RE: NFL Draft 2020 (Full Version)

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kgdabom -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/26/2020 8:32:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

In the five years that Brad Childress had control of the 53-man roster, the Vikings never had more than 8 picks in the 7-round draft. In the nine years since Rick Spielman has been GM, the Vikings have never had fewer than 8 picks and six times have had 10 or more selections.

Judd Zulgad on Twitter

Were comp picks available during Childress?




The Happy Norseman -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/26/2020 9:18:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

This used to be where JC came in and demanded we somehow sign x, y, and z or accept mediocrity. At least he's here in spirit with all the vets a few people want to bring in.

Ironically, these vets are cheap enough for us to handle cap wise yet so good they will rob playing time from the very players Happy Norse is flagging for low snap counts.

Outside of anomalies or rare trades, there are not three legs to off-season acquisitions. It is just free agency and then the draft.


I don't know who all the vets are who other people want to bring in, but I can name a couple that I'd like to bring in, namely Darqueze Dennard (CB) and Tavon Wilson (S). Both are affordable FAs. We have no depth at S so Wilson is a no brainer. And I would have no problem moving Hand and Fields to the PS and rolling with a CB platoon of Hughes, Hill, Gladney, Dantzler, Boyd and Dennard.




bstinger -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/26/2020 9:24:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

In the 'if the season started tomorrow' scenario, I see holes at LG and nickel. Assume Samia to RG.


I think Dantzler or Hughes or Gladney could all play Nickel.

If I were guessing our line is:

Reiff, Collins, Bradbury, Samia, ONeil.

That's pretty scary.


Agreed. If I'm Cousins I am not a happy camper right now. Hey, maybe Cleveland slides in to LG and is an upgrade over Elflein (the bar is pretty low), and maybe Bradbury plays better than he did last year (again, pretty low bar), and maybe Samia is an upgrade over Kline (who he couldn't beat out for the position last year). But its just as likely that we start the year with Reiff, Elf, Bradbury, Samia, O'Neill. As usual, we have huge question marks all across the oline going into next season. It's just unacceptable that RS has allowed this to happen yet again.

If I owned the team I'd fire is a$$. Making a record # of picks isn't the object of the draft. Constantly trading down will rarely get you the best talent. Get me some players to take us to the Bowl you doof.




bstinger -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/26/2020 9:32:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don T in CO

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don T in CO

#Vikings traded one sixth-round pick (No. 201) and a seventh-round pick (No. 219) to the Ravens for No. 225 and a 2021 5th.


Vikes now with 2 extra picks in the 4th, an extra 5th, and 3 extra compensatory picks (projected) in the 2021 draft. Rick is going to try to break his own record for draft picks again next year.

Lord willing we'll have a new GM next year who will value quality over quantity.




kgdabom -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/26/2020 10:02:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

In the 'if the season started tomorrow' scenario, I see holes at LG and nickel. Assume Samia to RG.


I think Dantzler or Hughes or Gladney could all play Nickel.

If I were guessing our line is:

Reiff, Collins, Bradbury, Samia, ONeil.

That's pretty scary.


Agreed. If I'm Cousins I am not a happy camper right now. Hey, maybe Cleveland slides in to LG and is an upgrade over Elflein (the bar is pretty low), and maybe Bradbury plays better than he did last year (again, pretty low bar), and maybe Samia is an upgrade over Kline (who he couldn't beat out for the position last year). But its just as likely that we start the year with Reiff, Elf, Bradbury, Samia, O'Neill. As usual, we have huge question marks all across the oline going into next season. It's just unacceptable that RS has allowed this to happen yet again.

If I owned the team I'd fire is a$$. Making a record # of picks isn't the object of the draft. Constantly trading down will rarely get you the best talent. Get me some players to take us to the Bowl you doof.

Was it over a guard? Seems a little extreme over him not drafting a guard as early as you like while the whole world considers our draft a stroke of genius. The first round trade-back we obviously got the player we wanted anyway. I wouldn't call one other trade-back constantly trading back. The other trades were to exchange picks this year for picks next year. He doesn't do that one we could have drafted say Simpson at the cost of the four players we got with those picks. Maybe Simpson would have made more impact than the 4 players combined. Time will tell.




thebigo -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/26/2020 10:33:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

Assuming our draft picks in the first 3 rounds all pan out, we could really be set up for 2021. We can dump Reiff's big contract, our oline will be young and cheap at both T positions, and we'll be young and cheap at CB. Our WR corps will also be cheaper without Diggs contract. Unfortunately, this year we still have BIG question marks at CB, WR, and OL.

