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David Levine -> RE: Other NFL News (9/8/2016 5:05:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson I remember Bud Grant insisting that each Viking player stand at attention and be respectful to the flag. I long for the old days. Is it making the country better by us having a conversation about his issue? Not when he makes us mad through his "statement" of disrespect to the flag and to police officers. It's not helping. Sorry. Change only occurs when people get upset. Its part of the process.

kgdabom -> RE: Other NFL News (9/8/2016 5:09:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson I remember Bud Grant insisting that each Viking player stand at attention and be respectful to the flag. I long for the old days. Is it making the country better by us having a conversation about his issue? Not when he makes us mad through his "statement" of disrespect to the flag and to police officers. It's not helping. Sorry. Change only occurs when people get upset. Its part of the process. So should we always be upset no matter how good we got things comparatively?

bohumm -> RE: Other NFL News (9/8/2016 5:19:04 PM)
Well, at least we're not at the point where someone is pilloried because she didn't have the right expression on her face during the playing of the national anthem. Oh, wait.........

JTC2017 -> RE: Other NFL News (9/8/2016 5:28:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson I remember Bud Grant insisting that each Viking player stand at attention and be respectful to the flag. I long for the old days. Is it making the country better by us having a conversation about his issue? Not when he makes us mad through his "statement" of disrespect to the flag and to police officers. It's not helping. Sorry. Change only occurs when people get upset. Its part of the process. So should we always be upset no matter how good we got things comparatively? How good we have things? 20 years ago the average Black family had 1/10th the wealth of the avg White family Today it is 1/22nd! THis is what you don't get Things are not better And let's not pretend for one second racial relations were good during the Bud Grant era Just because you ignore something doesn't mean it is not there

JTC2017 -> RE: Other NFL News (9/8/2016 5:32:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: John Childress quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine You can love your country and still point out problems/suggest change. I mean the founding fathers did exactly that. MLK, Lincoln, and countless others have done exactly that. No problem with that at all. Point out all the problems you want, but what Kaepernick is doing is disrespecting our country. The PC thing to do is to disagree with him, but respect his opinion. Unless your opinion is that he is being disrespectful, then all bets are off. I believe that Kaep is disrespecting out country. I have no respect for his opinion. Back in the days that we were practicing separate, but supposedly equal he would have had a point. We as a country have really done everything within reason to combat racism. We may have even gone too far with hate crime laws. What more is there for us to do as a country? Kap is many things but how is protesting for a BETTER AMERICA disrespecting America? That makes no sense We have not even begun to do everything to combat racism when an outright racist like Trump is a nominee of a major party! Seriously We have a guy who based his campaign on racism, won, and you claim we are doing all we can? pure nonsense Kaepernick is not protesting for a better America. He is disrespecting America. Regarding Trump first I would need somebody to prove to me that Trump is a racist. A lot of people claim he is, but that doesn't mean anything. Next Trump hasn't won anything and I doubt if he will. We are so anti racist as a country that I think we are willing to vote for Hillary Clinton because we are afraid Trump is a racist. Trump has never held public office. If he has taken racist action he deserves to be held accountable by the law for his actions. He in no way represents America unless he is elected by the American public. Bullshit You can't make up your own reason why he is protesting when he clearly stated his reasons! Trump WAS nominated by the American public in the primary process and there is no question he is a racist Worse, look at the conditions in Black neighborhoods and schools It doesn't take much research to see how unequal things are today

Bruce Johnson -> RE: Other NFL News (9/8/2016 6:34:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson I remember Bud Grant insisting that each Viking player stand at attention and be respectful to the flag. I long for the old days. Is it making the country better by us having a conversation about his issue? Not when he makes us mad through his "statement" of disrespect to the flag and to police officers. It's not helping. Sorry. Change only occurs when people get upset. Its part of the process. That's what Karl Marx said- that progress only comes through conflict. By the way, communism is the anti-christ. What do I believe? That progress comes from people with mutual respect for each other who unite for the higher purpose. Right now, it seems as though everyone wants someone to sacrifice for them and that is the path to destruction. No wonder our nation is rapidly declining.

