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Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/8/2019 2:45:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson If I'm not mistaken two of Smith's receptions were negated by penalties. 1 had the penalty added on to the end of the play (block in the back?), reducing the length of the catch. And another where the reception was negated (the catch were he was flipped over vs NY). If I remember correctly.

jbusse -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/8/2019 5:04:48 PM)
Roc Thomas tried out for the Packers on Monday, freelance NFL writer Howard Balzer reports. It was the first tryout Thomas has received after he was reinstated to the NFL after serving a three-game suspension for violating the league's substance-abuse policy. The 24-year-old suited up in just five games for the Vikings last season, rushing for 30 yards on eight attempts and hauling in two of four targets.

joejitsu -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/8/2019 5:39:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz Where's Rudy? Through 5 games he has 6 catches for 36 yards. More like 'where's Swirvin Irvin'? Rudy continues to get the largest share of snaps while Smith Jr. only gets in about half of them. He's a superior receiver and AT A MINIMUM blocks just as well as Rudy. Game 1: Rudy 100%, Smith 48% Game 2: Rudy 100%, Smith 42% Game 3: Rudy 87%, Smith 49% Game 4: Rudy 84%, Smith 47% Game 5: Rudy 90%, Smith 51% Smith: 6 targets, 5 receptions, 64 yards, 12.8 yards/reception. Rudy: 8 targets, 6 receptions, 36 yards, 6 yards/reception. We're clearly not targeting the TE position enough (2/game), and we're absolutely not using Smith nearly as much as we should. Smith is a matchup nightmare for lb's and safeties. He's got to be on the field in different situations, whether it be inline or out wide. We know what Rudy can do. His strengths do not include taking the top off the defense. Smith is able to do this.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/8/2019 6:08:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz Where's Rudy? Through 5 games he has 6 catches for 36 yards. More like 'where's Swirvin Irvin'? Rudy continues to get the largest share of snaps while Smith Jr. only gets in about half of them. He's a superior receiver and AT A MINIMUM blocks just as well as Rudy. Game 1: Rudy 100%, Smith 48% Game 2: Rudy 100%, Smith 42% Game 3: Rudy 87%, Smith 49% Game 4: Rudy 84%, Smith 47% Game 5: Rudy 90%, Smith 51% Smith: 6 targets, 5 receptions, 64 yards, 12.8 yards/reception. Rudy: 8 targets, 6 receptions, 36 yards, 6 yards/reception. We're clearly not targeting the TE position enough (2/game), and we're absolutely not using Smith nearly as much as we should. Smith is a matchup nightmare for lb's and safeties. He's got to be on the field in different situations, whether it be inline or out wide. We know what Rudy can do. His strengths do not include taking the top off the defense. Smith is able to do this. What makes Smith a matchup nightmare?

joejitsu -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/8/2019 6:15:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz Where's Rudy? Through 5 games he has 6 catches for 36 yards. More like 'where's Swirvin Irvin'? Rudy continues to get the largest share of snaps while Smith Jr. only gets in about half of them. He's a superior receiver and AT A MINIMUM blocks just as well as Rudy. Game 1: Rudy 100%, Smith 48% Game 2: Rudy 100%, Smith 42% Game 3: Rudy 87%, Smith 49% Game 4: Rudy 84%, Smith 47% Game 5: Rudy 90%, Smith 51% Smith: 6 targets, 5 receptions, 64 yards, 12.8 yards/reception. Rudy: 8 targets, 6 receptions, 36 yards, 6 yards/reception. We're clearly not targeting the TE position enough (2/game), and we're absolutely not using Smith nearly as much as we should. Smith is a matchup nightmare for lb's and safeties. He's got to be on the field in different situations, whether it be inline or out wide. We know what Rudy can do. His strengths do not include taking the top off the defense. Smith is able to do this. What makes Smith a matchup nightmare? Size/speed ratio and route tree. I watched him enough at Alabama to know what he is capable of. His blocking is underrated, too.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/8/2019 6:44:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz Where's Rudy? Through 5 games he has 6 catches for 36 yards. More like 'where's Swirvin Irvin'? Rudy continues to get the largest share of snaps while Smith Jr. only gets in about half of them. He's a superior receiver and AT A MINIMUM blocks just as well as Rudy. Game 1: Rudy 100%, Smith 48% Game 2: Rudy 100%, Smith 42% Game 3: Rudy 87%, Smith 49% Game 4: Rudy 84%, Smith 47% Game 5: Rudy 90%, Smith 51% Smith: 6 targets, 5 receptions, 64 yards, 12.8 yards/reception. Rudy: 8 targets, 6 receptions, 36 yards, 6 yards/reception. We're clearly not targeting the TE position enough (2/game), and we're absolutely not using Smith nearly as much as we should. Smith is a matchup nightmare for lb's and safeties. He's got to be on the field in different situations, whether it be inline or out wide. We know what Rudy can do. His strengths do not include taking the top off the defense. Smith is able to do this. What makes Smith a matchup nightmare? Size/speed ratio and route tree. I watched him enough at Alabama to know what he is capable of. His blocking is underrated, too. I enjoyed watching him in college too ... versatile, a savy and solid physical presence in the passing game. And an underrated blocker. But at 6'2 242 with a 4.63 sec / 32.5 vert, I'm not sure he is a nightmare for NFL LBs or DBs. He's a little heavier (but slower) than a lot of big WRs. I look forward to seeing Smith take over the TE position. Hopefully soon. And relegating Slo-Mo Rudolph to a vastly overpaid complimentary role. I think we are a ways away from seeing Smith supplant big body Rudolph in the red zone and short yardage situations though. Blocking and down the field ... Smith is already there if not real close.