Taking a look at the (likely) post-draft roster, the Vikings have a few needs to fill out via FA. There will be some vets cuts, hopefully a few that can contribute to the Vikings:

CB - we have an influx of talent but almost no NFL experience at the position
S - need depth with NFL experience
OG - currently 3 guards on the roster and one is Eflein(!). Samia will man one spot (33 total snaps in the NFL) and if one of our T move to guard they will have zero NFL experience. Dicey.
WR - very thin at the position, should add a vet with deep speed

If everything breaks right for the Vikings they should be competitive this year, but currently teams like the 49ers and Chiefs seem like they're in a different league than us.


Good stuff. I would add DE and DT to the mix. We were one of the youngest teams the last couple years and got younger. Makes sense to bring Griff back. Be a big year for guys like Watt/Irv to step up.
Guards we have Elf, Collins, Samia, Dozier, Jones - right? Not counting the late rounders drafted.

I think we are more talented in areas than last year (T, CB) and less in others (WR). I enjoy rooting for young players trying to make it vs declining vets.

This was slated to be a rough off-season for sure, and was made more problematic with Diggs leaving
I think as of right now this is probably a 9 and 7 or 10 and 6 type team with enough talent to compete
Should have enough talent to compete for a wild card or NFC North title
We need a couple of these rookies to shine for sure
There is a fair amount riding on them for sure
Let’s remember though Rhodes was freaking terrible, so hard to not upgrade
I’m hopeful with Kubiak more hands on he can get this line and Cousins more in synch
I wouldn’t pencil in San Fran just yet. They were not that far off from Chicago 2 years ago. Garrapalo did not look good and will have to raise his play
KC has Mahomes which we will just never have in the near future


I actually am really impressed by the pass blocking rating of our 6th round Tackle....PAC 10 throws the ball....always happy to get a tackle with the best pass blocking grade.



He was also going against PAC 10 defenses. Just sayin'.


Yes but they pass more than the run and most run a pro offense.


Well sure, I'm just saying that an OT in say... the SEC might have a little more difficulty putting up top pass blocking grades.




bstinger -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/26/2020 10:49:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

I'd say Dennison has a solid group of guys to work with and carve out a decent starting five. lets see how it shakes out, there may be someone who comes to camp and surprises, lots of time to sort this out, the cupboard isn't bare.

Looking forward to meeting the new players!

Maybe it's a personal flaw of mine, but I like to aim higher than decent.




bstinger -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/26/2020 10:50:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

The Vikings already have 12 picks in next year's draft.

Cool, I hope the next GM/Coach can parlay that draft capital into 8-10 really good players.




thebigo -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/26/2020 11:00:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

The Vikings already have 12 picks in next year's draft.

Cool, I hope the next GM/Coach can parlay that draft capital into 8-10 really good players.


Regardless of what the Vikes do in the 2020 season, Spielman is almost certain to get extended based on the 2020 draft. He might well get extended before the season.




McMurfy -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/26/2020 11:48:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: unome

I know we have some Ducks fans here, any thoughts on Brady Aiello?

Any Sioux Falls/Augustana people with any thoughts on Jake Lacina?



Played all over the line and a lot in a rotation.
That being said, he always seemed to get
beat out by a better player.
A better option would have been Calvin Throckmorton
who did the same, only much better and often started.




bstinger -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/26/2020 11:52:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Okay, here's my take on the draft:

First off, most people know I am a "need" guy. I see no point in having a draft, if teams are not there to fill obvious needs. As I have said before, drafting for best-player-available is a luxury that only a handful of teams can enjoy on any given year. If a team has no or few immediate needs, they have that luxury.

Secondly, for some teams, it is nearly impossible to fill all of their needs through the draft. There is also free agency, trades, etc...

