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Rob Viking -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/31/2019 3:18:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: CPAMAN quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . . Odds To Win Super Bowl 54 Team Odds Baltimore Ravens +220 Kansas City Chiefs +375 San Francisco 49ers +400 New Orleans Saints +600 Green Bay Packers +1000 New England Patriots +1000 Philadelphia Eagles +2800 Seattle Seahawks +2800 Houston Texans +4000 Minnesota Vikings +4000 Tennessee Titans +4500 Buffalo Bills +5000 I cannot agree that KC is the second rated team above San Fran, NO, NE, and probably even Seattle. You should bet on Seattle. $100 will return $2900. Think the Saints are decent value. Titans as a flyer at 45-1 ain't bad.

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/31/2019 3:42:19 PM)
Here's the best I could find about the newest Viking. He's a fringe player, albeit on a playoff team. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2019/6/7/18651954/2019-buffalo-bills-scouting-report-defensive-end-eddie-yarbrough-90-players-in-90-days

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/31/2019 4:11:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson Here's the best I could find about the newest Viking. He's a fringe player, albeit on a playoff team. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2019/6/7/18651954/2019-buffalo-bills-scouting-report-defensive-end-eddie-yarbrough-90-players-in-90-days Who's hurt? I'm guessing either Watts or Hill.

joejitsu -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/31/2019 4:56:41 PM)
I just read that Hunter has been penalized only SIX times in the past two seasons. That is a crazy stat, considering Grif gets called for offside at least once a game.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/31/2019 8:33:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . . Odds To Win Super Bowl 54 Team Odds Baltimore Ravens +220 Kansas City Chiefs +375 San Francisco 49ers +400 New Orleans Saints +600 Green Bay Packers +1000 New England Patriots +1000 Philadelphia Eagles +2800 Seattle Seahawks +2800 Houston Texans +4000 Minnesota Vikings +4000 Tennessee Titans +4500 Buffalo Bills +5000 I was in Vegas Sunday and wanted to bet the Vikings to win the Super Bowl. However, the Vikings were playing the bears at the time so no bets allowed. Had to leave before the game was over so unable to place my bet. I live in Arizona so I don't think I can bet from home. Anybody know how this works? I also want to bet the Vikings +8 against the Saints. With the internet you can place a bet from damn near anywhere.

