RE: General Vikes Talk (Full Version)

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Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 6:17:14 PM)

Nothing any of us do, say, think, or feel will change our path.

We're up against it and most signs point to this season ending on the outside looking in - so if we do fail some can say 'see, I was right...'

But I don't care about being right or wrong.

I choose to believe until they turn the lights out and tell me to go home.

---

I wish I was a better fan where I didn't want to lash out at the team when they disappoint. Anyone can love something when it's smooth sailing. I'm a jerk about getting let down but I'm glad that I can get myself to come back around. Still, I could be a better fan and I admit it.



Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 6:23:17 PM)

I'm not even promoting an all fans on deck approach. After hearing players say in 98 that they felt it felt it - the something special about to happen...and failed, and after the magic of hosting our own SB was ripped away I know we are simply along for the ride. Whether or not we've got our heads sticking out the window wagging our tails, or in the back bitching and asking if we're there yet.



Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 6:27:27 PM)

Backing Cousins in this corner



CPAMAN -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 7:03:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I feel we can bounce off of this and get these last 3 W's.

I think Thielen's outburst was the nail in Flip's coffin and I thank him for it.

Now we just need to rally as a team and play smart and clean with purpose.

Todd, when have you witnessed this Vikings team playing smart, clean, and with purpose? This team is incapable of this because the O-line is epic bad as in Spergin Wynn bad.



CPAMAN -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 7:04:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I feel we can bounce off of this and get these last 3 W's.

I think Thielen's outburst was the nail in Flip's coffin and I thank him for it.

Now we just need to rally as a team and play smart and clean with purpose.

I think we can too.
The performance by our defense was top notch. I can't believe Wilson ever had a worse day?

Et tu Brute?



Dana Turner -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 7:11:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Backing Cousins in this corner


Yea, when things are going smoothly, he's a good QB, but under pressure, duress, when everyone is counting on him to produce, he is predictable and the league knows it. Is it something he can break, I hope so, we have the next two years to watch and see!



Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 7:16:14 PM)

[image]http://i67.tinypic.com/w0qtl1.png[/image]



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 7:23:30 PM)

Sway or not it is outrageous. The call was right and that they picked up the flag is an outrage.

An outrage only if you believe a 'sway' is outrageous.

An official involved in a 'sway' could have simply stated it wasn't a penalty because I don't think he touched to gain any leverage.

Or if the lead official in the conference was in on the 'sway', he only had to say: "We can't do this penalty, I got money on Seattle". [&:]



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 7:29:02 PM)

Ricky, is there not an extra 'not' in that sentence about what Cris Carter thinks, in regards to Keenum and Cousins?



Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 7:33:34 PM)

How will the run game be more successful under Stefanski? What will be different?



Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 7:36:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

How will the run game be more successful under Stefanski? What will be different?

Simple answer! It won't! I'm sure glad Zimmer will be even more involved now as well!



Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 7:39:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

[image]http://i67.tinypic.com/w0qtl1.png[/image]



For once, I agree with CC the analyst.



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 7:43:36 PM)

Are they forbidding Stefanski from adding any new wrinkles ?

The times they run might change, maybe he will run it more in some games, maybe he rolls Kirk out more, maybe he takes Compton or Remmers out of the lineup????

Maybe there was also something with DeFillipo where he and Cousins clashed, and with that gone, Kirk plays better.

Don't really know, just hoping.



Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 7:55:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Will Brinson

@WillBrinson

·

14h

ESPN mic just picked up Adam Thielen yelling "it's been there all f---ing day" after a big catch and run. Awkward

This old dude picked that up during the game in real time.
Its pretty damn easy to see the complete mess we had become by the end last night.
One scapegoat is gone. Others soon to follow.
As Sweens is trying to point out, EVERYY team has weaknesses. You scheme to overcome those. It takes creativity and vision and sometimes a change in philosophy.
I don't care if you throw the ball every damn down. If you win, it's working.
NFL play-calling is COMPLETELY different than it was 2-3 years ago. You're blind if you don't see it.
Can't protect your QB?
MOVE HIM
Can't run-block?
STOP RUNNING YOUR BACKS LATERALLY
In many ways we are WAY over-thinking this stuff.



Yep. No where to run and hide. I've thought the problems were Flip/Zim/Cousins not meshing together. Obviously the oline is ******* *** ***** . But that may never change, ever.

Flip out. If nothing changes offensively, we get closer to the real issue.



Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 7:57:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinemmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Well outside of a trade Cousins isn't going anywhere but dang he's playing poor.

Should have been gone two years ago: Mike Priefer, Kyle Rudolph, and Laquon Treadwell.

Should be gone by next season: Compton, Elflein, Remmers

Pick one and toss the other: Zimmer, Flip

AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP DRAFTING CBs in rounds one and two when our Oline can't block the Golden Girls.


Agreed.

I would toss Zimmer right now and give Flip a shot at the last 3 games.

But Flip's lack of creativity in short yardage (motions, picks, exploiting edges while faking up the middle) have me extremely concerned about him as well.

I'm putting lack of creativity on Zim. He said a couple of weeks ago he wanted simple.



Yep. "Too many plays" if I remember correctly.



Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 8:00:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Viking

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

I think that will be the last OC Zimm forces out.

Zimm himself is now on the clock.


Fair enough, but Norv was/is garbage, Flip did some good things but has lost the plot in recent weeks. Shurmur obviously wasn't forced out.



Norv was shown the door to save the season. How'd that work out in the short term?

I'm less confident heading into our next game than I have been in a long time.



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 8:01:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinemmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinemmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Well outside of a trade Cousins isn't going anywhere but dang he's playing poor.

