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Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2021 9:31:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H How does he do in the final two minutes? It's the only stat that matters. Cousins had the #30 QB Rating in the final two minutes of halves last season. You can't be that bad and have any real expectations of a deep run in the playoffs. The final two minutes is about leadership, charisma and moxy. He has very little of it. [&:] Like clockwork - posting the same 2020 stat over and over again. What's the p value on that n sample when compared to his season and career? Or even more relevant - compared to final two minutes for his career? Perhaps reposting facts bothers your narrative...

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2021 9:52:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H How does he do in the final two minutes? It's the only stat that matters. Cousins had the #30 QB Rating in the final two minutes of halves last season. You can't be that bad and have any real expectations of a deep run in the playoffs. The final two minutes is about leadership, charisma and moxy. He has very little of it. [&:] Like clockwork - posting the same 2020 stat over and over again. What's the p value on that n sample when compared to his season and career? Or even more relevant - compared to final two minutes for his career? Perhaps reposting facts bothers your narrative... What's my narrative?

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2021 11:15:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H How does he do in the final two minutes? It's the only stat that matters. Cousins had the #30 QB Rating in the final two minutes of halves last season. You can't be that bad and have any real expectations of a deep run in the playoffs. The final two minutes is about leadership, charisma and moxy. He has very little of it. [&:] Like clockwork - posting the same 2020 stat over and over again. What's the p value on that n sample when compared to his season and career? Or even more relevant - compared to final two minutes for his career? Perhaps reposting facts bothers your narrative... What's my narrative? What bothers me is it's a cherry picked stat that I don't even know if it's true that Brad uses to push his agenda. He's not even a Vikings fan.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2021 11:17:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H How does a guy with the #30 Quarterback Rating in the final two minutes of halves suddenly become a top-5 or top-10 quarterback? You guys are living in an amnesia-filled, spring/summer fog. Kirk Cousins is a 15-20 quarterback in the league. That's what he is. Sometimes he looks like a top-10 guy. Sometimes he looks like a 25-32 guy. What year did you get that stat from? I just read a Dec. 3rd, 2020 article from PFF saying Cousins has one of the top 4th quarter ratings. I'm not putting a lot of stock in it because we had 3-4 games with some garbage time to it. And I don't believe Cousins is better in 4th quarters than Mahomes(who he is ahead of). End of 1st halves really mean nothing to me when you have Zimmer as a HC. We sit on it many more times than we get aggressive. Especially on the Road or if we are ahead. Or if we are getting the 2nd half KO. Or if we are deep in our own territory. https://www.footballdb.com/statistics/nfl/player-splits/passing/last-two-minutes-half/2020 Rating in the final two minutes of halves was 63.7. 54-of-96 (56.2%) for 640 yards, five touchdowns, seven interceptions (only sacked twice). HE WAS AWFUL, PERIOD! Brady was 43 of 76 for 56.6% also 5 TDs (with 0 INTs/0 Sacks) DETESTABLE! 0 interceptions for Brady. That's the stat you seem to be missing. Cousins had seven. Not even comparable numbers. The great ones flourish under pressure. The weak ones crack. Since I mentioned it in the post above and specifically spoke to it in my post after ... I obviously didn’t miss it. The numbers are very comparable, except for the INTS ... which is unfortunately one of the side effects of having better-than-avg Cousins. What you are trying to say is that none of the numbers are comparable BECAUSE OF the INTs. That’s only because you are trying to shape and mold stats as you go along. You were the one posting the debunked numbers to begin with. I hobbled your original premise, I put a post between its ankles and I used a 5lb. heavy hammer to snap the foot right at the 2:00 mark. So I understand the mad scramble to shift focus. [sm=ditto.gif]

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2021 7:38:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Cousins is in the 11-15 range in terms of QBs. QBs I 100% put ahead of him: Rodgers Brady Watson Mahomes Dak Josh Allen Russel Wilson QBs I 80% sure put ahead of him: Tannehill Lamar Jackson Justin Herbert Rapeyburger QBs I 60% sure put ahead of him: Derek Carr Matt Ryan Kyler Murray Drew Brees would have been in the 100% category but not in 2020. What has Carr ever done (division title), Ryan has lost it, Big Ben can't stay healthy. You can't put a QB that is always hurt above Kirk. You have to look at wins also: Above Kirk: Rodgers, Brady, Watson, Mahomes, Allen, Wilson. Jackson...no doubt. Equal with Kirk: Tannehill, Herbert (hasn't won anything), Dak (hasn't won anything, injuries). Just below Kirk: Big Ben (tons of injuries lately), Ryan (lost it) Carr (can't win)

