RE: General Vikes Talk

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Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/29/2020 12:08:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Amazing article: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-top-101-players-from-the-2019-nfl-season NOTHING is amazing about PFF

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/29/2020 12:23:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Amazing article: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-top-101-players-from-the-2019-nfl-season I looked at the list and by law of averages each team would have 3 players. The Vikings had 5 but 4 were in the top 37 which is 4 times the law of averages. Anthony Harris came in at 12, Kendricks at 14, H Smith at 31, Hunter 37, and Cousins at 79 4 spots ahead of Rodgers at 83. Judging by 4 top 37 players we should have a killer team.

unome -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/29/2020 12:35:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Amazing article: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-top-101-players-from-the-2019-nfl-season NOTHING is amazing about PFF And yet the article was pretty good.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/29/2020 1:27:15 PM)
Those who are feeling doom and gloom about the Vikings OL I think are going to get a huge surprise as IMO we are soon going to have one of the best OLs in all of the NFL. We have young players in O'Neill, Samia, Cleveland, Udoh, ready to emerge and late rounders that I believe are diamonds in the rough in Brandel and Hinton. Call me a homer, but I truly believe this.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/29/2020 2:13:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Amazing article: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-top-101-players-from-the-2019-nfl-season I looked at the list and by law of averages each team would have 3 players. The Vikings had 5 but 4 were in the top 37 which is 4 times the law of averages. Anthony Harris came in at 12, Kendricks at 14, H Smith at 31, Hunter 37, and Cousins at 79 4 spots ahead of Rodgers at 83. Judging by 4 top 37 players we should have a killer team. Should HAVE had a killer roster. Having four of the best defenders in football couldn’t make up for Rhodes and Barr. Opponents exploited Rhodes every chance they got and we just kept on sending him out there mostly.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/29/2020 3:07:38 PM)
. . cut stephen and elflein and we save about $4.3m in cap space this year.... Nick Olson@NickOlsonNFL In 2019, Shamar Stephen recorded • Six pressures (fewest among all starting DTs) • Eleven stops (second-fewest among all starting DTs) Tre@SKOLNETS So he’s basically the defensive version of Pat Elflein.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/29/2020 3:09:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . . cut stephen and elflien and we save about $4.3m in cap space this year.... Nick Olson@NickOlsonNFL In 2019, Shamar Stephen recorded • Six pressures (fewest among all starting DTs) • Eleven stops (second-fewest among all starting DTs) Tre@SKOLNETS So he’s basically the defensive version of Pat Elflein. Those stats are pretty damning for Stephen. Send him packing and put Lynch in his place.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/29/2020 3:23:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . . cut stephen and elflien and we save about $4.3m in cap space this year.... Nick Olson@NickOlsonNFL In 2019, Shamar Stephen recorded • Six pressures (fewest among all starting DTs) • Eleven stops (second-fewest among all starting DTs) Tre@SKOLNETS So he’s basically the defensive version of Pat Elflein. Those stats are pretty damning for Stephen. Send him packing and put Lynch in his place. stephen and joseph got their asses kicked in the trenches last season...we've got to play our younger and better players this season - lynch, watts, johnson - also dye in passing situations...i think we're going to use 3-4 on third downs and blitz form different spots....

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/29/2020 3:29:18 PM)
Speaking of Stephen: In 2019, Shamar Stephen recorded… • Six pressures (fewest among all starting DTs) • Eleven stops (second-fewest among all starting DTs) (Nick Olson on Twitter) I like Stephen and was happy he came back to our team last year, but I'm going to say that this is unacceptable. I don't know what the dead money would be, but unless he shows more in the preseason, I want somebody else on the field.

