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Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/30/2019 4:31:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

What you seen was a guy deserving of being the 32nd ranked center in the league.

If your satisfied with that more power to you.

I am not satisfied with the way Elflein played last season.

I stated that but go ahead and ignore it.




Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/30/2019 4:41:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I'm starting to be swayed into hoping the Vikings select Bradbury or McCoy in the draft and then enabling a competition at the center position. I don't think either will be still there at #50, though.

It's odd that they've discussed moving Reiff (who has no G experience) to G but not Elflein (who has G experience).

Maybe they really do like Elflein at C better than G.

Or maybe it's just a smokescreen ... to try and misdirect away from wanting to draft C (by trying to fill OT and OG).




Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/30/2019 5:16:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

What you seen was a guy deserving of being the 32nd ranked center in the league.

If your satisfied with that more power to you.

I am not satisfied with the way Elflein played last season.

I stated that but go ahead and ignore it.

Ford and Jordan and we have competition at every position.




bohumm -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/30/2019 8:10:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I'm starting to be swayed into hoping the Vikings select Bradbury or McCoy in the draft and then enabling a competition at the center position. I don't think either will be still there at #50, though.

It's odd that they've discussed moving Reiff (who has no G experience) to G but not Elflein (who has G experience).

Maybe they really do like Elflein at C better than G.

Or maybe it's just a smokescreen ... to try and misdirect away from wanting to draft C (by trying to fill OT and OG).

I want Bradbury, but I get the thinking that a high-value LT is a better get at 18 than a high-value C/G. That said, as you imply, we have no idea what they really think of any guys, both in the draft and on the roster.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/31/2019 7:01:00 AM)

The gap between the first center and the second (McCoy) seems like not too much. It makes trading back a safer idea if center is identified as the greatest need. The other option is to trade up from the second pick. Anyway, it seems that there are a lot of options for our team at #18. From what I'm reading, Hockenson is moving up the draft and will not be available for us. I prefer an o-lineman anyway, but if he was still there, perhaps because of a run on quarterbacks, the team might be tempted to pull the trigger on that and then move up in the second to secure a center.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/31/2019 1:44:36 PM)

"They" say the new thing is quick, strong DTs. If that does become a trend, we will need an athletic interior OL. No more skating on ice.

In that vein, Bradbury is the clear choice over McCoy. Perhaps Jenkins is the perfect blend of the two.

Jenkins in the second with maybe a small trade up. Ford at 18. Elf to battle at guard.

Reiff/X
Ford (14 starts at RT, 7 at LG)/Isadora
Jenkins
Kline/Elf
O'Neill/Hill




Jason Dorn -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/31/2019 3:40:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I think Rag has a solid point regarding Zim should "look in the mirror"

Many of his game plans are not good nor do I see smart in game adjustments.

When your team comes out flat in a 'play in game" at home nonetheless. QB and top WR arguing on the sideline and many players only putting in a minimal effort suggests Zim has lost their ear.

Calling guys out (even if deserved) doesn't appear to be going over very well.



i'm not a zimmer lover, but i think that zimmer knows exactly who he is as a coach...he recognizes his own deficiencies...he doesn't fluff people up, just as he doesn't fluff himself up....

they've been talking a lot about money and the salary cap in the front office lately - so, with that in mind he perhaps went a little too far...it is what it is, and i'd bet that it does motivate rhodes to play better....


Hard to imagine the players don't respect a guy who is willing to risk blindness rather than take a day off from coaching. Zimmer himself said a Super Bowl victory is more important to him than the sight in that eye.


Well what's holding him back then? Go get that Super Bowl. It's entirely within his control. It's not about 'risking blindness' it's about coaching a team to a title. It requires more than just desire.



