quote:

I'm trying to think if there is any SB winning QB(other than Brady) who wasn't on their rookie deal when they won their SB. Since QB salaries exploded. Last 10-15 years.

Maybe analytics tell us to find our rookie QB and build a powerhouse behind him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
who would you rather cut, harrison smith or adam thielen?...or both? - each move would save the team $6m in cap space...which one is easier to replace?....

if the vikings are going to go for the gold in 2022 we have to keep both cousins, and hunter....

we are going to cut pierce and ham and save $8m there....

restructure kendricks and save $4m....

i think we should restructure cousins by adding a couple of ghost years onto his existing deal and lower his 2022 cap hit by about $15m...he would still be a free agent after 2022....

we could keep hunter's deal just the way it is...two years left at about $17.3m/yr...2022 cap hit on the high side at $26m, but a very cap-friendly $8.6m in 2023...or we could extend him a little and save some cap space this season....


if we leave hunter's deal alone and do everything else we'll be between $12m - $22m under the 2022 cap...depending on smith and thielen....

we still need players....

I think Thielen would give us a home state salary cut. Maybe 25%.

How often does that happen?

If he goes down to a salary that is equal or slightly greater than what he could get on open market. Not having to be away from his family in another city or moving them all to another city. Level headed guy who is set for life already.

Injuries and age would prevent other teams from giving him a big offer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

I'm trying to think if there is any SB winning QB(other than Brady) who wasn't on their rookie deal when they won their SB. Since QB salaries exploded. Last 10-15 years.

Maybe analytics tell us to find our rookie QB and build a powerhouse behind him.

Unless Burrows wins it all this year we're going to see a non-rookie-contract QB win it. That said the cap hits for Mahomes, Stafford, and Garropolo are much lower than the top guys.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
who would you rather cut, harrison smith or adam thielen?...or both? - each move would save the team $6m in cap space...which one is easier to replace?....

if the vikings are going to go for the gold in 2022 we have to keep both cousins, and hunter....

we are going to cut pierce and ham and save $8m there....

restructure kendricks and save $4m....

i think we should restructure cousins by adding a couple of ghost years onto his existing deal and lower his 2022 cap hit by about $15m...he would still be a free agent after 2022....

we could keep hunter's deal just the way it is...two years left at about $17.3m/yr...2022 cap hit on the high side at $26m, but a very cap-friendly $8.6m in 2023...or we could extend him a little and save some cap space this season....


if we leave hunter's deal alone and do everything else we'll be between $12m - $22m under the 2022 cap...depending on smith and thielen....

we still need players....

I think Thielen would give us a home state salary cut. Maybe 25%.

How often does that happen?

If he goes down to a salary that is equal or slightly greater than what he could get on open market. Not having to be away from his family in another city or moving them all to another city. Level headed guy who is set for life already.

Injuries and age would prevent other teams from giving him a big offer.

for thielen, his total cap hit is $17m...his 2022 salary is $12m and his dead cap is $11m...there's only $1m between the two....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

I'm trying to think if there is any SB winning QB(other than Brady, Brees) who wasn't on their rookie deal when they won their SB. Since QB salaries exploded. Last 10-15 years.

Maybe analytics tell us to find our rookie QB and build a powerhouse behind him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Saw a graphic once on super bowl winning QBs and their percentage of the cap. It was enlightening.


I don’t think somebody like Dak will ever win one. They didn’t sniff a super bowl when he was a minuscule portion of the cap. Now he is a big portion. That means less talent around him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M
Can we do an extension that makes sense?

Kirk has taken us to the cleaners
..can he agree to something that isn't csp busting? If he can't then he has to go. No conference championships or SB's to your name and you simply don't deserve 30 something million.

I don't hate him. But I'm so OK with trading him.

It all depends on Adofo-Mensah's vision for the team is. If he thinks he can retool around the existing core, he will need to extend Cousins and lower his cap hit. I know a lot of people don't want to hear that, but if the Vikings expect to contend right away there really aren't any other QB options available to them.