unome -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/29/2020 4:02:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Amazing article: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-top-101-players-from-the-2019-nfl-season I looked at the list and by law of averages each team would have 3 players. The Vikings had 5 but 4 were in the top 37 which is 4 times the law of averages. Anthony Harris came in at 12, Kendricks at 14, H Smith at 31, Hunter 37, and Cousins at 79 4 spots ahead of Rodgers at 83. Judging by 4 top 37 players we should have a killer team. Should HAVE had a killer roster. Having four of the best defenders in football couldn’t make up for Rhodes and Barr. Opponents exploited Rhodes every chance they got and we just kept on sending him out there mostly. Two of the 4 were Safeties though. And we did have the 6th best scoring defense, so that is impressive. I think two areas where we had weaknesses compared to past years were addressed in this piece: "47 — The Vikings allowed 47 pass plays that went for 20-plus yards this past season, the most the team has allowed since 2015. Minnesota allowed 43 such plays in 2018, 35 such passes in 2017 and 41 such plays in 2016. The Vikings allowed 47 passes of 20-plus yards in 2015. ... 4.28 — The Vikings defense allowed 4.28 yards per carry in 2019, which ranked 19th in the league. That is Minnesota's highest rush average allowed since the 2014 season, when the Vikings were 24th in the NFL at 4.32 yards allowed per carry. The Vikings allowed just five rushes of 20-plus yards in 2019, which was the second-fewest in the league." https://www.vikings.com/news/numbers-of-note-vikings-2019-defense So maybe Joseph and Stephen were as big of an issue as the others, although spending big money of Rhodes and, to a lesser degree, Barr was probably not good value.

unome -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/29/2020 4:08:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer stephen and joseph got their asses kicked in the trenches last season...we've got to play our younger and better players this season - lynch, watts, johnson - also dye in passing situations...i think we're going to use 3-4 on third downs and blitz form different spots.... Good points! I responded to David before I saw this discussion. I think it would probably be more of a 3-3-5 on passing down or a flexible defense where Barr is debatably either a OLB or a DE depending on whether they decide to bring him or drop him back.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/29/2020 4:10:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: unome quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Amazing article: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-top-101-players-from-the-2019-nfl-season I looked at the list and by law of averages each team would have 3 players. The Vikings had 5 but 4 were in the top 37 which is 4 times the law of averages. Anthony Harris came in at 12, Kendricks at 14, H Smith at 31, Hunter 37, and Cousins at 79 4 spots ahead of Rodgers at 83. Judging by 4 top 37 players we should have a killer team. Should HAVE had a killer roster. Having four of the best defenders in football couldn’t make up for Rhodes and Barr. Opponents exploited Rhodes every chance they got and we just kept on sending him out there mostly. Two of the 4 were Safeties though. And we did have the 6th best scoring defense, so that is impressive. I think two areas where we had weaknesses compared to past years were addressed in this piece: "47 — The Vikings allowed 47 pass plays that went for 20-plus yards this past season, the most the team has allowed since 2015. Minnesota allowed 43 such plays in 2018, 35 such passes in 2017 and 41 such plays in 2016. The Vikings allowed 47 passes of 20-plus yards in 2015. ... 4.28 — The Vikings defense allowed 4.28 yards per carry in 2019, which ranked 19th in the league. That is Minnesota's highest rush average allowed since the 2014 season, when the Vikings were 24th in the NFL at 4.32 yards allowed per carry. The Vikings allowed just five rushes of 20-plus yards in 2019, which was the second-fewest in the league." https://www.vikings.com/news/numbers-of-note-vikings-2019-defense So maybe Joseph and Stephen were as big of an issue as the others, although spending big money of Rhodes and, to a lesser degree, Barr was probably not good value. Good stats Unome. Since we didn't give up long runs much at all, but still give up 4.28 opposing teams must have been consistently getting good rushing yardage against us.

