quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Can't believe you guys are still trying to parse the final play. How about we agree on this? The Giants outplayed the Vikings on that play.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Lost in all this was my original intent (not that anyone cares). The D is/was so shitty it didn't matter if KC made a great or dumb play there. If we score and leave around a minute on the clock does anyone think they don't, easily, march down and get a FG attempt off?

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ORIGINAL: beo

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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: David F.

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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: David F.

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ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

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ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

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ORIGINAL: marty

Yes, Kirk DID sabotage the 2022 season, by not getting a TD in either of his last 2 drives, and especially not really trying to convert the last 4th down pass.

The Vikings defensive coordinator made Kirk's job tough, and Kirk didn't rise to the occasion.

I don't want 'stability' at QB anymore, I want chance for greatness. And they should keep trying to draft that.

As shitty as that decision was (and it was very).....would it have mattered if he did? If they had 20 seconds on the clock and we kicked it out of the back of the endzone, how confident would you have been with us keeping them out of FG range?

Cousins literally did not have time to make a 'decision'.

Watch the play carefully. The pocket seemed normal for a split second, but quickly collapsed. There was a defender immediately up into Cousins on his left and another behind bearing down. He had less than 3 seconds. About 2.5. There are no 'check downs', no surveying the field, no weighing options in 2.5 seconds. He threw the ball as quickly as he could to the receiver in his line of sight. Because any completion (and hoping for some YAC) is better than getting sacked.

Now maybe you could argue a more agile QB could have avoided the pressure and bought a little more time. That's fair. But it would have taken an amazing play. A Minneapolis Miracle II.

Go back and watch kurt Warner's breakdown and if you don't take his word for it then so be it. 2.5 seconds is exactly the point where ESPN's Pass Block Win Rate (PBWR) threshold is. If the line holds for 2.5 seconds or more its a win. Less than 2.5 seconds its a loss. In other words, 2.5 seconds is what should be expected.

In regards to a more mobile QB - it would not have taken a miracle to avoid that pressure. A couple of steps and a pump fake would have done it.

Go back and watch Kurt the QB apologist Warner's breakdown and tell us where Cook and Osborne were on the play ...

Since Warner didn't cover that.

I know, 'why should I take some dumbass fan's opinion over Kurt Warner's' ... I get it.

But take a look. And be honest.

Alright I'm being serious here - what does this even mean? Warner DID cover where Osborne was on the play. He also said that was the correct read and throw. He also said Hockenson should never have even been in consideration once he chipped.

Am I missing something here?

No ... you are right. He goes into some detail about the route.

I had watched Warner's description of the play earlier, watched another web version several times and got confused.

My bad.

https://twitter.com/kurt13warner/status/1615019673908842498

I still think Warner seems to interpret the play as a Jefferson / Hockensen read option only. There were other options.

No. Within 2:20 in the video he says Hock was a no-go due to chipping and called a pass to JJ (I presume once he was in fact going to be doubled) "horrible".

Yes there were other options. Well, basically Osborn because he wouldn't throw to Theilen (implying the route design sucked). After re-watching, he never mentioned Cook. The 2023 Cook, ugh.

You're splitting hairs.

It may not have been the right read or option, the designed option, but Cousins saw the double team on Jefferson and dumped the ball to Hock. That's what happened. I am not saying it was the intended outcome from the get go or that Warner thought those were the two primary routes in the playcall ... in fact, he goes on and on about what he would have done differently / what should have happened ...

Warner says he 'completely understands why Kirk did what he did' and 'there were no other good options' (right after describing Osborne breaking inside off of Thielen's route).

Jefferson got bracketed - the pocket collapsed - Cousins went to his next read Hock. A very narrow perception of what was available on the field.

quote:

https://twitter.com/kurt13warner/status/1615019673908842498

From Warner's analysis (and I have a lot of respect for a QB who took 2 different teams to superbowls)
1) What a shitty play for 4th and 8 and your SEASON.
2) Kirk made a bad decision.

Right off the bat Kurt eliminates Thielen as the route has such a low chance of success.
Jefferson is put on the outside where the Giants have the best opportunity to take him out of the play.
Hock chips which takes him out of the play.
JESUS... talk about setting Kirk up for failure.

Warner very clearly states you should be peeking at JJ and if you don't like what you see you should be reading left to middle route of KJ.
Clearly he thinks Kirk threw the wrong option.