If Adofo-Mensah thinks it's time to start over, then a full blow up including Cousins and Cook. In that case the house needs to be gutted right to the studs.

Even though I recognized KC's big pitfalls as a QB, I always defended him as not being "the problem". That all changed last year. He needs to go. He's extremely selfish IMO.

I respect everyone's right to choose for themselves but when your choice impacts the entire org and you choose yourself, I'm done with ya. It didn't take a rocket scientist to understand that he would most likely get Covid at some point. I get that he figured/knew it wouldn't affect him too badly. It was a lock it would take him out for, at least, 1 game. That it was the game that knocked us out of the playoffs was Karma punching the collective Viking fandom in the face.

I also get that Cooke/Smith ect were in the same boat but the drop-off from Cooke to Mattison ect is nothing compared to KC's and Mannion. As soon as he tested positive we were done. Had no chance.

How many vaccinated players missed games because of Covid?

Why not just stop conditioning and training in the offseason? Then when you get injured you can just say look at all the players who DID condition and train in the offseason also got hurt. We can minimize poor decisions all day long if you like.

Apples and Oranges.

Everyone can get Covid. I'm guessing in the range of 300-400 vaccinated players missed games because of Covid. If someone can find the actual number, please post it.

The rules were stupid. It took them(NFL) about 18 weeks to figure that out and now the rules are how it should have been all along.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Thielen will go somewhere with a real offensive minded coach and be a poor man's Cris Carter. Thielen has excelent hands, I would hate to see him go.

paying safeties big money is stupid and Smith should have been gone over a contract ago.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M
Can we do an extension that makes sense?

Kirk has taken us to the cleaners
..can he agree to something that isn't csp busting? If he can't then he has to go. No conference championships or SB's to your name and you simply don't deserve 30 something million.

I don't hate him. But I'm so OK with trading him.

It all depends on Adofo-Mensah's vision for the team is. If he thinks he can retool around the existing core, he will need to extend Cousins and lower his cap hit. I know a lot of people don't want to hear that, but if the Vikings expect to contend right away there really aren't any other QB options available to them.

If Adofo-Mensah thinks it's time to start over, then a full blow up including Cousins and Cook. In that case the house needs to be gutted right to the studs.

Even though I recognized KC's big pitfalls as a QB, I always defended him as not being "the problem". That all changed last year. He needs to go. He's extremely selfish IMO.

I respect everyone's right to choose for themselves but when your choice impacts the entire org and you choose yourself, I'm done with ya. It didn't take a rocket scientist to understand that he would most likely get Covid at some point. I get that he figured/knew it wouldn't affect him too badly. It was a lock it would take him out for, at least, 1 game. That it was the game that knocked us out of the playoffs was Karma punching the collective Viking fandom in the face.

I also get that Cooke/Smith ect were in the same boat but the drop-off from Cooke to Mattison ect is nothing compared to KC's and Mannion. As soon as he tested positive we were done. Had no chance.

How many vaccinated players missed games because of Covid?

Why not just stop conditioning and training in the offseason? Then when you get injured you can just say look at all the players who DID condition and train in the offseason also got hurt. We can minimize poor decisions all day long if you like.

Apples and Oranges.

Everyone can get Covid. I'm guessing in the range of 300-400 vaccinated players missed games because of Covid. If someone can find the actual number, please post it.

The rules were stupid. It took them(NFL) about 18 weeks to figure that out and now the rules are how it should have been all along.

