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Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/12/2019 4:52:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hrerikl

quote:




@billbarnwell

More
Absolutely no issue with giving Adam Thielen a new deal, of course, but the Vikings are now paying two WR’s $30+ million per season, their QB $28 million per season, and their head coach wants them to run the ball more



On the surface it seems absurd. But in the end I think it comes down to having a successful running game so when the going gets tough it's something that can keep us in or win games. Time and time again we see high powered offenses stall out when they are more one dimensional.



Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/12/2019 5:05:34 PM)

Everything about this team save for the OL is as good as it's been for a long time.

I still stand by the thought that there are many many eyes on the prize and enough coaching/scouting talent to shake 2 guys that can start loose from the draft/what comes available in and around it.



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/12/2019 6:03:44 PM)

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.



Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/12/2019 6:56:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.

Brez must have it figured out. He's(Thielen) probably getting a big chunk of it next year.

- Cap goes up every year

- 2 of these 4 are probably gone in 2020 (Reiff, Waynes, Rhodes, Griffen)

- Last year base salary usually means nothing(either cut or re-structured)



thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/12/2019 6:58:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.


Brezinski is our cap guy.



kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/12/2019 6:59:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.

We still get Thielen for practically free the next two years. If his production goes down how is the contract structured? Will we take on a lot of dead cap for example if we cut him before the last two years?



Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/13/2019 12:15:49 AM)

Where are the Vikings now with regard to cap money for 2019? I imagine they have enough for the rookies and perhaps some in case there are injuries to the team and cheaper free agents must be brought in. Is that about it, or do we have a little bit more for another free agent or two to compete in training camp. (perhaps at wide receiver or running back)



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/13/2019 7:24:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.


Brezinski is our cap guy.

And he takes his orders from Spielman.



thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/13/2019 8:57:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.


Brezinski is our cap guy.

And he takes his orders from Spielman.


Here's the thing. In the NFL, you have to pay the players. Quality players = quality money. Ain't no way around that. Spielman can't do anything about that. So it's up to Brezinski to finagle the salary cap, push money to years where there is salary cap room etc. You could also argue that Spielman takes his orders from Zimmer in terms of player acquisition/retainment, ergo Brezinski takes his orders from Zimmer, extending your logic.



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/13/2019 9:13:08 AM)

Might be a team friendly ext similar to Griffins. Where there is no additional guaranteed money once it kicks in.

No point in arguing about it until the financial details are released.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/13/2019 9:50:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Where are the Vikings now with regard to cap money for 2019? I imagine they have enough for the rookies and perhaps some in case there are injuries to the team and cheaper free agents must be brought in. Is that about it, or do we have a little bit more for another free agent or two to compete in training camp. (perhaps at wide receiver or running back)


Assuming we have the max allotment of 90 players in camp, only the top 51 salaries count against the cap. That policy has been in place since 2012. And of course the contracts are contingent on the player making the team.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/13/2019 9:54:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.


Scenario is we go into salary cap hell and Brzez (FYI, he is our money guy) is fired. Brzez interviews for a job.

Team: What assurances are there that we won't go into cap hell.
Brzez: Wasn't my fault. Spielman kept mortgaging our future.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/13/2019 9:56:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.


Brezinski is our cap guy.

And he takes his orders from Spielman.


Here's the thing. In the NFL, you have to pay the players. Quality players = quality money. Ain't no way around that. Spielman can't do anything about that. So it's up to Brezinski to finagle the salary cap, push money to years where there is salary cap room etc. You could also argue that Spielman takes his orders from Zimmer in terms of player acquisition/retainment, ergo Brezinski takes his orders from Zimmer, extending your logic.



So you're saying the Triangle of Authority is alive and well.



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/13/2019 10:03:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.


Scenario is we go into salary cap hell and Brzez (FYI, he is our money guy) is fired. Brzez interviews for a job.

Team: What assurances are there that we won't go into cap hell.
Brzez: Wasn't my fault. Spielman kept mortgaging our future.

Exactly. Brez is just the accountant/capalogist. He isn't deciding whom to extend.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/13/2019 10:16:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.


Scenario is we go into salary cap hell and Brzez (FYI, he is our money guy) is fired. Brzez interviews for a job.

Team: What assurances are there that we won't go into cap hell.
Brzez: Wasn't my fault. Spielman kept mortgaging our future.

Exactly. Brez is just the accountant/capalogist. He isn't deciding whom to extend.



Uh, no. Your issue was "another back loaded contract" which apparently are mortgaging our future, although admittedly you want to wait the see the contract details before arguing the point.

In any case, that would be BRZEZ. Contract terms. Key role of the capologist. Looks like you really don't understand this.

Searching here... maybe you don't think AT's new contract is warranted? Oh, no I see you wrote that he deserved it.



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/13/2019 10:24:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.


Scenario is we go into salary cap hell and Brzez (FYI, he is our money guy) is fired. Brzez interviews for a job.

Team: What assurances are there that we won't go into cap hell.
Brzez: Wasn't my fault. Spielman kept mortgaging our future.

Exactly. Brez is just the accountant/capalogist. He isn't deciding whom to extend.



Your issue was "another back loaded contract" which apparently are mortgaging our future, although admittedly you want to wait the see the contract details before arguing the point. In any case, that would be BRZEZ.

