RE: General Vikes Talk

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BosViking -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/30/2022 12:07:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson I see Speilman is blaming Zimmer for everything unraveling. And Zimmer's GF is on twitter blaming Speilman. Stay classy San Diego. both showed their true colors both set us back many years we paid both handsomely while they were here (and not producing..... two playoff wins in their whole tenure, one via miracle, one via overtime.... followed by an embarrassment the following week in the playoffs in both cases) and we are STILL paying them handsomely even after firing them.... add it all up.... they fd us..... I have no respect for either

thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/30/2022 1:12:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . . who would you rather cut, harrison smith or adam thielen?...or both? - each move would save the team $6m in cap space...which one is easier to replace?.... if the vikings are going to go for the gold in 2022 we have to keep both cousins, and hunter.... we are going to cut pierce and ham and save $8m there.... restructure kendricks and save $4m.... i think we should restructure cousins by adding a couple of ghost years onto his existing deal and lower his 2022 cap hit by about $15m...he would still be a free agent after 2022.... we could keep hunter's deal just the way it is...two years left at about $17.3m/yr...2022 cap hit on the high side at $26m, but a very cap-friendly $8.6m in 2023...or we could extend him a little and save some cap space this season.... if we leave hunter's deal alone and do everything else we'll be between $12m - $22m under the 2022 cap...depending on smith and thielen.... we still need players.... I think Thielen would give us a home state salary cut. Maybe 25%. How often does that happen? If he goes down to a salary that is equal or slightly greater than what he could get on open market. Not having to be away from his family in another city or moving them all to another city. Level headed guy who is set for life already. Injuries and age would prevent other teams from giving him a big offer. You don't know his financial aspirations or goals. If he can afford to eat beans and weinies for the rest of his life, he's set.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/30/2022 2:40:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . . who would you rather cut, harrison smith or adam thielen?...or both? - each move would save the team $6m in cap space...which one is easier to replace?.... if the vikings are going to go for the gold in 2022 we have to keep both cousins, and hunter.... we are going to cut pierce and ham and save $8m there.... restructure kendricks and save $4m.... i think we should restructure cousins by adding a couple of ghost years onto his existing deal and lower his 2022 cap hit by about $15m...he would still be a free agent after 2022.... we could keep hunter's deal just the way it is...two years left at about $17.3m/yr...2022 cap hit on the high side at $26m, but a very cap-friendly $8.6m in 2023...or we could extend him a little and save some cap space this season.... if we leave hunter's deal alone and do everything else we'll be between $12m - $22m under the 2022 cap...depending on smith and thielen.... we still need players.... I think Thielen would give us a home state salary cut. Maybe 25%. How often does that happen? If he goes down to a salary that is equal or slightly greater than what he could get on open market. Not having to be away from his family in another city or moving them all to another city. Level headed guy who is set for life already. Injuries and age would prevent other teams from giving him a big offer. You don't know his financial aspirations or goals. No. I don't. But, I'm not suggesting minimum vet offer. 12M down to 8-9M isn't going to put him in the poor house. Yeah, nobody is suggesting a vet min offer. That's very unreasonable. He's just one of several aged players not living up to their bloated contracts. There are probably more that have established some degree of roots in Minny. NFL contracts are more complicated than just lowering the salary...all parties would have to agree to a contract rebuild and even if he did lower his salary from $12m to $9m he would still have a minimum cap hit of $6.8m in 2023 - which exists in his present deal.... the only clean way to deal with it is to let him go now, absorb his $11.1m dead cap hit, and negotiate from there...that would mean an offer to thielen of just $6m would bring his cap hit up to its current level of $16.8m for 2022.... so, a two-year deal at $10m fully guaranteed could be $4m in '22, and $6m in '23...would he take $10m total, guaranteed, to stay with the vikings two more years?.... could we trade thielen and his $12m 2022 salary for a 3rd or 4th round pick?...i doubt it because it has a $13m salary in 2023, which probably makes it a one-year rental.... the vikings are $15m over the cap in 2022, but 'right now' we're $73m under the cap in 2023...we could let thielen and smith go today and absorb the cap hit, and then renegotiate a reasonable two-year deal with each that is backloaded in 2023...nothing big, i'm talking $4m/'22 and $6m/'23 for each, fully guaranteed...they retire as vikings in early 2024.... so 'right now' we're $73m under the cap in 2023, but all we have is kellen mond at quarterback, depending on what we do in the 2022 draft.... also, if we let pierce and ham go this offseason we'll add another $15m to that surplus, and whatever we can save with thielen and smilth, which could be considerable depending on how that works out.... I wonder what Adofo-Mensah position is on fullbacks being on the roster he won't pay $3.5m/yr for one...I'm recommending that we use Bradbury....

