quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

Kirk Cousins, hell, I don't know if he can be the type of QB that leads a team to a championship. I hate the amount of money these QB's are taking up in the cap, but I understand that it's about the market and what it bares. What I have done is look at where this team currently sits and if we are capable of making a run at a title. I believe we are better off, (right now), staying with an experienced QB that has some solid characteristics to help the team reach it's goal. He throws the football very well, his accuracy is solid and he can throw deep and intermediate routes with the best of them. His mobility is lacking, he's a bit of a nerd, but these are not reasons for changing that position at this time. The cost of moving on from him and drafting a top tier QB would have been huge and we would still be talking about the needs in the offensive line. Sure a mobile QB eliminates the need for a great offensive line, but look at KC, they realized that their mobile QB needs a better line if he is going to survive. Also, my evaluation of the Vikings offense tells me that our running game will also get better as our O-line improves. So having a capable/experienced QB that is an accurate passer and solid in the play action game, for me, is a much quicker way to get this team to a title.

Our defense will be significantly different this year. Everyone should know what players are coming back or coming in. This group will be light years better than what we experienced last year. Our offense will also have that going for it.

This was the way to go if you are wanting to win now. We have the team to do it, we just need a little luck and some solid coaching. Our special teams will be almost completely be rebuilt, another area where we will need some luck and coaching. It looks like there will be a solid group of athletes to choose from, but both the punter and kicker are still a question mark.

Lots of time to coach these guys up and get ready, the pieces look to be pretty impressive, I'm liking this team to be a contender in the NFC.

Good post Dana.

There are a few Cousins haters on the board that feel he carries little value but I think most are in the middle ... he can put up good numbers that help produce wins during the regular season but he may or may not perform at the same level in the playoffs when things tighten up. Depends on what we put around him.

What we put around him has significantly improved this offseason. On paper. There are still some important depth acquisitions that need to be made, we'll see how that goes.

For my money, I wish that we had invested in a young QB last year or the year before to help loosen the choke-hold he has on us moving forward from this point ... but we are where we are.

The Teddy injury put us in that problem but then we would have Teddy.....who isn't a franchise QB. Jets, Saints, Panthers, and now Denver have concurred that.

Denver and Washington have concurred that Case wasn't a franchise QB.....Arizona concurred on Bradford. Out of the 4 we did make the right choice.

We got ourselves into this mess when we traded for Bradford, who everyone knew couldn't stay healthy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner
On paper, our defense looks like a top tier defense. On paper, our offense looks as good as it has in ten years. If Cousins can't win with what looks like the best team he's ever been on, well, we're screwed for a couple years and it will be time for someone else. I have doubts that that person is Mond, but you never know. Cap shmap, it is what it is, the players and coaches need to perform and make it happen, the pieces are there, so let it be done!

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Next year Cousins will make $45 million - and it's all guaranteed.

That actually is the cap hit from the restructure and signing bonus as part of the restructure.

Here is what you need to look at:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/cash-earnings/

2018 26
2019 28
2020 40 (30 million SB restructure/10 salary)
2021 21
2022 35

If the FO keeps restructuring the Cap Hit gets ugly...Saints have to pay Brees the next year or two for what they did.

The cap hit is all that matters, because that's what determines how much is available to sign other players----as it is for any player's salary. If he is cut, the cap hit is $45M; injured, same; benched, same; MVP, same; Super Bowl winner, same.

The only way to change that is to extend him, which is how the cap hit ended up where it is now.

I don't think that is true IF he is traded... you are not on the hook for the 35 mil salary IF he is traded.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Here are some future HOF UDFAs still out there.

I am sitting and watching our FO carefully to see if they are Phil-satisfied with how things stand

or, whether they are willing to push this offseason's plunder towards the zenith of all human endeavor.


OG Jared Hocker, Texas A&M – 6'6 327 3 year starter; big powerful mauler and violent striker; more of a phone booth type but is effective with lateral positioning and pulling across the formation to secure his target.


WR Austin Watkins, Alabama-Birmingham – 6'1 1/2 201 one Zierlein's hidden gems / former Packer James Jones thinks he's Anquan Boldin II; big physical explosive out of breaks; fearless in traffic; partitions off nosey corners.


