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Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 10:10:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall If Rodgers is traded away the NFC North has the most underwhelming collection of QB's outside the NFC South. I think the division is wide open if Rodgers leaves. I seriously doubt that equals "playoff run" by any of the teams but 9 wins will keep you in the mix all year. Are you content with winning a week division? I'm not. No, but it is what it is. If you think the Vikings are going to release/trade everybody on the roster and shoot for 0-17 to get Caleb Williams be prepared to be disappointed. After this season if they think Caleb Williams is the next Mahomes, I would have no issue trading away Jefferson and 3 or 4 future first round picks. I say this because I would trade 8-10 future first round picks for Patrick Mahomes. Mahomes has done fine without Hill. Kwesi will be judged by his next QB and if he doesn’t get aggressive and/or hit a home run I will be disappointed. Drafting whoever is available and living with it for 3 years would be “very Speilman”. The true elite QBs don’t need HOF WR. Manning Brady Mahomes seem to have done fine with WR that were barely average. They didn't have an elite TE or weapons either? Manning (Clark, Harrison), Brady (Gronk, Edelman), Mahomes (Kelce). You can trade away Jefferson who is 23 and ascending? You want to trade him on the other end of the curve like the Pack did as Devate is 30.

ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 10:56:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall If Rodgers is traded away the NFC North has the most underwhelming collection of QB's outside the NFC South. I think the division is wide open if Rodgers leaves. I seriously doubt that equals "playoff run" by any of the teams but 9 wins will keep you in the mix all year. Are you content with winning a week division? I'm not. No, but it is what it is. If you think the Vikings are going to release/trade everybody on the roster and shoot for 0-17 to get Caleb Williams be prepared to be disappointed. After this season if they think Caleb Williams is the next Mahomes, I would have no issue trading away Jefferson and 3 or 4 future first round picks. I say this because I would trade 8-10 future first round picks for Patrick Mahomes. Mahomes has done fine without Hill. Kwesi will be judged by his next QB and if he doesn’t get aggressive and/or hit a home run I will be disappointed. Drafting whoever is available and living with it for 3 years would be “very Speilman”. The true elite QBs don’t need HOF WR. Manning Brady Mahomes seem to have done fine with WR that were barely average. They didn't have an elite TE or weapons either? Manning (Clark, Harrison), Brady (Gronk, Edelman), Mahomes (Kelce). You can trade away Jefferson who is 23 and ascending? You want to trade him on the other end of the curve like the Pack did as Devate is 30. Yes, I would trade anything, multiple anything for Mahomes. Take me all of 1/2 second to decide. I would trade 10 future #1's for Mahomes.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 11:01:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Consider taking a flyer on Hendon Hooker. Had a late injury so he should drop, what, maybe a round? 4th rounder on one site. I don't know. SEC. 27 TD, 2 Int in 2022. 31 TD, 3 Int in 2021. This one isn't bad either: Kevin Seifert @SeifertESPN · 1m . @Jordan_Reid matches the Vikings with Stanford QB Tanner McKee as a possible developmental draft pick. With only 4 draft picks at the moment, it remains to be seen whether the Vikings can/will prioritize a QB. Of course he doesn't have the stats of Hendon Hooker.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 11:34:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall If Rodgers is traded away the NFC North has the most underwhelming collection of QB's outside the NFC South. I think the division is wide open if Rodgers leaves. I seriously doubt that equals "playoff run" by any of the teams but 9 wins will keep you in the mix all year. Are you content with winning a week division? I'm not. No, but it is what it is. If you think the Vikings are going to release/trade everybody on the roster and shoot for 0-17 to get Caleb Williams be prepared to be disappointed. After this season if they think Caleb Williams is the next Mahomes, I would have no issue trading away Jefferson and 3 or 4 future first round picks. I say this because I would trade 8-10 future first round picks for Patrick Mahomes. Mahomes has done fine without Hill. Kwesi will be judged by his next QB and if he doesn’t get aggressive and/or hit a home run I will be disappointed. Drafting whoever is available and living with it for 3 years would be “very Speilman”. The true elite QBs don’t need HOF WR. Manning Brady Mahomes seem to have done fine with WR that were barely average. They didn't have an elite TE or weapons either? Manning (Clark, Harrison), Brady (Gronk, Edelman), Mahomes (Kelce). You can trade away Jefferson who is 23 and ascending? You want to trade him on the other end of the curve like the Pack did as Devate is 30. Apples and oranges. The Packers weren't trying to trade way up for a QB.