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/30/2022 9:02:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . . who would you rather cut, harrison smith or adam thielen?...or both? - each move would save the team $6m in cap space...which one is easier to replace?.... if the vikings are going to go for the gold in 2022 we have to keep both cousins, and hunter.... we are going to cut pierce and ham and save $8m there.... restructure kendricks and save $4m.... i think we should restructure cousins by adding a couple of ghost years onto his existing deal and lower his 2022 cap hit by about $15m...he would still be a free agent after 2022.... we could keep hunter's deal just the way it is...two years left at about $17.3m/yr...2022 cap hit on the high side at $26m, but a very cap-friendly $8.6m in 2023...or we could extend him a little and save some cap space this season.... if we leave hunter's deal alone and do everything else we'll be between $12m - $22m under the 2022 cap...depending on smith and thielen.... we still need players.... I think Thielen would give us a home state salary cut. Maybe 25%. How often does that happen? If he goes down to a salary that is equal or slightly greater than what he could get on open market. Not having to be away from his family in another city or moving them all to another city. Level headed guy who is set for life already. Injuries and age would prevent other teams from giving him a big offer. You don't know his financial aspirations or goals. No. I don't. But, I'm not suggesting minimum vet offer. 12M down to 8-9M isn't going to put him in the poor house. Yeah, nobody is suggesting a vet min offer. That's very unreasonable. He's just one of several aged players not living up to their bloated contracts. There are probably more that have established some degree of roots in Minny. NFL contracts are more complicated than just lowering the salary...all parties would have to agree to a contract rebuild and even if he did lower his salary from $12m to $9m he would still have a minimum cap hit of $6.8m in 2023 - which exists in his present deal.... the only clean way to deal with it is to let him go now, absorb his $11.1m dead cap hit, and negotiate from there...that would mean an offer to thielen of just $6m would bring his cap hit up to its current level of $16.8m for 2022.... so, a two-year deal at $10m fully guaranteed could be $4m in '22, and $6m in '23...would he take $10m total, guaranteed, to stay with the vikings two more years?.... could we trade thielen and his $12m 2022 salary for a 3rd or 4th round pick?...i doubt it because it has a $13m salary in 2023, which probably makes it a one-year rental.... the vikings are $15m over the cap in 2022, but 'right now' we're $73m under the cap in 2023...we could let thielen and smith go today and absorb the cap hit, and then renegotiate a reasonable two-year deal with each that is backloaded in 2023...nothing big, i'm talking $4m/'22 and $6m/'23 for each, fully guaranteed...they retire as vikings in early 2024.... so 'right now' we're $73m under the cap in 2023, but all we have is kellen mond at quarterback, depending on what we do in the 2022 draft.... also, if we let pierce and ham go this offseason we'll add another $15m to that surplus, and whatever we can save with thielen and smilth, which could be considerable depending on how that works out.... I wonder what Adofo-Mensah position is on fullbacks being on the roster Hopefully it is the same as whatever coach he hires' position on tight ends. It's not the GM's job to determine x's and o's preferences. It's the job of the coach to place a value, and the GM to go out and address it.

Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/30/2022 10:37:40 AM)
I think Harbaugh could get more out of Cousins. Just beefing up the defense with maybe one draft or FA starter added to the OL and I could see getting 1 of the top 2 seeds next year.

ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/30/2022 11:04:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M I think Harbaugh could get more out of Cousins. Just beefing up the defense with maybe one draft or FA starter added to the OL and I could see getting 1 of the top 2 seeds next year. Zimmer hated QBs that changed plays. I think Harbaugh would hate it when the defense showed something and Cousins didn’t audible. Plus if Brady retires and Rodgers goes to AFC Cousins becomes arguably the second best QB in NFC behind Wilson.

Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/30/2022 11:07:36 AM)
That's what I see, Ron. If Cousins can yes man it to checkdowns he can yes man it to push the ball down the field more.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/30/2022 3:22:07 PM)
If cousins becomes the 2nd or even 3rd or 4th best QB it bolsters the argument to keep him and also bolsters the argument to trade him. If he’s that good we should get plenty in return.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/31/2022 6:49:27 AM)
Lots of positivity floating around Twitter about our boy, Kirk! Erin Henderson @that1guyerin · 11h I say Kirk better than Jimmy G and Stafford and yall talking to me about Joey B. Yall not my kinda weird at all

Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/31/2022 7:41:25 AM)
I admit to wanting to believe. Redo Kirk for 5 years in whatever non cap wrecking way we can, get the right HC and see us in a couple SB's over the next 5 years...with at least 1 ring. Give Kirk giant escalators for SB appearances and wins to earn 30+.

The Happy Norseman -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/31/2022 8:28:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Lots of positivity floating around Twitter about our boy, Kirk! Erin Henderson @that1guyerin · 11h I say Kirk better than Jimmy G and Stafford and yall talking to me about Joey B. Yall not my kinda weird at all Stafford is better than Cousins and it's not close. This year Stafford was ranked 4th in the NFL by QBR. Kirk was ranked 14th. For his career Stafford owns 34 fourth-quarter comebacks and 42 game winning drives. Kirk has 14 and 20. And most of Stafford's came when he played for the Lions who only once in their career had a RB rush for over 1000 yards. Kirk is (probably) a top 10 QB, but he is not nearly as good as Matthew Stafford.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/31/2022 9:04:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M I think Harbaugh could get more out of Cousins. Why? He hasn't produced an NFL-ready quarterbacks in the college ranks in recent years, so what makes you think he can produce one in the professional ranks?

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/31/2022 9:07:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Lots of positivity floating around Twitter about our boy, Kirk! Erin Henderson @that1guyerin · 11h I say Kirk better than Jimmy G and Stafford and yall talking to me about Joey B. Yall not my kinda weird at all It Twitter.. not a place I go for anything but laughs.. I have an account on Twitter but no app for Twitter.. I tried using Twitter I gain support for my case to get my daughter out of foster care.. a real issue that effects a real family.. I might as well have pissed into the wind.. Two posters from here cared enough to try and help, and if they want thier contributions back, thy can pm me and I’ll take care of it. Otherwise Nothing said on Twitter carries ant weight.. it’s a social credit farm filled with people trying to “ get famous”, get rich, or share idiotic information, as “ facts “ or “ truth”.. I don’t post their, I don’t post on FB either.. I read for entertainment on social media, including the subs I follow on Reddit.. Twitter has ruined the validity of almost everything it touches It is a stupidity contagion social virus on the order of an STD. JMO

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/31/2022 9:13:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Lots of positivity floating around Twitter about our boy, Kirk! Erin Henderson @that1guyerin · 11h I say Kirk better than Jimmy G and Stafford and yall talking to me about Joey B. Yall not my kinda weird at all Stafford is better than Cousins and it's not close. This year Stafford was ranked 4th in the NFL by QBR. Kirk was ranked 14th. For his career Stafford owns 34 fourth-quarter comebacks and 42 game winning drives. Kirk has 14 and 20. And most of Stafford's came when he played for the Lions who only once in their career had a RB rush for over 1000 yards. Kirk is (probably) a top 10 QB, but he is not nearly as good as Matthew Stafford. Stafford has basically had the same line as Cousins for 13 years without the running game and receivers (Megatron aside). I'd take Stafford over Cousins every day of the week and most importantly twice on Sunday's.

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/31/2022 9:31:34 AM)
I hope Stafford gets his Ring.. I’m torn.. I want the Lions to realize what a great talent they wasted, but I really don’t want the rams winning another Super Bowl.. I favor Cincinnati and it a tough call.. But I think Stafford deserves his ring.. He helped carry that team..

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/31/2022 10:27:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Lots of positivity floating around Twitter about our boy, Kirk! Erin Henderson @that1guyerin · 11h I say Kirk better than Jimmy G and Stafford and yall talking to me about Joey B. Yall not my kinda weird at all There's a lot of Horse Medicine for Humans positivity out there too.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/31/2022 10:38:37 AM)
I still think Kirk was about 10th or lower on the list for problems for the Vikings. Mahomes made a ton of mistakes in the AFC championship game but how many were coaching decisions? Players can still put up stats but the coaching in the 2nd half is what lost the game for KC.