Easy inconsistent offense and a horrible kicking game. When the Vikings run the ball effectively they are 24-8 with a NFCCG appearance and who knows about 2015 without the Walsh shank. The defense frankly, no pun intended David, you can hang your hat on. Top ten in PPG the last 4 years and 11th the first year turning around the 32nd ranked scoring defense from the year prior. Going with Carlson was brutal move over Forbath-was that a Zimmer or Spielman? Then again maybe we find out how correct you were all along about the ST coach and kickers. Be nice to feel confident that the guy with the game on the line is gonna make it.

Last year it was not the passing attack but a 31st ranked rushing offense dropping from 7th. In 2016 the rushing offense was 32nd dropping from 4th the year before. Both those seasons were some missed kicks away from the playoffs.

Finally the Bridgewater injury was a terrible blow setting the team back again at the critical position. Forced to give up a 1st round pick for Sammy B- whose knees finally gave out- after his best game as a Viking. Teddy was getting better and by most accounts a beloved leader.

Maybe the Vikings and Zimmer will finally get the offense right. Maybe Stefanki combined with an actual mentor in Kubiak do get the job done. Too bad Flip did not have a Kubiak or Sporano as Zimmer is not the guy to mentor a younger innovative offensive mind. No matter what finishing dead last running the ball will not get it done.

It's easy to blame the Ol or Kirk or Zimmer but the injuries took their toll on the interior of the OL. The inability to run the ball was crippling and Zimmer frustration boiled over. Seattle was a winnable game against a playoff team on the road. The offense squandered opportunities in Chicago. Buffalo was flat out embarrassing by the entire team but the offense was shut out and turnovers led to points against. The defense got schooled in LA and was marginal at NE, Chi at home, and NO at home. Lost to both SB teams on the road. Missed playoffs because of 3 missed FGs and a punt block for a TD in GB.

In 2018 Losses offense avg ppg was 14.9 with 3 TDs scored after game was decided against Buff, NO, Sea taking that number down to 12PPG. The defense gave up 27ppg less 22 for 2 pick 6's and fumble return for TD taking the number to 24.

In 2018 W's offense scored 28.4 less two defensive scores by defense is 26.6. Defense gave up 15.4ppg less 1 pick 6 and fumble return for TDs is 13.6. No meaningless TDs against.

Coach Zimmer must find consistent offense next season as another 9-7 or worse will in all probability spell curtains for the Head Coach.

His formula has been successful but falls short without a running game. Boring perhaps but when done correctly it has yielded two very good seasons. 8 of the top 11 rush offenses made the playoffs last year. SD, KC, Indy, Philly were 15, 16, 20, 28. Vikes were a missed 35 yd FG from qualifying with the 31st. 9 of the top 11 rush defenses made the playoffs. Sea, Rams and KC were 13, 23, 27. Vikes finished 15th in rush defense.

Offense must improve rushing attack , TOP, 3rd down conversions and of course turnovers. Defense needs to get better at rush defense, less penalties and creating more turnovers. Special teams needs to improve the kicking game plus return game.




David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/31/2019 5:14:16 PM)

I posted a little while ago citing similar stats in wins vs losses but instead used vs winning teams or losing teams. With the exception of Philadelphia- zimmer didn’t beat a winning team last year.




Jason Dorn -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/31/2019 7:22:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I posted a little while ago citing similar stats in wins vs losses but instead used vs winning teams or losing teams. With the exception of Philadelphia- zimmer didn’t beat a winning team last year.


Ok the Vikings won versus NO, Balt, Rams, Atl and Detroit the year before with Case Keenum as QB. Does Zimmer get credit for those or just blame for this season. The same can be said regarding Kirk Cousins about success versus winning teams. You don't get your cake and eat it too. Does Cousins have any accountability for this season or was it all just a Mike Zimmer failure?




Jason Dorn -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/31/2019 7:28:36 PM)

https://www.facebook.com/SportsCenter/videos/one-big-thing/2285560864841253/

Interesting take by Steve Sanford about Izzo and the reaction to him yelling at players.




thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/31/2019 7:31:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Dorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I think Rag has a solid point regarding Zim should "look in the mirror"

Many of his game plans are not good nor do I see smart in game adjustments.

