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Ragnarök -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/14/2019 7:10:34 PM)
TE's... YAWN... https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-team-that-signs-kirk-cousins-should-also-invest-in-tight-ends/

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/14/2019 7:52:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Yay! Now we can use $7.6 million of cap space so an aging fan favorite can catch three passes for 27 yards and get tackled at the moment of first contact regardless of where the first down marker is and stunt the growth of a young, fast, talented, athletic and cheap tight end. All those trade offers though! Oh how I wonder what troves of treasure Rick must have turned down. In the end the Vikings organization didn't have the balls to cut him. Enjoy mediocrity for another season Rick and Co.! 9-7 and miss the playoffs. Carve that in a rock. I read that Rudolph was the #21 receiver in YAC per reception last year. There are approximately 100 TEs in the NFL. Reports of him not getting YAC seem to be exaggerated. You mean #88 in YAC per reception? Even if you are talking strictly TE, there are 32 starting TE in the NFL. Yes I meant TEs. How many starters is irrelevant to this question. Backup TEs can have great YAC just as much as Starters. I would estimate 100 TEs in the league. About 3 per team with 4 on a few. It's relevant because all of the guys ahead of him are starters. I'm not interested in lumping him in with other teams backups to make him look higher on the list. Among starters he is in the bottom third of the league. Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti Rudy. I'm just saying 3.83 yards after catch is not good. It's not even average among starters.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/14/2019 8:23:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Yay! Now we can use $7.6 million of cap space so an aging fan favorite can catch three passes for 27 yards and get tackled at the moment of first contact regardless of where the first down marker is and stunt the growth of a young, fast, talented, athletic and cheap tight end. All those trade offers though! Oh how I wonder what troves of treasure Rick must have turned down. In the end the Vikings organization didn't have the balls to cut him. Enjoy mediocrity for another season Rick and Co.! 9-7 and miss the playoffs. Carve that in a rock. I read that Rudolph was the #21 receiver in YAC per reception last year. There are approximately 100 TEs in the NFL. Reports of him not getting YAC seem to be exaggerated. You mean #88 in YAC per reception? Even if you are talking strictly TE, there are 32 starting TE in the NFL. Yes I meant TEs. How many starters is irrelevant to this question. Backup TEs can have great YAC just as much as Starters. I would estimate 100 TEs in the league. About 3 per team with 4 on a few. It's relevant because all of the guys ahead of him are starters. I'm not interested in lumping him in with other teams backups to make him look higher on the list. Among starters he is in the bottom third of the league. Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti Rudy. I'm just saying 3.83 yards after catch is not good. It's not even average among starters. Are you certain that every player ahead of Rudy was a starter. Wasn't Ian Thomas ahead of him and he was backup to Olsen. I thought there were some other non starters in that group. Even if they are all starters and Rudy is 21st among starters in YAC that is still nowhere near as bad as this board makes him out to be. Also backups often have higher YACs than starters so it could make Rudolph drop in the list. My understanding was he was 21st in YAC per reception among all TEs. If that is true he is approximately in the top 20%. Now that report may have had a minimum catch eligibility. I don't know.

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/14/2019 8:53:26 PM)
Even the slightest bit of critical thinking and two seconds on the internet answers your own question. Tyler Conklin had 5 receptions and 31 YAC last year for an 6.2 YAC.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/14/2019 9:12:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pager Even the slightest bit of critical thinking and two seconds on the internet answers your own question. Tyler Conklin had 5 receptions and 31 YAC last year for an 6.2 YAC. I was leaving the research to you. So as expected there is a minimum catches to qualify.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/14/2019 9:15:37 PM)
OK so there is no misunderstanding - I took the top 50 tight ends in total YAC for the 2018 and then calculated their average YAC per catch. The lowest catch total was 8 catches but almost all were 15 and over and a big majority were 20 and over. I then ranked them by average YAC per catch. So this is the average YAC per catch for the 50 tight ends that had the most total YAC for the 2018 season: Will Dissly: 11.63 Eric Tomlinson: 11.13 Josh Hill: 10.63 George Kittle: 9.89 Jonnu Smith: 9.00 Evan Engram: 8.62 Vance McDonald: 7.74 Jordan Akins: 7.24 Vernon Davis: 7.00 Geoff Swaim: 6.31 Ryan Griffin: 6.25 Jason Croom: 6.23 Jesse James: 6.17 Matt LaCosse: 6.17 OJ Howard: 6.15 Nick Boyle: 6.09 Maxx Williams: 6.06 Lance Kendricks: 5.89 Tyler Higbee: 5.71 Travis Kelce: 5.52 David Njoku: 5.46 Virgil Green: 5.37 Jordan Thomas: 5.30 Toilolo Lone: 5.24 Rhett Ellison: 5.20 Anthony Firkser: 5.11 James O'Shaugnessy: 5.08 Jared Cook: 5.04 Dallas Goedert: 4.88 Jeff Heuerman: 4.84 Nick Vannett: 4.76 Jimmy Graham: 4.75 CJ Ozumah: 4.70 Chris Herndon IV: 4.54 Antonio Gates: 4.50 Ian Thomas: 4.39 Gerald Everett: 4.36 Mike Gesecki: 4.36 Jordan Reed: 4.28 Jack Doyle: 4.15 Blake Javern: 4.07 Gronk: 3.87 Rudy!: 3.83 Eric Ebron: 3.79 Trey Burton: 3.52 Greg Olsen: 3.11 Zach Ertz: 3.04 Ricky Seals-Jones: 2.85 Ben Watson: 2.49

