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Pauldiercks1 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/4/2021 12:53:29 PM)

I'll throw something else out into the wind.
If we traded Cousins to SF we need to get their #1 It's key to making more moves. Since the price for Watson is through the roof (or so it seems that it will be)
Why not look at a different QB?
Why not offer Jacksonville 3 #1's a #3 and a decent defensive player (not sure what they need?)for Trever Lawrence. They could roll with Minshew or draft one of the other young guys. They would be stocked with picks to load up on young players.

The Vikes finally take a shot at a top QB and can use a year to get the cap in order while Lawrence learns. Like David mentioned, we would likely want to go in a different direction coaching as well.

I would think that would be a package they would have to consider with all the possible options. Maybe they are dead set on Trever but maybe not. Offseason wishing time of course but ok guys your thoughts?

cap issues and the cost to acquire this may be more beneficial to the Vikings long term.



Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/4/2021 1:00:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

I'll throw something else out into the wind.
If we traded Cousins to SF we need to get their #1 It's key to making more moves. Since the price for Watson is through the roof (or so it seems that it will be)
Why not look at a different QB?
Why not offer Jacksonville 3 #1's a #3 and a decent defensive player (not sure what they need?)for Trever Lawrence. They could roll with Minshew or draft one of the other young guys. They would be stocked with picks to load up on young players.

The Vikes finally take a shot at a top QB and can use a year to get the cap in order while Lawrence learns. Like David mentioned, we would likely want to go in a different direction coaching as well.

I would think that would be a package they would have to consider with all the possible options. Maybe they are dead set on Trever but maybe not. Offseason wishing time of course but ok guys your thoughts?

cap issues and the cost to acquire this may be more beneficial to the Vikings long term.

Alabama QBs get downgraded because they play with top talent. Lawrence has had the same luxury.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see Wilson or Fields have a better career.



TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/4/2021 1:01:59 PM)

Isn't 3 first rounders more than Houston is asking for Watson?



Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/4/2021 1:02:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Drafting Moritz Böhringer was bold. Giving Brock Lesnar a try was bold.

Predicting they would draft Bohringer would be super bold.

Being in the 2021 Vikes Talk Draft Challenge would be super duper bold.



David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/4/2021 1:07:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Drafting Moritz Böhringer was bold. Giving Brock Lesnar a try was bold.

Predicting they would draft Bohringer would be super bold.


You and the rest of the world...

It was a foregone conclusion he'd be a Viking well before the draft. It was basically a publicity stunt like the Brock Lesner "experiment".

quote:

The Vikings, like all NFL teams, were at the March 31 Florida Atlantic pro day in Boca Raton, Fla., where Boehringer impressed scouts with a 4.43-second 40-yard dash and 39-inch vertical leap. The next week, Boehringer was in Minnesota meeting general manager Rick Spielman, coach Mike Zimmer and receivers coach George Stewart.

“They knew that the Vikings were my favorite team,” Boehringer said. “I think my agent (Kyle Strongin) told them. It would be a dream come true to be able to play for them.”

Strongin said the Vikings have done extensive research on Boehringer and requested his medical records.


quote:

If Boehringer isn’t picked, he said his first choice would be signing with the Vikings as a free agent. He only can imagine what it would be like to be Peterson’s teammate.

“That would be so cool,’’ he said. “Of course, it would be a great honor to play with him.’’


quote:

Mike Mayock made a plea to Minnesota general manager Rick Spielman and head coach Mike Zimmer to take the German receiver. Zimmer didn't take long to call Mayock and the two had a brief conversation.



bohumm -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/4/2021 2:25:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Not surprising that some people do not know what "bold" means. In our current society, it's hard to have a meaningful discussion/debate/argument because basic terms with concrete definitions now have totally fungible meanings to meet the needs of propagandists. It's almost as though there is such a thing as alternative facts.....

Boldness Scale
Allen Trade: Somewhat bold
Diggs Trade: Forced; return commensurate with value
Keenum signing: Mundane

Propagandists/Propaganda Victims: "Boldest moves ever. Like nothing that's been seen before. Only Rick can solve these riddles...."


I wasn't the one that said the GM doesn't do anything bold. You look at the result of the Diggs Trade (trading Diggs/drafting JJeff), signing Keenum and he took us to the NFC Championship game and there are other moves that prove that you can't say he isn't bold at times.

Anyway argue on.

Diggs was gone or a problem. JJ was luck, plain and simple, though at least they recognized his talent. He never should have been available, and counting on a rookie WR (because they couldn't know JJ would be available or start as well as he did) with the rest of the dreck he'd accumulated behind Thielen was reckless and showed his incompetence. Signing Keenum doesn't meet anyone's definition of "bold" except yours, and we already know you struggle with plain language.


