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Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 9:45:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes This Cousins talk is ridiculously pointless and frivolous. Cousins is the QB next year, for sure. I'll be surprised if he's not the QB here for the two years after that as well (on an extension). I could see them signing a cheap non-threatening reclamation project as a pure backup. Like a Darnold. 'We went 13-4! We know what we're doing! Third best team in our division come playoff time? Abject playoff failure? Donatell fired, problem solved!' What a shame. I just don't think this regime will shoot higher. Why not go full Jackie Chiles: "It's outrageous, egregious, preposterous!" [:D]

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 9:59:12 AM)
I didn't think there was a path to getting Lance (3rd round pick)...if that is accurate I am all in on moving Kirk. I don't like Wilson but draft picks and cap room can change my thought process also.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 10:25:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer I didn't think there was a path to getting Lance (3rd round pick)...if that is accurate I am all in on moving Kirk. I don't like Wilson but draft picks and cap room can change my thought process also. I'm not used to seeing you gushing over another teams player. That's Marty's world. I don't know what Marty looks like from the front, but from the back ... if you can imagine the Packers training facility on the hill ... https://www.dailynews.lk/sites/default/files/news/2016/07/12/z_p35-christinas.jpg IMO you tend to push back-ups into starter / demi-god status. I myself am infatuated with UDFAs. They break up the 12 month Christmas wait in half.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 10:27:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes This Cousins talk is ridiculously pointless and frivolous. Cousins is the QB next year, for sure. I'll be surprised if he's not the QB here for the two years after that as well (on an extension). I could see them signing a cheap non-threatening reclamation project as a pure backup. Like a Darnold. 'We went 13-4! We know what we're doing! Third best team in our division come playoff time? Abject playoff failure? Donatell fired, problem solved!' What a shame. I just don't think this regime will shoot higher. Why not go full Jackie Chiles: "It's outrageous, egregious, preposterous!" [:D] Classic.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 10:34:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer I didn't think there was a path to getting Lance (3rd round pick)...if that is accurate I am all in on moving Kirk. I don't like Wilson but draft picks and cap room can change my thought process also. I'm not used to seeing you gushing over another teams player. That's Marty's world. I don't know what Marty looks like from the front, but from the back ... if you can imagine the Packers training facility on the hill ... https://www.dailynews.lk/sites/default/files/news/2016/07/12/z_p35-christinas.jpg IMO you tend to push back-ups into starter / demi-god status. I myself am infatuated with UDFAs. They break up the 12 month Christmas wait in half. It is still taking a chance but I would rather take one on Lance than Wilson. I am more hopeful that they can be starter; it seems like demi-god status when you call them all trash.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 10:34:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer I didn't think there was a path to getting Lance (3rd round pick)...if that is accurate I am all in on moving Kirk. I don't like Wilson but draft picks and cap room can change my thought process also. I'm not used to seeing you gushing over another teams player. That's Marty's world. I don't know what Marty looks like from the front, but from the back ... if you can imagine the Packers training facility on the hill ... https://www.dailynews.lk/sites/default/files/news/2016/07/12/z_p35-christinas.jpg IMO you tend to push back-ups into starter / demi-god status. I myself am infatuated with UDFAs. They break up the 12 month Christmas wait in half. His source is probably just some guy posting on a .com site.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 11:01:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall Nobody is going to trade for Cousins in the first round. Miss out on a cheap rookie and blow up your cap. No way. Nobody thinks they are a “Kirk Cousins away from contender”. Rick Spielman is on line 1... Jets would do it. I thought Lance would cost more. Trade Cousins to the Jets for two seconds. Turn our third into Lance. Does Cousins want to play for the Jets?