unome -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/29/2020 4:45:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom Good stats Unome. Since we didn't give up long runs much at all, but still give up 4.28 opposing teams must have been consistently getting good rushing yardage against us. Good point. We did a good job preventing explosive rushing plays, but that also means we did even worse at defending the run on a normal play. Hopefully, Pierce and some better DT play overall will make a difference this year.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/29/2020 5:22:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: unome quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom Good stats Unome. Since we didn't give up long runs much at all, but still give up 4.28 opposing teams must have been consistently getting good rushing yardage against us. Good point. We did a good job preventing explosive rushing plays, but that also means we did even worse at defending the run on a normal play. Hopefully, Pierce and some better DT play overall will make a difference this year. [:D]

bohumm -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/29/2020 5:29:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . . cut stephen and elflien and we save about $4.3m in cap space this year.... Nick Olson@NickOlsonNFL In 2019, Shamar Stephen recorded • Six pressures (fewest among all starting DTs) • Eleven stops (second-fewest among all starting DTs) Tre@SKOLNETS So he’s basically the defensive version of Pat Elflein. Those stats are pretty damning for Stephen. Send him packing and put Lynch in his place. stephen and joseph got their asses kicked in the trenches last season...we've got to play our younger and better players this season - lynch, watts, johnson - also dye in passing situations...i think we're going to use 3-4 on third downs and blitz form different spots.... I've been advocating for years going 3-3 on third with a nickel back and three LBs who blitz and cover fairly effectively, or even two with a dedicated blitzer (Barr for us) who occasionally falls back into coverage.

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/29/2020 5:50:28 PM)
I have the sense that the Vikings want to reinvent themselves on defense this year. It feels like they are putting more and more premium on adding players who are "versatile". Versatility means that the defense can be more unpredictable and more complicated. Complicated means sometimes confusing the opposing offense, but also making more mistakes too. If you have "tweeners" it may mean being more vulnerable to physical offensive lines or speedy playmakers that we can't keep up with. But versatility means we can have the flexibility to utilize what seems to be working and making better game day adjustments. The way to be versatile is having players with strengths who are given roles to exploit those strengths and to have well thought out game plans to respond to situation football.

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/29/2020 7:30:30 PM)
Nick Olson @NickOlsonNFL · 4h In 2019, Shamar Stephen recorded… • Six pressures (fewest among all starting DTs) • Eleven stops (second-fewest among all starting DTs) Luke Braun @LukeBraunNFL · 4h He was also in like the bottom third of the league in terms of drawing double teams, but other than that things are fine

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/29/2020 10:58:35 PM)
I like the idea of opposing quarterbacks looking at the Vikings defense and thinking he has no clue what kind of defense it is.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/29/2020 11:43:13 PM)
I get the impression that is what the current Packer's defense is like, it's about creating chaos. They were one of the only defenses to confuse the Patriots for 3 quarters 2 years ago, but got burned by a trick play, and never recovered. Thankfully, that same Pack defense seems to falter Cleveland style in the crunch, and the offense is failing often enough, despite some great play by Adams and Jones.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/29/2020 11:45:20 PM)
I wonder what the Vikings' defensive stats would look like if Cousins got them more early leads ??

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/30/2020 7:35:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marty I wonder what the Vikings' defensive stats would look like if Cousins got them more early leads ?? They would probably surrender more points, but gather more sacks and interceptions.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/30/2020 12:01:11 PM)
I could see more sacks and Ints, but why couldn't it alsonbe fewer points allowed ? Probably more yardage allowed, but why couldn't it be fewer points ?

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/30/2020 1:22:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marty I could see more sacks and Ints, but why couldn't it alsonbe fewer points allowed ? Probably more yardage allowed, but why couldn't it be fewer points ? Some people call it garbage time. Defenses just try to take away the big plays thinking that would be the only way to lose. So the shorter stuff opens up and it's amazing how potent that losing teams offenses suddenly become.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/30/2020 2:43:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: marty I could see more sacks and Ints, but why couldn't it alsonbe fewer points allowed ? Probably more yardage allowed, but why couldn't it be fewer points ? Some people call it garbage time. Defenses just try to take away the big plays thinking that would be the only way to lose. So the shorter stuff opens up and it's amazing how potent that losing teams offenses suddenly become. Yes this is what made jamies Winston a decent play in fantasy.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (4/30/2020 6:28:55 PM)
I had almost forgotten how great Percy Harvin was. These highlights brought it all back to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC3lNjpO3a8

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