David Levine -> RE: Other NFL News (9/8/2016 6:46:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson I remember Bud Grant insisting that each Viking player stand at attention and be respectful to the flag. I long for the old days. Is it making the country better by us having a conversation about his issue? Not when he makes us mad through his "statement" of disrespect to the flag and to police officers. It's not helping. Sorry. Change only occurs when people get upset. Its part of the process. That's what Karl Marx said- that progress only comes through conflict. By the way, communism is the anti-christ. What do I believe? That progress comes from people with mutual respect for each other who unite for the higher purpose. Right now, it seems as though everyone wants someone to sacrifice for them and that is the path to destruction. No wonder our nation is rapidly declining. I'm sorry Bruce, but that's bullshit. Look at the entire history of our country. Major change pretty much always follows conflict and resolution. We wouldn't even have this country if it wasn't for conflict...

Brad H -> RE: Other NFL News (9/8/2016 6:50:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson I remember Bud Grant insisting that each Viking player stand at attention and be respectful to the flag. I long for the old days. Is it making the country better by us having a conversation about his issue? Not when he makes us mad through his "statement" of disrespect to the flag and to police officers. It's not helping. Sorry. Change only occurs when people get upset. Its part of the process. That's what Karl Marx said- that progress only comes through conflict. By the way, communism is the anti-christ. What do I believe? That progress comes from people with mutual respect for each other who unite for the higher purpose. Right now, it seems as though everyone wants someone to sacrifice for them and that is the path to destruction. No wonder our nation is rapidly declining. Rapidly declining? We have made great strides in the past eight years. Decline was what happened in the previous eight. As I said the day it happened, Kaepernick did a good thing in exorcising his rights. He attempted to bring consciousness to a mostly unconscious country.

Bruce Johnson -> RE: Other NFL News (9/8/2016 7:39:19 PM)
That is the way of the Left. When someone shares his heartfelt beliefs, they resort to saying "that is bullshit". I should have learned from before, but I keep thinking that one of these days you guys might open up your minds just a little bit. Anyway, I'll just talk about football again. Maybe I will learn my lesson this time. Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States where men were free. -- Ronald Reagan

David Levine -> RE: Other NFL News (9/8/2016 8:07:20 PM)
So conflict is communism, but Reagan says you need to fight... Ok then....

DavidAOlson -> RE: Other NFL News (9/8/2016 9:43:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson That is the way of the Left. When someone shares his heartfelt beliefs, they resort to saying "that is bullshit". ... Well, Bruce, when you deliberately insult someone as a Marxist, you probably shouldn't expect a cheerful response. Sounds like you're channeling Glenn Beck, who's got an infatuation with Marxist labeling. But wherever you got it, you're outside that bubble. Not sure how it's Marxist to comment that "You can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs." Or how it's Marxist to go through the second stage of the team building cycle: Forming, Storming, Norming, Performing. Business departments will probably be distraught to learn they've been filling the heads of young capitalists with Marxist ideals. The notion that conflict precedes change is widely shared. It's valuable. Sweeping it away, dismissing it as a Marxist idea, is begging for an outraged response, which you got. And then to follow it up with a gratuitous insult, as if you were completely innocent, is unbelievably naive.

David F. -> RE: Other NFL News (9/8/2016 9:44:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson That is the way of the Left. When someone shares his heartfelt beliefs, they resort to saying "that is bullshit". I should have learned from before, but I keep thinking that one of these days you guys might open up your minds just a little bit. Anyway, I'll just talk about football again. Maybe I will learn my lesson this time. Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States where men were free. -- Ronald Reagan I tried to look up the exact number and failed but I think roughly 100 countries have freedom.

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: Other NFL News (9/8/2016 9:54:40 PM)
im not a moderator.. but i play one in my head... we have threads for the "political side" of this Keapernick drama queenism.. I understand his reasoning behind his "statement" and i defend his right to do it any way he pleases.. and A bronco did the exact same thing tonight during the national anthem.. big deal... It is not disrespect.. it is exercising his RIGHTS as a citizen to FREE SPEECH in PUBLIC. get over it.

DavidAOlson -> RE: Other NFL News (9/8/2016 10:05:57 PM)
Moving back to the actual NFL protest: momentum continues to build. Brandon Marshall took a knee. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/broncos-brandon-marshall-kneels-during-national-anthem-in-nfl-opener/ Seattle appears to be planning something as a team. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/seattle-seahawks-national-anthem-protest_us_57d1b856e4b00642712c6b12 Not much doubt left: Kap's kneel down is going viral.