Thirdly, I view the draft as a four-round ordeal. Very infrequently does a player become an all-pro caliber player from the later rounds. There are those that are exceptions, but they aren't the rule. However, with COVID-19, I think there will be a handful more that come out of this draft.

First off we need to identify needs. My opinion was that the Vikings had four glaring needs....offensive line, corner, wide receiver and a mobile quarterback. It is nearly impossible through a draft to efficiently fill all of those needs. Having said that, there is ways to make one of the needs less apparent as a result of filling one of the other needs. If you want your quarterback to be more successful, give him some help up front and some great weapons to disguise his deficiencies.

As a result, I listed in order the needs of the Vikings as (1) offensive linemen, (2) corner, (3) wide receiver. How did they do?

IMO, the Vikings get a B overall grade. I think they clearly addressed their needs, I'm just not sure they did it well enough to get an "A" on the test. Only time will tell.

First round pick Justin Jefferson (A-) looks like a solid pick. The problem with drafting a wide receiver early is that they, generally speaking, do not produce a lot in their first year. Jefferson is likely going to be pressed into early action, giving him a chance to have a solid rookie campaign. I would have rather had a pure burner to clear up the inside of the field, but he's considered one of the better route-runners in the draft and LSU has been a great resource for wide receivers in recent years. Whether or not he has potential outside is still up in the air, but clearly he had some of the best pass-catching and route-running skills in the draft.

Jeff Gladley (B+) looks like a solid corner in a spot where they have immediate needs. Is he an immediate star, a potential star or just a guy? I would label him as potential star. Nonetheless, corner is a must-have if you want to have a great defense, and he looks like a guy with a lot of potential.

Ezra Cleveland (A-) was a solid pick when the Vikings drafted him. Am I ecstatic about the pick? No. But given the needs up front I was happy he was there. My biggest question mark on Cleveland is the big jump from Boise State to the NFL. He occasionally saw NFL guys in the games he played, but wasn't tested like some of the other linemen in the draft. I would have rather seen the Vikings draft a lineman with their first pick, but only time will tell if the guys in front of him will be exponentially better. Is he a day one starter? That's a big question. I would hope he is, but COVID-19 could have an impact on that.

The Cameron Dantzler (B+) pick was a solid pick where they got him. Again, the Vikings clearly made a point that they understand the need for corners, and they went and found a tested guy. At the end of the day, he has good size, mediocre speed and is a competitor. The Vikings have done a pretty good job at taking corners and developing their skills, so I trust he could be a some-day starter.

I did not like the fourth round at all (D). DJ Wonnum looks like a guy with some upside, but I would have filled an inside offensive line position with this pick. Wonnum looks like a reach to me. Most sites I found did not have a lot of great things to say about him. He's not a great pass rusher and looks like a rotational guy, at-best. James Lynch is just a guy. He doesn't look like a great athlete, but probably gives it 100% at all times. I don't see Lynch as an impact player, but has the potential to be a rotational guy with his effort. Troy Dye is arguably the most interesting pick in the fourth round. He clearly isn't big enough to play inside at linebacker, but looks like a good enough athlete where he could be disruptive from the outside and you can move him around as a result of his athleticism. At the end of the day, the Vikings completely whiffed at addressing interior offensive linemen in the fourth round, and they had three chances.

After the fourth round, I see nothing but practice dummies. All of the movement after the fourth round with trades and such is just arrogance and nonsense. No need to have that many fifth, sixth and seventh round picks. Most of the guys would have been available as UDFA.

OVERALL GRADE "B"

Pretty much how I felt except I'm not sure a B is warranted when the draft capital wasn't spent well. B- from me and that might be generous.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/27/2020 12:39:31 AM)

This is another flattering description by a chart how the Vikings crushed the draft.

https://twitter.com/LeeSharpeNFL/status/1254578335868268544?s=09

It's really complicated, but this explains his criteria for rating the Vikings so highly compared to the other teams.

https://overthecap.com/using-salary-data-to-better-value-nfl-draft-picks/amp/?__twitter_impression=true




Bruce Johnson -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/27/2020 12:49:08 AM)

The Vikings draft for attributes on their DL. A simple search of DL drafted results in comparable former Vikings draft picks.

It’s incredible.