Those were CDC rules. Same for us at work. Went from 10days to 5 for unvaxxed

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
who would you rather cut, harrison smith or adam thielen?...or both? - each move would save the team $6m in cap space...which one is easier to replace?....

if the vikings are going to go for the gold in 2022 we have to keep both cousins, and hunter....

we are going to cut pierce and ham and save $8m there....

restructure kendricks and save $4m....

i think we should restructure cousins by adding a couple of ghost years onto his existing deal and lower his 2022 cap hit by about $15m...he would still be a free agent after 2022....

we could keep hunter's deal just the way it is...two years left at about $17.3m/yr...2022 cap hit on the high side at $26m, but a very cap-friendly $8.6m in 2023...or we could extend him a little and save some cap space this season....


if we leave hunter's deal alone and do everything else we'll be between $12m - $22m under the 2022 cap...depending on smith and thielen....

we still need players....

I think Thielen would give us a home state salary cut. Maybe 25%.

How often does that happen?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson
...
A healthy, in their prime athlete has about the same chance of long term effects from Covid as having a serious side effect from the vaccine. That's what these guys are thinking about.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson
...
A healthy, in their prime athlete has about the same chance of long term effects from Covid as having a serious side effect from the vaccine. That's what these guys are thinking about.

That's just wrong.

For example, the chances of getting myocarditis from Covid are about 100x greater than getting it from the vaccine, and the cases are milder. Being vaccinated essentially eliminates the chances of long Covid. Per capita hospitalization rates are dramatically higher for the unvaccinated.

It's not a close call. These guys are getting suckered by people deliberately spreading misinformation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson
...
A healthy, in their prime athlete has about the same chance of long term effects from Covid as having a serious side effect from the vaccine. That's what these guys are thinking about.

That's just wrong.

For example, the chances of getting myocarditis from Covid are about 100x greater than getting it from the vaccine, and the cases are milder. Being vaccinated essentially eliminates the chances of long Covid. Per capita hospitalization rates are dramatically higher for the unvaccinated.

It's not a close call. These guys are getting suckered by people deliberately spreading misinformation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson
...
A healthy, in their prime athlete has about the same chance of long term effects from Covid as having a serious side effect from the vaccine. That's what these guys are thinking about.

That's just wrong.

For example, the chances of getting myocarditis from Covid are about 100x greater than getting it from the vaccine, and the cases are milder. Being vaccinated essentially eliminates the chances of long Covid. Per capita hospitalization rates are dramatically higher for the unvaccinated.

It's not a close call. These guys are getting suckered by people deliberately spreading misinformation.

I'm sure your stats are right for older unhealthy people.

Maybe you can name some unvaccinated players who are having trouble. I haven't heard of any.

Only one I have heard of was Dozier. I'm sure there are more but haven't heard any names.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson
...
A healthy, in their prime athlete has about the same chance of long term effects from Covid as having a serious side effect from the vaccine. That's what these guys are thinking about.

That's just wrong.

For example, the chances of getting myocarditis from Covid are about 100x greater than getting it from the vaccine, and the cases are milder. Being vaccinated essentially eliminates the chances of long Covid. Per capita hospitalization rates are dramatically higher for the unvaccinated.

It's not a close call. These guys are getting suckered by people deliberately spreading misinformation.

I'm sure your stats are right for older unhealthy people.

Maybe you can name some unvaccinated players who are having trouble. I haven't heard of any.

Only one I have heard of was Dozier. I'm sure there are more but haven't heard any names.

No, those stats are analyzed by age. For people in their 20's, the hospitalization rates are dramatically higher for the unvaccinated, especially compared to the boosted. The myocarditis age group is young men. Long Covid was a particular problem among college athletes, compared to other college age people (being "in shape" can lower immune response, although in this case I haven't seen any research that pins down any specific reasons).

I guess you missed Von Miller's extended Covid issues, which got a lot of press.

