 28 years and 66 days.

2. Lennox Lewis: 41 – 2 with 32 KO; Knocked out Tyson and beat Holyfield twice even though the first one was ruled a draw. TKO over Vitali Klitschko in his last fight.

3. Vitali Klitschko: 45 – 2 with 41 KO; Never knocked down in his career. Retired with the title at age 42 after a TKO win over future champion Manuel Charr.

4. Mike Tyson: 50 – 6 with 44 KO; Yeah, I get it, Holyfield beat him twice. That was the later career Tyson who had been badly mishandled by Don King and incarcerated following the death of Cus D’amato. I have no doubt a properly handled Tyson would have destroyed him.

5. Evander Holyfield: 44 – 10 with 29 KO; His career as a whole vs Tyson’s career, Holyfield suffered some really bad losses and didn’t have as much KO ability as the other fighters I list.

6. Wladimir Klitschko: 64 – 5 with 53 KO; Little brother has the longest combined world championship reign in boxing history. The only reason he wasn’t # 5 is that Holyfield fought against a stronger field.

7. Larry Holmes: 69 – 6 with 44 KO: Reigned over the weakest era of heavyweight boxing since Joe Louis’ “Bum of the Month” era. He defended against a lot of ham eggers and for a good portion of that time, he should have been wearing a sports bra in the ring.

I don't even know where to start, so I won't.

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Post #: 8

RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 11:01:57 AM

TJSweens

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You probably really don't know, so that's wise of you.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 9

RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 11:03:51 AM

twinsfan

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I would put Razor Ruddock above both Klitschko brothers. What do you guys think of that?

You guys are both underrating Holmes. He beat some real studs early in his career.

Just out of curiosity, where would you guys rank Tommy Morrison on this list if he was still alive?

< Message edited by twinsfan -- 1/4/2018 11:47:18 AM >

_____________________________

“We are an unserious nation that's in serious $hit.”

-Me

Post #: 10

RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 11:11:24 AM

twinsfan

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Do you guys remember the Virgil Hill/Thomas Hearns fight from 1990? I remember watching it on ABC; I believe it was an afternoon fight. Since Hill was calling Grand Forks his home at the time (only an hour from my hometown of Hallock), and I met him and got his autograph right around that time, I was fully invested in that fight. Unfortunately, I don't remember much about it anymore. I'm thinking it was a pretty close fight. It says Hearns won in a unanimous decision. Was it a controversial decision?

_____________________________

“We are an unserious nation that's in serious $hit.”

-Me

Post #: 11

RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 11:12:15 AM

twinsfan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

You probably really don't know, so that's wise of you.

You're just happy because you think you finally found something you know more about than I do.

_____________________________

“We are an unserious nation that's in serious $hit.”

-Me

Post #: 12

RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 11:21:04 AM

TJSweens

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Razor Ruddock? Not a chance. I wouldn't even put him ahead of Holmes. And Holmes did not beat any studs early in his career. His first fight of note was when he won a unanimous decision against an over the hill Ernie Shavers after being an under card fighter for 26 fights. He then beat Norton in a split decision for the title and settled into a long series of bums, has beens and never weres.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 13

RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 11:22:54 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 45014
Joined: 7/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

You probably really don't know, so that's wise of you.

You're just happy because you think you finally found something you know more about than I do.

Oh, Matt I know more than you about so many things. You just aren't smart enough to realize it.

< Message edited by TJSweens -- 1/4/2018 11:33:40 AM >

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"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 14

RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 11:25:17 AM

Ian Joseph

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From: Los Angeles, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Yeah, I thought ranking Vitali #3 would stir up a little conversation. You can make a very strong case to drop him below Tyson and Holyfield. I think they both definitely rank above Holmes though. Both dominated their eras with Vitali winning 91% of his fights by KO. His only losses were to Lewis, who he was beating despite having a cut that required 60 stitches to close and to Chris Byrd, who he was beating decisively when he tore his rotator cuff and couldn't continue.

I also completely forgot about Bowe. Nice catch on that one. His longevity wasn't THAT bad. He had 45 fights. I would insert him above Wladimir.

I guess I meant longevity as a champion and contender. His decline was rapid. He was never really the same after the 2nd Holyfield fight, though he won the rubber match. He took way too much leather - watch the Andrew Golota fights.

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RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 11:27:30 AM

Ian Joseph

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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

I would put Razor Ruddick above both Klitschko brothers. What do you guys think of that?

You guys are both underrating Holmes. He beat some real studs early in his career.

Just out of curiosity, where would you guys rank Tommy Morrison on this list if he was still alive?

Razor Rudduck didn't beat ANY of the ATG fighters. I only recall him going the distance against one, which was the 2nd Tyson fight, where Tyson broke his jaw in the fourth.

Lewis wiped his ass out in two rounds. I don't recall him fighting Holyfield.

Rudduck is right "up" there with Tommy Morrison.

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Post #: 16

RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 11:41:48 AM

twinsfan

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Shannon Briggs? Better or worse than Morrison?

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Post #: 17

RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 11:43:21 AM

TJSweens

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I'd probably put Morrison and Michael Moorer over Ruddock.

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"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 18

RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 11:51:52 AM

twinsfan

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Since you guys are so anti-Holmes, where's your love for Michael Spinks? He beat Holmes. Twice.

He lost once - the final fight of his career, to an in-his-prime Mike Tyson.

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“We are an unserious nation that's in serious $hit.”

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Post #: 19

RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 11:56:56 AM

TJSweens

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He won a split and unanimous decisions over a 37 year old, big boobed Larry Holmes. Besides, he didn't win any fights after age 32.

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Post #: 20

RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 12:17:37 PM

twinsfan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

He won a split and unanimous decisions over a 37 year old, big boobed Larry Holmes. Besides, he didn't win any fights after age 32.

I think it's cool I came up with a new thing.

_____________________________

“We are an unserious nation that's in serious $hit.”

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Post #: 21

RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 12:52:15 PM

Ian Joseph

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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Shannon Briggs? Better or worse than Morrison?

Worse. Way worse. He looked the part, but that's about it.

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RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 12:55:16 PM

Ian Joseph

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From: Los Angeles, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Since you guys are so anti-Holmes, where's your love for Michael Spinks? He beat Holmes. Twice.

He lost once - the final fight of his career, to an in-his-prime Mike Tyson.

I'm silent on Spinks. I didn't watch enough of him.

If I recall that fight correctly, the Tyson that beat Spinks would have beaten any heavyweight, regardless of era.

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Post #: 23

RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 2:54:45 PM

TJSweens

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I would strongly disagree with that. Foreman in his prime would have pummeled Tyson inside of 5.

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Post #: 24

RE: Boxing Talk - 1/4/2018 4:10:29 PM

Ian Joseph

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I would strongly disagree with that. Foreman in his prime would have pummeled Tyson inside of 5.

A fighting behind the jab Mike Tyson? I don't think George would have been able to hit him clean. Mike had good foot work way back in the day. George was stationary as hell, just a big ol clubber type dude.

It worked for that era. Wouldn't have against a mobile, agile and hostile dude with power.

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Enjoy the process; crave the goal.

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Post #: 25