Even more impressive... how consistently they’ve translated those attributes to production.
#PattersonEffect

(BHawkes on Twitter)




Bruce Johnson -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/27/2020 12:50:09 AM)

KJ Osborn is going to bring juice to the return game, and versatility to the offense (in spots).

He’s the player Cordarrelle Patterson was, but drafted with the appropriate equity.

(B Hawkes on Twitter)




Bruce Johnson -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/27/2020 12:55:55 AM)

The Vikings came out way ahead, value-wise, in their trade with New Orleans.

What the Saints gave up was worth roughly the 65th overall pick more than what they got back, according to our AV-based draft chart.

(Seth Walder on Twitter)




Bruce Johnson -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/27/2020 1:02:36 AM)

#Vikings #EzraCleveland-It all starts with his athletic ability and length. Rarely caught out of position and does a nice job of maintaining solid contact. Stays square to his target. Changes up his approach in pass protection. Shows patience and a solid anchor,

Dan Shonka of Ourlads on Twitter)




Bruce Johnson -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/27/2020 1:15:43 AM)

I've watched this over and over again. Ezra Cleveland does NOT need to sit on the bench. I call BS. The same was said about O'Neill and for a minute I fell for it but then I called BS after that too. I'm calling BS on Cleveland. He can start at LT.

https://t.co/U0EAVlnIGC

(Vikings Spin on Twitter)




Bruce Johnson -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/27/2020 1:19:16 AM)

Ezra Cleveland is a bulldozer in run blocking....but man does he need technique work in pass protection.....

Hope he's a quick learner.

(Kevin McMahon on Twitter)




Bruce Johnson -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/27/2020 1:21:36 AM)

This was a theme with the Vikings' draft this year — not just Dantzler but Ezra Cleveland, Troy Dye, Blake Brandel and Kyle Hinton. Lots of guys who could be very good if they add some good weight and play strength. Easier said than done though.

(Nick Olson on Twitter)




Bruce Johnson -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/27/2020 1:28:07 AM)

With regard to the Packers draft:

"Worst I've seen".

(Jon Ledyard of Pewter Report on Twitter)




Pager -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/27/2020 1:34:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Okay, here's my take on the draft:

First off, most people know I am a "need" guy. I see no point in having a draft, if teams are not there to fill obvious needs. As I have said before, drafting for best-player-available is a luxury that only a handful of teams can enjoy on any given year. If a team has no or few immediate needs, they have that luxury.

Secondly, for some teams, it is nearly impossible to fill all of their needs through the draft. There is also free agency, trades, etc...

Thirdly, I view the draft as a four-round ordeal. Very infrequently does a player become an all-pro caliber player from the later rounds. There are those that are exceptions, but they aren't the rule. However, with COVID-19, I think there will be a handful more that come out of this draft.

First off we need to identify needs. My opinion was that the Vikings had four glaring needs....offensive line, corner, wide receiver and a mobile quarterback. It is nearly impossible through a draft to efficiently fill all of those needs. Having said that, there is ways to make one of the needs less apparent as a result of filling one of the other needs. If you want your quarterback to be more successful, give him some help up front and some great weapons to disguise his deficiencies.

As a result, I listed in order the needs of the Vikings as (1) offensive linemen, (2) corner, (3) wide receiver. How did they do?

IMO, the Vikings get a B overall grade. I think they clearly addressed their needs, I'm just not sure they did it well enough to get an "A" on the test. Only time will tell.

First round pick Justin Jefferson (A-) looks like a solid pick. The problem with drafting a wide receiver early is that they, generally speaking, do not produce a lot in their first year. Jefferson is likely going to be pressed into early action, giving him a chance to have a solid rookie campaign. I would have rather had a pure burner to clear up the inside of the field, but he's considered one of the better route-runners in the draft and LSU has been a great resource for wide receivers in recent years. Whether or not he has potential outside is still up in the air, but clearly he had some of the best pass-catching and route-running skills in the draft.

Jeff Gladley (B+) looks like a solid corner in a spot where they have immediate needs. Is he an immediate star, a potential star or just a guy? I would label him as potential star. Nonetheless, corner is a must-have if you want to have a great defense, and he looks like a guy with a lot of potential.