KOC and Kirk can hold hands in the blame taking... a terrible last play to a pretty amazing season.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU_G-l9IKg8

7:46: Crucial 3rd-and-1 for the Giants on their own 34-yard-line. Hand off left to Breida. Kendricks misses, Hunter catches a piece but can't hold on, H Smith comes in and can't stop him either. A few plays later we stop them on 3rd-and-7 with a sack. They punt to us. Giants are ahead 24-21. This is our opportunity to take charge.

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ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

JESUS... talk about setting Kirk up for failure.


TBH I'm not real impressed with KOC and his offense. He got this group of players to overachieve which is a great attribute for a HC. But clearly he wasn't the brains behind the operation for the LAR offense.

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

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ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

The whole series was a cluster ****…

That’s on KOC.

“KC had no time…”

That’s different from the entire season, how?

Stop excusing a mediocre QB..

Just stop.

I'm no Cousins bobo. He's OK but If they decided to go another direction at QB that'd be fine with me. But don't say he made a bad 'decision' on the last play. Because it's just wrong.

Actually you are wrong, assuming Curt Warner knows more than you. Watch Warner discuss the play in the link provided. Warner doesn't bash Cousins, but methodically discusses the play.

Warner said once Hock chipped the defender at the LOS and knowing JJ was bracketed, the right side was likely a no-go. He said Cousins should have done a quick peek to JJ then looked LEFT. He implies Cousins knew Hock was going to chip so is basically eliminated right away as an option (wonder if Hock screwed up?).

So in reality KFC screwed the pooch with a bad decision right from the get-go. Of course he turtled with the throw itself as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU_G-l9IKg8

7:46: Crucial 3rd-and-1 for the Giants on their own 34-yard-line. Hand off left to Breida. Kendricks misses, Hunter catches a piece but can't hold on, H Smith comes in and can't stop him either. A few plays later we stop them on 3rd-and-7 with a sack. They punt to us. Giants are ahead 24-21. This is our opportunity to take charge.

It was and we needed to score TD's on every drive but could only muster a FG. So much for the high powered offense.

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ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

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ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

The whole series was a cluster ****…

That’s on KOC.

“KC had no time…”

That’s different from the entire season, how?

Stop excusing a mediocre QB..

Just stop.

I'm no Cousins bobo. He's OK but If they decided to go another direction at QB that'd be fine with me. But don't say he made a bad 'decision' on the last play. Because it's just wrong.

Actually you are wrong, assuming Curt Warner knows more than you. Watch Warner discuss the play in the link provided. Warner doesn't bash Cousins, but methodically discusses the play.

Warner said once Hock chipped the defender at the LOS and knowing JJ was bracketed, the right side was likely a no-go. He said Cousins should have done a quick peek to JJ then looked LEFT. He implies Cousins knew Hock was going to chip so is basically eliminated right away as an option (wonder if Hock screwed up?).

So in reality KFC screwed the pooch with a bad decision right from the get-go. Of course he turtled with the throw itself as well.

Nothing to the left was an option, due to pressure. That’s my whole point. Warner does an excellent job of breaking down the patterns and coverage. But glosses over what position the QB is in at the time. He only makes brief mention of it, because he’s too caught up in what the reads should have been in theory. He freezes and rewinds multiple times, and every single time ignores the fact that Cousins had a defender FROM THE LEFT two feet away from him at full speed at the instant he threw the ball.

That effectively takes away the entire left side of the field, I don’t give a shit what patterns were going on there. So his only ‘options’ if you want to call it that are a doubled Jefferson or Hock who had chipped and didn’t even have time to get 8 yards down the field. Hock has shown good ability to gain extra yards and have a nose for the sticks, so it wasn’t entirely a surrender, but it was the slightly less bad of two (at most) bad options.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

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ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU_G-l9IKg8

7:46: Crucial 3rd-and-1 for the Giants on their own 34-yard-line. Hand off left to Breida. Kendricks misses, Hunter catches a piece but can't hold on, H Smith comes in and can't stop him either. A few plays later we stop them on 3rd-and-7 with a sack. They punt to us. Giants are ahead 24-21. This is our opportunity to take charge.

It was and we needed to score TD's on every drive but could only muster a FG. So much for the high powered offense.

This drive ended in a FG after the famous false start on 4th-and-1 which really super sucked. What gets ignored is that on the third-down-play just prior Cousins threw well short of the sticks - something that was happening A LOT in that game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

The whole series was a cluster ****…

That’s on KOC.

“KC had no time…”

That’s different from the entire season, how?

Stop excusing a mediocre QB..

Just stop.

