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Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 7:19:05 AM)
It’s like Spielman was COVID and we’ve got some long haul symptoms. Going to need a personnel influx and transition from the big money vets. The “see what we’ve got” season. JC in the house….

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 7:21:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen It’s like Spielman was COVID and we’ve got some long haul symptoms. Going to need a personnel influx and transition from the big money vets. The “see what we’ve got” season. JC in the house…. Couldn't agree more! Start playing young guys and see what we have. Time to purge the roster as much as possible. High priced ineffective aging vets gotta go.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 7:22:28 AM)
Too many veterans on this team that only know how to do one thing well. Lose.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 7:33:58 AM)
The Vikings defense will get better; it is early and they were at Philly. On offense it was a struggle to get anyone outside of Jeffererson, Mundt, and Irv the ball last night which caused Cousins to force it to Jefferson and Irv at times.

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 7:35:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The Vikings defense will get better; it is early and they were at Philly. On offense it was a struggle to get anyone outside of Jeffererson, Mundt, and Irv the ball last night which caused Cousins to force it to Jefferson and Irv at times. I see no indication that this defense will get better.

Karl Juhnke -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 7:36:35 AM)
I said it before the game (though I have no written proof of it[&:]) that I wouldn’t be surprised if Philly came out and punched us in the mouth. Then the big test of this team will be how they react to that. Well they did punch us. And our reaction was we never really got up off the canvas. So we failed that test. Still I won’t overreact too much. They probably aren’t as good as they looked against GB or as bad as they looked against Philly. We can probably put away all the hyperbole for now and settle in to what was most likely all along: That this is probably a team whose ceiling is 10-ish wins and maybe fighting and scratching into the playoffs. Philly exposed a couple of things last night. Mainly, this offense cannot adequately counter a blitz. Copy cat alert. Once the secret is out the whole league takes notice. Either fix it or get used to more of the same. The other thing…at least in my opinion is, Dalvin Cook is a nice back but is no longer anything special. Shelf life is so short at RB. I’m not saying he isn’t still valuable and can’t still be productive, but he shouldn’t be featured. He a cog. One of several.

bstinger -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 7:37:14 AM)
I was in the clean house crowd and was disappointed to see them run most of it back but willing to give them a chance and will still give them more of a chance before I bury them. Dalvin, Harrison, Eric, Adam, Patrick (minus the blocked FG), all looked a step or two slow tonight. Kirk was disappointing as well, especially in the 2nd half when the rush was dialed up. I think we lost the battle of the LOS on both sides of the ball and it's pretty tough to win when that happens. Their skilled position players seemed better that ours too. We never really made things very difficult for Hurts. Not much rush or close coverage. He had lots of time to find wide open guys. A lot of work to do.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 7:46:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke I said it before the game (though I have no written proof of it[&:]) that I wouldn’t be surprised if Philly came out and punched us in the mouth. Then the big test of this team will be how they react to that. Well they did punch us. And our reaction was we never really got up off the canvas. So we failed that test. Still I won’t overreact too much. They probably aren’t as good as they looked against GB or as bad as they looked against Philly. We can probably put away all the hyperbole for now and settle in to what was most likely all along: That this is probably a team whose ceiling is 10-ish wins and maybe fighting and scratching into the playoffs. Philly exposed a couple of things last night. Mainly, this offense cannot adequately counter a blitz. Copy cat alert. Once the secret is out the whole league takes notice. Either fix it or get used to more of the same. The other thing…at least in my opinion is, Dalvin Cook is a nice back but is no longer anything special. Shelf life is so short at RB. I’m not saying he isn’t still valuable and can’t still be productive, but he shouldn’t be featured. He a cog. One of several. Agree with everything except the 10 wins part. It looks like we have bad personnel for a 3-4 defense and that won't change this year. Hard to win even 8 games with a defense this bad. Even week 1 the run defense was atrocious. Seems like a 7 win team as I'm sure they'll win a few that are unexpected.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 7:48:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The Vikings defense will get better; it is early and they were at Philly. On offense it was a struggle to get anyone outside of Jeffererson, Mundt, and Irv the ball last night which caused Cousins to force it to Jefferson and Irv at times. I see no indication that this defense will get better. The Eagles have an elite team; if we faced them in 6-8 games it would have been closer but I know Booth, Cine, Evans, and the rookie LB will be put into the game more as the season rolls on and will start making plays. It seemed like after the deep pass for a TD they just dropped back deep.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 7:51:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The Vikings defense will get better; it is early and they were at Philly. On offense it was a struggle to get anyone outside of Jeffererson, Mundt, and Irv the ball last night which caused Cousins to force it to Jefferson and Irv at times. I see no indication that this defense will get better. The Eagles have an elite team; if we faced them in 6-8 games it would have been closer but I know Booth, Cine, Evans, and the rookie LB will be put into the game more as the season rolls on and will start making plays. It seemed like after the deep pass for a TD they just dropped back deep. I don't think they're elite at all and we played that lame shell coverage before the deep pass. We must have thought that Hurts was physically incapable of throwing a football with how we lined up against him. I think he's solid but not even close to elite. They just happened to play 2 train wreck franchises to start the season and Detroit is playing better than us in recent history.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 7:52:02 AM)
PFF Grades are out! - Wright (P), 100. - Everyone on D and Cousins, 0. - Rest of offense, 14.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 7:54:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The Vikings defense will get better; it is early and they were at Philly. On offense it was a struggle to get anyone outside of Jeffererson, Mundt, and Irv the ball last night which caused Cousins to force it to Jefferson and Irv at times. I see no indication that this defense will get better. The Eagles have an elite team; if we faced them in 6-8 games it would have been closer but I know Booth, Cine, Evans, and the rookie LB will be put into the game more as the season rolls on and will start making plays. It seemed like after the deep pass for a TD they just dropped back deep. I don't think they're elite at all and we played that lame shell coverage before the deep pass. We must have thought that Hurts was physically incapable of throwing a football with how we lined up against him. I think he's solid but not even close to elite. They just happened to play 2 train wreck franchises to start the season and Detroit is playing better than us in recent history. He has no injury excuses so the fallback is the opponent is “elite”. We MADE them elite (for a game).