kwheats -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/31/2019 9:36:06 PM)
Zimmer can't beat playoff teams in the regular season when they score 20 or more points without Cousins By Big Stupid Face on Dec 30, 2019, 10:20pm CST 13 TWEET SHARE PIN Zimmer currently sits at 11-25 record against playoff teams in the regular season. Zimmer was at 9-15, and those numbers plummeted with the arrival of Kirk Cousins. Cousins is 2-10 against future playoff teams in the regular season. Is this all on Cousins or a continuation of a long standing trend in the Zimmer era? Scroll to the bottom of this article if you want to see all 36 games with scores. Below is a quick summary of the quarterbacks and their records against playoff teams in the regular season under Zimmer. Cassel 0-1. Ponder 0-1 Keenum 2-2 Bradford 4-4 Teddy 3-7 Cousins 2-10 Why is Cousins not winning? An interesting pattern emerges when filtering out the wins: Cousins is the only QB in the Zimmer era to beat a playoff bound team when they score 20 or more points (Table 2 below). Keenum’s opponents only scored 7 and 9 points in his 2 wins. Bridgewater’s wins all came against opponents that scored 14 points or less. Bradford’s opponents scored 13, 14, and 19 points. The average opponents score before Cousins arrived in these games is 12. All of Cousins games have come against opponents that have score 20 or more points. Keenum, Bridgewater, and Bradford never beat a playoff bound team when they scored more than 20 points. Cousins has done it twice. Table 2: All Vikings victories against playoff bound teams in regular season. Year Team Vikings points Opp. points QB 2017 Rams 24 7 Keenum 2017 Falcons 14 9 Keenum 2015 Chiefs 16 10 Teddy 2016 Giants 24 10 Bradford 2014 Panthers 31 13 Teddy 2015 Packers 20 13 Teddy 2016 Texans 31 13 Bradford 2016 Packers 17 14 Bradford 2017 Saints 29 19 Bradford 2019 Eagles 38 20 Cousins 2018 Eagles 23 21 Cousins Number of games playoff bound opponents were held to under 20 points went from 55% to zero once Cousins arrived. See Table 3 below and let that sink in. Quarterbacks not named Cousins had the opponents scoring less than 20 points over half the time (55%). Those same quarterbacks won 9 of 13 games. None of the games since Cousins arrived are on this list. Why can't the defense hold playoff bound teams to under 20 points since Cousins arrived? Going from over half to zero is a HUGE change! It's worth noting that Cook had a fumble-6 in Chicago (2018) and Cousins had a fumble-6 in Seattle (2018) that would have put the scores under 20 in those games. So this is not all on the defense. But this can only account for 2 of the 12 games Cousins played, and Cousins should have had 6-7 games if teams were held to pre-Cousins levels of scoring. Table 3: Teams held to under 20 points. None since Cousins arrived Year Team Vikings points Opp. points W/L QB 2014 Panthers 31 13 W Teddy 2014 Lions 14 16 L Teddy 2014 Lions 3 17 L Teddy 2015 Chiefs 16 10 W Teddy 2015 Packers 20 13 W Teddy 2016 Giants 24 10 W Bradford 2016 Texans 31 13 W Bradford 2016 Packers 17 14 W Bradford 2016 Lions 13 16 L Bradford 2016 Cowboys 15 17 L Bradford 2017 Rams 24 7 W Keenum 2017 Falcons 14 9 W Keenum 2017 Saints 29 19 W Bradford What happened to the Defense since Cousins arrived? Filtering out wins and losses in the years prior to Cousins an interesting trend appears: The Vikings defense has allowed more 3rd down conversions and this directly correlates to their record against playoff bound teams. From 2015-2018, the defense held their opponents average 3rd down conversion rate during wins to under 25%. The losses of those years vary, but as the average rate creeps up the record drops. It is interesting that in 2016 (Bradford's year) and 2017 ( 1 game Bradford, rest Keenum) even the losses had an average opponent's 3rd down conversion rate under 30%. It is also interesting that in 2014 and 2018 as the average crept up to about 40% the win record dropped to 1-5 and 1-6. Table 4: Opponents 3rd down conversion rate Year W L average Record 2014 43.8 39.5 40.0 1-5 2015 19 44 35.6 2-4 2016 17.5 37.5 28.6 3-4 2017 24.4 28 25.8 3-2 2018 22 41.8 41.8 1-6 2019 33 36 35.4 1-4 Vikings won 3 of 21 games when their opponent’s 3rd down conversion rate is over 30%. For some reason 30% 3rd down conversation rate is the kiss of death for the Vikings. Pre-Cousins the Vikings won 2 of 12 (16%) of games where their opponent’s 3rd down conversion rate is above 30%. 9 of Cousins 12 games are in this range where all other quarterback's in the Zimmer era won 16% of the time. It is interesting to note that the 3 games above 30% that they have won were some of the highest scoring games they had against playoff bound opponents. Did the Vikings score so much that it overcame the 30% kiss of death? The 2014 Carolina game had 2 blocked punts for TDs. I have not investigated the other games further. Table 5: Games over 30% 3rd down conversion rate and W/L record. Year Team Vikings points Opp. points W/L QB Opp. 3rd Conversion % 2019 Chiefs 23 26 L Cousins 30 2019 Packers 16 21 L Cousins 33 2017 Panthers 24 31 L Keenum 33 2019 Packers 10 23 L Cousins 35 2014 Packers 10 42 L Ponder 36 2015 Packers 13 30 L Teddy 38 2016 Lions 13 16 L Bradford 43 2016 Packers 25 38 L Bradford 46 2019 Seattle 30 37 L Cousins 46 2015 Cardinals 20 23 L Teddy 46 2016 Lions 16 22 L Bradford 50 2018 Patriots 10 24 L Cousins 50 2018 Saints 20 30 L Cousins 50 Summary The above evidence shows that Cousins is currently not getting the support quarterbacks have typically gotten from Zimmer era defenses. Everyone has seen Cousins play. It is undeniable that he is responsible for some of the losses, but clearly there are some really obvious trends that are difficult to ignore. Questions I would love answered: 1. Is the correlation of opponent's 3rd down conversion rate a cause or a symptom of a different issue? 2. Why are playoff bound teams scoring above 20 points in all 12 games Cousins has played, when it used to be less than half? 3. Is Cousins somehow pushing the defense into zones where the Vikings historically fail? 4. Is this a product of Zimmer's style of play without an elite defense? Let me know what you think! Table 6: All Zimmer era games against playoff bound teams. Year Team Vikes points Other points W/L QB 2014 Panthers 31 13 W Teddy 2014 Patriots 7 30 L Cassel 2014 Packers 10 42 L Ponder 2014 Lions 3 17 L Teddy 2014 Packers 21 24 L Teddy 2014 Lions 14 16 L Teddy 2015 Chiefs 16 10 W Teddy 2015 Packers 20 13 W Teddy 2015 Broncos 20 23 L Teddy 2015 Seahawk 7 38 L Teddy 2015 Packers 13 30 L Teddy 2015 Cardinals 20 23 L Teddy 2016 Packers 17 14 W Bradford 2016 Giants 24 10 W Bradford 2016 Texans 31 13 W Bradford 2016 Lions 16 22 L Bradford 2016 Lions 13 16 L Bradford 2016 Cowboys 15 17 L Bradford 2016 Packers 25 38 L Bradford 2017 Saints 29 19 W Bradford 2017 Rams 24 7 W Keenum 2017 Falcons 14 9 W Keenum 2017 Panthers 24 31 L Keenum 2017 Steelers 9 26 L Keenum 2018 Eagles 23 21 W Cousins 2018 Seattle 7 21 L Cousins 2018 Patriots 10 24 L Cousins 2018 Saints 20 30 L Cousins 2018 Rams 31 38 L Cousins 2018 Bears 20 25 L Cousins 2018 Bears 10 24 L Cousins 2019 Eagles 38 20 W Cousins 2019 Seattle 30 37 L Cousins 2019 Chiefs 23 26 L Cousins 2019 Packers 10 23 L Cousins 2019 Packers 16 21 L Cousins