Ezra Cleveland (A-) was a solid pick when the Vikings drafted him. Am I ecstatic about the pick? No. But given the needs up front I was happy he was there. My biggest question mark on Cleveland is the big jump from Boise State to the NFL. He occasionally saw NFL guys in the games he played, but wasn't tested like some of the other linemen in the draft. I would have rather seen the Vikings draft a lineman with their first pick, but only time will tell if the guys in front of him will be exponentially better. Is he a day one starter? That's a big question. I would hope he is, but COVID-19 could have an impact on that.

The Cameron Dantzler (B+) pick was a solid pick where they got him. Again, the Vikings clearly made a point that they understand the need for corners, and they went and found a tested guy. At the end of the day, he has good size, mediocre speed and is a competitor. The Vikings have done a pretty good job at taking corners and developing their skills, so I trust he could be a some-day starter.

I did not like the fourth round at all (D). DJ Wonnum looks like a guy with some upside, but I would have filled an inside offensive line position with this pick. Wonnum looks like a reach to me. Most sites I found did not have a lot of great things to say about him. He's not a great pass rusher and looks like a rotational guy, at-best. James Lynch is just a guy. He doesn't look like a great athlete, but probably gives it 100% at all times. I don't see Lynch as an impact player, but has the potential to be a rotational guy with his effort. Troy Dye is arguably the most interesting pick in the fourth round. He clearly isn't big enough to play inside at linebacker, but looks like a good enough athlete where he could be disruptive from the outside and you can move him around as a result of his athleticism. At the end of the day, the Vikings completely whiffed at addressing interior offensive linemen in the fourth round, and they had three chances.

After the fourth round, I see nothing but practice dummies. All of the movement after the fourth round with trades and such is just arrogance and nonsense. No need to have that many fifth, sixth and seventh round picks. Most of the guys would have been available as UDFA.

OVERALL GRADE "B"

Pretty much how I felt except I'm not sure a B is warranted when the draft capital wasn't spent well. B- from me and that might be generous.



There is a lot of merit to Brad's post. Don't you think the top half of the grade should be weighted accordingly? Someone posted our starting players/where they were picked. The vast majority were first and second rounders. I feel we crushed it in the first 3 rounds getting value/matching scheme/and filling needs (the holy trinity). I think we got 4 contributors with upside potential. We also turned picks into 2021 capital which I love. All this creates a floor of B+ or B (at minimum) in my opinion.

Just for fun - not saying Wonnum is as athletic as Hunter or is comparable. But Hunter was compared pre-draft to Damontre Moore. Who? Exactly. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoorDa01.htm Patterson developed Weatherly into a solid player, Bower got snaps, and seems to doing the same with Ifeadi. I can't give that pick a D if it's who Patterson wanted.

Dye - already discussed.

If Osburn becomes Sherels - that's a great investment on a 5th round pick. I really like Hinton in the 7th - highly athletic guy.

Didn't we draft a guy that had already agreed to a UDFA with SEA or DAL?




unome -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/27/2020 2:41:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

Maybe it's a personal flaw of mine, but I like to aim higher than decent.


JC, is that you? Raving on and on about a draft that the draft experts universally raved about makes you kind of silly. We get it, you would have traded up because you like "quality over quantity" as if that is the only two ways to look at a draft strategy.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/27/2020 4:49:56 AM)

I wanted the Vikings to trade up in the zone between our first round picks and our third round picks. I thought that was where there would be good value. It didn't happen. Maybe the other teams thought that way too. Because I'm a fan I can only embrace the picks that were made. Maybe they will be good. Maybe they won't. We really can't say now for sure.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/27/2020 7:09:22 AM)

Arif grades the draft:

My grades by round:

1: A-
2: A
3: B-
4: B-
5: D+
6: B
7: A

Yes.




Phil Riewer -> RE: NFL Draft 2020 (4/27/2020 7:10:06 AM)

I am most impressed with some of the talent they grabbed later....I actually liked that they had that many picks. They grabbed a 2nd DE and a 2nd OT--both might be just as good as the players drafted in the 2nd and 3rd round. It isn't always sexy grabbing DB, DLine, and OLine...but the majority were that. 5 db, 3 dline, and 3 Oline.




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