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JT2 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 12:57:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Kirk doesn’t help his OL when he holds onto the ball forever.

Seems to me other teams negate a pass rush with quick throws.

Cousins seems to miss deep throw TDs when he has time.

I am glad Speilman has time to F around drafting and trading for kickers every year.



3 TE sets way too often. Only one of them with any speed. Slow FB. And your 2 WR's running too deep of routes.

As mentioned by others, we need 3 WR's on the field way more often, and at least one of them needs to be running shallow, quick routes. Hit them in stride for a possible quick, big play, instead of this weakass dump off shit to Ham when he has his back to the defense.

Throwing the ball to Ham, or Rudolph for that matter, is Zimmer tough guy football.

Every team in the league has 4 WR's that can play when necessary. We can't find 3? Well, I doubt Zimmer even wants 3.

Even though it was garbage time, Johnson looked like he knew what he was doing out there.
Routes looked crisp. He goes to the ball, extends his arms and catches with his hands while looking it all the way in.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 12:59:21 PM)

I take these losses hard like we all do. I'm going to take a break and come back later and try to regain my positivity.




Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 1:01:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Kirk doesn’t help his OL when he holds onto the ball forever.

Seems to me other teams negate a pass rush with quick throws.

Cousins seems to miss deep throw TDs when he has time.

I am glad Speilman has time to F around drafting and trading for kickers every year.



3 TE sets way too often. Only one of them with any speed. Slow FB. And your 2 WR's running too deep of routes.

As mentioned by others, we need 3 WR's on the field way more often, and at least one of them needs to be running shallow, quick routes. Hit them in stride for a possible quick, big play, instead of this weakass dump off shit to Ham when he has his back to the defense.

Throwing the ball to Ham, or Rudolph for that matter, is Zimmer tough guy football.

Every team in the league has 4 WR's that can play when necessary. We can't find 3? Well, I doubt Zimmer even wants 3.

Even though it was garbage time, Johnson looked like he knew what he was doing out there.
Routes looked crisp. He goes to the ball, extends his arms and catches with his hands while looking it all the way in.

I know the coaches know better but a lot of people in here were calling for Johnson in preseason. At least he looks like a wideout on the field. Zimmer clearly has his head up his posterior far too often.




JT2 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 1:08:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Kirk doesn’t help his OL when he holds onto the ball forever.

Seems to me other teams negate a pass rush with quick throws.

Cousins seems to miss deep throw TDs when he has time.

I am glad Speilman has time to F around drafting and trading for kickers every year.



3 TE sets way too often. Only one of them with any speed. Slow FB. And your 2 WR's running too deep of routes.

As mentioned by others, we need 3 WR's on the field way more often, and at least one of them needs to be running shallow, quick routes. Hit them in stride for a possible quick, big play, instead of this weakass dump off shit to Ham when he has his back to the defense.

Throwing the ball to Ham, or Rudolph for that matter, is Zimmer tough guy football.

Every team in the league has 4 WR's that can play when necessary. We can't find 3? Well, I doubt Zimmer even wants 3.

Even though it was garbage time, Johnson looked like he knew what he was doing out there.
Routes looked crisp. He goes to the ball, extends his arms and catches with his hands while looking it all the way in.

I know the coaches know better but a lot of people in here were calling for Johnson in preseason. At least he looks like a wideout on the field. Zimmer clearly has his head up his posterior far too often.



I honestly think he doesn't really care for that fancy, modern position in general.




Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 1:15:15 PM)

Looking at our schedule it's going to be tough to even get a wildcard.

Right now it looks pretty damn tough!




ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 1:31:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

Looking at our schedule it's going to be tough to even get a wildcard.

Right now it looks pretty damn tough!


I think they are toast.

If you think they have a chance the Philly game is huge.




ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 1:39:57 PM)

.
.
Andrew Krammer@Andrew_Krammer
Credit Dalvin Cook and Adam Thielen, the only two #Vikings starters to field questions during today's open locker room period.
Thielen: "We know how good 8 is, we know how good he can be. We know how good this O-line can be. ... We know how good we can be."