I'm no Cousins bobo. He's OK but If they decided to go another direction at QB that'd be fine with me. But don't say he made a bad 'decision' on the last play. Because it's just wrong.

Actually you are wrong, assuming Curt Warner knows more than you. Watch Warner discuss the play in the link provided. Warner doesn't bash Cousins, but methodically discusses the play.

Warner said once Hock chipped the defender at the LOS and knowing JJ was bracketed, the right side was likely a no-go. He said Cousins should have done a quick peek to JJ then looked LEFT. He implies Cousins knew Hock was going to chip so is basically eliminated right away as an option (wonder if Hock screwed up?).

So in reality KFC screwed the pooch with a bad decision right from the get-go. Of course he turtled with the throw itself as well.

Nothing to the left was an option, due to pressure. That’s my whole point. Warner does an excellent job of breaking down the patterns and coverage. But glosses over what position the QB is in at the time. He only makes brief mention of it, because he’s too caught up in what the reads should have been in theory. He freezes and rewinds multiple times, and every single time ignores the fact that Cousins had a defender FROM THE LEFT two feet away from him at full speed at the instant he threw the ball.

That effectively takes away the entire left side of the field, I don’t give a shit what patterns were going on there. So his only ‘options’ if you want to call it that are a doubled Jefferson or Hock who had chipped and didn’t even have time to get 8 yards down the field. Hock has shown good ability to gain extra yards and have a nose for the sticks, so it wasn’t entirely a surrender, but it was the slightly less bad of two (at most) bad options.

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ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

We can g back and look at tape, or read the game day threads for the season..

KOC played too cute for his own good at least once a game..

Some times it worked, sometimes not.

The one irrefutably consistent offensive failure was holding the ball too long, then throwing a shittycheckdown short of the line to gain or even the line of scrimmage.

Kirk Stan’s can point fingers at any ****ing thing they want and defend his stats and season till the cows come home.

The fact is that his contract, his inability toread and process the routes on any given play in less than 4 seconds, and his all important completion percentage and robotic inability to change a play, makes him mediocre, at best.

We will win nothing with him as QB.
We will win nothing by sentimentality overpaying aged vets like cook, Thielen, Kendricks, et.Al, and the Donatello firing does not happen sooner rather than later.

We at
Re in dead cap hell and there is only one way out.

Cut or trade if possible those expensive contracts, especially with the defense,and start a full rebuild around obvious talent.

If I owned this team, I pull both Cousins and Donatello into the office with KAM and KOC and I pointedly, fire KC and Donatello, on the spot, eat the dead money, and tell the management to deal with it and build a winning culture and team.

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ORIGINAL: beo

I read somwhere by someone that Jayron Kearse was the "best" defensive draft pick the Vikings had since 2016.
I thought that was a ridiculous take!
And then I looked at the data... unbelievable how bare the defensive cupboard has become...

Some guys still have a chance to develop (Dantzler, Patrick Jones, Metellus).
Some guys have done ok elsewhere (Epps, Hughes).

But you COULD make a legitimate argument that Kearse outplayed everyone else this year...
What a sad indictment.
Not 1 star has emerged from this group (as of yet) in 6 years of drafts.

2022 1 Lewis Cine DB
2022 2 Andrew Booth CB
2022 3 Brian Asamoah LB
2022 4 Akayleb Evans DB
2022 5 Esezi Otomewo DT
2021 3 Chazz Surratt LB
2021 3 Patrick Jones II DL
2021 4 Camryn Bynum CB
2021 4 Janarius Robinson DE
2021 6 Jaylen Twyman DL
2020 1 Jeff Gladney CB
2020 3 Cameron Dantzler CB
2020 4 D.J. Wonnum DE
2020 4 James Lynch DT
2020 4 Troy Dye LB
2020 5 Harrison Hand CB
2020 6 Josh Metellus S
2020 7 Kenny Willekes DE
2020 7 Brian Cole II S
2019 5 Cameron Smith LB
2019 6 Armon Watts DT
2019 6 Marcus Epps S
2019 7 Kris Boyd CB
2018 1 Mike Hughes CB
2018 4 Jalyn Holmes DE
2018 6 Ade Aruna DE
2018 7 Devante Downs LB
2017 4 Jaleel Johnson DT
2017 4 Ben Gedeon ILB
2017 7 Ifeadi Odenigbo DL
2017 7 Elijah Lee LB
2017 7 Jack Tocho CB
2016 2 Mackensie Alexander CB
2016 5 Kentrell Brothers OLB
2016 7 Stephen Weatherly OLB
2016 7 Jayron Kearse