joejitsu -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/8/2019 7:08:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz Where's Rudy? Through 5 games he has 6 catches for 36 yards. More like 'where's Swirvin Irvin'? Rudy continues to get the largest share of snaps while Smith Jr. only gets in about half of them. He's a superior receiver and AT A MINIMUM blocks just as well as Rudy. Game 1: Rudy 100%, Smith 48% Game 2: Rudy 100%, Smith 42% Game 3: Rudy 87%, Smith 49% Game 4: Rudy 84%, Smith 47% Game 5: Rudy 90%, Smith 51% Smith: 6 targets, 5 receptions, 64 yards, 12.8 yards/reception. Rudy: 8 targets, 6 receptions, 36 yards, 6 yards/reception. We're clearly not targeting the TE position enough (2/game), and we're absolutely not using Smith nearly as much as we should. Smith is a matchup nightmare for lb's and safeties. He's got to be on the field in different situations, whether it be inline or out wide. We know what Rudy can do. His strengths do not include taking the top off the defense. Smith is able to do this. What makes Smith a matchup nightmare? Size/speed ratio and route tree. I watched him enough at Alabama to know what he is capable of. His blocking is underrated, too. I enjoyed watching him in college too ... versatile, a savy and solid physical presence in the passing game. And an underrated blocker. But at 6'2 242 with a 4.63 sec / 32.5 vert, I'm not sure he is a nightmare for NFL LBs or DBs. He's a little heavier (but slower) than a lot of big WRs. I look forward to seeing Smith take over the TE position. Hopefully soon. And relegating Slo-Mo Rudolph to a vastly overpaid complimentary role. I think we are a ways away from seeing Smith supplant big body Rudolph in the red zone and short yardage situations though. Blocking and down the field ... Smith is already there if not real close. Good points, Tom.

thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/8/2019 7:20:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rob Viking quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson By the end of the season Smith will have more snaps in a game than Rudy, I believe. We'll see. There's obviously the learning curve with the new offense, but it's only a matter of time Smith will be the TE1. My guess is right after the bye, there's no way the coaches don't see this game in and game out plus practice. Sloter will probably be starting after the bye too. [8D]

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/8/2019 7:39:42 PM)
I was pro Rudy but wanted us to simply play out this last year of his contract. Re-signing him was not very GM savvy. Too many better pass catchers on this team to pay Rudy top dollar esp when his blocking isn't all that. Very poor bang for your buck by Spielman. Esp when you consider our cap number. Drafting Irv was a good pick but it was then negated by inking Rudy......highly questionable move.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/8/2019 7:55:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz Where's Rudy? Through 5 games he has 6 catches for 36 yards. More like 'where's Swirvin Irvin'? Rudy continues to get the largest share of snaps while Smith Jr. only gets in about half of them. He's a superior receiver and AT A MINIMUM blocks just as well as Rudy. Game 1: Rudy 100%, Smith 48% Game 2: Rudy 100%, Smith 42% Game 3: Rudy 87%, Smith 49% Game 4: Rudy 84%, Smith 47% Game 5: Rudy 90%, Smith 51% Smith: 6 targets, 5 receptions, 64 yards, 12.8 yards/reception. Rudy: 8 targets, 6 receptions, 36 yards, 6 yards/reception. We're clearly not targeting the TE position enough (2/game), and we're absolutely not using Smith nearly as much as we should. Smith is a matchup nightmare for lb's and safeties. He's got to be on the field in different situations, whether it be inline or out wide. We know what Rudy can do. His strengths do not include taking the top off the defense. Smith is able to do this. What makes Smith a matchup nightmare? Size/speed ratio and route tree. I watched him enough at Alabama to know what he is capable of. His blocking is underrated, too. I enjoyed watching him in college too ... versatile, a savy and solid physical presence in the passing game. And an underrated blocker. But at 6'2 242 with a 4.63 sec / 32.5 vert, I'm not sure he is a nightmare for NFL LBs or DBs. He's a little heavier (but slower) than a lot of big WRs. I look forward to seeing Smith take over the TE position. Hopefully soon. And relegating Slo-Mo Rudolph to a vastly overpaid complimentary role. I think we are a ways away from seeing Smith supplant big body Rudolph in the red zone and short yardage situations though. Blocking and down the field ... Smith is already there if not real close. Good points, Tom. Well you cut me down at the knees. LOL I had forgotten how to be civil (in here). Thanks!