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/31/2022 10:40:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young I hope Stafford gets his Ring.. I’m torn.. I want the Lions to realize what a great talent they wasted, but I really don’t want the rams winning another Super Bowl.. I favor Cincinnati and it a tough call.. But I think Stafford deserves his ring.. He helped carry that team.. After 13 years with the Lions, I don't know if any NFL player has paid his dues more than Stafford. I hope he gets his ring.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/31/2022 10:44:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Lots of positivity floating around Twitter about our boy, Kirk! Erin Henderson @that1guyerin · 11h I say Kirk better than Jimmy G and Stafford and yall talking to me about Joey B. Yall not my kinda weird at all Stafford is better than Cousins and it's not close. This year Stafford was ranked 4th in the NFL by QBR. Kirk was ranked 14th. For his career Stafford owns 34 fourth-quarter comebacks and 42 game winning drives. Kirk has 14 and 20. And most of Stafford's came when he played for the Lions who only once in their career had a RB rush for over 1000 yards. Kirk is (probably) a top 10 QB, but he is not nearly as good as Matthew Stafford. Stafford has basically had the same line as Cousins for 13 years without the running game and receivers (Megatron aside). I'd take Stafford over Cousins every day of the week and most importantly twice on Sunday's. So you think Washington had a great team those years Kirk was there? You think the Vikings have had a great team in his years here? Stafford has been in the league 12 years vs 10 for Kirk. Stafford starter for 10, Kirk 7. I think it is a lot closer then you think: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StafMa00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CousKi00.htm

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/31/2022 10:46:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Lots of positivity floating around Twitter about our boy, Kirk! Erin Henderson @that1guyerin · 11h I say Kirk better than Jimmy G and Stafford and yall talking to me about Joey B. Yall not my kinda weird at all Stafford is better than Cousins and it's not close. This year Stafford was ranked 4th in the NFL by QBR. Kirk was ranked 14th. For his career Stafford owns 34 fourth-quarter comebacks and 42 game winning drives. Kirk has 14 and 20. And most of Stafford's came when he played for the Lions who only once in their career had a RB rush for over 1000 yards. Kirk is (probably) a top 10 QB, but he is not nearly as good as Matthew Stafford. Stafford has basically had the same line as Cousins for 13 years without the running game and receivers (Megatron aside). I'd take Stafford over Cousins every day of the week and most importantly twice on Sunday's. For sure. I would not put Stafford in the upper echelon of QBs but definitely in the next tier down. He may move up with a few more seasons with the Rams. Much more of a gamer. Stafford is like number 5 for career 4th qtr comebacks, Cousins is like 76. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_career.htm That's number 5 all time with all but 1 season with the freakin' Lions. No contest.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/31/2022 10:59:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Lots of positivity floating around Twitter about our boy, Kirk! Erin Henderson @that1guyerin · 11h I say Kirk better than Jimmy G and Stafford and yall talking to me about Joey B. Yall not my kinda weird at all Stafford is better than Cousins and it's not close. This year Stafford was ranked 4th in the NFL by QBR. Kirk was ranked 14th. For his career Stafford owns 34 fourth-quarter comebacks and 42 game winning drives. Kirk has 14 and 20. And most of Stafford's came when he played for the Lions who only once in their career had a RB rush for over 1000 yards. Kirk is (probably) a top 10 QB, but he is not nearly as good as Matthew Stafford. Stafford has basically had the same line as Cousins for 13 years without the running game and receivers (Megatron aside). I'd take Stafford over Cousins every day of the week and most importantly twice on Sunday's. For sure. I would not put Stafford in the upper echelon of QBs but definitely in the next tier down. He may move up with a few more seasons with the Rams. Much more of a gamer. Stafford is like number 5 for career 4th qtr comebacks, Cousins is like 76. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_career.htm That's number 5 all time with all but 1 season with the freakin' Lions. No contest. Cousins could have 4 more just this year; Stafford has started 3 more years too. (Give Kirk 4 more and he is tied with Rodgers FYI)..

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/31/2022 11:15:09 AM)
Oh, for Christ sake.. “give Kirk…” give my ass… Give AR 4 more CFBH wins.. and he is eight ahead… how does that sound? Cousins is not worth 45 million dollars, in any way.. Either he restructures that ass contract, or we eat it and dump him… I’m sick of him on a personal level.. Not gonna miss him..