This season, you wouldn't have heard much. Nearly all NFL players were vaccinated, and I presume boosted when available. Multiple teams were at 100% before the season. That's why the NFL could change protocols, and that's why the holdouts stood out so much. Men of a comparable age have one of the lowest vaccination rates.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
who would you rather cut, harrison smith or adam thielen?...or both? - each move would save the team $6m in cap space...which one is easier to replace?....

if the vikings are going to go for the gold in 2022 we have to keep both cousins, and hunter....

we are going to cut pierce and ham and save $8m there....

restructure kendricks and save $4m....

i think we should restructure cousins by adding a couple of ghost years onto his existing deal and lower his 2022 cap hit by about $15m...he would still be a free agent after 2022....

we could keep hunter's deal just the way it is...two years left at about $17.3m/yr...2022 cap hit on the high side at $26m, but a very cap-friendly $8.6m in 2023...or we could extend him a little and save some cap space this season....


if we leave hunter's deal alone and do everything else we'll be between $12m - $22m under the 2022 cap...depending on smith and thielen....

we still need players....

I think Thielen would give us a home state salary cut. Maybe 25%.

How often does that happen?

If he goes down to a salary that is equal or slightly greater than what he could get on open market. Not having to be away from his family in another city or moving them all to another city. Level headed guy who is set for life already.

Injuries and age would prevent other teams from giving him a big offer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
who would you rather cut, harrison smith or adam thielen?...or both? - each move would save the team $6m in cap space...which one is easier to replace?....

if the vikings are going to go for the gold in 2022 we have to keep both cousins, and hunter....

we are going to cut pierce and ham and save $8m there....

restructure kendricks and save $4m....

i think we should restructure cousins by adding a couple of ghost years onto his existing deal and lower his 2022 cap hit by about $15m...he would still be a free agent after 2022....

we could keep hunter's deal just the way it is...two years left at about $17.3m/yr...2022 cap hit on the high side at $26m, but a very cap-friendly $8.6m in 2023...or we could extend him a little and save some cap space this season....


if we leave hunter's deal alone and do everything else we'll be between $12m - $22m under the 2022 cap...depending on smith and thielen....

we still need players....

I think Thielen would give us a home state salary cut. Maybe 25%.

How often does that happen?

If he goes down to a salary that is equal or slightly greater than what he could get on open market. Not having to be away from his family in another city or moving them all to another city. Level headed guy who is set for life already.

Injuries and age would prevent other teams from giving him a big offer.

You don't know his financial aspirations or goals.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
who would you rather cut, harrison smith or adam thielen?...or both? - each move would save the team $6m in cap space...which one is easier to replace?....

if the vikings are going to go for the gold in 2022 we have to keep both cousins, and hunter....

we are going to cut pierce and ham and save $8m there....

restructure kendricks and save $4m....

i think we should restructure cousins by adding a couple of ghost years onto his existing deal and lower his 2022 cap hit by about $15m...he would still be a free agent after 2022....

we could keep hunter's deal just the way it is...two years left at about $17.3m/yr...2022 cap hit on the high side at $26m, but a very cap-friendly $8.6m in 2023...or we could extend him a little and save some cap space this season....


if we leave hunter's deal alone and do everything else we'll be between $12m - $22m under the 2022 cap...depending on smith and thielen....

we still need players....

I think Thielen would give us a home state salary cut. Maybe 25%.

How often does that happen?

If he goes down to a salary that is equal or slightly greater than what he could get on open market. Not having to be away from his family in another city or moving them all to another city. Level headed guy who is set for life already.

Injuries and age would prevent other teams from giving him a big offer.

You don't know his financial aspirations or goals.

No. I don't.

But, I'm not suggesting minimum vet offer. 12M down to 8-9M isn't going to put him in the poor house.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
who would you rather cut, harrison smith or adam thielen?...or both? - each move would save the team $6m in cap space...which one is easier to replace?....

if the vikings are going to go for the gold in 2022 we have to keep both cousins, and hunter....

we are going to cut pierce and ham and save $8m there....

restructure kendricks and save $4m....

i think we should restructure cousins by adding a couple of ghost years onto his existing deal and lower his 2022 cap hit by about $15m...he would still be a free agent after 2022....

we could keep hunter's deal just the way it is...two years left at about $17.3m/yr...2022 cap hit on the high side at $26m, but a very cap-friendly $8.6m in 2023...or we could extend him a little and save some cap space this season....


if we leave hunter's deal alone and do everything else we'll be between $12m - $22m under the 2022 cap...depending on smith and thielen....

we still need players....