When your team comes out flat in a 'play in game" at home nonetheless. QB and top WR arguing on the sideline and many players only putting in a minimal effort suggests Zim has lost their ear.

Calling guys out (even if deserved) doesn't appear to be going over very well.



i'm not a zimmer lover, but i think that zimmer knows exactly who he is as a coach...he recognizes his own deficiencies...he doesn't fluff people up, just as he doesn't fluff himself up....

they've been talking a lot about money and the salary cap in the front office lately - so, with that in mind he perhaps went a little too far...it is what it is, and i'd bet that it does motivate rhodes to play better....


Hard to imagine the players don't respect a guy who is willing to risk blindness rather than take a day off from coaching. Zimmer himself said a Super Bowl victory is more important to him than the sight in that eye.


Well what's holding him back then? Go get that Super Bowl. It's entirely within his control. It's not about 'risking blindness' it's about coaching a team to a title. It requires more than just desire.



Easy inconsistent offense and a horrible kicking game. When the Vikings run the ball effectively they are 24-8 with a NFCCG appearance and who knows about 2015 without the Walsh shank. The defense frankly, no pun intended David, you can hang your hat on. Top ten in PPG the last 4 years and 11th the first year turning around the 32nd ranked scoring defense from the year prior. Going with Carlson was brutal move over Forbath-was that a Zimmer or Spielman? Then again maybe we find out how correct you were all along about the ST coach and kickers. Be nice to feel confident that the guy with the game on the line is gonna make it.

Last year it was not the passing attack but a 31st ranked rushing offense dropping from 7th. In 2016 the rushing offense was 32nd dropping from 4th the year before. Both those seasons were some missed kicks away from the playoffs.

Finally the Bridgewater injury was a terrible blow setting the team back again at the critical position. Forced to give up a 1st round pick for Sammy B- whose knees finally gave out- after his best game as a Viking. Teddy was getting better and by most accounts a beloved leader.

Maybe the Vikings and Zimmer will finally get the offense right. Maybe Stefanki combined with an actual mentor in Kubiak do get the job done. Too bad Flip did not have a Kubiak or Sporano as Zimmer is not the guy to mentor a younger innovative offensive mind. No matter what finishing dead last running the ball will not get it done.

It's easy to blame the Ol or Kirk or Zimmer but the injuries took their toll on the interior of the OL. The inability to run the ball was crippling and Zimmer frustration boiled over. Seattle was a winnable game against a playoff team on the road. The offense squandered opportunities in Chicago. Buffalo was flat out embarrassing by the entire team but the offense was shut out and turnovers led to points against. The defense got schooled in LA and was marginal at NE, Chi at home, and NO at home. Lost to both SB teams on the road. Missed playoffs because of 3 missed FGs and a punt block for a TD in GB.

In 2018 Losses offense avg ppg was 14.9 with 3 TDs scored after game was decided against Buff, NO, Sea taking that number down to 12PPG. The defense gave up 27ppg less 22 for 2 pick 6's and fumble return for TD taking the number to 24.

In 2018 W's offense scored 28.4 less two defensive scores by defense is 26.6. Defense gave up 15.4ppg less 1 pick 6 and fumble return for TDs is 13.6. No meaningless TDs against.

Coach Zimmer must find consistent offense next season as another 9-7 or worse will in all probability spell curtains for the Head Coach.

His formula has been successful but falls short without a running game. Boring perhaps but when done correctly it has yielded two very good seasons. 8 of the top 11 rush offenses made the playoffs last year. SD, KC, Indy, Philly were 15, 16, 20, 28. Vikes were a missed 35 yd FG from qualifying with the 31st. 9 of the top 11 rush defenses made the playoffs. Sea, Rams and KC were 13, 23, 27. Vikes finished 15th in rush defense.

Offense must improve rushing attack , TOP, 3rd down conversions and of course turnovers. Defense needs to get better at rush defense, less penalties and creating more turnovers. Special teams needs to improve the kicking game plus return game.