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/31/2022 11:17:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young Oh, for Christ sake.. “give Kirk…” give my ass… Give AR 4 more CFBH wins.. and he is eight ahead… how does that sound? Cousins is not worth 45 million dollars, in any way.. Either he restructures that ass contract, or we eat it and dump him… I’m sick of him on a personal level.. Not gonna miss him.. He did restructure to help rebuild the defense and part of the reason Spielman and Zimmer were fired. They pushed cap forward with promise to improve the defense and it didn't happen. He should be at a 33-34 Cap Hit.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/31/2022 11:18:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Lots of positivity floating around Twitter about our boy, Kirk! Erin Henderson @that1guyerin · 11h I say Kirk better than Jimmy G and Stafford and yall talking to me about Joey B. Yall not my kinda weird at all Stafford is better than Cousins and it's not close. This year Stafford was ranked 4th in the NFL by QBR. Kirk was ranked 14th. For his career Stafford owns 34 fourth-quarter comebacks and 42 game winning drives. Kirk has 14 and 20. And most of Stafford's came when he played for the Lions who only once in their career had a RB rush for over 1000 yards. Kirk is (probably) a top 10 QB, but he is not nearly as good as Matthew Stafford. Stafford has basically had the same line as Cousins for 13 years without the running game and receivers (Megatron aside). I'd take Stafford over Cousins every day of the week and most importantly twice on Sunday's. For sure. I would not put Stafford in the upper echelon of QBs but definitely in the next tier down. He may move up with a few more seasons with the Rams. Much more of a gamer. Stafford is like number 5 for career 4th qtr comebacks, Cousins is like 76. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_career.htm That's number 5 all time with all but 1 season with the freakin' Lions. No contest. Cousins could have 4 more just this year; Stafford has started 3 more years too. (Give Kirk 4 more and he is tied with Rodgers FYI).. If you have to fantasize about giving Cousins 4 more comebacks this year, you have to do it for Stafford and Rogers as well. Or, find me a website - no matter how illegitimate - that ranks QBs by how many comebacks 'they could have had if other players didn't mess up'. Also ... Stafford 13 seasons - 34 comebacks / Cousins 10 seasons - 15 comebacks ... please extrapolate the numbers to show me how 3 more (or less) seasons evens it up between the two. Oh, while keeping in mind that Stafford has one more game this season.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/31/2022 11:22:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Lots of positivity floating around Twitter about our boy, Kirk! Erin Henderson @that1guyerin · 11h I say Kirk better than Jimmy G and Stafford and yall talking to me about Joey B. Yall not my kinda weird at all Stafford is better than Cousins and it's not close. This year Stafford was ranked 4th in the NFL by QBR. Kirk was ranked 14th. For his career Stafford owns 34 fourth-quarter comebacks and 42 game winning drives. Kirk has 14 and 20. And most of Stafford's came when he played for the Lions who only once in their career had a RB rush for over 1000 yards. Kirk is (probably) a top 10 QB, but he is not nearly as good as Matthew Stafford. Stafford has basically had the same line as Cousins for 13 years without the running game and receivers (Megatron aside). I'd take Stafford over Cousins every day of the week and most importantly twice on Sunday's. For sure. I would not put Stafford in the upper echelon of QBs but definitely in the next tier down. He may move up with a few more seasons with the Rams. Much more of a gamer. Stafford is like number 5 for career 4th qtr comebacks, Cousins is like 76. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_career.htm That's number 5 all time with all but 1 season with the freakin' Lions. No contest. Cousins could have 4 more just this year; Stafford has started 3 more years too. (Give Kirk 4 more and he is tied with Rodgers FYI).. If you have to fantasize about giving Cousins 4 more comebacks this year, you have to do it for Stafford and Rogers as well. Or, find me a website - no matter how illegitimate - that ranks QBs by how many comebacks 'they could have had if other players didn't mess up'. Also ... Stafford 13 seasons - 34 comebacks / Cousins 10 seasons - 15 comebacks ... please extrapolate the numbers to show me how 3 more (or less) seasons evens it up between the two. Oh, while keeping in mind that Stafford has one more game this season. Isn't a fantasy...you guys are throwing stats up against the wall. Look at the Defense Rank, Oline Rank, and amount of close losses you easily can attribute to the HC/Defense. A short missed kick and a fumble are a fantasy? That is 2 right there. So apples to apples you think the Vikings are as good as the Rams Coach, Def, and Offense (especially if you think it was Kirk). I see the Rams being better at Coaching, Def, and equal on offense...

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