Really? You trade away an All-Pro and with that pick you get an All-Pro....not bold at all? You might need to re-read your dictionary. So you thought that all along that was going to work out on the plus side for the Vikes?

I thought we would be hurting at WR after the trade....I was wrong as were the majority plus other teams that drafted WR higher. Makes it a bold move.

If you know you are getting an All Pro and picks in return for an All Pro, it's the opposite of bold; it's a guaranteed win. If the All Pro going out tells you he'll disrupt your program if you don't trade him and he's done so in the past, that's not bold, that's desperate. If the best receiver in the draft subsequently falls in your lap, that's not bold. If you think the smart teams will take JJ earlier and you count on that to populate your starting lineup because you have failed so thoroughly in acquiring WR talent beyond the starters, that's stupid, not bold.

Diggs had him over a barrel, we had a barren WR room beyond Theilen, and his plan was to hope a starter fell to him in the draft? Not bold.



bohumm -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/4/2021 3:19:39 PM)

So Phil doesn't know what "bold" means......



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/4/2021 3:41:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

So Phil doesn't know what "bold" means......


Yep, look no further than him saying Keenum was a bold move. As DL pointed out, signing a backup on a one year, $2 million contract is not bold. It's less than routine.

Has to be confusion with the definition.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/4/2021 3:44:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

No. Allen was 25 and one the top pass rushers in football. A first and two thirds at that time did not require a lot of bravery.

No. Diggs forced the trade. I wouldn't call someone bold for caving in and moving a disgruntled player who was determined to make life miserable until he was dealt.


He had 2 strikes against him and other teams were scared to trade for him.

He received a ton of capital for Diggs.....

You are exaggerating by saying he wasn't bold.



As alluded to, the more draft capital he got for Diggs, the less "bold" the move was.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/4/2021 3:53:04 PM)

Drafing players and signing FA aren't bold? You can always pick the wrong guy.....picking the right guys is the definition of bold.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, what we see in pure black and white is a failure to of someone to understand, then misapplying, the meaning of the world "bold".

Your honor, the people who understand basic words rest their case.



Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/4/2021 4:44:38 PM)

Bold:
adjective
1.
(of a person, action, or idea) showing an ability to take risks; confident and courageous.
"a bold attempt to solve the crisis"

Luck:
success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

“ picking the right guys is the definition of ̷B̷ ̷o̷ ̷l̷ ̷d̷ luck...”



Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/4/2021 5:11:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Bold:
adjective
1.
(of a person, action, or idea) showing an ability to take risks; confident and courageous.
"a bold attempt to solve the crisis"

Luck:
success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

“ picking the right guys is the definition of ̷B̷ ̷o̷ ̷l̷ ̷d̷ luck...”


Moving up to get Harrison Smith? Just another example....but continue to agree with Sweens. I don't on this one.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/4/2021 5:21:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Bold:
adjective
1.
(of a person, action, or idea) showing an ability to take risks; confident and courageous.
"a bold attempt to solve the crisis"

Luck:
success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

“ picking the right guys is the definition of ̷B̷ ̷o̷ ̷l̷ ̷d̷ luck...”


Moving up to get Harrison Smith? Just another example....but continue to agree with Sweens. I don't on this one.



Just another example? Only to something that most all GMs do on occasion.

He's traded up some but he's also traded down a lot. Trading down helps remove risk.

A team giving up a lot to trade up for RGIII or Trubisky is bold.

How is it when everyone who has replied has disagreed with your take on 'bold', you continue to triple and quadruple down? Might you think YOU might have it wrong?



David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/4/2021 5:32:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Bold:
adjective
1.
(of a person, action, or idea) showing an ability to take risks; confident and courageous.
"a bold attempt to solve the crisis"

Luck:
success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

“ picking the right guys is the definition of ̷B̷ ̷o̷ ̷l̷ ̷d̷ luck...”


Moving up to get Harrison Smith? Just another example....but continue to agree with Sweens. I don't on this one.


So by your definition, if Smith would've been a bust, it wouldn't have been a bold move?



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/4/2021 5:42:15 PM)

The thing with RS now is he could trade picks left and right, which could be a sign of mortgaging the future to let him continue for a while.



bohumm -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/4/2021 6:03:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Bold:
adjective
1.
(of a person, action, or idea) showing an ability to take risks; confident and courageous.
"a bold attempt to solve the crisis"

Luck:
success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

“ picking the right guys is the definition of ̷B̷ ̷o̷ ̷l̷ ̷d̷ luck...”


Moving up to get Harrison Smith? Just another example....but continue to agree with Sweens. I don't on this one.