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2021 8:36:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H How does he do in the final two minutes? It's the only stat that matters. Cousins had the #30 QB Rating in the final two minutes of halves last season. You can't be that bad and have any real expectations of a deep run in the playoffs. The final two minutes is about leadership, charisma and moxy. He has very little of it. [&:] Like clockwork - posting the same 2020 stat over and over again. What's the p value on that n sample when compared to his season and career? Or even more relevant - compared to final two minutes for his career? Perhaps reposting facts bothers your narrative... What's my narrative? What bothers me is it's a cherry picked stat that I don't even know if it's true that Brad uses to push his agenda. He's not even a Vikings fan. I agree, it is a cherry picked stat. And a damned important one. And a real one (I posted the link earlier).

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2021 8:44:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H How does a guy with the #30 Quarterback Rating in the final two minutes of halves suddenly become a top-5 or top-10 quarterback? You guys are living in an amnesia-filled, spring/summer fog. Kirk Cousins is a 15-20 quarterback in the league. That's what he is. Sometimes he looks like a top-10 guy. Sometimes he looks like a 25-32 guy. What year did you get that stat from? I just read a Dec. 3rd, 2020 article from PFF saying Cousins has one of the top 4th quarter ratings. I'm not putting a lot of stock in it because we had 3-4 games with some garbage time to it. And I don't believe Cousins is better in 4th quarters than Mahomes(who he is ahead of). End of 1st halves really mean nothing to me when you have Zimmer as a HC. We sit on it many more times than we get aggressive. Especially on the Road or if we are ahead. Or if we are getting the 2nd half KO. Or if we are deep in our own territory. https://www.footballdb.com/statistics/nfl/player-splits/passing/last-two-minutes-half/2020 Rating in the final two minutes of halves was 63.7. 54-of-96 (56.2%) for 640 yards, five touchdowns, seven interceptions (only sacked twice). HE WAS AWFUL, PERIOD! Brady was 43 of 76 for 56.6% also 5 TDs (with 0 INTs/0 Sacks) DETESTABLE! 0 interceptions for Brady. That's the stat you seem to be missing. Cousins had seven. Not even comparable numbers. The great ones flourish under pressure. The weak ones crack. Since I mentioned it in the post above and specifically spoke to it in my post after ... I obviously didn’t miss it. The numbers are very comparable, except for the INTS ... which is unfortunately one of the side effects of having better-than-avg Cousins. What you are trying to say is that none of the numbers are comparable BECAUSE OF the INTs. That’s only because you are trying to shape and mold stats as you go along. You were the one posting the debunked numbers to begin with. I hobbled your original premise, I put a post between its ankles and I used a 5lb. heavy hammer to snap the foot right at the 2:00 mark. So I understand the mad scramble to shift focus. You can't just omit the interceptions and say the numbers are comparable. That's a fairly important stat for a quarterback, wouldn't you say? Especially during crunch time. One guy had zero interceptions in the final two minutes. The other guy had seven. Which guy would you want to be your quarterback? To say they were even close to even is living in a dream world. It's not close. It's not comparable. The job of the quarterback is to deliver the ball. That's his job.

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2021 8:53:56 AM)
I will put down my box of popcorn long enough to point out that Brad has just executed the double cherry pick. He has cherry picked one component of his cherry picked stat. Picking the popcorn back up. [sm=popcorn.gif]

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2021 8:59:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens I will put down my box of popcorn long enough to point out that Brad has just executed the double cherry pick. He has cherry picked one component of his cherry picked stat. Picking the popcorn back up. [sm=popcorn.gif] And I have zero embarrassment over it. When a guy throws seven interceptions during crunch time, it should be pointed out. He's a bad two-minute quarterback. To overlook crunch time would be neglectful. The guy led the league in interceptions in the final two minutes of halves. Nearly doubled his closest competitor. Matt Ryan (4), Drew Lock (4), Ryan Fitzpatrick (4), Alex Smith (4). Any of those guys interest you?

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2021 9:06:52 AM)
Thru Week 10 last year: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-best-worst-quarterbacks-situation-through-week-10-2020-season Before the 2020 season: 5th best playaction QB Kirk actually had 3 GW drives last year....same as TB.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2021 9:13:56 AM)
Pretty interesting: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/fumbles-lost Josh Allen, Taysom Hill, Carr, and Jones had more. Wilson, Murray, Jackson, Wentz, Minshew, Goff, Mayfield, Goff, and Burrow (6 less games) just one less. Dak had 2 less but missed 11 games....