Andrew Krammer@Andrew_Krammer
Thielen: "My comments after the game were in a very broad sense. Any team is going to tell you you can't be one dimensional. That's not a shot at anyone, at coaches, players, nobody. That's just being real and saying you can't just be a run team. ..have to do both well." #Vikings

Chris Tomasson@christomasson
#Vikings WR Adam Thielen 1/2: "Coming off of a tough loss, how are we going to work in practice? How are we going to handle the frustration? Are we going to use it as a positive and stay positive this week or are we going to go down the dump?"

Chris Tomasson@christomasson
#Vikings Adam Thielen 2/2 "I think (Sunday's game at New York is) a great opportunity to see what kind of guys we have in this locker room. I think I have a good idea what that response will be because we have so many great guys in this locker room but we got to go out and do it"




David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 1:46:36 PM)

Here's a GIF of 'the timeout'. It's still too difficult for me to count the Vikings on the field. But then I noticed something else - THE BEARS WEREN'T EVEN LINED UP AND SET! They weren't even a threat to snap the ball.

[X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(]

http://www.sbnationradio.com/the-9-dumbest-mistakes-from-a-messy-nfl-week-4-ranked/




jbusse -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 1:51:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Here's a GIF of 'the timeout'. It's still too difficult for me to count the Vikings on the field. But then I noticed something else - THE BEARS WEREN'T EVEN LINED UP AND SET! They weren't even a threat to snap the ball.

[X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(]

http://www.sbnationradio.com/the-9-dumbest-mistakes-from-a-messy-nfl-week-4-ranked/

On the level of some of Mike Tice's blunders.




JT2 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 1:56:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Here's a GIF of 'the timeout'. It's still too difficult for me to count the Vikings on the field. But then I noticed something else - THE BEARS WEREN'T EVEN LINED UP AND SET! They weren't even a threat to snap the ball.

[X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(][X(]

http://www.sbnationradio.com/the-9-dumbest-mistakes-from-a-messy-nfl-week-4-ranked/


I said it yesterday, they had no intention of snapping the ball. We weren't going to get penalized, even if we had 12 on the field.




Ush -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 2:01:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Kirk doesn’t help his OL when he holds onto the ball forever.

Seems to me other teams negate a pass rush with quick throws.

Cousins seems to miss deep throw TDs when he has time.

I am glad Speilman has time to F around drafting and trading for kickers every year.


Like the Bears did to us yesterday




jbusse -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 2:01:49 PM)

Sam Monson
@PFF_Sam

Garrett Bradbury has allowed 13 total pressures in 4 games.

Rodney Hudson allowed 5 total in 2018.

He's on course to allow 15 more than any C in football did last year.

Vikings line has been a real limiting factor for years, but what's really concerning is it's not getting better as they throw resources at it.

It's super early on Bradbury, but he's as bad as Elflein ever was right now overall, and Elflein's still there! Just in a new spot.

And a reminder: they passed up the chance to take Andre Dillard - a player at a significantly more valuable position - to take Bradbury.

That would be questionable if they were both good, but if the one you take turns out to be bad and the other good? Whooo boy.

Btw, it's not all the OL.

Kirk Cousins has the highest average time to throw in the NFL through 4 weeks.

QBs control their pressure rate more than any other single variable, and Cousins is screwing himself.




SoMnFan -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 2:11:55 PM)

Kirk Cousins has the highest average time to throw in the NFL through 4 weeks.

Ok, now I feel even worse about him …. and us.




Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 2:14:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Sam Monson
@PFF_Sam

Garrett Bradbury has allowed 13 total pressures in 4 games.

Rodney Hudson allowed 5 total in 2018.

He's on course to allow 15 more than any C in football did last year.

Vikings line has been a real limiting factor for years, but what's really concerning is it's not getting better as they throw resources at it.

It's super early on Bradbury, but he's as bad as Elflein ever was right now overall, and Elflein's still there! Just in a new spot.

