RE: 2022 NFL draft (Full Version)

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The Happy Norseman -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 10:19:57 AM)

Cine is being interviewed on KFAN right now.




Phil Riewer -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 10:22:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

I’m intrigued by Cine … but it will take some luck for him to end up better than Hamilton.

After talking about the importance of first rd talent vs other rds, Kwesi sure jumped pretty hard to move in the direction of quantity over quality.

It smacks of somebody trying too hard to prove they deserve a spot at the table. The values of the trade are too close to call, why not just get good talent straight up at 12 or move down a little (like Spielman last year), pick up something extra and still get a solid first rd talent?

You don’t have to solve a complicated equation Kwes to prove your worth.

We’ll see how today goes … its very possible 34 could get us a prospect rated higher than our first (like cb Booth).

You never know, maybe we trade the extra third for a veteran and Kwesi proves himself to be diabolically clever.

Right now he just seems too smart for his own good.

Why will it take luck? Cine appears to have better physical attributes than Hamilton. Is it possible that Cine was simply underrated by some?

This will all boil down to who did the best job of evaluating talent .. draft sites, talkvikes fans or the Vikings. It is possible that Kwesi & co did a good job of evaluating the talent that would be available at 12, the end of the round, at the top and middle of the second and decided that there was more value in making the move and picking up a 4th pick in the top 77. We should know by this time next year.

C’mon. Hamilton was universally rated higher. Draft ranking means something or completely nothing. Choose.

Every pick is a gamble, Hamilton at 12 is a risk … but a much smaller risk than Cine at 30.

“What? you say. What do draftniks know … teams pour expertise and resources into it know better.” Yes, which is why Hamilton got drafted where he did and Cine got drafted where he did.

I hope Cine blows everybody away … he has a good chance to be the best talent at the position we’ve had since drafting Harry. Could be better … if we’re lucky.


So if they were targeting Cine and decided to draft him at 12....thoughts?

The board went into meltdown over the trade. It would have gone nuclear if we had drafted Cine over Hamilton with no compensation at all.


Mostly because the Draft Challenge I would assume. Do you still think it is the Hershel Walker trade?

The way Willis has falling it may work out to grab that draft capital we supposedly, questionably missed out on.




Brad H -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 10:26:54 AM)

Most of a great safeties in the NFL are 205-15 pounds. I have yet to see a site where Cine is measured over 199 pounds. They say he is a great hitter. At that weight he better be.




Phil Riewer -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 10:29:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Most of a great safeties in the NFL are 205-15 pounds. I have yet to see a site where Cine is measured over 199 pounds. They say he is a great hitter. At that weight he better be.


Didn't a lighter and smaller safety go to Cincy before us? Hill.




The Happy Norseman -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 10:34:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Most of a great safeties in the NFL are 205-15 pounds. I have yet to see a site where Cine is measured over 199 pounds. They say he is a great hitter. At that weight he better be.


Seems likely that an NFL weight program is going to put 10 lbs of muscle on the kid.




Chris Olson -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 10:38:28 AM)

so it feels like Seattle is the team to go after Willis...

Do you take #40 and #109 to give up #34? that is better than "fair value" on the chart and we don't have a 4th

Or do you demand #40 and #72, if they really love Willis

This time we could fleece someone who loves a certain QB

We are in a pretty good leverage spot, it seems




Phil Riewer -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 10:46:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

so it feels like Seattle is the team to go after Willis...

Do you take #40 and #109 to give up #34? that is better than "fair value" on the chart and we don't have a 4th

Or do you demand #40 and #72, if they really love Willis

This time we could fleece someone who loves a certain QB

We are in a pretty good leverage spot, it seems


I want both of Seattle's 2nds 40 & 41 give them our late 3rd.




Chris Olson -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 10:53:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

so it feels like Seattle is the team to go after Willis...

Do you take #40 and #109 to give up #34? that is better than "fair value" on the chart and we don't have a 4th

Or do you demand #40 and #72, if they really love Willis

This time we could fleece someone who loves a certain QB

We are in a pretty good leverage spot, it seems


I want both of Seattle's 2nds 40 & 41 give them our late 3rd.

Right?

Fleece 'em!!




Phil Riewer -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 10:57:05 AM)

If Willis is a first round talent it would still be cheap for Seattle.