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 7:54:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The Vikings defense will get better; it is early and they were at Philly. On offense it was a struggle to get anyone outside of Jeffererson, Mundt, and Irv the ball last night which caused Cousins to force it to Jefferson and Irv at times. I see no indication that this defense will get better. The Eagles have an elite team; if we faced them in 6-8 games it would have been closer but I know Booth, Cine, Evans, and the rookie LB will be put into the game more as the season rolls on and will start making plays. It seemed like after the deep pass for a TD they just dropped back deep. I don't think they're elite at all and we played that lame shell coverage before the deep pass. We must have thought that Hurts was physically incapable of throwing a football with how we lined up against him. I think he's solid but not even close to elite. They just happened to play 2 train wreck franchises to start the season and Detroit is playing better than us in recent history. Evans/Peterson can't cover Watkins, Smith, or Brown .

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 7:56:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The Vikings defense will get better; it is early and they were at Philly. On offense it was a struggle to get anyone outside of Jeffererson, Mundt, and Irv the ball last night which caused Cousins to force it to Jefferson and Irv at times. I see no indication that this defense will get better. The Eagles have an elite team; if we faced them in 6-8 games it would have been closer but I know Booth, Cine, Evans, and the rookie LB will be put into the game more as the season rolls on and will start making plays. It seemed like after the deep pass for a TD they just dropped back deep. I don't think they're elite at all and we played that lame shell coverage before the deep pass. We must have thought that Hurts was physically incapable of throwing a football with how we lined up against him. I think he's solid but not even close to elite. They just happened to play 2 train wreck franchises to start the season and Detroit is playing better than us in recent history. Evans/Peterson can't cover Watkins, Smith, or Brown . I'm not disagreeing with you. But if that's our plan going forward fire up the draft thread because we're gonna get a high pick.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 8:01:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The Vikings defense will get better; it is early and they were at Philly. On offense it was a struggle to get anyone outside of Jeffererson, Mundt, and Irv the ball last night which caused Cousins to force it to Jefferson and Irv at times. I see no indication that this defense will get better. The Eagles have an elite team; if we faced them in 6-8 games it would have been closer but I know Booth, Cine, Evans, and the rookie LB will be put into the game more as the season rolls on and will start making plays. It seemed like after the deep pass for a TD they just dropped back deep. I don't think they're elite at all and we played that lame shell coverage before the deep pass. We must have thought that Hurts was physically incapable of throwing a football with how we lined up against him. I think he's solid but not even close to elite. They just happened to play 2 train wreck franchises to start the season and Detroit is playing better than us in recent history. He was no injury excuses so the fallback is the opponent is “elite”. We MADE them elite (for a game). They were a playoff team last year that added AJ Brown, Jordan Davis in the draft, and James Bradbury. They are Super Bowl contenders.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 8:02:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The Vikings defense will get better; it is early and they were at Philly. On offense it was a struggle to get anyone outside of Jeffererson, Mundt, and Irv the ball last night which caused Cousins to force it to Jefferson and Irv at times. I see no indication that this defense will get better. The Eagles have an elite team; if we faced them in 6-8 games it would have been closer but I know Booth, Cine, Evans, and the rookie LB will be put into the game more as the season rolls on and will start making plays. It seemed like after the deep pass for a TD they just dropped back deep. I don't think they're elite at all and we played that lame shell coverage before the deep pass. We must have thought that Hurts was physically incapable of throwing a football with how we lined up against him. I think he's solid but not even close to elite. They just happened to play 2 train wreck franchises to start the season and Detroit is playing better than us in recent history. Evans/Peterson can't cover Watkins, Smith, or Brown . I'm not disagreeing with you. But if that's our plan going forward fire up the draft thread because we're gonna get a high pick. Booth, Evans, Cine, and the rookie LB will improve the defense but it has been said that the defense is going to be a work in progress.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 8:04:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The Vikings defense will get better; it is early and they were at Philly. On offense it was a struggle to get anyone outside of Jeffererson, Mundt, and Irv the ball last night which caused Cousins to force it to Jefferson and Irv at times. I see no indication that this defense will get better. The Eagles have an elite team; if we faced them in 6-8 games it would have been closer but I know Booth, Cine, Evans, and the rookie LB will be put into the game more as the season rolls on and will start making plays. It seemed like after the deep pass for a TD they just dropped back deep. I don't think they're elite at all and we played that lame shell coverage before the deep pass. We must have thought that Hurts was physically incapable of throwing a football with how we lined up against him. I think he's solid but not even close to elite. They just happened to play 2 train wreck franchises to start the season and Detroit is playing better than us in recent history. He was no injury excuses so the fallback is the opponent is “elite”. We MADE them elite (for a game). They were a playoff team last year that added AJ Brown, Jordan Davis in the draft, and James Bradbury. They are Super Bowl contenders. Super Bowl contenders?? Well I guess it's possible in what looks like a weak NFC this year.