Mark Anderson -> RE: Other NFL News (9/8/2016 11:28:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson Moving back to the actual NFL protest: momentum continues to build. Brandon Marshall took a knee. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/broncos-brandon-marshall-kneels-during-national-anthem-in-nfl-opener/ Seattle appears to be planning something as a team. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/seattle-seahawks-national-anthem-protest_us_57d1b856e4b00642712c6b12 Not much doubt left: Kap's kneel down is going viral. Score tonight: Saluting Flag: 60,000+ Non-saluting that we know of: 1

JT2 -> RE: Other NFL News (9/8/2016 11:31:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson Moving back to the actual NFL protest: momentum continues to build. Brandon Marshall took a knee. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/broncos-brandon-marshall-kneels-during-national-anthem-in-nfl-opener/ Seattle appears to be planning something as a team. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/seattle-seahawks-national-anthem-protest_us_57d1b856e4b00642712c6b12 Not much doubt left: Kap's kneel down is going viral. Score tonight: Saluting Flag: 60,000+ Non-saluting that we know of: 1 At one time, slavery could claim even higher numbers.

thebigo -> RE: Other NFL News (9/9/2016 12:08:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson Moving back to the actual NFL protest: momentum continues to build. Brandon Marshall took a knee. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/broncos-brandon-marshall-kneels-during-national-anthem-in-nfl-opener/ Seattle appears to be planning something as a team. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/seattle-seahawks-national-anthem-protest_us_57d1b856e4b00642712c6b12 Not much doubt left: Kap's kneel down is going viral. If the Vikes plan something, I'll be booing them.

kgdabom -> RE: Other NFL News (9/9/2016 12:09:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JTC2017 quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson I remember Bud Grant insisting that each Viking player stand at attention and be respectful to the flag. I long for the old days. Is it making the country better by us having a conversation about his issue? Not when he makes us mad through his "statement" of disrespect to the flag and to police officers. It's not helping. Sorry. Change only occurs when people get upset. Its part of the process. So should we always be upset no matter how good we got things comparatively? How good we have things? 20 years ago the average Black family had 1/10th the wealth of the avg White family Today it is 1/22nd! THis is what you don't get Things are not better And let's not pretend for one second racial relations were good during the Bud Grant era Just because you ignore something doesn't mean it is not there I'm not sure about your statistics JC. All I know is our country is absolutely against racism. Not to say racism doesn't exist, but our country is against it.

kgdabom -> RE: Other NFL News (9/9/2016 12:17:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JTC2017 quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: John Childress quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine You can love your country and still point out problems/suggest change. I mean the founding fathers did exactly that. MLK, Lincoln, and countless others have done exactly that. No problem with that at all. Point out all the problems you want, but what Kaepernick is doing is disrespecting our country. The PC thing to do is to disagree with him, but respect his opinion. Unless your opinion is that he is being disrespectful, then all bets are off. I believe that Kaep is disrespecting out country. I have no respect for his opinion. Back in the days that we were practicing separate, but supposedly equal he would have had a point. We as a country have really done everything within reason to combat racism. We may have even gone too far with hate crime laws. What more is there for us to do as a country? Kap is many things but how is protesting for a BETTER AMERICA disrespecting America? That makes no sense We have not even begun to do everything to combat racism when an outright racist like Trump is a nominee of a major party! Seriously We have a guy who based his campaign on racism, won, and you claim we are doing all we can? pure nonsense Kaepernick is not protesting for a better America. He is disrespecting America. Regarding Trump first I would need somebody to prove to me that Trump is a racist. A lot of people claim he is, but that doesn't mean anything. Next Trump hasn't won anything and I doubt if he will. We are so anti racist as a country that I think we are willing to vote for Hillary Clinton because we are afraid Trump is a racist. Trump has never held public office. If he has taken racist action he deserves to be held accountable by the law for his actions. He in no way represents America unless he is elected by the American public. Bullshit You can't make up your own reason why he is protesting when he clearly stated his reasons! Trump WAS nominated by the American public in the primary process and there is no question he is a racist Worse, look at the conditions in Black neighborhoods and schools It doesn't take much research to see how unequal things are today My understanding of Kaep's protest is that we are a racist oppressive nation to people of color. Is that wrong? I don't believe there is any truth to that and disrespecting our national anthem is disrespecting our country. What is the proof that Trump is a racist? If there was actual proof I don't buy that he would be getting support. People like to label people and make claims. As for bad conditions in Black neighborhoods and schools what is the solution?