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 11:41:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall If Rodgers is traded away the NFC North has the most underwhelming collection of QB's outside the NFC South. I think the division is wide open if Rodgers leaves. I seriously doubt that equals "playoff run" by any of the teams but 9 wins will keep you in the mix all year. Are you content with winning a week division? I'm not. No, but it is what it is. If you think the Vikings are going to release/trade everybody on the roster and shoot for 0-17 to get Caleb Williams be prepared to be disappointed. After this season if they think Caleb Williams is the next Mahomes, I would have no issue trading away Jefferson and 3 or 4 future first round picks. I say this because I would trade 8-10 future first round picks for Patrick Mahomes. Mahomes has done fine without Hill. Kwesi will be judged by his next QB and if he doesn’t get aggressive and/or hit a home run I will be disappointed. Drafting whoever is available and living with it for 3 years would be “very Speilman”. The true elite QBs don’t need HOF WR. Manning Brady Mahomes seem to have done fine with WR that were barely average. You make it sound so easy. Who you got you'll bet everything you have on to be the next Mahomes? Is it Williams?

ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 11:53:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall If Rodgers is traded away the NFC North has the most underwhelming collection of QB's outside the NFC South. I think the division is wide open if Rodgers leaves. I seriously doubt that equals "playoff run" by any of the teams but 9 wins will keep you in the mix all year. Are you content with winning a week division? I'm not. No, but it is what it is. If you think the Vikings are going to release/trade everybody on the roster and shoot for 0-17 to get Caleb Williams be prepared to be disappointed. After this season if they think Caleb Williams is the next Mahomes, I would have no issue trading away Jefferson and 3 or 4 future first round picks. I say this because I would trade 8-10 future first round picks for Patrick Mahomes. Mahomes has done fine without Hill. Kwesi will be judged by his next QB and if he doesn’t get aggressive and/or hit a home run I will be disappointed. Drafting whoever is available and living with it for 3 years would be “very Speilman”. The true elite QBs don’t need HOF WR. Manning Brady Mahomes seem to have done fine with WR that were barely average. You make it sound so easy. Who you got you'll bet everything you have on to be the next Mahomes? Is it Williams? I don't know, I hope Kwesi does and he needs to be damn aggressive in doing whatever/whoever.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 11:56:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall If Rodgers is traded away the NFC North has the most underwhelming collection of QB's outside the NFC South. I think the division is wide open if Rodgers leaves. I seriously doubt that equals "playoff run" by any of the teams but 9 wins will keep you in the mix all year. Are you content with winning a week division? I'm not. No, but it is what it is. If you think the Vikings are going to release/trade everybody on the roster and shoot for 0-17 to get Caleb Williams be prepared to be disappointed. After this season if they think Caleb Williams is the next Mahomes, I would have no issue trading away Jefferson and 3 or 4 future first round picks. I say this because I would trade 8-10 future first round picks for Patrick Mahomes. Mahomes has done fine without Hill. Kwesi will be judged by his next QB and if he doesn’t get aggressive and/or hit a home run I will be disappointed. Drafting whoever is available and living with it for 3 years would be “very Speilman”. The true elite QBs don’t need HOF WR. Manning Brady Mahomes seem to have done fine with WR that were barely average. They didn't have an elite TE or weapons either? Manning (Clark, Harrison), Brady (Gronk, Edelman), Mahomes (Kelce). You can trade away Jefferson who is 23 and ascending? You want to trade him on the other end of the curve like the Pack did as Devate is 30. Apples and oranges. The Packers weren't trying to trade way up for a QB. I don't see Caleb as the next Mahomes. I would rather draft McKee or Bill's guy in the middle rounds.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 12:11:01 PM)
Poorly run scheme? Look at the 3 prior years in a 4-3. It is more players than scheme I think this past years' scheme was about as bad as it gets. There is a reason Donatell was fired in GB (circa 2005), after giving up a 4th and 26 in a playoff game. He is not aggressive. What saved Donatell a few times, was extra hours of film study from Patrick Peterson, or in the 1st 8 games, Zed bringing heat. Zimmer schemes were also outdated, and neither of these 2 schemes were known for deep playoff runs, or playoff runs because of strong defense. I think if a defensive coordinator brings in a good scheme, he can get the defense to move up 10 spots, even if the personnel isn't as good as last year (which wasn't all that great).