Spielman says he wants to extend a player and tells Brez to get it done.

Brez presents his numbers and Spielman executes the deal. I'm sure Brez makes Spielman aware that this will bite us in the ass later.

Point being Spielman is in charge. Not Brez.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/13/2019 10:40:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.


Scenario is we go into salary cap hell and Brzez (FYI, he is our money guy) is fired. Brzez interviews for a job.

Team: What assurances are there that we won't go into cap hell.
Brzez: Wasn't my fault. Spielman kept mortgaging our future.

Exactly. Brez is just the accountant/capalogist. He isn't deciding whom to extend.



Your issue was "another back loaded contract" which apparently are mortgaging our future, although admittedly you want to wait the see the contract details before arguing the point. In any case, that would be BRZEZ.

Spielman says he wants to extend a player and tells Brez to get it done.

Brez presents his numbers and Spielman executes the deal. I'm sure Brez makes Spielman aware that this will bite us in the ass later.

Point being Spielman is in charge. Not Brez.



Okay, so Spielman essentially approves the deal. Your beef (at least here) is another presumed back-loaded contract mortgaging our future.

What should Spielman do? Not approve the deal? Tell Brzez to front load the deal even though we have no cap space?

Brzez (IMO) is among the best in the business. Unless Spielman overrides him and tells him to rework contracts, how is this Spielman's fault except in the general "the buck stops here" sense? Presuming of course they want to keep the players they are trying to sign, or do right by them.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/13/2019 10:51:43 AM)

Besides, it's easy to see so many high-dollar contracts over time (Smith, Rhodes, Joseph, Kendricks, Hunter, Diggs, Cousins, Barr, etc) and simply proclaim "our future is mortgaged".

Well here is a newsflash: the future is now. When most of these contracts were done, the future was, again.... pointed to now.

And at the time, the overwhelming concern on the board was whether we could pay all the mainstays. Last time I checked, they are all on the team.

Enjoy the possibility of the present and worry about the 'next future' later. And when you do worry later, go on SpotTrac and back up your 'we are doomed' claims with facts. My guess is a new influx of talent will be a bigger issue than cap space.



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/13/2019 10:57:27 AM)

Ian Rapoport reported Thielen will receive a guaranteed $35 million.

Theilen will be 30 when deal kicks in. So we better hope he ages well.

Details of how the money is doled out are not in yet.



thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/13/2019 11:31:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.


Brezinski is our cap guy.

And he takes his orders from Spielman.


Here's the thing. In the NFL, you have to pay the players. Quality players = quality money. Ain't no way around that. Spielman can't do anything about that. So it's up to Brezinski to finagle the salary cap, push money to years where there is salary cap room etc. You could also argue that Spielman takes his orders from Zimmer in terms of player acquisition/retainment, ergo Brezinski takes his orders from Zimmer, extending your logic.



So you're saying the Triangle of Authority is alive and well.


Actually no, that's what Bill J is saying.



David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/13/2019 11:45:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Ian Rapoport reported Thielen will receive a guaranteed $35 million.

Theilen will be 30 when deal kicks in. So we better hope he ages well.

Details of how the money is doled out are not in yet.


Not worried about that at all.

34/35 is not old at all for a WR that isn't totally reliant on speed.

And while he's 28 right now, he barely played his first 2 years and only has 3 heavy-load seasons in his career.



ambear -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/13/2019 12:03:06 PM)

Chris Tomasson
‏


@christomasson
19h
19 hours ago


More
Talked to cap expert Jason Fitzgerald of OverTheCap. He said it's not too hard for #Vikings to get more 2019 cap room with Adam Thielen extension. Said if his base is cut to $1 million and he gets $15M signing bonus would lower his cap number from $8.1 to $5.15M & create $3M room



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/13/2019 12:12:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.


Brezinski is our cap guy.

And he takes his orders from Spielman.


Here's the thing. In the NFL, you have to pay the players. Quality players = quality money. Ain't no way around that. Spielman can't do anything about that. So it's up to Brezinski to finagle the salary cap, push money to years where there is salary cap room etc. You could also argue that Spielman takes his orders from Zimmer in terms of player acquisition/retainment, ergo Brezinski takes his orders from Zimmer, extending your logic.



So you're saying the Triangle of Authority is alive and well.


Actually no, that's what Bill J is saying.



Yeah, the post was in jest....



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/13/2019 12:17:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ambear

Chris Tomasson
‏


@christomasson
19h
19 hours ago


More
Talked to cap expert Jason Fitzgerald of OverTheCap. He said it's not too hard for #Vikings to get more 2019 cap room with Adam Thielen extension. Said if his base is cut to $1 million and he gets $15M signing bonus would lower his cap number from $8.1 to $5.15M & create $3M room



$3M is luxury cap space! Time to blow it on a FA turd.



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/13/2019 12:38:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Ian Rapoport reported Thielen will receive a guaranteed $35 million.

Theilen will be 30 when deal kicks in. So we better hope he ages well.

Details of how the money is doled out are not in yet.


Not worried about that at all.

34/35 is not old at all for a WR that isn't totally reliant on speed.

And while he's 28 right now, he barely played his first 2 years and only has 3 heavy-load seasons in his career.

Guess we're getting the bargain years right now.



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