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 11:09:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer I didn't think there was a path to getting Lance (3rd round pick)...if that is accurate I am all in on moving Kirk. I don't like Wilson but draft picks and cap room can change my thought process also. I'm not used to seeing you gushing over another teams player. That's Marty's world. I don't know what Marty looks like from the front, but from the back ... if you can imagine the Packers training facility on the hill ... https://www.dailynews.lk/sites/default/files/news/2016/07/12/z_p35-christinas.jpg IMO you tend to push back-ups into starter / demi-god status. I myself am infatuated with UDFAs. They break up the 12 month Christmas wait in half. It is still taking a chance but I would rather take one on Lance than Wilson. I am more hopeful that they can be starter; it seems like demi-god status when you call them all trash. That's a fair point. Although really, for me backup merely means backup. In fact, a lot of our starters are back-up caliber. But I wouldn't call them trash.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 11:22:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer I didn't think there was a path to getting Lance (3rd round pick)...if that is accurate I am all in on moving Kirk. I don't like Wilson but draft picks and cap room can change my thought process also. I'm not used to seeing you gushing over another teams player. That's Marty's world. I don't know what Marty looks like from the front, but from the back ... if you can imagine the Packers training facility on the hill ... https://www.dailynews.lk/sites/default/files/news/2016/07/12/z_p35-christinas.jpg IMO you tend to push back-ups into starter / demi-god status. I myself am infatuated with UDFAs. They break up the 12 month Christmas wait in half. It is still taking a chance but I would rather take one on Lance than Wilson. I am more hopeful that they can be starter; it seems like demi-god status when you call them all trash. That's a fair point. Although really, for me backup merely means backup. In fact, a lot of our starters are back-up caliber. But I wouldn't call them trash. Especially on the defense and it isn't you calling them trash but we put all our eggs in #2 WR, Safety, and LB. You can't pay Thielen 19 million for 3-6 million production...same for Kendricks, Hicks, and Smith. I see Dallas spending 50 Million on Dak and fielding a great defense and a Oline that works....what we are doing wrong has nothing to do with Kirk. Have to hope that Kwesi moves that needle. Same with KC---they make it work by not spending big money on LB, #1 & #2 WR, and Safety.

Pauldiercks1 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 12:08:14 PM)
It will be roasted but how about we keep Cousins for one more season. Purge high priced againg veterans for future draft picks if possible. Win 1 game next year and draft a top QB. Young quality passing QB's with excellent athletic ability and low cap numbers win superbowls. I'd rather have 1 win than 11. Cousins makes too much money and more so too money much against the cap to be a serious contender. We were more pretender this year even though it was an excellent season.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 12:30:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer I didn't think there was a path to getting Lance (3rd round pick)...if that is accurate I am all in on moving Kirk. I don't like Wilson but draft picks and cap room can change my thought process also. I'm not used to seeing you gushing over another teams player. That's Marty's world. I don't know what Marty looks like from the front, but from the back ... if you can imagine the Packers training facility on the hill ... https://www.dailynews.lk/sites/default/files/news/2016/07/12/z_p35-christinas.jpg IMO you tend to push back-ups into starter / demi-god status. I myself am infatuated with UDFAs. They break up the 12 month Christmas wait in half. It is still taking a chance but I would rather take one on Lance than Wilson. I am more hopeful that they can be starter; it seems like demi-god status when you call them all trash. That's a fair point. Although really, for me backup merely means backup. In fact, a lot of our starters are back-up caliber. But I wouldn't call them trash. Especially on the defense and it isn't you calling them trash but we put all our eggs in #2 WR, Safety, and LB. You can't pay Thielen 19 million for 3-6 million production...same for Kendricks, Hicks, and Smith. I see Dallas spending 50 Million on Dak and fielding a great defense and a Oline that works....what we are doing wrong has nothing to do with Kirk. Have to hope that Kwesi moves that needle. Same with KC---they make it work by not spending big money on LB, #1 & #2 WR, and Safety. Wild speculation at best. They are starting 2023 in the red and have some significant FAs to decide on. And using Mahomes in an example (WRs) that somehow translates to us is quite disingenuous. That is like all the posts that use NE with Brady in his prime. Or people saying Brady was a 6th rounder so it can be done! Yeah right.

drviking -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 12:37:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1 It will be roasted but how about we keep Cousins for one more season. Purge high priced againg veterans for future draft picks if possible. Win 1 game next year and draft a top QB. Young quality passing QB's with excellent athletic ability and low cap numbers win superbowls. I'd rather have 1 win than 11. Cousins makes too much money and more so too money much against the cap to be a serious contender. We were more pretender this year even though it was an excellent season. Last year was the time to do that Better late than never

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 12:42:20 PM)
Guess we'll get an inkling on Kwesi's philosophy once news on our first vet FA happens. Renegotiate = Cheaper band-aids. Cut = Well worn band-aids might finally start to be peeled off. I want to hear "We released, a valued member of the team and community for so many years, to give him a better opportunity to pursue blah blah..."