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 12:40:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall If Rodgers is traded away the NFC North has the most underwhelming collection of QB's outside the NFC South. I think the division is wide open if Rodgers leaves. I seriously doubt that equals "playoff run" by any of the teams but 9 wins will keep you in the mix all year. Are you content with winning a week division? I'm not. No, but it is what it is. If you think the Vikings are going to release/trade everybody on the roster and shoot for 0-17 to get Caleb Williams be prepared to be disappointed. After this season if they think Caleb Williams is the next Mahomes, I would have no issue trading away Jefferson and 3 or 4 future first round picks. I say this because I would trade 8-10 future first round picks for Patrick Mahomes. Mahomes has done fine without Hill. Kwesi will be judged by his next QB and if he doesn’t get aggressive and/or hit a home run I will be disappointed. Drafting whoever is available and living with it for 3 years would be “very Speilman”. The true elite QBs don’t need HOF WR. Manning Brady Mahomes seem to have done fine with WR that were barely average. They didn't have an elite TE or weapons either? Manning (Clark, Harrison), Brady (Gronk, Edelman), Mahomes (Kelce). You can trade away Jefferson who is 23 and ascending? You want to trade him on the other end of the curve like the Pack did as Devate is 30. Apples and oranges. The Packers weren't trying to trade way up for a QB. I don't see Caleb as the next Mahomes. I would rather draft McKee or Bill's guy in the middle rounds. The point was clearly stated that if the regime thinks Caleb is the next Mahomes then he wouldn't have a problem trading JJ and more to move up in the draft. Then another point was made that the packers example you made is immaterial as the two trades would end up being for entirely different purposes. The above valid statements have nothing to do with you thinking Caleb is not the next Mahomes, so why even say that?

ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 12:53:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall If Rodgers is traded away the NFC North has the most underwhelming collection of QB's outside the NFC South. I think the division is wide open if Rodgers leaves. I seriously doubt that equals "playoff run" by any of the teams but 9 wins will keep you in the mix all year. Are you content with winning a week division? I'm not. No, but it is what it is. If you think the Vikings are going to release/trade everybody on the roster and shoot for 0-17 to get Caleb Williams be prepared to be disappointed. After this season if they think Caleb Williams is the next Mahomes, I would have no issue trading away Jefferson and 3 or 4 future first round picks. I say this because I would trade 8-10 future first round picks for Patrick Mahomes. Mahomes has done fine without Hill. Kwesi will be judged by his next QB and if he doesn’t get aggressive and/or hit a home run I will be disappointed. Drafting whoever is available and living with it for 3 years would be “very Speilman”. The true elite QBs don’t need HOF WR. Manning Brady Mahomes seem to have done fine with WR that were barely average. They didn't have an elite TE or weapons either? Manning (Clark, Harrison), Brady (Gronk, Edelman), Mahomes (Kelce). You can trade away Jefferson who is 23 and ascending? You want to trade him on the other end of the curve like the Pack did as Devate is 30. Apples and oranges. The Packers weren't trying to trade way up for a QB. I don't see Caleb as the next Mahomes. I would rather draft McKee or Bill's guy in the middle rounds. The point was clearly stated that if the regime thinks Caleb is the next Mahomes then he wouldn't have a problem trading JJ and more to move up in the draft. Then another point was made that the packers example you made is immaterial as the two trades would end up being for entirely different purposes. The above valid statements have nothing to do with you thinking Caleb is not the next Mahomes, so why even say that? yes, that was my point. IF Kwesi thinks the next Mahomes is in the upcoming draft or 2024 draft he should get him, no matter what the cost is. IMO it's impossible to say "That's too much to give up for Mahomes".