GopherFan34 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/8/2019 8:39:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson By the end of the season Smith will have more snaps in a game than Rudy, I believe. We'll see. Trade Rudy now while you can get something for him. Getting his contract off the books would be motivation enough... you can see the kid has the goods to take over. They tried to trade him in the offseason. Even though Rudy himself claimed there were 'multiple teams interested' nothing ever came to be. Fans might have trouble seeing past a good-looking, white, Notre Dame alum who does all the right things in the community to see his real value but rest assured other teams don't. What does "being white" have to do with anything. You could have thrown white privilege in there and all your virtue signaling friends would have been so proud.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/8/2019 8:54:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GopherFan34 quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson By the end of the season Smith will have more snaps in a game than Rudy, I believe. We'll see. Trade Rudy now while you can get something for him. Getting his contract off the books would be motivation enough... you can see the kid has the goods to take over. They tried to trade him in the offseason. Even though Rudy himself claimed there were 'multiple teams interested' nothing ever came to be. Fans might have trouble seeing past a good-looking, white, Notre Dame alum who does all the right things in the community to see his real value but rest assured other teams don't. What does "being white" have to do with anything. You could have thrown white privilege in there and all your virtue signaling friends would have been so proud. Being white helps his fan favorite status. I don’t make the rules I just call it like I see it.

thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/8/2019 9:50:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: GopherFan34 quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson By the end of the season Smith will have more snaps in a game than Rudy, I believe. We'll see. Trade Rudy now while you can get something for him. Getting his contract off the books would be motivation enough... you can see the kid has the goods to take over. They tried to trade him in the offseason. Even though Rudy himself claimed there were 'multiple teams interested' nothing ever came to be. Fans might have trouble seeing past a good-looking, white, Notre Dame alum who does all the right things in the community to see his real value but rest assured other teams don't. What does "being white" have to do with anything. You could have thrown white privilege in there and all your virtue signaling friends would have been so proud. Being white helps his fan favorite status. I don’t make the rules I just call it like I see it. You can't blame Diggs for being upset with things, I mean what with Thielen being white, you know Cousins would much rather throw him the ball. Just the way it works.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/8/2019 10:08:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: GopherFan34 quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson By the end of the season Smith will have more snaps in a game than Rudy, I believe. We'll see. Trade Rudy now while you can get something for him. Getting his contract off the books would be motivation enough... you can see the kid has the goods to take over. They tried to trade him in the offseason. Even though Rudy himself claimed there were 'multiple teams interested' nothing ever came to be. Fans might have trouble seeing past a good-looking, white, Notre Dame alum who does all the right things in the community to see his real value but rest assured other teams don't. What does "being white" have to do with anything. You could have thrown white privilege in there and all your virtue signaling friends would have been so proud. Being white helps his fan favorite status. I don’t make the rules I just call it like I see it. You can't blame Diggs for being upset with things, I mean what with Thielen being white, you know Cousins would much rather throw him the ball. Just the way it works. That's complete nonsense and also not even close to the same thing as I was talking about. I think you know that though. How are things? Everything OK?

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/8/2019 10:09:23 PM)
There's something to be said about liking a player who has been loyal to the organization for a number of years. Robison was another player like that. We root for of our players, of course, but there is something extra when a player these days stays with one team for his career.

thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/8/2019 11:07:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: GopherFan34 quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson By the end of the season Smith will have more snaps in a game than Rudy, I believe. We'll see. Trade Rudy now while you can get something for him. Getting his contract off the books would be motivation enough... you can see the kid has the goods to take over. They tried to trade him in the offseason. Even though Rudy himself claimed there were 'multiple teams interested' nothing ever came to be. Fans might have trouble seeing past a good-looking, white, Notre Dame alum who does all the right things in the community to see his real value but rest assured other teams don't. What does "being white" have to do with anything. You could have thrown white privilege in there and all your virtue signaling friends would have been so proud. Being white helps his fan favorite status. I don’t make the rules I just call it like I see it. You can't blame Diggs for being upset with things, I mean what with Thielen being white, you know Cousins would much rather throw him the ball. Just the way it works. That's complete nonsense and also not even close to the same thing as I was talking about. I think you know that though. How are things? Everything OK? Of course it's an exaggeration, but really not any sillier than your point.

thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/8/2019 11:08:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson There's something to be said about liking a player who has been loyal to the organization for a number of years. Robison was another player like that. We root for of our players, of course, but there is something extra when a player these days stays with one team for his career. Hmm, he's white too.

thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/8/2019 11:12:50 PM)
Probably my all-time favorite athletes: Teddy Bridgewater (the New Orleans thing really has me torn), Kirby Puckett, and Akeem Olajuwon. How can that be?

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/9/2019 1:41:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro I was pro Rudy but wanted us to simply play out this last year of his contract. Re-signing him was not very GM savvy. Too many better pass catchers on this team to pay Rudy top dollar esp when his blocking isn't all that. Very poor bang for your buck by Spielman. Esp when you consider our cap number. Drafting Irv was a good pick but it was then negated by inking Rudy......highly questionable move. yes, really...rudy's agent just outplayed spielman...if we were flush with cap space and a non contender then maybe we keep him around for pr reasons, but we're strapped and now we're probably going to have to give up a player that is more valuable to us than rudy....

jbusse -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/9/2019 6:06:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro I was pro Rudy but wanted us to simply play out this last year of his contract. Re-signing him was not very GM savvy. Too many better pass catchers on this team to pay Rudy top dollar esp when his blocking isn't all that. Very poor bang for your buck by Spielman. Esp when you consider our cap number. Drafting Irv was a good pick but it was then negated by inking Rudy......highly questionable move. yes, really...rudy's agent just outplayed spielman...if we were flush with cap space and a non contender then maybe we keep him around for pr reasons, but we're strapped and now we're probably going to have to give up a player that is more valuable to us than rudy.... My understanding is that they've only guaranteed Rudolph $1.625 million more relative to the prior deal, with the main advantage for the Vikings being the extra $4 million in cap room shifted from next year to this year. In other words, if they cut him after the season, they will only be $1.625 million worse off compared to if they had let him play out his contract, even after accounting for the dead cap hit. You could argue that they shouldn't be borrowing from next year's cap to increase this year's cap space, but that is a different argument.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/9/2019 6:52:02 AM)
Rudolph contract per sportrac 2019........9.35ml.......dead cap 9.2ml 2020....... 7.35ml.................... 5.8 2021....... 8ml..........................4.35 2022....... 8.8ml.......................2.9 2023....... 10.2ml......................1.45

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/9/2019 7:14:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Rudolph contract per sportrac 2019........9.35ml.......dead cap 9.2ml 2020....... 7.35ml.................... 5.8 2021....... 8ml..........................4.35 2022....... 8.8ml.......................2.9 2023....... 10.2ml......................1.45 I am not worried---I think he will restructure after this year. The key will be to keep the cap number down, which they did. You have his cap hit wrong for 2019....it is only 3.5 million....they reduced his cap number by 4 million by extending him.

jbusse -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/9/2019 7:37:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Rudolph contract per sportrac 2019........9.35ml.......dead cap 9.2ml 2020....... 7.35ml.................... 5.8 2021....... 8ml..........................4.35 2022....... 8.8ml.......................2.9 2023....... 10.2ml......................1.45 I am not worried---I think he will restructure after this year. The key will be to keep the cap number down, which they did. You have his cap hit wrong for 2019....it is only 3.5 million....they reduced his cap number by 4 million by extending him. And if they cut him after the season, they are hit with $5.8 million, not $5.8+$4.35+$2.9+$1.45. They were already obligated to pay him this year, so the $5.8 million does not all represent a new obligation. Roughly a quarter of the $5.8 million is additional money that the Vikings are now obligated to pay him. It may seem like the $5.8 million is a large dead cap hit for next year, but the other possibility was to instead get hit with $4 million more this year.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/9/2019 7:42:52 AM)
Considering all the receiving weapons on this team, Zim's determination to run the ball, and Rudy's shortcomings the ext is a bit hard to justify.

jbusse -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/9/2019 7:50:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Considering all the receiving weapons on this team, Zim's determination to run the ball, and Rudy's shortcomings the ext is a bit hard to justify. To me, they should have cut him before this season's contract became guaranteed. Once they decided they wanted to keep him this year, the extension just moved numbers around.

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