thebigo -> RE: Other NFL News (9/9/2016 12:21:22 AM)
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kgdabom -> RE: Other NFL News (9/9/2016 12:24:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: JTC2017 quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson I remember Bud Grant insisting that each Viking player stand at attention and be respectful to the flag. I long for the old days. Is it making the country better by us having a conversation about his issue? Not when he makes us mad through his "statement" of disrespect to the flag and to police officers. It's not helping. Sorry. Change only occurs when people get upset. Its part of the process. So should we always be upset no matter how good we got things comparatively? How good we have things? 20 years ago the average Black family had 1/10th the wealth of the avg White family Today it is 1/22nd! THis is what you don't get Things are not better And let's not pretend for one second racial relations were good during the Bud Grant era Just because you ignore something doesn't mean it is not there I'm not sure about your statistics JC. All I know is our country is absolutely against racism. Not to say racism doesn't exist, but our country is against it. The US Census Bureau also provides a breakdown by self-identified ethnic groups as follows (as of March 2014): Mean Household Income by Ethnicity[26] Ethnic Category Mean Household Income Asian alone $90,752 White alone $79,340 Hispanic or Latino $54,644 Black $49,629 U.S. Census Bureau So it's actually 8:5 Closer than most of JCs stat though. My household is White/Asian with just a little Native American. Income of $40,000. I'm not complaining.

DavidAOlson -> RE: Other NFL News (9/9/2016 7:42:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom ... My understanding of Kaep's protest is that we are a racist oppressive nation to people of color. Is that wrong? Yes. quote: What is the proof that Trump is a racist? If there was actual proof I don't buy that he would be getting support. ... There's a huge trail, going back at least as far as refusal to rent to black people in the 70's. It's not even remotely challenging to find example after example. Public testimony about American Indians, etc. As far as political support, there's been huge amounts of political science research showing that they factor that explains support for Trump is "white resentment" politics. And I can't believe you missed his broad characterization of Mexican immigrants as "rapists and murderers," which led off his campaign. It's been a steady stream ever since.

joejitsu -> RE: Other NFL News (9/9/2016 7:51:52 AM)
In other NFL news...There's going to be games played on Sunday. A whole lot of games. I'm going to finish my coffee now.

kgdabom -> RE: Other NFL News (9/9/2016 8:28:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom ... My understanding of Kaep's protest is that we are a racist oppressive nation to people of color. Is that wrong? Yes. quote: What is the proof that Trump is a racist? If there was actual proof I don't buy that he would be getting support. ... There's a huge trail, going back at least as far as refusal to rent to black people in the 70's. It's not even remotely challenging to find example after example. Public testimony about American Indians, etc. As far as political support, there's been huge amounts of political science research showing that they factor that explains support for Trump is "white resentment" politics. And I can't believe you missed his broad characterization of Mexican immigrants as "racists and murderers," which led off his campaign. It's been a steady stream ever since. OK what is Kaepernick's stance. I read his words stating that America is an oppressive nation to people of color, but that is NOT his stance?? Maybe his stance was misrepresented by the media, but I do know that not standing for our anthem is disrespecting our nation. What is the truth. I read JC's claim that the average white family has 22 times the wealth of the average Black family then I read Bigo qiving census figures that it's 8-5. I don't trust that much of anyone really wants the truth. I know how politics work and it's dirty. That is why when people make racist claims I don't believe them. I'm done commenting on Kaep and Trump or Clinton. Back to football only.

Mark Anderson -> RE: Other NFL News (9/9/2016 8:43:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JT2 quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson Moving back to the actual NFL protest: momentum continues to build. Brandon Marshall took a knee. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/broncos-brandon-marshall-kneels-during-national-anthem-in-nfl-opener/ Seattle appears to be planning something as a team. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/seattle-seahawks-national-anthem-protest_us_57d1b856e4b00642712c6b12 Not much doubt left: Kap's kneel down is going viral. Score tonight: Saluting Flag: 60,000+ Non-saluting that we know of: 1 At one time, slavery could claim even higher numbers. yes. at one time. Now. You can become President. You can be a top executive at a corporation. You can be a Fortune 500 member. You can play a game and set up your next 4 generations to have the best education and quality of life possible.

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