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/14/2019 9:31:48 PM)
Damning Evidence Sir!!!! I'm no longer ok if Kyle is on the roster.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/14/2019 9:38:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pager Damning Evidence Sir!!!! I'm no longer ok if Kyle is on the roster. I'd feel better about him if he stood out in other categories (like Ertz and Ebron - both have much higher average yards-per-catch meaning they are catching the ball further down the field before being tackled easily) but he doesn't. He simply catches a lot of short passes and then gets tackled easily. If he had more TDs that would help but he's only the third best red zone threat on the team and now we have a bruiser of a RB coming in to take more goal line chances. It baffles me that the team isn't moving on from him.

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/14/2019 9:44:35 PM)
Interesting read, what Raider fans think of Kyle https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2019/5/11/18616026/kyle-rudolph-vikings-talks-break-down-should-raiders-trade-for-te

bstinger -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/14/2019 9:56:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Yay! Now we can use $7.6 million of cap space so an aging fan favorite can catch three passes for 27 yards and get tackled at the moment of first contact regardless of where the first down marker is and stunt the growth of a young, fast, talented, athletic and cheap tight end. All those trade offers though! Oh how I wonder what troves of treasure Rick must have turned down. In the end the Vikings organization didn't have the balls to cut him. Enjoy mediocrity for another season Rick and Co.! 9-7 and miss the playoffs. Carve that in a rock. I read that Rudolph was the #21 receiver in YAC per reception last year. There are approximately 100 TEs in the NFL. Reports of him not getting YAC seem to be exaggerated. You mean #88 in YAC per reception? Even if you are talking strictly TE, there are 32 starting TE in the NFL. Yes I meant TEs. How many starters is irrelevant to this question. Backup TEs can have great YAC just as much as Starters. I would estimate 100 TEs in the league. About 3 per team with 4 on a few. It's relevant because all of the guys ahead of him are starters. I'm not interested in lumping him in with other teams backups to make him look higher on the list. Among starters he is in the bottom third of the league. Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti Rudy. I'm just saying 3.83 yards after catch is not good. It's not even average among starters. God I hate myself for jumping into this mind numbing conversation, but it should be noted that Rudy only get's the 3.83 because he's catching the ball at or near the line of scrimmage and needs at least 5 yrds for the 1st or TD, which he almost never gets to. Defenses play off him because they don't fear his speed, elusiveness, or tackle breaking ability. He gets virtually nothing past what defenses allow him to have. He has good size and great hands, but he better run to the spot you need him to get, because he's not getting extra on his own very often. I like him as a player, love him for what he's done in the community and hope he retires a Viking, but he IS overpaid right now. Obviously suitors aren't knocking down our door for him or he would be traded already. I believe we'll keep him on roster through the preseason to see what we have for options. If Smith and others preform well and stay healthy I wouldn't be surprised that he is jettisoned, either traded for whatever we can get or cut.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/14/2019 9:59:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. OK so there is no misunderstanding - I took the top 50 tight ends in total YAC for the 2018 and then calculated their average YAC per catch. The lowest catch total was 8 catches but almost all were 15 and over and a big majority were 20 and over. I then ranked them by average YAC per catch. So this is the average YAC per catch for the 50 tight ends that had the most total YAC for the 2018 season: Will Dissly: 11.63 Eric Tomlinson: 11.13 Josh Hill: 10.63 George Kittle: 9.89 Jonnu Smith: 9.00 Evan Engram: 8.62 Vance McDonald: 7.74 Jordan Akins: 7.24 Vernon Davis: 7.00 Geoff Swaim: 6.31 Ryan Griffin: 6.25 Jason Croom: 6.23 Jesse James: 6.17 Matt LaCosse: 6.17 OJ Howard: 6.15 Nick