David Levine -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 10:58:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Most of a great safeties in the NFL are 205-15 pounds. I have yet to see a site where Cine is measured over 199 pounds. They say he is a great hitter. At that weight he better be.


I'm guessing he'll continue to add mass to his 6'2.25 frame:

The Georgia safety added an impressive 15 pounds between his sophomore and junior seasons. That is huge for a player whose physicality is the calling card of his game. Cine is a violent downhill hitter who puts his entire being behind every tackle. His hits shook multiple players at 185 pounds. At 200 pounds, he hits with the equivalent force of a freight train colliding with a concrete barrier.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/lewis-cine-georgia-s-nfl-draft-scouting-report-2022/




David Levine -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 11:02:36 AM)

The Draft Network tends to give very balanced draft profiles. Not so much the "rah rah" of many other sites that make every prospect sound like a future HoFer:

--------------

Lewis Cine is a 3rd year Junior who has aligned as the single-high middle-field defender and has also aligned in split-safety looks. Lewis is a good athlete with good straight-line speed, agility, and range of motion. In the passing game, his versatility is his strongest attribute. He has moments of dropping down in the slot and playing in the overhang. He could afford to make more plays in the passing game and has left plays on the field, in this regard. In the run game, he is a violent, physical hitter. He comes downhill with authority and demonstrates physical toughness as a run defender. He aggressively runs the alley and shows up with physicality. He has been hit with targeting penalties in the past but has been better in this aspect in 2021. On passing downs, he may be best-suited playing as a linebacker in sub-packages where he can use his athleticism to blitz and affect the passer.

Ideal Role: Safety and core special teamer

Scheme Fit: Any defensive scheme

FILM EVALUATION

Written by Drae Harris

Games watched: Clemson (2021), Tennessee (2021), Alabama (2021), Arkansas (2021)

Best Game Studied: Clemson (2021)

Worst Game Studied: Arkansas (2021)

Football IQ: He displays sufficient-level IQ. Although he doesn’t make the calls on the backend, he plays the game with an instinctive understanding of run fits.

Tackling: He is a physical and violent tackler. He comes up hard in the run game and is an aggressive defender when he deciphers run. He has been one of the most productive tacklers on the team.

Versatility: He doesn’t have much positional versatility. He has aligned at safety and that’s where he should remain. Although he has played in the slot, as well.

Range: He has sufficient-level range. He can get to his landmark in zone against the pass. However, his sideline-to-sideline approach to the run game is phenomenal.

Ball Skills: He lacks good ball skills. He hasn’t been overly productive against the pass. He has been in position to make plays that have been left on the field.

Run defense: His proficiency as a run defender is his best attribute. He is aggressive and shows up to the ball-carrier with bad intentions. He is a good tackler in the open field, as well.

Functional Athleticism: He has good functional athleticism. He is athletic enough for the requirements of the position. He can cover in the slot for a few reps but this isn’t where he is best.

Competitive Toughness: He has very good competitive toughness. He is a striker in the run game and shows the physical aggression defensive coaches will love. He is a tone-setter with his football character.

Flexibility: He has good flexibility in his hips as a player in space. This is not a hindrance in any aspect of his skill set.

Special Teams: He projects as an outstanding special teamer. He will likely align in the core on coverage units. He will excel in this role due to his toughness and aggressive play demeanor.

SCOUT GRADES

TDN Consensus:
82.83/100 (Second Round Value)

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/lewis-cine




kgdabom -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 11:37:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Most of a great safeties in the NFL are 205-15 pounds. I have yet to see a site where Cine is measured over 199 pounds. They say he is a great hitter. At that weight he better be.

OMG he is 6 pounds under the ideal weight range before he has had NFL strength/weight training. He should get to 205 or 210 with ease.




kgdabom -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 11:37:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Most of a great safeties in the NFL are 205-15 pounds. I have yet to see a site where Cine is measured over 199 pounds. They say he is a great hitter. At that weight he better be.


Didn't a lighter and smaller safety go to Cincy before us? Hill.

Yes.




kgdabom -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 11:39:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

so it feels like Seattle is the team to go after Willis...

Do you take #40 and #109 to give up #34? that is better than "fair value" on the chart and we don't have a 4th

Or do you demand #40 and #72, if they really love Willis

This time we could fleece someone who loves a certain QB

We are in a pretty good leverage spot, it seems


I want both of Seattle's 2nds 40 & 41 give them our late 3rd.