TE Artayvious Lynn, TCU 6'5 254 ... former basketball player with extremely long arms = big catch radius; hands are nice and sticky; plays with quick pluck-and-tuck; decent wiggle; decent blocking on the move.

This is the Anquon Boldin reference -- not the Iowa wide receiver.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

Hypothetical question: If the Vikings win the superbowl this year, do we still want to trade Cousins? Sure, the guys that hate cousins will say we won for other reason, or in spite of him, but the question is a legit question, his trade value would be at it's peak, but then he would also be the only QB in Viking history to help this franchise win a title (modern day).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

Hypothetical question: If the Vikings win the superbowl this year, do we still want to trade Cousins? Sure, the guys that hate cousins will say we won for other reason, or in spite of him, but the question is a legit question, his trade value would be at it's peak, but then he would also be the only QB in Viking history to help this franchise win a title (modern day).

I say keep him, that would be my vote. I'm not a huge fan as I feel he is a bit of an odd geek type, but I've seen him make some very impressive throws and if we win the superbowl, he can stay!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M
Thankful for Dana's perspective.
I don't know what it says about a person but when it's a fresh year full of fresh hope and all you want to do is beat a dead horse over something you have no control over but man its annoying.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

Hypothetical question: If the Vikings win the superbowl this year, do we still want to trade Cousins? Sure, the guys that hate cousins will say we won for other reason, or in spite of him, but the question is a legit question, his trade value would be at it's peak, but then he would also be the only QB in Viking history to help this franchise win a title (modern day).

I say keep him, that would be my vote. I'm not a huge fan as I feel he is a bit of an odd geek type, but I've seen him make some very impressive throws and if we win the superbowl, he can stay!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

Hypothetical question: If the Vikings win the superbowl this year, do we still want to trade Cousins? Sure, the guys that hate cousins will say we won for other reason, or in spite of him, but the question is a legit question, his trade value would be at it's peak, but then he would also be the only QB in Viking history to help this franchise win a title (modern day).

I say keep him, that would be my vote. I'm not a huge fan as I feel he is a bit of an odd geek type, but I've seen him make some very impressive throws and if we win the superbowl, he can stay!

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Next year Cousins will make $45 million - and it's all guaranteed.

That actually is the cap hit from the restructure and signing bonus as part of the restructure.

Here is what you need to look at:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/cash-earnings/

2018 26
2019 28
2020 40 (30 million SB restructure/10 salary)
2021 21
2022 35

If the FO keeps restructuring the Cap Hit gets ugly...Saints have to pay Brees the next year or two for what they did.

Yes I should have said counts $45 million against the cap, and there's no getting out of it. Cousins is our starting QB for the next two seasons.

Longshot... but wouldn't a trade get you out of it?

If I read over the cap correctly (and my track record is spotty at best), if the Vikings were to trade Cousins after June 1, they would carry $10M in dead cap for both 2021 and 2022. His new team of course, would be the ones actually paying him.

I hope I got that right. Otherwise Bill will come in and pistol whip me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Next year Cousins will make $45 million - and it's all guaranteed.

That actually is the cap hit from the restructure and signing bonus as part of the restructure.

Here is what you need to look at:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/cash-earnings/

2018 26
2019 28
2020 40 (30 million SB restructure/10 salary)
2021 21
2022 35

If the FO keeps restructuring the Cap Hit gets ugly...Saints have to pay Brees the next year or two for what they did.

Yes I should have said counts $45 million against the cap, and there's no getting out of it. Cousins is our starting QB for the next two seasons.

What's the thing about Cousins being cut and just owed $10 million for next year. I swear I've heard that, but maybe I misunderstood it.

We would have had to cut him prior to last season to avoid the $35 million for 2022. Doing that would have still been a massive cap hit as his entire 2020 and 2021 salary would have hit all at once along with three doses of his prorated $10 million per year signing bonus.

So, we keep doubling down on stupidity.

Technically we were only stupid once - when we extended him. The extension always had the current year guaranteed with the next season guaranteed as long as he was on the roster at a certain date. Basically is was a fully guaranteed extension with the exception that each coming season triggered separately but always so early on that it was improbable to ever cut him. Now the final year has been triggered to be guaranteed so it's all set in stone.