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 1:50:41 PM)
re: IMO it's impossible to say "That's too much to give up for Mahomes". I will not disagree with that however ... ... what elite QB was ever drafted that one can say he was going to be as good as Mahomes ... or Brady, or Manning? - - you just can't do it!

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 2:15:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall If Rodgers is traded away the NFC North has the most underwhelming collection of QB's outside the NFC South. I think the division is wide open if Rodgers leaves. I seriously doubt that equals "playoff run" by any of the teams but 9 wins will keep you in the mix all year. Are you content with winning a week division? I'm not. No, but it is what it is. If you think the Vikings are going to release/trade everybody on the roster and shoot for 0-17 to get Caleb Williams be prepared to be disappointed. After this season if they think Caleb Williams is the next Mahomes, I would have no issue trading away Jefferson and 3 or 4 future first round picks. I say this because I would trade 8-10 future first round picks for Patrick Mahomes. Mahomes has done fine without Hill. Kwesi will be judged by his next QB and if he doesn’t get aggressive and/or hit a home run I will be disappointed. Drafting whoever is available and living with it for 3 years would be “very Speilman”. The true elite QBs don’t need HOF WR. Manning Brady Mahomes seem to have done fine with WR that were barely average. They didn't have an elite TE or weapons either? Manning (Clark, Harrison), Brady (Gronk, Edelman), Mahomes (Kelce). You can trade away Jefferson who is 23 and ascending? You want to trade him on the other end of the curve like the Pack did as Devate is 30. Apples and oranges. The Packers weren't trying to trade way up for a QB. I don't see Caleb as the next Mahomes. I would rather draft McKee or Bill's guy in the middle rounds. The point was clearly stated that if the regime thinks Caleb is the next Mahomes then he wouldn't have a problem trading JJ and more to move up in the draft. Then another point was made that the packers example you made is immaterial as the two trades would end up being for entirely different purposes. The above valid statements have nothing to do with you thinking Caleb is not the next Mahomes, so why even say that? yes, that was my point. IF Kwesi thinks the next Mahomes is in the upcoming draft or 2024 draft he should get him, no matter what the cost is. IMO it's impossible to say "That's too much to give up for Mahomes". A few words come to mind: Try. Act. Conviction. Spine. It's all hypothetical though unless there is a QB out there who projects to be a star. And I don't trust Kwesi's draft acumen so far.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 2:25:17 PM)
Elway, Manning, and Luck come to mind as sure-fire, consensus-type players destined to be stars. Most all the other ones were hyped but not to the extent of those three (and maybe a couple of others). Jeff George, clearly for his arm.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 2:29:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J re: IMO it's impossible to say "That's too much to give up for Mahomes". I will not disagree with that however ... ... what elite QB was ever drafted that one can say he was going to be as good as Mahomes ... or Brady, or Manning? - - you just can't do it! Ah crap, Manning was taking #1. I remember the discussion of "who goes first Manning or Leaf" at the time and it gets the best of me from time to time. Well maybe you can do it - my bad

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 2:30:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall If Rodgers is traded away the NFC North has the most underwhelming collection of QB's outside the NFC South. I think the division is wide open if Rodgers leaves. I seriously doubt that equals "playoff run" by any of the teams but 9 wins will keep you in the mix all year. Are you content with winning a week division? I'm not. No, but it is what it is. If you think the Vikings are going to release/trade everybody on the roster and shoot for 0-17 to get Caleb Williams be prepared to be disappointed. After this season if they think Caleb Williams is the next Mahomes, I would have no issue trading away Jefferson and 3 or 4 future first round picks. I say this because I would trade 8-10 future first round picks for Patrick Mahomes. Mahomes has done fine without Hill. Kwesi will be judged by his next QB and if he doesn’t get aggressive and/or hit a home run I will be disappointed. Drafting whoever is available and living with it for 3 years would be “very Speilman”. The true elite QBs don’t need HOF WR. Manning Brady Mahomes seem to have done fine with WR that were barely average. They didn't have an elite TE or weapons either? Manning (Clark, Harrison), Brady (Gronk, Edelman), Mahomes (Kelce). You can trade away Jefferson who is 23 and ascending? You want to trade him on the other end of the curve like the Pack did as Devate is 30. Apples and oranges. The Packers weren't trying to trade way up for a QB. I don't see Caleb as the next Mahomes. I would rather draft McKee or Bill's guy in the middle rounds. The point was clearly stated that if the regime thinks Caleb is the next Mahomes then he wouldn't have a problem trading JJ and more to move up in the draft. Then another point was made that the packers example you made is immaterial as the two trades would end up being for entirely different purposes. The above valid statements have nothing to do with you thinking Caleb is not the next Mahomes, so why even say that? Simply put; you don't trade an ascending star with reasoning that those 3 QBs didn't have a talented WR or TE. Apples and Oranges is calling any QB the next Mahomes. Do all you can to get a QB but keep JJeff and TJ who are young.