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2021 9:15:53 AM)
As I said 5 days ago...Them's fightin words Phil. I think I will switch to kettle corn for the next 5 days worth of Cousins arguments.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2021 9:23:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Pretty interesting: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/fumbles-lost Josh Allen, Taysom Hill, Carr, and Jones had more. Wilson, Murray, Jackson, Wentz, Minshew, Goff, Mayfield, Goff, and Burrow (6 less games) just one less. Dak had 2 less but missed 11 games.... Josh Allen, 102 rushing attempts, 8 TD's, 6 fumbles Taysom Hill, 87 rushing attempts, 8 TD's, 6 fumbles Kirk Cousins, 33 rushing attempts, 1 TD, 5 fumbles Kyler Murray, 133 rushing attempts, 11 TD's, 4 fumbles Which one of these is not like the other?

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2021 9:27:12 AM)
How many fumbles actually occurred on rushing attempts? Otherwise, you're just combining 2 unrelated stats.

bohumm -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2021 9:28:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens As I said 5 days ago...Them's fightin words Phil. I think I will switch to kettle corn for the next 5 days worth of Cousins arguments. Low-sodium, though. This will be going on approximately----(checks watch)----forever.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2021 9:33:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens How many fumbles actually occurred on rushing attempts? Otherwise, you're just combining 2 unrelated stats. They are not unrelated at all. For some quarterbacks, the reward of running the football is worth the risk. If Cousins had the ability to run, he would. It's just another deficiency in his game. He can't run and he can't make plays in the final two minutes of halves. Tom Brady can't run either. He had one lost fumble. Philip Rivers, one. Ben Roethlisberger, zero. Why? Because they take care of the ball.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2021 9:37:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Pretty interesting: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/fumbles-lost Josh Allen, Taysom Hill, Carr, and Jones had more. Wilson, Murray, Jackson, Wentz, Minshew, Goff, Mayfield, Goff, and Burrow (6 less games) just one less. Dak had 2 less but missed 11 games.... Josh Allen, 102 rushing attempts, 8 TD's, 6 fumbles Taysom Hill, 87 rushing attempts, 8 TD's, 6 fumbles Kirk Cousins, 33 rushing attempts, 1 TD, 5 fumbles Kyler Murray, 133 rushing attempts, 11 TD's, 4 fumbles Which one of these is not like the other? Cherry picking (missing quite a few off of the list).....If the line is improved I think the fumble issue will improve...IMO. It isn't necessarily rushing QBs either; they handle the ball a ton; so it will happen at times.....Tom fumbled it 4 times last year with a better line.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2021 9:39:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Pretty interesting: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/fumbles-lost Josh Allen, Taysom Hill, Carr, and Jones had more. Wilson, Murray, Jackson, Wentz, Minshew, Goff, Mayfield, Goff, and Burrow (6 less games) just one less. Dak had 2 less but missed 11 games.... Josh Allen, 102 rushing attempts, 8 TD's, 6 fumbles Taysom Hill, 87 rushing attempts, 8 TD's, 6 fumbles Kirk Cousins, 33 rushing attempts, 1 TD, 5 fumbles Kyler Murray, 133 rushing attempts, 11 TD's, 4 fumbles Which one of these is not like the other? Cherry picking (missing quite a few off of the list).....If the line is improved I think the fumble issue will improve...IMO. Could be. We'll see. I'm not holding my breath though.

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2021 9:42:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens How many fumbles actually occurred on rushing attempts? Otherwise, you're just combining 2 unrelated stats. They are not unrelated at all. For some quarterbacks, the reward of running the football is worth the risk. If Cousins had the ability to run, he would. It's just another deficiency in his game. He can't run and he can't make plays in the final two minutes of halves. Tom Brady can't run either. He had one lost fumble. Philip Rivers, one. Ben Roethlisberger, zero. Why? Because they take care of the ball. Unrelated and pointless. Quarterback runs end with the QB stepping out of bounds, crossing the goal line or hitting the deck before contact.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2021 9:45:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens How many fumbles actually occurred on rushing attempts? Otherwise, you're just combining 2 unrelated stats. They are not unrelated at all. For some quarterbacks, the reward of running the football is worth the risk. If Cousins had the ability to run, he would. It's just another deficiency in his game. He can't run and he can't make plays in the final two minutes of halves. Tom Brady can't run either. He had one lost fumble. Philip Rivers, one. Ben Roethlisberger, zero. Why? Because they take care of the ball. Unrelated and pointless. Quarterback runs end with the QB stepping out of bounds, crossing the goal line or hitting the deck before contact. Are you saying Josh Allen, Taysom Hill, Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray never got hit?