kwheats -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/31/2019 9:40:04 PM)
Sorry about the long post!!![&o]

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/31/2019 10:00:10 PM)
Much easier read by just copying and pasting the link

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/31/2019 10:03:02 PM)
fan support is really going to plummet if this team lays an egg Sunday. hard to get a read on what the Wilf's are thinking here.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/31/2019 10:04:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson Here's the best I could find about the newest Viking. He's a fringe player, albeit on a playoff team. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2019/6/7/18651954/2019-buffalo-bills-scouting-report-defensive-end-eddie-yarbrough-90-players-in-90-days Who's hurt? I'm guessing either Watts or Hill. Watts put on IR

hagar -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/31/2019 10:08:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: hagar quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson Oli Udoh flashed both in pass protection and in run blocking yesterday. Here's a few snaps of his at right tackle going up against Khalil Mack: https://twitter.com/i/status/1211734416864743424 it would be huge if we could count on udoh at rt next season - o'neill at lt.... Personally I would bench Reiff and start Udoh for the playoffs. That's me. I mean, I figure we have to do something different than what we've been doing. On defense I would start Odenigbo ahead of Everson Griffen and i would play Kearse on nickel downs. i agree that if the defense goes out there and just plays our straight up game we'll get hammered...especially with all the zone we've been playing this season...we need to change some things - shorten the time brees has in the pocket - be more physical.... ONeil would need more than two weeks to make the switch back to LT. I would LOVE to see something innovative. Like Thomas doubled with two physical guys. Rhodes to disrupt him at the line and Kearse over the top. I would love to know why when playing against teams that base their offense on quick short timing routes, we never seem to try and bump their receivers off the line to disrupt them. it seems like eighty percent of the time our cb's are playing 5-7 yards off of the receivers...almost every play there is an easy 7-yard slant completion there if they want it...i think offenses don't take advantage more often because they don't want us to catch on and close the gap.... . . . . And it's frustrating as hell when they play 8 yards back on 3rd and three. I just don't get it. What the hell are they thinking?

hagar -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/31/2019 10:38:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke This just in. Beating good teams is hard. Most playoff teams get there by pounding bad teams and doing so-so at best against good teams. winning barely enough to get by. The Vikings aren't there yet. We pound the bad teams and do very poor against good teams. We really just need to beat one or two good teams in a season and then we'd be a legit contender. So far the only season that happened was 2017. Exactly! In 2017 we beat a really good Saints team at home and a really good Falcons team on the road if my memory serves me correctly. I'm definitely not asking to win them all. Winning one or two is a huge difference when it comes to playoff seeding. I'm not ready to throw Cousins to the curb. Now if he comes out this week and gets another 7 first downs I may rethink things. I'd really like to see what this offense could do if we had a more offense minded coach and maybe 1 more lineman upgraded. Get a serviceable 3rd target too! That shouldn't be that hard to do. In the meantime show some frickin heart this weekend! I don't expect a win, just want our team to fight. Let's start by not going 2-4 in our own division. We have not beaten the Bears since Cousins arrived. We're 1-2-1 vs the Packers. Thank the maker that the Lions find ways to **** it up or we may have gone 0-6 vs our own division this year. Good news, vs the rest of the league we were 8-2. We can beat people. We can beat people. It's just impossible to know which Viking team is going to show up. Will it be the team that can score 30 points and occasionally stop the other team on D, or, will it be the team that collectively leaves a steaming pile at mid-field?