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 2:33:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J re: IMO it's impossible to say "That's too much to give up for Mahomes". I will not disagree with that however ... ... what elite QB was ever drafted that one can say he was going to be as good as Mahomes ... or Brady, or Manning? - - you just can't do it! Ah crap, Manning was taking #1. I remember the discussion of "who goes first Manning or Leaf" at the time and it gets the best of me from time to time. Well maybe you can do it - my bad I do remember correctly Rogers waiting, often on camera, for his number to be called. A few mistakes were made there

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 2:38:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marty Poorly run scheme? Look at the 3 prior years in a 4-3. It is more players than scheme I think this past years' scheme was about as bad as it gets. There is a reason Donatell was fired in GB (circa 2005), after giving up a 4th and 26 in a playoff game. He is not aggressive. What saved Donatell a few times, was extra hours of film study from Patrick Peterson, or in the 1st 8 games, Zed bringing heat. Zimmer schemes were also outdated, and neither of these 2 schemes were known for deep playoff runs, or playoff runs because of strong defense. I think if a defensive coordinator brings in a good scheme, he can get the defense to move up 10 spots, even if the personnel isn't as good as last year (which wasn't all that great). Do you think your option puts us at a level of KC, Cincy, Philly, or SF (or even Buffalo and Dallas) in terms of Defense? I don't. That is where you have to get to with players. Our offense is at that level w/o trading away Kirk....if they can't achieve that player level (Prob a KC type with 5 rookies or Cincy FA) on defense then you trade away Kirk.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 2:52:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall If Rodgers is traded away the NFC North has the most underwhelming collection of QB's outside the NFC South. I think the division is wide open if Rodgers leaves. I seriously doubt that equals "playoff run" by any of the teams but 9 wins will keep you in the mix all year. Are you content with winning a week division? I'm not. No, but it is what it is. If you think the Vikings are going to release/trade everybody on the roster and shoot for 0-17 to get Caleb Williams be prepared to be disappointed. After this season if they think Caleb Williams is the next Mahomes, I would have no issue trading away Jefferson and 3 or 4 future first round picks. I say this because I would trade 8-10 future first round picks for Patrick Mahomes. Mahomes has done fine without Hill. Kwesi will be judged by his next QB and if he doesn’t get aggressive and/or hit a home run I will be disappointed. Drafting whoever is available and living with it for 3 years would be “very Speilman”. The true elite QBs don’t need HOF WR. Manning Brady Mahomes seem to have done fine with WR that were barely average. They didn't have an elite TE or weapons either? Manning (Clark, Harrison), Brady (Gronk, Edelman), Mahomes (Kelce). You can trade away Jefferson who is 23 and ascending? You want to trade him on the other end of the curve like the Pack did as Devate is 30. Apples and oranges. The Packers weren't trying to trade way up for a QB. I don't see Caleb as the next Mahomes. I would rather draft McKee or Bill's guy in the middle rounds. The point was clearly stated that if the regime thinks Caleb is the next Mahomes then he wouldn't have a problem trading JJ and more to move up in the draft. Then another point was made that the packers example you made is immaterial as the two trades would end up being for entirely different purposes. The above valid statements have nothing to do with you thinking Caleb is not the next Mahomes, so why even say that? Simply put; you don't trade an ascending star with reasoning that those 3 QBs didn't have a talented WR or TE. Apples and Oranges is calling any QB the next Mahomes. Do all you can to get a QB but keep JJeff and TJ who are young. I confidently presume there is more to anyone wanting Mahomes than who he throws to, like being in a bunch of AFCCGs and a couple of SBs, but you run with your loophole. Simply put, hell yeah I trade JJ. You did see he was using the word "If". As in ~ "If they think he is the next Mahomes". And he even capitalized it later, as in "IF". See the difference? Doing ALL YOU CAN involves giving up assets. There are no free lunches unless you have the #1 overall pick. TJ? Oh yeah, the generational player.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 2:58:42 PM)
TJ may be the #2 TE this year (86 Receptions/15# in the NFL). JJeff is also in the top 3 if not 2. Both young. Lets gut the team of the best young talent and keep the old guys and hire Pettine....trade JJeff for a guy that maybe, maybe if, maybe could be Mahomes in some realm. Almost like you guys want the team to just be horrendous....[:-] At least if we trade Kirk for Trey Lance we could get other assets.....I like your mid round QB better plus a couple others.