I wouldn't do it for less, but Kwesi has already established how little he will accept to move down so I have no hope of getting that haul.




Tom Sykes -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 11:45:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

We should have gotten Detroit's 2nd and 3rd.

We did get Detroit's 2nd and 3rd round picks. The problem is we gave them our second which we should have kept.


How? Detroit was trading up to the pick behind us with the same capital. We now move up to the top of the 2nd and 3rd round and have 4 picks in the top 80 instead of 3.

What would you think if we drafted Cine at 12?

Its like promoting longer life expectancy rates as proof of advancement in modern medicine.

Uh no ... we are increasing the length of a person's life by tacking on few more sucky final few years. When and if I turn 75, tack on some extra years from my early 20s and then we'll talk.

We moved back 20 picks from 12 to 32 in rd one. That's losing 20 spots of first rd talent.
We moved up 12 picks from 46 to 34. That's gaining 12 spots of second rd. talent.
We gain a third rd pick, free and clear but ... that's a gain of a third rd talent.

Quality matters, not just quantity.




bstinger -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 11:48:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

Looking at it optimistically, at least Cine seems to be viewed as a legit playmaker. The grades are meaningless, but the write-ups indicate that he's a promising addition:

Yahoo Sports
Low-key this was one of our favorite picks of Round 1. Trading down felt like the play for the Vikings at 12, but we had no idea they’d be able to go this far down and get a top-20 talent in Cine. He’ll pair with Harrison Smith as one of the best safety duos in the NFL. Outstanding first selection for Kwesi Adofo-Mensah. Cine will start for a decade. Grade: A

Chad Reuter/NFL.com
I projected Cine to the Vikings in Round 2 of my seven-round mock draft, so I wasn't surprised when they traded down and selected him at No. 32 overall. He'll play right away because he's a big hitter who can cover. Cine's size and athleticism allowed him to stay with receivers and tight ends on crossing routes and downfield; he'll serve as a much-needed nickel defender for Minnesota. New GM Kwesi Adofo-Mensah got excellent value in his deal with the Lions -- he moved up 12 picks in Round 2, added an early third-round selection (No. 66 overall) and landed an impact player in Cine, all for 20 spots in Round 1.

Bleacher Report
As talented as Notre Dame’s Kyle Hamilton is, he’s not the same type of hitter Cine is. Nor does this year’s highest-drafted safety possess as much speed. Initially, Cine can join Harrison Smith, learn from the veteran and form the league’s most physical safety duo. The incoming defensive back will eventually replace Smith, who turned 33 in February. The Vikings can save $15.3 million by releasing the veteran with a June 1 designation next year, per Over The Cap. Grade: B

SI
Cine is an outstanding athlete with good size who could be a long-term replacement for Harrison Smith. He ran a 4.37 40-yard dash at the combine and led all safeties in the broad jump (11’1”). He’s a smart defender and sees the game well. Cine delivers some big hits in run support and is a reliable tackler in space with sideline-to-sideline range. Grade: B

Pete Prisco/CBS
They need a safety next to Harrison Smith and he's getting a little older. Cine is a good-looking player who will cover and hit you. He has the range you like in the back end. This is a good, solid pick. Grade: B+

Fox
There is some poetry to the first round of the draft both beginning and ending with a Georgia Bulldog, with Cine the appropriate capper as the last line of defense for the reigning national champions. For so long, the Vikings boasted one of the NFL's best free safeties in Harrison Smith, but age is catching up to the veteran. Cine catches up with opponents in a flash, and he brings the thunder as a hitter. Grade: B+

Sporting News
It’s fitting that the first round began and ended with national champion Georgia defensive players (five in all). The Vikings get an intimidating cleanup man next to venerable Harrison Smith who also showed he had the athleticism to make a lot more plays in coverage in the NFL. For the team moving down 20 spots, Kwesi Adofo-Mensah did well with his first pick as GM with a fine talent that fits a need and matches the value. Grade: A

PFN
With an enforcing type of play, Lewis Cine brings a similar identity to the Minnesota Vikings defense. Cine hits hard but is a sure tackler. He comes downhill in the run game very well and can play either safety position. Yet, allowing him to play free safety next to Harrison Smith will only elevate his game. Grade: A

Those comments are great and the opinions are more valued that Brad's or KG's.