Should have been gone two years ago: Mike Priefer, Kyle Rudolph, and Laquon Treadwell.

Should be gone by next season: Compton, Elflein, Remmers

Pick one and toss the other: Zimmer, Flip

AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP DRAFTING CBs in rounds one and two when our Oline can't block the Golden Girls.


Agreed.

I would toss Zimmer right now and give Flip a shot at the last 3 games.

But Flip's lack of creativity in short yardage (motions, picks, exploiting edges while faking up the middle) have me extremely concerned about him as well.

I'm putting lack of creativity on Zim. He said a couple of weeks ago he wanted simple.



If he were calling the plays I would agree.

But he's not.

He wants a solid running attack as it controls the ball and keeps the other team's offense off the field, plus it makes play action work a lot better.

Creativity isn't the problem, it's that we have a sieve for an Oline.


You can scheme to reduce the impact of a weak line. Long developing run plays and passing schemes based on creating angles don't work well with the level of inside penetration our GCG trio allows play after play. If you go to a quick hitting run game, the guards and the center aren't required to hold their blocks as long. If you scheme it right, you can even use the DL's surge up field against them. Then start rolling out in the passing game. It won't turn us into an offensive juggernaut, but it can help mitigate a lot of weaknesses.


THIS!

I second it

Excellent analysis Sweens

I don't think our oline is beyond help. Much of it is what they are good at as a unit vs what we're making them do.

Elf and Easton for example accell pulling and blocking out in space. We now have O'Neal whom is very athletic. Need to use this.



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 8:10:24 PM)

Question

I stepped away from the TV for 5 minutes after Sea scored to make it 14-0

I come back and it's 21-0

How did they score so quickly?



drviking -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 8:48:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Question

I stepped away from the TV for 5 minutes after Sea scored to make it 14-0

I come back and it's 21-0

How did they score so quickly?


It was the classic cousins fumble scoop and score we have come to love



Ragnarök -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 9:20:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Question

I stepped away from the TV for 5 minutes after Sea scored to make it 14-0

I come back and it's 21-0

How did they score so quickly?


It was the classic cousins fumble scoop and score we have come to love


Was that a designed play call by Flipp? no wonder why they fired him!

Damn gonna be great seeing Cousins Without Flipp messing up his game! No more staring down receivers, holding the ball too long, losing field awareness and pocket presence... He is going to be on point now and no longer miss wide open options as he fully makes his progressions while rolling out under pressure... Its going to be awesome now that Flipp is gone!



beo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 9:51:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

How will the run game be more successful under Stefanski? What will be different?


I don't know that it will... but it could be.
We insist on running the ball right behind our guards which is our weakest link.
We are running(I believe... I'm just a f'ing fan... go figure) a zone blocking scheme I don't think we are suited for at all...
It'll be interesting to see if it's Flip, the line, Zim, or other that is the problem.



beo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 9:53:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I feel we can bounce off of this and get these last 3 W's.

I think Thielen's outburst was the nail in Flip's coffin and I thank him for it.

Now we just need to rally as a team and play smart and clean with purpose.

Todd, when have you witnessed this Vikings team playing smart, clean, and with purpose? This team is incapable of this because the O-line is epic bad as in Spergin Wynn bad.


See, here is the one time when you deny your negativity...
Of course they are going to win the last 3(or at least go 2-1).
It'll save Zim's job and we'll get a nice repeat of this crap next year.
It's the Vikes... book it.

[&:]



Dave Odle -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 10:12:45 PM)

I'm torn on this one. De Felippo didn't seem like the problem to me. They were cruising earlier on offense w/ medium to deep passes regularly. Then it just stopped. I don't understand why Zimmer would insist on a forced ground game w/ unknown results vs. what had been working. IMO, he tied Flip's hands by giving an ultimatum that we need to run the ball or else... then gets mad when it doesn't work. I think he wants it both ways; yet I also don't want to lose this defense if he leaves because then we would have to fix both sides of the ball. Make no mistake, this is the defense that Zim built. So in that way, I guess he is a lot like Buddy Ryan (just not as MUCH of an asshole. We have a great defensive coordinator coaching who would never accept a demotion w/ the team he is with. Much like Wade Phillips. Old school, but a great defensive mind as a single skillset.



bstinger -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 10:46:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

I'm torn on this one. De Felippo didn't seem like the problem to me. They were cruising earlier on offense w/ medium to deep passes regularly. Then it just stopped. I don't understand why Zimmer would insist on a forced ground game w/ unknown results vs. what had been working. IMO, he tied Flip's hands by giving an ultimatum that we need to run the ball or else... then gets mad when it doesn't work. I think he wants it both ways; yet I also don't want to lose this defense if he leaves because then we would have to fix both sides of the ball. Make no mistake, this is the defense that Zim built. So in that way, I guess he is a lot like Buddy Ryan (just not as MUCH of an asshole. We have a great defensive coordinator coaching who would never accept a demotion w/ the team he is with. Much like Wade Phillips. Old school, but a great defensive mind as a single skillset.

Agree with your take on Zimmer's influence on the O. Not sure Zim is "all that" on D. He's spent a large majority of draft and cap assets on D and it' isn't #1. They are 11th in pts per game. 13th against the run. For someone who came in as a defensive genius and CB whisperer, why did we have to spend so much draft capital on CB's? Shouldn't he be able to do more with less if he was truly a great coach? Instead, we overemphasize the D and neglect the O for years, particularly O line. Those decisions are coming back to haunt and it should come as any surprise.



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/11/2018 11:54:42 PM)

With the QBs coach promoted to OC, do the Vikes need a new QBs coach ? If so, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre ?



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