fmaltes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 3:06:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marty Poorly run scheme? Look at the 3 prior years in a 4-3. It is more players than scheme I think this past years' scheme was about as bad as it gets. There is a reason Donatell was fired in GB (circa 2005), after giving up a 4th and 26 in a playoff game. He is not aggressive. What saved Donatell a few times, was extra hours of film study from Patrick Peterson, or in the 1st 8 games, Zed bringing heat. Zimmer schemes were also outdated, and neither of these 2 schemes were known for deep playoff runs, or playoff runs because of strong defense. I think if a defensive coordinator brings in a good scheme, he can get the defense to move up 10 spots, even if the personnel isn't as good as last year (which wasn't all that great). No Way and totally wrong on Zimmer as a Defensive Coordinator.. From 2014-2019 Zimmer's defenses were top tier. The defenses were horrible 2020-22 as he started to feel the strike outs on defensive cornerback draft picks. There is a serious lack of talent on the defense, especially the lack of speed on the defense. If you don't use a cover two shell, the next option is man to man coverage. Can you imagine the number of guys that would be open, especially on deep routes if the vikings played man to man with the current line up? It really wouldnt be much better. I can see more blitzing creating some more positive plays to offset some of the big plays given up, but the Vikings have a serious talent/speed challenge that will not be easy to fix in the short term. I've put the historical points given up below: 2022-28th 2021-24th 2020-29th 2019-5th 2018-9th 2017-1st 2016-6th 2015-5th 2014-11th Zimmer is a great defensive mind and has always been a good defensive coordinator. He had shortcomings as a head coach but he is still respected in league circles.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 3:10:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fmaltes quote: ORIGINAL: marty Poorly run scheme? Look at the 3 prior years in a 4-3. It is more players than scheme I think this past years' scheme was about as bad as it gets. There is a reason Donatell was fired in GB (circa 2005), after giving up a 4th and 26 in a playoff game. He is not aggressive. What saved Donatell a few times, was extra hours of film study from Patrick Peterson, or in the 1st 8 games, Zed bringing heat. Zimmer schemes were also outdated, and neither of these 2 schemes were known for deep playoff runs, or playoff runs because of strong defense. I think if a defensive coordinator brings in a good scheme, he can get the defense to move up 10 spots, even if the personnel isn't as good as last year (which wasn't all that great). No Way and totally wrong on Zimmer as a Defensive Coordinator.. From 2014-2019 Zimmer's defenses were top tier. The defenses were horrible 2020-22 as he started to feel the strike outs on defensive cornerback draft picks. There is a serious lack of talent on the defense, especially the lack of speed on the defense. If you don't use a cover two shell, the next option is man to man coverage. Can you imagine the number of guys that would be open, especially on deep routes if the vikings played man to man with the current line up? It really wouldnt be much better. I can see more blitzing creating some more positive plays to offset some of the big plays given up, but the Vikings have a serious talent/speed challenge that will not be easy to fix in the short term. I've put the historical points given up below: 2022-28th 2021-24th 2020-29th 2019-5th 2018-9th 2017-1st 2016-6th 2015-5th 2014-11th Zimmer is a great defensive mind and has always been a good defensive coordinator. He had shortcomings as a head coach but he is still respected in league circles. If you could count on Booth, Dantzler, Cine, and Evans plus resign Shelley it would be a start but you still have to cut Hicks, Kendricks, Smith, and trade either ZED and/or Hunter. Then load up on D.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 3:18:05 PM)
If there is some QB out there in the near future who compares to Elway, Manning, or Luck as a sure-fire star and it takes trading JJ to do it, he's gone in a minute. I don't happen to know of such a QB, but one could be out there working to get to that status. You don't know what other assets we could get in a Cousins-Lance trade. Maybe none. Or we may have to fork over a pick or two to help convince them to take on Cousins' salary. You have seen SF's cap, right? Seven players command 60% of the cap, and that's without a QB AND Deebo Samuel. Then in 2024, Deebo will get $28 million. You way want to review their situation.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 3:20:56 PM)
If you could count on Booth, Dantzler, Cine, and Evans plus resign Shelley... I think the odds of all of them merely being consistently average is close to zero.