bstinger -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 12:46:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: drviking quote: ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1 It will be roasted but how about we keep Cousins for one more season. Purge high priced againg veterans for future draft picks if possible. Win 1 game next year and draft a top QB. Young quality passing QB's with excellent athletic ability and low cap numbers win superbowls. I'd rather have 1 win than 11. Cousins makes too much money and more so too money much against the cap to be a serious contender. We were more pretender this year even though it was an excellent season. Last year was the time to do that Better late than never Problem is, the offense with Kirk, JJ, and Hock are too good to win only 1 game unless the defense gets even worse.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 12:56:44 PM)
It's not looking good. With some of the incentives that hit for various players the Vikes are now about $21 million over the cap for 2023. I used Spotrac and overthecap for these numbers We currently have only 1 QB on the roster. Kirk0-Short-of-the-Chainz (36.250) WRs are Thielen (19.968), Jetts (4.175), KJ (2.819), Reagor (2.420), Nailor (0.915), and various nobodies RBs are Dalvin (14.101), Kene (1.128), Chandler (0.945) and FB Ham (3.800) TEs are TJ (9.392), Mundt (1.230), and Muse (0.870) OL are O'Neill (19.660), Darrisaw (3.640), Ezra (3.392), Reed (2.750), Ingram (1.363), Lowe (0.919) and the only listed center Josh Sokol (0.750) no kicker no long snapper Punter is Wright (0.872) DL are Hunter (13.320), ZSmith (16.990), H Phillips (6.833), Blacklock (1.694), Lynch (1.183), Wonnum (2.933), P Jones (1.382) and various nobodies on min LBs are Kendricks (11.430), Hicks (6.500), Asamoah (1.247), Vilain (0.876), and Kwenkew (0.870) Corners are Cam D (2.969), Booth (1.888), Bynum (1.119), Evans (1.060), and 2 nobodies on min Safeties are Smith (19.128), Mettulus (1.010) and Cine (2.612) We only have 3 million against dead cap. Cutting Thielen saves 6.4 or 13.4 if a post 6/1 Cutting H Smith saves 7.4 or 15.2 if post 6/1 Cutting ZSmith saves 13.7 regardless Cutting Cook saves 7.9 or 11 if post 6/1 Cutting Kendricks saves 9.5 regardless Cutting Hicks saves 5 regardless Cutting Ham saves 3 regardless It should be noted that any cuts need to be replaced (duh David) Also notable is that you can only do 2 post 6/1 cuts and part of the savings this year gets kicked into 2024 as dead cap Also notable that we only have 5 picks in the draft 1.28, 3.88, 4.118, 5.158, and 5.176. Good luck Kwesi!

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 1:08:35 PM)
Stone cold needs for the roster if no cuts are made: QB2, Center, 1 extra generic OL, Kicker, Long snapper, CB of some sort, backup safety. Roughly cost - $15 million we shop at Dollar General Assume cuts to Thielen, H Smith, Z Smith and Dalvin. We go from 21 million over to 29 under. Does 29 million buy the original stone cold needs PLUS WR2/WR3, a starting safety, a running back, and a whatever the hell position ZSmith was? Probably. Assuming we hit in the draft a starter and a couple capable backups. Talent-wise we probably don't drop too much either considering age and injuries have hindered all four of those guys cut.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 1:48:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer I didn't think there was a path to getting Lance (3rd round pick)...if that is accurate I am all in on moving Kirk. I don't like Wilson but draft picks and cap room can change my thought process also. I'm not used to seeing you gushing over another teams player. That's Marty's world. I don't know what Marty looks like from the front, but from the back ... if you can imagine the Packers training facility on the hill ... https://www.dailynews.lk/sites/default/files/news/2016/07/12/z_p35-christinas.jpg IMO you tend to push back-ups into starter / demi-god status. I myself am infatuated with UDFAs. They break up the 12 month Christmas wait in half. It is still taking a chance but I would rather take one on Lance than Wilson. I am more hopeful that they can be starter; it seems like demi-god status when you call them all trash. That's a fair point. Although really, for me backup merely means backup. In fact, a lot of our starters are back-up caliber. But I wouldn't call them trash. Especially on the defense and it isn't you calling them trash but we put all our eggs in #2 WR, Safety, and LB. You can't pay Thielen 19 million for 3-6 million production...same for Kendricks, Hicks, and Smith. I see Dallas spending 50 Million on Dak and fielding a great defense and a Oline that works....what we are doing wrong has nothing to do with Kirk. Have to hope that Kwesi moves that needle. Same with KC---they make it work by not spending big money on LB, #1 & #2 WR, and Safety. Wild speculation at best. They are starting 2023 in the red and have some significant FAs to decide on. And using Mahomes in an example (WRs) that somehow translates to us is quite disingenuous. That is like all the posts that use NE with Brady in his prime. Or people saying Brady was a 6th rounder so it can be done! Yeah right. Dak is a comparable salary and player (even 14-17 million over). Mahomes is no longer on his rookie deal and gets quite expensive next year. It is possible and I was using it as a fact to say Kirk's salary isn't a reason not to have a decent defense. Have to spend wiser/wisely.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 1:51:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Stone cold needs for the roster if no cuts are made: QB2, Center, 1 extra generic OL, Kicker, Long snapper, CB of some sort, backup safety. Roughly cost - $15 million we shop at Dollar General Assume cuts to Thielen, H Smith, Z Smith and Dalvin. We go from 21 million over to 29 under. Does 29 million buy the original stone cold needs PLUS WR2/WR3, a starting safety, a running back, and a whatever the hell position ZSmith was? Probably. Assuming we hit in the draft a starter and a couple capable backups. Talent-wise we probably don't drop too much either considering age and injuries have hindered all four of those guys cut. I would also add cutting the FB (Ham), extending TJ few million net gain, extending JJ few million net loss. I also think we keep Zed and cut Hicks.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 2:01:16 PM)
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet · 55m The #Vikings are interviewing Mike Pettine, the former #Packers DC and current assistant head coach, for their vacant DC job, source said. Brian Flores, the #Steelers senior defensive assistant and LBs coach, has his Minnesota interview tomorrow.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 2:01:41 PM)
Chris Tomasson @christomasson · 1h Vikings WR Justin Jefferson has been named NFL Offensive Player of the Year by the Pro Football Writers of America. Well deserved.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 2:40:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Chris Tomasson @christomasson · 1h Vikings WR Justin Jefferson has been named NFL Offensive Player of the Year by the Pro Football Writers of America. Well deserved. Cha-ching $$!