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2021 9:49:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens How many fumbles actually occurred on rushing attempts? Otherwise, you're just combining 2 unrelated stats. They are not unrelated at all. For some quarterbacks, the reward of running the football is worth the risk. If Cousins had the ability to run, he would. It's just another deficiency in his game. He can't run and he can't make plays in the final two minutes of halves. Tom Brady can't run either. He had one lost fumble. Philip Rivers, one. Ben Roethlisberger, zero. Why? Because they take care of the ball. Unrelated and pointless. Quarterback runs end with the QB stepping out of bounds, crossing the goal line or hitting the deck before contact. Are you saying Josh Allen, Taysom Hill, Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray never got hit? Never? No. Just not very often on running plays. QB's are trained to end the run before they get hit. Tell me how many of their fumbles came on runs.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2021 9:51:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens How many fumbles actually occurred on rushing attempts? Otherwise, you're just combining 2 unrelated stats. They are not unrelated at all. For some quarterbacks, the reward of running the football is worth the risk. If Cousins had the ability to run, he would. It's just another deficiency in his game. He can't run and he can't make plays in the final two minutes of halves. Tom Brady can't run either. He had one lost fumble. Philip Rivers, one. Ben Roethlisberger, zero. Why? Because they take care of the ball. Unrelated and pointless. Quarterback runs end with the QB stepping out of bounds, crossing the goal line or hitting the deck before contact. Are you saying Josh Allen, Taysom Hill, Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray never got hit? Never? No. Just not very often on running plays. QB's are trained to end the run before they get hit. Tell me how many of their fumbles came on runs. I watched Josh Allen almost every play this season because he was my fantasy quarterback. The lion's share of his fumbles came when he was running. He doesn't duck anybody. He's a man child.

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2021 9:57:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens I will put down my box of popcorn long enough to point out that Brad has just executed the double cherry pick. He has cherry picked one component of his cherry picked stat. Picking the popcorn back up. [sm=popcorn.gif] [&:][&:]

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2021 9:58:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens How many fumbles actually occurred on rushing attempts? Otherwise, you're just combining 2 unrelated stats. They are not unrelated at all. For some quarterbacks, the reward of running the football is worth the risk. If Cousins had the ability to run, he would. It's just another deficiency in his game. He can't run and he can't make plays in the final two minutes of halves. Tom Brady can't run either. He had one lost fumble. Philip Rivers, one. Ben Roethlisberger, zero. Why? Because they take care of the ball. Unrelated and pointless. Quarterback runs end with the QB stepping out of bounds, crossing the goal line or hitting the deck before contact. Are you saying Josh Allen, Taysom Hill, Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray never got hit? Never? No. Just not very often on running plays. QB's are trained to end the run before they get hit. Tell me how many of their fumbles came on runs. I watched Josh Allen almost every play this season because he was my fantasy quarterback. The lion's share of his fumbles came when he was running. He doesn't duck anybody. He's a man child. Provide the numbers for all the QB's you listed to support your argument.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2021 10:02:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens How many fumbles actually occurred on rushing attempts? Otherwise, you're just combining 2 unrelated stats. They are not unrelated at all. For some quarterbacks, the reward of running the football is worth the risk. If Cousins had the ability to run, he would. It's just another deficiency in his game. He can't run and he can't make plays in the final two minutes of halves. Tom Brady can't run either. He had one lost fumble. Philip Rivers, one. Ben Roethlisberger, zero. Why? Because they take care of the ball. Unrelated and pointless. Quarterback runs end with the QB stepping out of bounds, crossing the goal line or hitting the deck before contact. Are you saying Josh Allen, Taysom Hill, Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray never got hit? Never? No. Just not very often on running plays. QB's are trained to end the run before they get hit. Tell me how many of their fumbles came on runs. I watched Josh Allen almost every play this season because he was my fantasy quarterback. The lion's share of his fumbles came when he was running. He doesn't duck anybody. He's a man child. Provide the numbers for all the QB's you listed to support your argument. No thank you. Innocent until proven guilty. You say I'm wrong. Prove it.

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