And a reminder: they passed up the chance to take Andre Dillard - a player at a significantly more valuable position - to take Bradbury.

That would be questionable if they were both good, but if the one you take turns out to be bad and the other good? Whooo boy.

Btw, it's not all the OL.

Kirk Cousins has the highest average time to throw in the NFL through 4 weeks.

QBs control their pressure rate more than any other single variable, and Cousins is screwing himself.

I don't know if that's true or not but I can see that Cousins is a huge reason for a lot of the problems.




Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 2:15:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Kirk Cousins has the highest average time to throw in the NFL through 4 weeks.

Ok, now I feel even worse about him …. and us.

We have a qb problem whether they want to admit it or not. Can it get better? I sure hope so.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 2:34:39 PM)

Random musings:

At 2-2 after being @ GB and @ Chi, we are about what was expected.

I was shocked the bears went on a ~14 play drive with a backup QB culminating in a TD to start the game. Rhodes gave up a huge play; Barr was used by Cohen. Then Cook ran into walls at the LOS. Out of the gate it was going to be "one of those (crappy)" games.

Down to hoping one of Elf and Bradbury pan out, and that Kline can be above average. Pretty sad hope. Perhaps with all the emphasis on the run in the preseason, they didn't get enough pass blocking work.

Cousins isn't going to get better until the OL helps and he gets rid of the ball faster. I have hope for the second part if Smith Jr. emerges and we can run effectively, but I don't think the OL will do well enough this year for KC's jitters to go away.

With parity and barring a meltdown, we will be what-iffing games and schedules for playoff hopes.




Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 2:50:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Kirk doesn’t help his OL when he holds onto the ball forever.

Seems to me other teams negate a pass rush with quick throws.

Cousins seems to miss deep throw TDs when he has time.

I am glad Speilman has time to F around drafting and trading for kickers every year.



3 TE sets way too often. Only one of them with any speed. Slow FB. And your 2 WR's running too deep of routes.

As mentioned by others, we need 3 WR's on the field way more often, and at least one of them needs to be running shallow, quick routes. Hit them in stride for a possible quick, big play, instead of this weakass dump off shit to Ham when he has his back to the defense.

Throwing the ball to Ham, or Rudolph for that matter, is Zimmer tough guy football.

Every team in the league has 4 WR's that can play when necessary. We can't find 3? Well, I doubt Zimmer even wants 3.

Even though it was garbage time, Johnson looked like he knew what he was doing out there.
Routes looked crisp. He goes to the ball, extends his arms and catches with his hands while looking it all the way in.


We don't need 4 WR sets....Smith, Bisi, Thielen, Diggs. Rudolph can get separation off of the line also. Bisi and Smith were open on short shots at the end.




David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 2:55:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Kirk doesn’t help his OL when he holds onto the ball forever.

Seems to me other teams negate a pass rush with quick throws.

Cousins seems to miss deep throw TDs when he has time.

I am glad Speilman has time to F around drafting and trading for kickers every year.



3 TE sets way too often. Only one of them with any speed. Slow FB. And your 2 WR's running too deep of routes.

As mentioned by others, we need 3 WR's on the field way more often, and at least one of them needs to be running shallow, quick routes. Hit them in stride for a possible quick, big play, instead of this weakass dump off shit to Ham when he has his back to the defense.

Throwing the ball to Ham, or Rudolph for that matter, is Zimmer tough guy football.

Every team in the league has 4 WR's that can play when necessary. We can't find 3? Well, I doubt Zimmer even wants 3.

Even though it was garbage time, Johnson looked like he knew what he was doing out there.
Routes looked crisp. He goes to the ball, extends his arms and catches with his hands while looking it all the way in.


We don't need 4 WR sets....Smith, Bisi, Thielen, Diggs. Rudolph can get separation off of the line also. Bisi and Smith were open on short shots at the end.


Kyle Rudolph?




Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 3:03:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Interesting that a defensive guy like Zimmer has Cousins as his ride or die, which is how this likely plays out.

What I'd like to know is what level of analysis Spielman put into the decision to sign Cousins. Most of us are good enough armchair analysts to recognize that his passing stats as a Redskin looked pretty good compared to what Viking quarterbacks achieved in recent years (4,000+ yards, etc.). I was in favor of signing him, but analyzing KC's positives and negatives was not my full time job. Did the Viking scouts look closely at how he did under pressure, during periods when his O line wasn't at its best? It's difficult to believe that these shortcomings weren't evident during his Redskins years (a leopard can't change its spots). My sense is that Spielman prides himself on doing his homework, so I wonder what went wrong.

Spiels believed in Kirk's smile... There was and still is great upside in Kirk with right system and coaching to be an 8 plus game a season winner... We likely thought we could get more out of him and Im sure that with the recent hire of Flip he was very familiar with Kirk and had some major say as well setting up the captain for his new offense...

Plus there was little alternatives as everyone here kept pointing out... no one trusted our three QBs and options were limited beyond the tempting stats and arm of Kirk...

Is drafting a quarterback not considered acceptable except in rebuilding mode? Were the Vikings unwilling to wait on the development of a rookie QB, factoring in the risk that the rookie doesn't develop? In hindsight, win now approach has its own risks, especially when it relies heavily on the development of O-line draft picks.

We honestly felt we were one piece away from the Super Bowl and deemed Case as that weak link...

Adding Kirk and paying what he wanted was believed to be that magic bean...

Well guess what...

The golden goose doesnt really lay golden eggs, they are just rotten eggs and goose is getting Cook(ed) in this system...


I was certainly concerned about paying him that kind of coin. I didn't think he was worth that much. Others shot me down saying that is what the market says he's worth. Well guys, If this is what 84 Million buys us, I shudder to think what it will cost to get a real QB.




bohumm -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 3:12:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Kirk doesn’t help his OL when he holds onto the ball forever.

Seems to me other teams negate a pass rush with quick throws.

Cousins seems to miss deep throw TDs when he has time.

I am glad Speilman has time to F around drafting and trading for kickers every year.



3 TE sets way too often. Only one of them with any speed. Slow FB. And your 2 WR's running too deep of routes.

As mentioned by others, we need 3 WR's on the field way more often, and at least one of them needs to be running shallow, quick routes. Hit them in stride for a possible quick, big play, instead of this weakass dump off shit to Ham when he has his back to the defense.

Throwing the ball to Ham, or Rudolph for that matter, is Zimmer tough guy football.

Every team in the league has 4 WR's that can play when necessary. We can't find 3? Well, I doubt Zimmer even wants 3.

Even though it was garbage time, Johnson looked like he knew what he was doing out there.
Routes looked crisp. He goes to the ball, extends his arms and catches with his hands while looking it all the way in.

I thought he showed enough to take a big chunk of FB/TE snaps from the offense. As you said, a slant or a drag route would do wonders for a scared QB.....




SoMnFan -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 3:16:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Kirk doesn’t help his OL when he holds onto the ball forever.

Seems to me other teams negate a pass rush with quick throws.

Cousins seems to miss deep throw TDs when he has time.

I am glad Speilman has time to F around drafting and trading for kickers every year.



3 TE sets way too often. Only one of them with any speed. Slow FB. And your 2 WR's running too deep of routes.

As mentioned by others, we need 3 WR's on the field way more often, and at least one of them needs to be running shallow, quick routes. Hit them in stride for a possible quick, big play, instead of this weakass dump off shit to Ham when he has his back to the defense.

Throwing the ball to Ham, or Rudolph for that matter, is Zimmer tough guy football.

Every team in the league has 4 WR's that can play when necessary. We can't find 3? Well, I doubt Zimmer even wants 3.

Even though it was garbage time, Johnson looked like he knew what he was doing out there.
Routes looked crisp. He goes to the ball, extends his arms and catches with his hands while looking it all the way in.