Boyle: 6.09 Maxx Williams: 6.06 Lance Kendricks: 5.89 Tyler Higbee: 5.71 Travis Kelce: 5.52 David Njoku: 5.46 Virgil Green: 5.37 Jordan Thomas: 5.30 Toilolo Lone: 5.24 Rhett Ellison: 5.20 Anthony Firkser: 5.11 James O'Shaugnessy: 5.08 Jared Cook: 5.04 Dallas Goedert: 4.88 Jeff Heuerman: 4.84 Nick Vannett: 4.76 Jimmy Graham: 4.75 CJ Ozumah: 4.70 Chris Herndon IV: 4.54 Antonio Gates: 4.50 Ian Thomas: 4.39 Gerald Everett: 4.36 Mike Gesecki: 4.36 Jordan Reed: 4.28 Jack Doyle: 4.15 Blake Javern: 4.07 Gronk: 3.87 Rudy!: 3.83 Eric Ebron: 3.79 Trey Burton: 3.52 Greg Olsen: 3.11 Zach Ertz: 3.04 Ricky Seals-Jones: 2.85 Ben Watson: 2.49 It certainly proves a point. (Though, not who the better TEs are – I would take the bottom 11 over the top 11 if I were fielding a pure TE team) Interesting that Watson and Seferian-Jenkins are even more YAC deprived than Rudy. Maybe we can swing a trade with NE – Rudy must seem like a YAC monster to them.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/14/2019 10:02:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. OK so there is no misunderstanding - I took the top 50 tight ends in total YAC for the 2018 and then calculated their average YAC per catch. The lowest catch total was 8 catches but almost all were 15 and over and a big majority were 20 and over. I then ranked them by average YAC per catch. So this is the average YAC per catch for the 50 tight ends that had the most total YAC for the 2018 season: Will Dissly: 11.63 Eric Tomlinson: 11.13 Josh Hill: 10.63 George Kittle: 9.89 Jonnu Smith: 9.00 Evan Engram: 8.62 Vance McDonald: 7.74 Jordan Akins: 7.24 Vernon Davis: 7.00 Geoff Swaim: 6.31 Ryan Griffin: 6.25 Jason Croom: 6.23 Jesse James: 6.17 Matt LaCosse: 6.17 OJ Howard: 6.15 Nick Boyle: 6.09 Maxx Williams: 6.06 Lance Kendricks: 5.89 Tyler Higbee: 5.71 Travis Kelce: 5.52 David Njoku: 5.46 Virgil Green: 5.37 Jordan Thomas: 5.30 Toilolo Lone: 5.24 Rhett Ellison: 5.20 Anthony Firkser: 5.11 James O'Shaugnessy: 5.08 Jared Cook: 5.04 Dallas Goedert: 4.88 Jeff Heuerman: 4.84 Nick Vannett: 4.76 Jimmy Graham: 4.75 CJ Ozumah: 4.70 Chris Herndon IV: 4.54 Antonio Gates: 4.50 Ian Thomas: 4.39 Gerald Everett: 4.36 Mike Gesecki: 4.36 Jordan Reed: 4.28 Jack Doyle: 4.15 Blake Javern: 4.07 Gronk: 3.87 Rudy!: 3.83 Eric Ebron: 3.79 Trey Burton: 3.52 Greg Olsen: 3.11 Zach Ertz: 3.04 Ricky Seals-Jones: 2.85 Ben Watson: 2.49 Fair enough. In that light his YAC does suck. Still there is a lot more to a TE than YAC. Basically catching everything in sight. Rudy still does that.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/14/2019 10:15:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pager Interesting read, what Raider fans think of Kyle https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2019/5/11/18616026/kyle-rudolph-vikings-talks-break-down-should-raiders-trade-for-te I love it how it takes only about six comments and the whole conversation shifts to being unhappy with the Mack trade to Chicago and never makes it back.

Ragnarök -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/14/2019 10:59:49 PM)
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/te

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/14/2019 11:05:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Pager Interesting read, what Raider fans think of Kyle https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2019/5/11/18616026/kyle-rudolph-vikings-talks-break-down-should-raiders-trade-for-te I love it how it takes only about six comments and the whole conversation shifts to being unhappy with the Mack trade to Chicago and never makes it back. [&:] Big debate on how good the Bears will be and where that 1st round pick will be. I think Vegas gave them a good line in 9.5, rounding up, I think they'll have 10 wins. It does move on to some pretty good discussion. A lot of fans think they should run with their young guys (they're big on Waller). Some to trade for Rudy but only if a restructure deal is offered (2 years for 10M). Others think there's no market and to wait for him to get cut. Pretty split on 1 yr value, half think not at 7.65/ half think they have the cap space and its not a burden. For those in the acquire him camp, no one I read thought anything more than a 6th (they don't have a 5th rounder next yr.). The fans of the most TE needy team think his market is a 6th rounder and averaging out his salary to be about 5-6M. I agree with their perception of the market.