On the plus side - Kirk now truly has nothing to lose and everything to gain. He has two seasons to try and bring a title to Minnesota. If he does it then he's instantly the most revered QB in Vikings franchise history. If he fails he simply joins a long list of others who also didn't get it done. Literally no pressure.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Next year Cousins will make $45 million - and it's all guaranteed.

That actually is the cap hit from the restructure and signing bonus as part of the restructure.

Here is what you need to look at:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/cash-earnings/

2018 26
2019 28
2020 40 (30 million SB restructure/10 salary)
2021 21
2022 35

If the FO keeps restructuring the Cap Hit gets ugly...Saints have to pay Brees the next year or two for what they did.

The cap hit is all that matters, because that's what determines how much is available to sign other players----as it is for any player's salary. If he is cut, the cap hit is $45M; injured, same; benched, same; MVP, same; Super Bowl winner, same.

The only way to change that is to extend him, which is how the cap hit ended up where it is now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

Kirk Cousins, hell, I don't know if he can be the type of QB that leads a team to a championship. I hate the amount of money these QB's are taking up in the cap, but I understand that it's about the market and what it bares. What I have done is look at where this team currently sits and if we are capable of making a run at a title. I believe we are better off, (right now), staying with an experienced QB that has some solid characteristics to help the team reach it's goal. He throws the football very well, his accuracy is solid and he can throw deep and intermediate routes with the best of them. His mobility is lacking, he's a bit of a nerd, but these are not reasons for changing that position at this time. The cost of moving on from him and drafting a top tier QB would have been huge and we would still be talking about the needs in the offensive line. Sure a mobile QB eliminates the need for a great offensive line, but look at KC, they realized that their mobile QB needs a better line if he is going to survive. Also, my evaluation of the Vikings offense tells me that our running game will also get better as our O-line improves. So having a capable/experienced QB that is an accurate passer and solid in the play action game, for me, is a much quicker way to get this team to a title.

Our defense will be significantly different this year. Everyone should know what players are coming back or coming in. This group will be light years better than what we experienced last year. Our offense will also have that going for it.

This was the way to go if you are wanting to win now. We have the team to do it, we just need a little luck and some solid coaching. Our special teams will be almost completely be rebuilt, another area where we will need some luck and coaching. It looks like there will be a solid group of athletes to choose from, but both the punter and kicker are still a question mark.

Lots of time to coach these guys up and get ready, the pieces look to be pretty impressive, I'm liking this team to be a contender in the NFC.

Good post Dana.

There are a few Cousins haters on the board that feel he carries little value but I think most are in the middle ... he can put up good numbers that help produce wins during the regular season but he may or may not perform at the same level in the playoffs when things tighten up. Depends on what we put around him.

What we put around him has significantly improved this offseason. On paper. There are still some important depth acquisitions that need to be made, we'll see how that goes.

For my money, I wish that we had invested in a young QB last year or the year before to help loosen the choke-hold he has on us moving forward from this point ... but we are where we are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Cousins is who he is.

You are not going to win because of him (Mahomes Rodgers Brady class)

You CAN win with him but everything has to be damn near perfect for a playoff run. Lots of teams in that boat but Vikings are paying a big time premium for that 2nd tier QB.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Next year Cousins will make $45 million - and it's all guaranteed.

That actually is the cap hit from the restructure and signing bonus as part of the restructure.

Here is what you need to look at:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/cash-earnings/

2018 26
2019 28
2020 40 (30 million SB restructure/10 salary)
2021 21
2022 35

If the FO keeps restructuring the Cap Hit gets ugly...Saints have to pay Brees the next year or two for what they did.

The cap hit is all that matters, because that's what determines how much is available to sign other players----as it is for any player's salary. If he is cut, the cap hit is $45M; injured, same; benched, same; MVP, same; Super Bowl winner, same.

The only way to change that is to extend him, which is how the cap hit ended up where it is now.

quote:

$45-million for Kirk Cousins. That is bordering on the Herschel Walker fiasco.

The cap hit isn't what he is making as they restructured him....again cap hit doesn't equal what he makes that year. The 40 million in 2020 and 35 in 2022 where because of the restructure to lower 20 & 21.

Drew Bress has a cap hit for 2021 even though he is retired as he signed an extension before he retired to help NO cap.