He should have held his spot and taken Bobby Wagner, but go ahead.....



Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/4/2021 7:15:12 PM)

I'd rather give it up for Trevor Lawrence than Watson but I see no mega trades this off season. I think they believe the return of healthy players and an addition or 2 or 3 is going to see them in the thick of things as a top NFC team. I'm going to roll with it.



joejitsu -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/4/2021 7:31:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Bold:
adjective
1.
(of a person, action, or idea) showing an ability to take risks; confident and courageous.
"a bold attempt to solve the crisis"

Luck:
success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

“ picking the right guys is the definition of ̷B̷ ̷o̷ ̷l̷ ̷d̷ luck...”


Moving up to get Harrison Smith? Just another example....but continue to agree with Sweens. I don't on this one.

He should have held his spot and taken Bobby Wagner, but go ahead.....


Hindsight is 20/20. Easy to judge something after the fact. That's why we are sitting in front of computers and professionals are making personnel decisions.



David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/4/2021 7:57:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Bold:
adjective
1.
(of a person, action, or idea) showing an ability to take risks; confident and courageous.
"a bold attempt to solve the crisis"

Luck:
success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

“ picking the right guys is the definition of ̷B̷ ̷o̷ ̷l̷ ̷d̷ luck...”


Moving up to get Harrison Smith? Just another example....but continue to agree with Sweens. I don't on this one.

He should have held his spot and taken Bobby Wagner, but go ahead.....


Hindsight is 20/20. Easy to judge something after the fact. That's why we are sitting in front of computers and professionals are making personnel decisions.


Plenty of folks involved in that draft (or any draft really) are now sitting in front of their computers. Most teams have alll sorts of personnel that are terrible at drafting. By shear dumb luck alone any one of us would have drafted multiple stars if given the same number of tries as many of these experts get.



TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/4/2021 8:39:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Bold:
adjective
1.
(of a person, action, or idea) showing an ability to take risks; confident and courageous.
"a bold attempt to solve the crisis"

Luck:
success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

“ picking the right guys is the definition of ̷B̷ ̷o̷ ̷l̷ ̷d̷ luck...”


Moving up to get Harrison Smith? Just another example....but continue to agree with Sweens. I don't on this one.


So by your definition, if Smith would've been a bust, it wouldn't have been a bold move?

Bottom line, giving up a 4th round pick to move from the second to the first round isn't exactly a bold and daring, damn the consequences move.



thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/4/2021 9:54:18 PM)

This post is bold.



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/4/2021 10:47:32 PM)

I have been sometimes told by others that I can be bold, even my ex-wife said that about me [8|], but it can get you into trouble at times.

I think you can be bold sometimes without being confident, you're just taking a risk, being courageous, in a possibly reckless manner.

The ideal would be to match that boldness with experience and intelligence and knowledge. I am lacking on the knowledge end, and on certain intelligent ends as well.

I think Rick is bold enough to try and get Watson, but it would probably take getting a 1st for Garrapolo, and maybe allowing a really good player to go.

I thinking, as Paul Dierecks suggested earlier, trading for Trevor Lawrence would be less smart, and more risky, but might have more upside than Watson. THAT is the kind of risk I would take, and reality will probably play out to prove that would have been a bad decision, to show why I shouldn't be a GM.

I would have had Warren Sapp [instead of Derrick Amexander] Randall Cunningham, David Boston, Bernardo Harris, Jeremiah Trotter, Ryan Slope, Joe Thomas, Dwayne Bowe, Greg Jennings, Julius Peppers, Jordan Reed, Sheldon Richardson, DeShaun Watson or Trevor Lawrence, all in a Vikings' uniform.



Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/5/2021 6:46:49 AM)

Anybody know what the cap hit is if we trade Dalvin Cook? If people are seriously looking at a trade, that's the guy with the most value who is going to get you the most return. Running backs are a dime-a-dozen in the NFL, but some clubs still think it's 1975. Who are the two starting running backs in the Super Bowl? Who were the two starters the year before that? And the year before that?

I said the same thing about Peterson when he was here. Trade Cook now while he has value. He's one more knee injury away from being just a guy.



Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/5/2021 7:12:11 AM)

22 dead in 2021, 17 in 2022, 6 in 2023.

Not sure any of those years warrant a trade for a guy that's worth just over 8 cents....if RB's are a dime a dozen.



Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/5/2021 7:22:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

22 dead in 2021, 17 in 2022, 6 in 2023.

Not sure any of those years warrant a trade for a guy that's worth just over 8 cents....if RB's are a dime a dozen.

The Jets, Texans, Falcons and Eagles all need a running back. That gets you a high pick for one of the top quarterbacks. You live for one more year with Cousins and then dump him.



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