Amen. Great post imo. Or at least, exactly what I saw/see. Thielen was intimating it …. we're wanting to be something that won't succeed in today's league.




bohumm -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 3:16:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Sam Monson
@PFF_Sam

Garrett Bradbury has allowed 13 total pressures in 4 games.

Rodney Hudson allowed 5 total in 2018.

He's on course to allow 15 more than any C in football did last year.

Vikings line has been a real limiting factor for years, but what's really concerning is it's not getting better as they throw resources at it.

It's super early on Bradbury, but he's as bad as Elflein ever was right now overall, and Elflein's still there! Just in a new spot.

And a reminder: they passed up the chance to take Andre Dillard - a player at a significantly more valuable position - to take Bradbury.

That would be questionable if they were both good, but if the one you take turns out to be bad and the other good? Whooo boy.

Btw, it's not all the OL.

Kirk Cousins has the highest average time to throw in the NFL through 4 weeks.

QBs control their pressure rate more than any other single variable, and Cousins is screwing himself.

Kind of a worst case scenario when you combine an OL who can't hold their blocks with a QB who won't let go of the ball, or who is waiting for an 18-yard out.




bohumm -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 3:18:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Kirk doesn’t help his OL when he holds onto the ball forever.

Seems to me other teams negate a pass rush with quick throws.

Cousins seems to miss deep throw TDs when he has time.

I am glad Speilman has time to F around drafting and trading for kickers every year.



3 TE sets way too often. Only one of them with any speed. Slow FB. And your 2 WR's running too deep of routes.

As mentioned by others, we need 3 WR's on the field way more often, and at least one of them needs to be running shallow, quick routes. Hit them in stride for a possible quick, big play, instead of this weakass dump off shit to Ham when he has his back to the defense.

Throwing the ball to Ham, or Rudolph for that matter, is Zimmer tough guy football.

Every team in the league has 4 WR's that can play when necessary. We can't find 3? Well, I doubt Zimmer even wants 3.

Even though it was garbage time, Johnson looked like he knew what he was doing out there.
Routes looked crisp. He goes to the ball, extends his arms and catches with his hands while looking it all the way in.


We don't need 4 WR sets....Smith, Bisi, Thielen, Diggs. Rudolph can get separation off of the line also. Bisi and Smith were open on short shots at the end.


Kyle Rudolph?

Oh...I was going to counter that I'd rather see Prancer in those sets.




Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 3:34:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Kirk doesn’t help his OL when he holds onto the ball forever.

Seems to me other teams negate a pass rush with quick throws.

Cousins seems to miss deep throw TDs when he has time.

I am glad Speilman has time to F around drafting and trading for kickers every year.



3 TE sets way too often. Only one of them with any speed. Slow FB. And your 2 WR's running too deep of routes.

As mentioned by others, we need 3 WR's on the field way more often, and at least one of them needs to be running shallow, quick routes. Hit them in stride for a possible quick, big play, instead of this weakass dump off shit to Ham when he has his back to the defense.

Throwing the ball to Ham, or Rudolph for that matter, is Zimmer tough guy football.

Every team in the league has 4 WR's that can play when necessary. We can't find 3? Well, I doubt Zimmer even wants 3.

Even though it was garbage time, Johnson looked like he knew what he was doing out there.
Routes looked crisp. He goes to the ball, extends his arms and catches with his hands while looking it all the way in.


We don't need 4 WR sets....Smith, Bisi, Thielen, Diggs. Rudolph can get separation off of the line also. Bisi and Smith were open on short shots at the end.


Kyle Rudolph?

Oh...I was going to counter that I'd rather see Prancer in those sets.

Maybe Prancer would have some moves at least!




jbusse -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/30/2019 4:52:39 PM)

Fun fact: Eric Bieniemy, who served as the Vikings running backs coach under Brad Childress, is the Kansas City Chiefs offensive coordinator. He replaced Matt Nagy as KC offensive coordinator when Nagy became Bears head coach.




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