TJSweens -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 11:53:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

I’m intrigued by Cine … but it will take some luck for him to end up better than Hamilton.

After talking about the importance of first rd talent vs other rds, Kwesi sure jumped pretty hard to move in the direction of quantity over quality.

It smacks of somebody trying too hard to prove they deserve a spot at the table. The values of the trade are too close to call, why not just get good talent straight up at 12 or move down a little (like Spielman last year), pick up something extra and still get a solid first rd talent?

You don’t have to solve a complicated equation Kwes to prove your worth.

We’ll see how today goes … its very possible 34 could get us a prospect rated higher than our first (like cb Booth).

You never know, maybe we trade the extra third for a veteran and Kwesi proves himself to be diabolically clever.

Right now he just seems too smart for his own good.

Why will it take luck? Cine appears to have better physical attributes than Hamilton. Is it possible that Cine was simply underrated by some?

This will all boil down to who did the best job of evaluating talent .. draft sites, talkvikes fans or the Vikings. It is possible that Kwesi & co did a good job of evaluating the talent that would be available at 12, the end of the round, at the top and middle of the second and decided that there was more value in making the move and picking up a 4th pick in the top 77. We should know by this time next year.

C’mon. Hamilton was universally rated higher. Draft ranking means something or completely nothing. Choose.

Every pick is a gamble, Hamilton at 12 is a risk … but a much smaller risk than Cine at 30.

“What? you say. What do draftniks know … teams pour expertise and resources into it know better.” Yes, which is why Hamilton got drafted where he did and Cine got drafted where he did.

I hope Cine blows everybody away … he has a good chance to be the best talent at the position we’ve had since drafting Harry. Could be better … if we’re lucky.

Or if Kwesi did his homework and was right.




Murph -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 11:57:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

I’m intrigued by Cine … but it will take some luck for him to end up better than Hamilton.

After talking about the importance of first rd talent vs other rds, Kwesi sure jumped pretty hard to move in the direction of quantity over quality.

It smacks of somebody trying too hard to prove they deserve a spot at the table. The values of the trade are too close to call, why not just get good talent straight up at 12 or move down a little (like Spielman last year), pick up something extra and still get a solid first rd talent?

You don’t have to solve a complicated equation Kwes to prove your worth.

We’ll see how today goes … its very possible 34 could get us a prospect rated higher than our first (like cb Booth).

You never know, maybe we trade the extra third for a veteran and Kwesi proves himself to be diabolically clever.

Right now he just seems too smart for his own good.

Why will it take luck? Cine appears to have better physical attributes than Hamilton. Is it possible that Cine was simply underrated by some?

This will all boil down to who did the best job of evaluating talent .. draft sites, talkvikes fans or the Vikings. It is possible that Kwesi & co did a good job of evaluating the talent that would be available at 12, the end of the round, at the top and middle of the second and decided that there was more value in making the move and picking up a 4th pick in the top 77. We should know by this time next year.

C’mon. Hamilton was universally rated higher. Draft ranking means something or completely nothing. Choose.

Every pick is a gamble, Hamilton at 12 is a risk … but a much smaller risk than Cine at 30.

“What? you say. What do draftniks know … teams pour expertise and resources into it know better.” Yes, which is why Hamilton got drafted where he did and Cine got drafted where he did.

I hope Cine blows everybody away … he has a good chance to be the best talent at the position we’ve had since drafting Harry. Could be better … if we’re lucky.

Or if Kwesi did his homework and was right.


He's not the only player we passed on, there were 19 other players we passed on after the trade.




bstinger -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 11:58:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Most of a great safeties in the NFL are 205-15 pounds. I have yet to see a site where Cine is measured over 199 pounds. They say he is a great hitter. At that weight he better be.


Seems likely that an NFL weight program is going to put 10 lbs of muscle on the kid.

[sm=nodding.gif]




bstinger -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 11:58:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Most of a great safeties in the NFL are 205-15 pounds. I have yet to see a site where Cine is measured over 199 pounds. They say he is a great hitter. At that weight he better be.

[&o]




Karl Juhnke -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 12:00:12 PM)

Letting the pick sink in a bit and learning more about Cine, I’m satisfied with it. I’m still undecided about the trade as a whole, but setting that aside for a moment and judging the 32nd pick alone on its merit, Cine is a good value there. He should be a solid addition to the team. Fast, physical player. Well schooled on the game, seems very mature and level headed.