Damn JD. you kickin' ass!

DF, not so much.




David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/31/2019 7:39:52 PM)

Why does it have to be about kicking ass? I thought I was bolstering jason’s point.




David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/31/2019 7:41:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Dorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I posted a little while ago citing similar stats in wins vs losses but instead used vs winning teams or losing teams. With the exception of Philadelphia- zimmer didn’t beat a winning team last year.


Ok the Vikings won versus NO, Balt, Rams, Atl and Detroit the year before with Case Keenum as QB. Does Zimmer get credit for those or just blame for this season. The same can be said regarding Kirk Cousins about success versus winning teams. You don't get your cake and eat it too. Does Cousins have any accountability for this season or was it all just a Mike Zimmer failure?


My post had no opinion at all and drew no inferences of blame. It’s just a straight up fact.




Jason Dorn -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/31/2019 7:48:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Dorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I posted a little while ago citing similar stats in wins vs losses but instead used vs winning teams or losing teams. With the exception of Philadelphia- zimmer didn’t beat a winning team last year.


Ok the Vikings won versus NO, Balt, Rams, Atl and Detroit the year before with Case Keenum as QB. Does Zimmer get credit for those or just blame for this season. The same can be said regarding Kirk Cousins about success versus winning teams. You don't get your cake and eat it too. Does Cousins have any accountability for this season or was it all just a Mike Zimmer failure?


My post had no opinion at all and drew no inferences of blame. It’s just a straight up fact.



Then why phrase it ... "Zimmer did not beat a winning team with the exception of Philadelphia" rather than the Vikings were unable to win games against teams with winning records? 2017 record is also a straight up fact.




thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/31/2019 8:05:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Dorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Dorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I posted a little while ago citing similar stats in wins vs losses but instead used vs winning teams or losing teams. With the exception of Philadelphia- zimmer didn’t beat a winning team last year.


Ok the Vikings won versus NO, Balt, Rams, Atl and Detroit the year before with Case Keenum as QB. Does Zimmer get credit for those or just blame for this season. The same can be said regarding Kirk Cousins about success versus winning teams. You don't get your cake and eat it too. Does Cousins have any accountability for this season or was it all just a Mike Zimmer failure?


My post had no opinion at all and drew no inferences of blame. It’s just a straight up fact.



Then why phrase it ... "Zimmer did not beat a winning team with the exception of Philadelphia" rather than the Vikings were unable to win games against teams with winning records? 2017 record is also a straight up fact.


Damn JD. you kickin' ass!

DF, not so much.




David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/31/2019 10:27:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Dorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Dorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I posted a little while ago citing similar stats in wins vs losses but instead used vs winning teams or losing teams. With the exception of Philadelphia- zimmer didn’t beat a winning team last year.


Ok the Vikings won versus NO, Balt, Rams, Atl and Detroit the year before with Case Keenum as QB. Does Zimmer get credit for those or just blame for this season. The same can be said regarding Kirk Cousins about success versus winning teams. You don't get your cake and eat it too. Does Cousins have any accountability for this season or was it all just a Mike Zimmer failure?


My post had no opinion at all and drew no inferences of blame. It’s just a straight up fact.



Then why phrase it ... "Zimmer did not beat a winning team with the exception of Philadelphia" rather than the Vikings were unable to win games against teams with winning records? 2017 record is also a straight up fact.


Because I believe our roster was good enough to make the playoffs and at least advance once.




Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/1/2019 7:03:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Dorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I posted a little while ago citing similar stats in wins vs losses but instead used vs winning teams or losing teams. With the exception of Philadelphia- zimmer didn’t beat a winning team last year.


Ok the Vikings won versus NO, Balt, Rams, Atl and Detroit the year before with Case Keenum as QB. Does Zimmer get credit for those or just blame for this season. The same can be said regarding Kirk Cousins about success versus winning teams. You don't get your cake and eat it too. Does Cousins have any accountability for this season or was it all just a Mike Zimmer failure?