Murph -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 8:05:13 AM)
On the road in the playoffs against a top defense; I have zero confidence in our QB, defense or coaches. Except our punter. Our defense is plain bad with a bad coordinator. Our offense will look great against average to below average defenses, especially at home but against a better than average defense, especially on the road; we saw the result last night.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 8:10:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Murph On the road in the playoffs against a top defense; I have zero confidence in our QB, defense or coaches. Except our punter. Our defense is plain bad with a bad coordinator. Our offense will look great against average to below average defenses, especially at home but against a better than average defense, especially on the road; we saw the result last night. Agreed. Luckily Green Bay went full retard in game 1 and didn't continue to run. Luckily Rodgers threw a fit the whole game after the first offensive snap of his season. Loved beating them down but let's not kid ourselves. This defense is awful!

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 8:15:06 AM)
I had Philly winning 11 games and winning their division, which makes them a contender. Just don't call them elite Phil, and don't call them or their WRs great, they're just good.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 8:18:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marty I had Philly winning 11 games and winning their division, which makes them a contender. Just don't call them elite Phil, and don't call them or their WRs great, they're just good. AJ Brown is just good? Devante Smith is just good? Goeddert is just good? What are your thoughts on Hurts? What are your thoughts on OBJ? [&:] I saw preseason hype from many that the Eagles are a contender.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 8:19:16 AM)
Calling them elite after squeaking past the Lions and beating the worst primetime football team in the last 15 years is way premature imo. Will they win the division? Yeah I think so.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 8:19:22 AM)
Richard, I think you may be over-reacting a little bit, I still think this team will win 11 games. Just like people that thought JJ would win MVP and get 2000 yards, well teams adjust. KOC is a good HC, and I think he will adjust, and get the defense to be serviceable. Donatell worked with Fangio, so he must know the importance of being agressive, and must realize his mistake in this game. He will either get more aggressive, or will be fired mid-season.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 8:22:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marty Richard, I think you may be over-reacting a little bit, I still think this team will win 11 games. Just like people that thought JJ would win MVP and get 2000 yards, well teams adjust. KOC is a good HC, and I think he will adjust, and get the defense to be serviceable. Donatell worked with Fangio, so he must know the importance of being agressive, and must realize his mistake in this game. He will either get more aggressive, or will be fired mid-season. He made the same mistakes the entire game with no adjustments whatsoever. Sorry it's hard to feel optimistic about that.

JC2022 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2022 8:22:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer The Vikings defense will get better; it is early and they were at Philly. On offense it was a struggle to get anyone outside of Jeffererson, Mundt, and Irv the ball last night which caused Cousins to force it to Jefferson and Irv at times. I see no indication that this defense will get better. The Eagles have an elite team; if we faced them in 6-8 games it would have been closer but I know Booth, Cine, Evans, and the rookie LB will be put into the game more as the season rolls on and will start making plays. It seemed like after the deep pass for a TD they just dropped back deep. I don't think they're elite at all and we played that lame shell coverage before the deep pass. We must have thought that Hurts was physically incapable of throwing a football with how we lined up against him. I think he's solid but not even close to elite. They just happened to play 2 train wreck franchises to start the season and Detroit is playing better than us in recent history. Agreed In the 2nd half the Vikings D only really gave up one drive and that ended with the blocked punt. The problem with getting back into the game was Cousins panicking and throwing terrible passes. I love Cook but he didn't have any explosion last night. Even big guys were able to stay with him. Both defenses made halftime adjustments and that pretty much ended the scoring. Hurts, other than the one middle screen the RB tipped up into the air, avoided turnovers. He did not play great in the 2nd half and made some bad reads. Cousins would start to move the team but at the slightest pressure his accuracy went out the window. I don't think he even faced great pressure - just normal NFL pressure and he went to pieces. On the Vikes TD drive, the Eagles just sat back in a soft defense all the way down the field. But on the turnover drives, the DBs and even LBs played much tighter coverage

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