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/14/2019 11:11:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Yay! Now we can use $7.6 million of cap space so an aging fan favorite can catch three passes for 27 yards and get tackled at the moment of first contact regardless of where the first down marker is and stunt the growth of a young, fast, talented, athletic and cheap tight end. All those trade offers though! Oh how I wonder what troves of treasure Rick must have turned down. In the end the Vikings organization didn't have the balls to cut him. Enjoy mediocrity for another season Rick and Co.! 9-7 and miss the playoffs. Carve that in a rock. I read that Rudolph was the #21 receiver in YAC per reception last year. There are approximately 100 TEs in the NFL. Reports of him not getting YAC seem to be exaggerated. You mean #88 in YAC per reception? Even if you are talking strictly TE, there are 32 starting TE in the NFL. Yes I meant TEs. How many starters is irrelevant to this question. Backup TEs can have great YAC just as much as Starters. I would estimate 100 TEs in the league. About 3 per team with 4 on a few. It's relevant because all of the guys ahead of him are starters. I'm not interested in lumping him in with other teams backups to make him look higher on the list. Among starters he is in the bottom third of the league. Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti Rudy. I'm just saying 3.83 yards after catch is not good. It's not even average among starters. God I hate myself for jumping into this mind numbing conversation, but it should be noted that Rudy only get's the 3.83 because he's catching the ball at or near the line of scrimmage and needs at least 5 yrds for the 1st or TD, which he almost never gets to. Defenses play off him because they don't fear his speed, elusiveness, or tackle breaking ability. He gets virtually nothing past what defenses allow him to have. He has good size and great hands, but he better run to the spot you need him to get, because he's not getting extra on his own very often. I like him as a player, love him for what he's done in the community and hope he retires a Viking, but he IS overpaid right now. Obviously suitors aren't knocking down our door for him or he would be traded already. I believe we'll keep him on roster through the preseason to see what we have for options. If Smith and others preform well and stay healthy I wouldn't be surprised that he is jettisoned, either traded for whatever we can get or cut. Good points, no argument here. Having the cap space shifts most of the leverage back to the Vikes. I think you're right. If no offers, why cut him now? He and his agent want resolution by next week. Give them a chance to test the market. See what you've got in your young guys. See if any big injuries translate into a decent return on a trade. Go into camp status quo and you've got options.

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/14/2019 11:15:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ragnarök https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/te We cannot yet fully separate the performance of a receiver from the performance of his quarterback. Be aware that one will affect the other. These statistics measure only passes thrown to a receiver, not performance on plays when he is not thrown the ball, such as blocking and drawing double teams. Dang.....You must be coming around on Cousins!

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/14/2019 11:33:56 PM)
Rhett Ellison was on that list- the former Viking. I was sorry that we let him go. It does make the point that many on the list are on NFL teams because they are good blockers. Rudolph is not a good blocker, but he makes his money because he has great hands, he's a big target in the red zone and converts first downs. Those are all valuable qualities. Still, I think the team has done a lot of analytical work this off-season. They want to bring more dynamism to the position at the same provide better blocking for a rather immobile quarterback who lacks a quicker release. Also, the head coach wants to run the ball more effectively, particularly in short yardage situations. We all could see that our team didn't matchup well to the physicality of the Bears in that last game. We saw some of the video where our center seemed to be overwhelmed, (and lo and behold we drafted a center with our first pick) but I bet Rudolph did not help enough with his blocking either. I also believe the team wants to be more unpredictable, which requires more versatility on the part of the tight end. It puts more pressure on the defenses where there are less "tells" to what the play will be based on personnel and even formations. Lastly, the team has been ridiculously close to the cap and Rudolph, even though he is valued for his contributions on and off the field stubbornly refused to compomise. Is he scheduled to make top 5 salary for NFL tight ends? How many tight ends on that list make more money than Rudolph? I just checked and he comes in at number 9. That's number 9 even though he's probably on the wrong side of his prime. It was kind of a kicker to me that he didn't re-negotiate a lower salary, but in fairness the Vikings might have been pretty aggressive with the cut in pay. I don't know, but if they did it must be because they have decided to make some changes. https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nfl/2019/03/15/highest-paid-tight-ends-ranking-nfl-tes-salary-2019-season/3176821002/

thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/14/2019 11:46:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Yay! Now we can use $7.6 million of cap space so an aging fan favorite can catch three passes for 27 yards and get tackled at the moment of first contact regardless of where the first down marker is and stunt the growth of a young, fast, talented, athletic and cheap tight end. All those trade offers though! Oh how I wonder what troves of treasure Rick must have turned down. In the end the Vikings organization didn't have the balls to cut him. Enjoy mediocrity for another season Rick and Co.! 9-7 and miss the playoffs. Carve that in a rock. I read that Rudolph was the #21 receiver in YAC per reception last year. There are approximately 100 TEs in the NFL. Reports of him not getting YAC seem to be exaggerated. You mean #88 in YAC per reception? Even if you are talking strictly TE, there are 32 starting TE in the NFL. Yes I meant TEs. How many starters is irrelevant to this question. Backup TEs can have great YAC just as much as Starters. I would estimate 100 TEs in the league. About 3 per team with 4 on a few. It's relevant because all of the guys ahead of him are starters. I'm not interested in lumping him in with other teams backups to make him look higher on the list. Among starters he is in the bottom third of the league. Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti Rudy. I'm just saying 3.83 yards after catch is not good. It's not even average among starters. God I hate myself for jumping into this mind numbing conversation, but it should be noted that Rudy only get's the 3.83 because he's catching the ball at or near the line of scrimmage and needs at least 5 yrds for the 1st or TD, which he almost never gets to. Defenses play off him because they don't fear his speed, elusiveness, or tackle breaking ability. He gets virtually nothing past what defenses allow him to have. He has good size and great hands, but he better run to the spot you need him to get, because he's not getting extra on his own very often. I like him as a player, love him for what he's done in the community and hope he retires a Viking, but he IS overpaid right now. Obviously suitors aren't knocking down our door for him or he would be traded already. I believe we'll keep him on roster through the preseason to see what we have for options. If Smith and others preform well and stay healthy I wouldn't be surprised that he is jettisoned, either traded for whatever we can get or cut. Nothing but yac yac yac...

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/15/2019 12:28:04 AM)
[&:] This came up on Facebook and I thought it was a good question. Who is the most underrated current Viking player?

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/15/2019 1:01:57 AM)
. . Chris Tomasson@christomasson Looks like today's #Vikings moves should leave them with in the neighborhood of $620,000 of salary-cap room.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/15/2019 7:25:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Pager Interesting read, what Raider fans think of Kyle https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2019/5/11/18616026/kyle-rudolph-vikings-talks-break-down-should-raiders-trade-for-te I love it how it takes only about six comments and the whole conversation shifts to being unhappy with the Mack trade to Chicago and never makes it back. Oak 2nd rd pick going to Chi next season won't be much lower than the 1st rd pick they got from Chi for Mack[&:]

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/15/2019 8:09:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson [&:] This came up on Facebook and I thought it was a good question. Who is the most underrated current Viking player? Most underrated by the TalkVikes message board Kyle Rudolph.

Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/15/2019 8:27:34 AM)
Rudolph is okay. And that he's a stand up guy makes the okay palatable. He doesn't deserve the scorn he gets by some fans but he is expendable. He could have won some serious favor if he was willing to do the team a solid when they were scratching for coin. But he didn't and the end is near.

Murph -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/15/2019 9:36:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Pager Interesting read, what Raider fans think of Kyle https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2019/5/11/18616026/kyle-rudolph-vikings-talks-break-down-should-raiders-trade-for-te I love it how it takes only about six comments and the whole conversation shifts to being unhappy with the Mack trade to Chicago and never makes it back. [&:] Big debate on how good the Bears will be and where that 1st round pick will be. I think Vegas gave them a good line in 9.5, rounding up, I think they'll have 10 wins. It does move on to some pretty good discussion. A lot of fans think they should run with their young guys (they're big on Waller). Some to trade for Rudy but only if a restructure deal is offered (2 years for 10M). Others think there's no market and to wait for him to get cut. Pretty split on 1 yr value, half think not at 7.65/ half think they have the cap space and its not a burden. For those in the acquire him camp, no one I read thought anything more than a 6th (they don't have a 5th rounder next yr.). The fans of the most TE needy team think his market is a 6th rounder and averaging out his salary to be about 5-6M. I agree with their perception of the market. That sounds about right. I'd say he's worth about 5M for us.

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