hagar -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/31/2019 10:51:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pager https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/12/30/21043756/zimmer-cant-beat-playoff-teams-in-the-regular-season-when-they-score Interesting read. What that article made perfectly clear to me is that the loser Cousins just doesn't play defense as well as his predecessors and especially on 3rd down. We desperately need a more defensively minded QB. [:D]

kwheats -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/31/2019 11:00:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hagar quote: ORIGINAL: Pager https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/12/30/21043756/zimmer-cant-beat-playoff-teams-in-the-regular-season-when-they-score Interesting read. What that article made perfectly clear to me is that the loser Cousins just doesn't play defense as well as his predecessors and especially on 3rd down. We desperately need a more defensively minded QB. [:D] Bingo!!![:D]

hagar -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/31/2019 11:02:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Ragnarök quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . . zimmer is definitely trying to get his players riled up with the 'nobody respects us' mantra...'nobody thinks we can win this game'...'the nfl made a video with all the playoff teams in it except us'...there is going to be a lot of negative press clippings on the lockerroom pin-up board this week.... Maybe the master of building up the team going into big games can redo his motivational stuffed animal massacre again, that worked so well the first time... How about you just F u C KING put in a solid week of serious prep where you honestly evaluate every man on the team who can start and place them in the best situations to do their given jobs to exploit Saints weakness or shore up our own, entrenched starters be damned... And you know... have a real game plan and expected adjustments which can be implemented in real game speed... hmmm... that would be genius no? No excuses. I mean, they didn't really need to game plan vs. the Bears. So hopefully they were already planning for the playoffs. Seriously, I will really be disappointed if I don't see some changes. I believe that Zimmer showed his genius by knowing that we wouldn't win the division even if we beat the packers. So, basically we had a bye week with an exhibition game for the back-ups and practice squad players against the bears. Many teams fight hard to get that coveted bye week before their first playoff game. Zimmer made it possible for us to get a bye week as a 6 seed. Genius. [8\|]

hagar -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/31/2019 11:11:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kwheats quote: ORIGINAL: hagar quote: ORIGINAL: Pager https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/12/30/21043756/zimmer-cant-beat-playoff-teams-in-the-regular-season-when-they-score Interesting read. What that article made perfectly clear to me is that the loser Cousins just doesn't play defense as well as his predecessors and especially on 3rd down. We desperately need a more defensively minded QB. [:D] Bingo!!![:D] [sm=occasion14.gif]

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/1/2020 1:52:51 AM)
. . Chris Tomasson@christomasson Ifeadi Odenigbo was third on the #Vikings with seven sacks and led the team in sacks per snap (one every 42.9). He played 300 snaps. If he had played the same number of snaps this season as Danielle Hunter's 881, Odenigbo would have had 20.5 sacks. Hunter had 14.5.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/1/2020 3:35:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hagar quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: hagar quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson Oli Udoh flashed both in pass protection and in run blocking yesterday. Here's a few snaps of his at right tackle going up against Khalil Mack: https://twitter.com/i/status/1211734416864743424 it would be huge if we could count on udoh at rt next season - o'neill at lt.... Personally I would bench Reiff and start Udoh for the playoffs. That's me. I mean, I figure we have to do something different than what we've been doing. On defense I would start Odenigbo ahead of Everson Griffen and i would play Kearse on nickel downs. i agree that if the defense goes out there and just plays our straight up game we'll get hammered...especially with all the zone we've been playing this season...we need to change some things - shorten the time brees has in the pocket - be more physical.... ONeil would need more than two weeks to make the switch back to LT. I would LOVE to see something innovative. Like Thomas doubled with two physical guys. Rhodes to disrupt him at the line and Kearse over the top. I would love to know why when playing against teams that base their offense on quick short timing routes, we never seem to try and bump their receivers off the line to disrupt them. it seems like eighty percent of the time our cb's are playing 5-7 yards off of the receivers...almost every play there is an easy 7-yard slant completion there if they want it...i think offenses don't take advantage more often because they don't want us to catch on and close the gap.... . . . . And it's frustrating as hell when they play 8 yards back on 3rd and three. I just don't get it. What the hell are they thinking? i can't believe that zimmer gives his cb's that type of freedom...my five-year-old could run a 1st down slant under those conditions....