The cap is ALL that matters---who gives a shitt about Kirk's bank account? That subracted from the cap is how much is available for other players.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Next year Cousins will make $45 million - and it's all guaranteed.

That actually is the cap hit from the restructure and signing bonus as part of the restructure.

Here is what you need to look at:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/cash-earnings/

2018 26
2019 28
2020 40 (30 million SB restructure/10 salary)
2021 21
2022 35

If the FO keeps restructuring the Cap Hit gets ugly...Saints have to pay Brees the next year or two for what they did.

Yes I should have said counts $45 million against the cap, and there's no getting out of it. Cousins is our starting QB for the next two seasons.

Longshot... but wouldn't a trade get you out of it?

If I read over the cap correctly (and my track record is spotty at best), if the Vikings were to trade Cousins after June 1, they would carry $10M in dead cap for both 2021 and 2022. His new team of course, would be the ones actually paying him.

I hope I got that right. Otherwise Bill will come in and pistol whip me.

People need to quit with this $10 million thing, but no pistol whipping.

I don't know why Phil's link is to career earning. Dumb. It's about Cousins' CONTRACT: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/

Pretty easy to ascertain the cap hit AND dead cap in general. I don't know the ins and outs of each WRT the season start, June 1st, etc.

Look at the amount of dead cap. Overthecap has some other fields.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Next year Cousins will make $45 million - and it's all guaranteed.

That actually is the cap hit from the restructure and signing bonus as part of the restructure.

Here is what you need to look at:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/cash-earnings/

2018 26
2019 28
2020 40 (30 million SB restructure/10 salary)
2021 21
2022 35

If the FO keeps restructuring the Cap Hit gets ugly...Saints have to pay Brees the next year or two for what they did.

The cap hit is all that matters, because that's what determines how much is available to sign other players----as it is for any player's salary. If he is cut, the cap hit is $45M; injured, same; benched, same; MVP, same; Super Bowl winner, same.

The only way to change that is to extend him, which is how the cap hit ended up where it is now.

quote:

$45-million for Kirk Cousins. That is bordering on the Herschel Walker fiasco.

The cap hit isn't what he is making as they restructured him....again cap hit doesn't equal what he makes that year. The 40 million in 2020 and 35 in 2022 where because of the restructure to lower 20 & 21.

Drew Bress has a cap hit for 2021 even though he is retired as he signed an extension before he retired to help NO cap.

The cap is ALL that matters---who gives a shitt about Kirk's bank account? That subracted from the cap is how much is available for other players.

I don't care about his bank account...but complaining about his cap number? The issue is what the FO did. They signed him; they restructured him. The restructure wasn't the right call but him over Case, Teddy, and Sam was.

But that's what determines what's available for other players, which is all that matters. It's not Kirk's fault. Those other guys don't matter relative to the extension, which is what we're talking about.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Next year Cousins will make $45 million - and it's all guaranteed.

That actually is the cap hit from the restructure and signing bonus as part of the restructure.

Here is what you need to look at:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/cash-earnings/

2018 26
2019 28
2020 40 (30 million SB restructure/10 salary)
2021 21
2022 35

If the FO keeps restructuring the Cap Hit gets ugly...Saints have to pay Brees the next year or two for what they did.

Yes I should have said counts $45 million against the cap, and there's no getting out of it. Cousins is our starting QB for the next two seasons.

Longshot... but wouldn't a trade get you out of it?

If I read over the cap correctly (and my track record is spotty at best), if the Vikings were to trade Cousins after June 1, they would carry $10M in dead cap for both 2021 and 2022. His new team of course, would be the ones actually paying him.

I hope I got that right. Otherwise Bill will come in and pistol whip me.

People need to quit with this $10 million thing, but no pistol whipping.

I don't know why Phil's link is to career earning. Dumb. It's about Cousins' CONTRACT: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/

Pretty easy to ascertain the cap hit AND dead cap in general. I don't know the ins and outs of each WRT the season start, June 1st, etc.

Look at the amount of dead cap. Overthecap has some other fields.

Dead Cap is if we cut him. If we trade him, we're not on the hook for his base salary (21M and 35M) anymore, just his remaining bonus money (20M if we trade him this year, 10M if we trade him next year).