Now we’ll have see how the rest of it plays out.




TJSweens -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 12:01:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

I’m intrigued by Cine … but it will take some luck for him to end up better than Hamilton.

After talking about the importance of first rd talent vs other rds, Kwesi sure jumped pretty hard to move in the direction of quantity over quality.

It smacks of somebody trying too hard to prove they deserve a spot at the table. The values of the trade are too close to call, why not just get good talent straight up at 12 or move down a little (like Spielman last year), pick up something extra and still get a solid first rd talent?

You don’t have to solve a complicated equation Kwes to prove your worth.

We’ll see how today goes … its very possible 34 could get us a prospect rated higher than our first (like cb Booth).

You never know, maybe we trade the extra third for a veteran and Kwesi proves himself to be diabolically clever.

Right now he just seems too smart for his own good.

Why will it take luck? Cine appears to have better physical attributes than Hamilton. Is it possible that Cine was simply underrated by some?

This will all boil down to who did the best job of evaluating talent .. draft sites, talkvikes fans or the Vikings. It is possible that Kwesi & co did a good job of evaluating the talent that would be available at 12, the end of the round, at the top and middle of the second and decided that there was more value in making the move and picking up a 4th pick in the top 77. We should know by this time next year.

C’mon. Hamilton was universally rated higher. Draft ranking means something or completely nothing. Choose.

Every pick is a gamble, Hamilton at 12 is a risk … but a much smaller risk than Cine at 30.

“What? you say. What do draftniks know … teams pour expertise and resources into it know better.” Yes, which is why Hamilton got drafted where he did and Cine got drafted where he did.

I hope Cine blows everybody away … he has a good chance to be the best talent at the position we’ve had since drafting Harry. Could be better … if we’re lucky.

Or if Kwesi did his homework and was right.


He's not the only player we passed on, there were 19 other players we passed on after the trade.

True. We also moved up to the second spot in the second round and added the second pick in the 3rd round.




Tom Sykes -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 12:01:10 PM)

Hopefully, Cine turns out to be who Kwesi thinks he is.

QB Willis, WR Watson, DT Jones ... maybe TE McBride ... would all be interesting, solid draftnik value at 34.

In theory, I would take either Booth or Gordon to start over Dantzler, Watson to push Osborne, McBride to push Smith.




ratoppenheimer -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 12:02:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

We should have gotten Detroit's 2nd and 3rd.

We did get Detroit's 2nd and 3rd round picks. The problem is we gave them our second which we should have kept.


How? Detroit was trading up to the pick behind us with the same capital. We now move up to the top of the 2nd and 3rd round and have 4 picks in the top 80 instead of 3.

What would you think if we drafted Cine at 12?

Its like promoting longer life expectancy rates as proof of advancement in modern medicine.

Uh no ... we are increasing the length of a person's life by tacking on few more sucky final few years. When and if I turn 75, tack on some extra years from my early 20s and then we'll talk.

We moved back 20 picks from 12 to 32 in rd one. That's losing 20 spots of first rd talent.
We moved up 12 picks from 46 to 34. That's gaining 12 spots of second rd. talent.
We gain a third rd pick, free and clear but ... that's a gain of a third rd talent.

Quality matters, not just quantity.



it was a bad deal, plain and simple...worse than any deal spielman has ever made....

i think that we all would have woken up this morning feeling much better if we had just stayed at #12 and drafted Williams....

cine seems okay, and I'm confident he'll do well...but Williams is a game-changer - cine is not....




Daniel Lee Young -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/29/2022 12:02:58 PM)

The real issue, for me is this..

We were sitting at 12, and Kwesi, thought the value of the deal was worth letting a division rival, not only fleece us 20 spots in the first round, but then they used the pick on a player that we are going to have to defend for 5 years minimum, and that player has a ton of NFL potential..

I didn’t want Williams so much, as I damn sure thought we could have gotten a really good player with day one start potential, at 12, without giving a divisional rival that luxury…

Not impressed with a “ trader Rick” move right out of the gate on day one of first day of GM draft responsibility…

20 ****ing spots.. with the leagues shittiest run defense..
MFer better be as good at run support as Antoine Winfield or Joey Browner or Robert Griffith..




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