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/1/2020 4:55:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kwheats Sorry about the long post!!![&o] It was a good one, though. It clearly is saying that Cousins is not the problem. The offense has tried to run the ball more this year. That should have also helped the defense. It feels like Rhodes is the main reason for the defenses regression. In the past they didn't even throw his direction.

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/1/2020 4:57:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . . Chris Tomasson@christomasson Ifeadi Odenigbo was third on the #Vikings with seven sacks and led the team in sacks per snap (one every 42.9). He played 300 snaps. If he had played the same number of snaps this season as Danielle Hunter's 881, Odenigbo would have had 20.5 sacks. Hunter had 14.5. I was saying the other day he should be starting, now. I bet he doesn't have the offside penalties that Everson Griffen commits, too.

SoMnFan -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/1/2020 7:24:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rob Viking quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: CPAMAN quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . . Odds To Win Super Bowl 54 Team Odds Baltimore Ravens +220 Kansas City Chiefs +375 San Francisco 49ers +400 New Orleans Saints +600 Green Bay Packers +1000 New England Patriots +1000 Philadelphia Eagles +2800 Seattle Seahawks +2800 Houston Texans +4000 Minnesota Vikings +4000 Tennessee Titans +4500 Buffalo Bills +5000 I cannot agree that KC is the second rated team above San Fran, NO, NE, and probably even Seattle. You should bet on Seattle. $100 will return $2900. Think the Saints are decent value. Titans as a flyer at 45-1 ain't bad. Pats have everyone snowed. Best money out there. Always.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/1/2020 8:55:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . . Chris Tomasson@christomasson Ifeadi Odenigbo was third on the #Vikings with seven sacks and led the team in sacks per snap (one every 42.9). He played 300 snaps. If he had played the same number of snaps this season as Danielle Hunter's 881, Odenigbo would have had 20.5 sacks. Hunter had 14.5. I was saying the other day he should be starting, now. I bet he doesn't have the offside penalties that Everson Griffen commits, too. We have him under contract for 2 more years(including RFA year). I think most of our salary cap decisions are pretty easy. Cut Reiff, Rhodes and Joseph saves you about 25-30M. Others who could be on the chopping block: Rudolph, Griffen, Elflein Draft a fatty DT Franchise Harris or Waynes Draft a CB Draft a QB and WR

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/1/2020 9:23:02 AM)
Watts is going to be out, which explains the pickup of the d-lineman from Buffalo. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/01/01/vikings-put-armon-watts-on-ir/

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/1/2020 10:27:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . . Chris Tomasson@christomasson Ifeadi Odenigbo was third on the #Vikings with seven sacks and led the team in sacks per snap (one every 42.9). He played 300 snaps. If he had played the same number of snaps this season as Danielle Hunter's 881, Odenigbo would have had 20.5 sacks. Hunter had 14.5. I was saying the other day he should be starting, now. I bet he doesn't have the offside penalties that Everson Griffen commits, too. We have him under contract for 2 more years(including RFA year). I think most of our salary cap decisions are pretty easy. Cut Reiff, Rhodes and Joseph saves you about 25-30M. Others who could be on the chopping block: Rudolph, Griffen, Elflein Draft a fatty DT Franchise Harris or Waynes Draft a CB Draft a QB and WR quote: Odenigbo rudolph cost us just $1.8m if you include the dead cap - his dead cap is a slow burn and one would think that we'll have to take the hit sometime over the next two years.... elflein cost us just $900k over the dead cap - he's not going anywhere griffen has a $13.8m cap hit with only $800k dead cap - but he's still a good player - i believe he's top 10 in qb pressures...i'd try to negotiate a more friendly cap hit, but this might be a good time to trade/cut him....

Dave Odle -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/1/2020 3:39:51 PM)
There's a rumor here in Dallas that isn't dying. Since Jerry Jones is still silent about Garrett, a lot of chatter is circulating that he's waiting to see if Zimmer is available after Sunday's game. I guess you never know. Zim has ties to Dallas and everyone knows Jerry's ex-offensive coordinator isn't available in Sean Payton (who is rumored to be his first choice).

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