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 2:52:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Chris Tomasson @christomasson · 1h Vikings WR Justin Jefferson has been named NFL Offensive Player of the Year by the Pro Football Writers of America. Well deserved. He had 8 tds. Maybe I'm being picky but I would expect a bit more than that to get offensive player of the year. No doubt he had a great season.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 2:54:20 PM)
Because the cap charge for the current league year isn’t reduced until June, designating a player as a post-June 1 cut hasn’t been hugely advantageous for teams historically. Typically, by June, just about every notable free agent is off the board. However, this year is a bit of a different story – Jadeveon Clowney, Logan Ryan, Larry Warford, and other notable vets are still on the board. Free agent opportunities aside, releasing a player in the spring and designating him a post-June 1 cut can be mutually beneficial for a player and his team. It allows the player to hit the market when potential suitors still have cap room and are still looking to add free agents, and it allows the club to spread out the player’s cap charge without having to actually wait until June 1 to release him — waiting until that point could mean paying roster or workout bonuses in the interim. Additionally, even if the team doesn’t need that June cap space for free agency, it can come in handy for signing draft picks. If they are thinking of post June 1 cuts, it might be worth seeing who has any substantial 2023 roster bonuses or whatever category Brzez may have parked more millions.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 2:58:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Because the cap charge for the current league year isn’t reduced until June, designating a player as a post-June 1 cut hasn’t been hugely advantageous for teams historically. Typically, by June, just about every notable free agent is off the board. However, this year is a bit of a different story – Jadeveon Clowney, Logan Ryan, Larry Warford, and other notable vets are still on the board. Free agent opportunities aside, releasing a player in the spring and designating him a post-June 1 cut can be mutually beneficial for a player and his team. It allows the player to hit the market when potential suitors still have cap room and are still looking to add free agents, and it allows the club to spread out the player’s cap charge without having to actually wait until June 1 to release him — waiting until that point could mean paying roster or workout bonuses in the interim. Additionally, even if the team doesn’t need that June cap space for free agency, it can come in handy for signing draft picks. If they are thinking of post June 1 cuts, it might be worth seeing who has any substantial 2023 roster bonuses or whatever category Brzez may have parked more millions. When I was gathering the numbers I posted I used overthecap.com for the pre 6/1 and post 6/1 cut cap savings. The roster bonuses are listed on the site (1.5M for Thielen and 0.5M for HSmith). I assume they are including those in their cap savings.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/25/2023 2:59:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Stone cold needs for the roster if no cuts are made: QB2, Center, 1 extra generic OL, Kicker, Long snapper, CB of some sort, backup safety. Roughly cost - $15 million we shop at Dollar General Assume cuts to Thielen, H Smith, Z Smith and Dalvin. We go from 21 million over to 29 under. Does 29 million buy the original stone cold needs PLUS WR2/WR3, a starting safety, a running back, and a whatever the hell position ZSmith was? Probably. Assuming we hit in the draft a starter and a couple capable backups. Talent-wise we probably don't drop too much either considering age and injuries have hindered all four of those guys cut. Talent-wise, it's impossible to drop too much.

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