I think Thielen would give us a home state salary cut. Maybe 25%.

How often does that happen?

If he goes down to a salary that is equal or slightly greater than what he could get on open market. Not having to be away from his family in another city or moving them all to another city. Level headed guy who is set for life already.

Injuries and age would prevent other teams from giving him a big offer.

You don't know his financial aspirations or goals.

No. I don't.

But, I'm not suggesting minimum vet offer. 12M down to 8-9M isn't going to put him in the poor house.

Yeah, nobody is suggesting a vet min offer. That's very unreasonable.

He's just one of several aged players not living up to their bloated contracts. There are probably more that have established some degree of roots in Minny.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
who would you rather cut, harrison smith or adam thielen?...or both? - each move would save the team $6m in cap space...which one is easier to replace?....

if the vikings are going to go for the gold in 2022 we have to keep both cousins, and hunter....

we are going to cut pierce and ham and save $8m there....

restructure kendricks and save $4m....

i think we should restructure cousins by adding a couple of ghost years onto his existing deal and lower his 2022 cap hit by about $15m...he would still be a free agent after 2022....

we could keep hunter's deal just the way it is...two years left at about $17.3m/yr...2022 cap hit on the high side at $26m, but a very cap-friendly $8.6m in 2023...or we could extend him a little and save some cap space this season....


if we leave hunter's deal alone and do everything else we'll be between $12m - $22m under the 2022 cap...depending on smith and thielen....

we still need players....

I think Thielen would give us a home state salary cut. Maybe 25%.

How often does that happen?

If he goes down to a salary that is equal or slightly greater than what he could get on open market. Not having to be away from his family in another city or moving them all to another city. Level headed guy who is set for life already.

Injuries and age would prevent other teams from giving him a big offer.

You don't know his financial aspirations or goals.

No. I don't.

But, I'm not suggesting minimum vet offer. 12M down to 8-9M isn't going to put him in the poor house.

Yeah, nobody is suggesting a vet min offer. That's very unreasonable.

He's just one of several aged players not living up to their bloated contracts. There are probably more that have established some degree of roots in Minny.

NFL contracts are more complicated than just lowering the salary...all parties would have to agree to a contract rebuild and even if he did lower his salary from $12m to $9m he would still have a minimum cap hit of $6.8m in 2023 - which exists in his present deal....

the only clean way to deal with it is to let him go now, absorb his $11.1m dead cap hit, and negotiate from there...that would mean an offer to thielen of just $6m would bring his cap hit up to its current level of $16.8m for 2022....

so, a two-year deal at $10m fully guaranteed could be $4m in '22, and $6m in '23...would he take $10m total, guaranteed, to stay with the vikings two more years?....

could we trade thielen and his $12m 2022 salary for a 3rd or 4th round pick?...i doubt it because it has a $13m salary in 2023, which probably makes it a one-year rental....

the vikings are $15m over the cap in 2022, but 'right now' we're $73m under the cap in 2023...we could let thielen and smith go today and absorb the cap hit, and then renegotiate a reasonable two-year deal with each that is backloaded in 2023...nothing big, i'm talking $4m/'22 and $6m/'23 for each, fully guaranteed...they retire as vikings in early 2024....

so 'right now' we're $73m under the cap in 2023, but all we have is kellen mond at quarterback, depending on what we do in the 2022 draft....

also, if we let pierce and ham go this offseason we'll add another $15m to that surplus, and whatever we can save with thielen and smilth, which could be considerable depending on how that works out....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

I see Speilman is blaming Zimmer for everything unraveling.

And Zimmer's GF is on twitter blaming Speilman.