Points toward a downward trajectory




Jason Dorn -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/1/2019 1:10:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Dorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I posted a little while ago citing similar stats in wins vs losses but instead used vs winning teams or losing teams. With the exception of Philadelphia- zimmer didn’t beat a winning team last year.


Ok the Vikings won versus NO, Balt, Rams, Atl and Detroit the year before with Case Keenum as QB. Does Zimmer get credit for those or just blame for this season. The same can be said regarding Kirk Cousins about success versus winning teams. You don't get your cake and eat it too. Does Cousins have any accountability for this season or was it all just a Mike Zimmer failure?


Points toward a downward trajectory


Ok. 0-0 at the moment. Will see. Skol Vikes. I believe you will be proven wrong - fair enough?




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/1/2019 4:57:00 PM)

Available roster spots with an eye on the draft:

G - starter
OL - depends if we carry nine or ten (Collins plus a Newcomer?)
3 WR - a "starter" for 3 wide formations
DT - battle for starter and two backups; pick three from Newcomer / Stephen / Holmes / JJ
LB - backup, pick one from Mata'afa / Downs
CB - if carry six, pick one backup from Newcomer / James
S - backup
QB - backup




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/1/2019 4:58:17 PM)

So if we are looking just at starters (nickel formation), we need:

G
3 WR
DT




Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/1/2019 9:49:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

So if we are looking just at starters (nickel formation), we need:

G
3 WR
DT

Early round preference between closely ranked players
1-OG
2-TE
3-DT




ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/2/2019 9:39:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

So if we are looking just at starters (nickel formation), we need:

G
3 WR
DT

Early round preference between closely ranked players
1-OG
2-TE
3-DT




we need to select a tight end within the first two rounds - vastly improves our quality and helps get rudy's salary off the books....

i'd accept rudolph staying with the team at about $3m on a one year deal, but i still think we need a new starter....

rookie/cheap rudy/morgan...conklyn to the practice squad....




SoMnFan -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/2/2019 10:15:53 AM)

Post-FA Power Rankings by ESPN
Yikes ….



15. Minnesota Vikings
2018 record: 8-7-1
Three-words-or-less description: Strapped for cash. Financial restrictions pertaining to the salary cap made things difficult for the Vikings in free agency. Minnesota wasn't nearly as active as it wanted to be, especially in replacing all the parts that departed along the offensive line, and was forced to make either/or decisions with the personnel it retained and let go. Defense was prioritized, with the Vikings ponying up the funds to retain linebacker Anthony Barr and defensive end Everson Griffen, which means adding pieces around quarterback Kirk Cousins will have to come via the draft. -- Courtney Cronin




Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/2/2019 10:28:09 AM)

Sounds about right.

If we could get some kind of a consistent running game so are defense isn't on the field so much it would improve our chances.

Presently, I really don't like the direction we're headed. Unless Kubiak/Stefanski somehow are wizards and slick Rick actually addresses the oline properly in the draft we are just spinning the tires.




Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/2/2019 10:40:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Post-FA Power Rankings by ESPN
Yikes ….



15. Minnesota Vikings
2018 record: 8-7-1
Three-words-or-less description: Strapped for cash. Financial restrictions pertaining to the salary cap made things difficult for the Vikings in free agency. Minnesota wasn't nearly as active as it wanted to be, especially in replacing all the parts that departed along the offensive line, and was forced to make either/or decisions with the personnel it retained and let go. Defense was prioritized, with the Vikings ponying up the funds to retain linebacker Anthony Barr and defensive end Everson Griffen, which means adding pieces around quarterback Kirk Cousins will have to come via the draft. -- Courtney Cronin


We really ponied up to retain Griffith.[&o]

Lost Easton. Dropped Remmers but signed Kline, we’ll see how that turns out.

Courtney should have stopped at, ‘had no money, made no significant additions. Really bland offseason so far.’




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