fmaltes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 3:34:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: fmaltes quote: ORIGINAL: marty Poorly run scheme? Look at the 3 prior years in a 4-3. It is more players than scheme I think this past years' scheme was about as bad as it gets. There is a reason Donatell was fired in GB (circa 2005), after giving up a 4th and 26 in a playoff game. He is not aggressive. What saved Donatell a few times, was extra hours of film study from Patrick Peterson, or in the 1st 8 games, Zed bringing heat. Zimmer schemes were also outdated, and neither of these 2 schemes were known for deep playoff runs, or playoff runs because of strong defense. I think if a defensive coordinator brings in a good scheme, he can get the defense to move up 10 spots, even if the personnel isn't as good as last year (which wasn't all that great). No Way and totally wrong on Zimmer as a Defensive Coordinator.. From 2014-2019 Zimmer's defenses were top tier. The defenses were horrible 2020-22 as he started to feel the strike outs on defensive cornerback draft picks. There is a serious lack of talent on the defense, especially the lack of speed on the defense. If you don't use a cover two shell, the next option is man to man coverage. Can you imagine the number of guys that would be open, especially on deep routes if the vikings played man to man with the current line up? It really wouldnt be much better. I can see more blitzing creating some more positive plays to offset some of the big plays given up, but the Vikings have a serious talent/speed challenge that will not be easy to fix in the short term. I've put the historical points given up below: 2022-28th 2021-24th 2020-29th 2019-5th 2018-9th 2017-1st 2016-6th 2015-5th 2014-11th Zimmer is a great defensive mind and has always been a good defensive coordinator. He had shortcomings as a head coach but he is still respected in league circles. If you could count on Booth, Dantzler, Cine, and Evans plus resign Shelley it would be a start but you still have to cut Hicks, Kendricks, Smith, and trade either ZED and/or Hunter. Then load up on D. You are right, the jury is still out on these youngsters, but we still need more even if all of these pan out to be a top-tier defense.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/6/2023 3:37:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall If Rodgers is traded away the NFC North has the most underwhelming collection of QB's outside the NFC South. I think the division is wide open if Rodgers leaves. I seriously doubt that equals "playoff run" by any of the teams but 9 wins will keep you in the mix all year. Are you content with winning a week division? I'm not. No, but it is what it is. If you think the Vikings are going to release/trade everybody on the roster and shoot for 0-17 to get Caleb Williams be prepared to be disappointed. After this season if they think Caleb Williams is the next Mahomes, I would have no issue trading away Jefferson and 3 or 4 future first round picks. I say this because I would trade 8-10 future first round picks for Patrick Mahomes. Mahomes has done fine without Hill. Kwesi will be judged by his next QB and if he doesn’t get aggressive and/or hit a home run I will be disappointed. Drafting whoever is available and living with it for 3 years would be “very Speilman”. The true elite QBs don’t need HOF WR. Manning Brady Mahomes seem to have done fine with WR that were barely average. They didn't have an elite TE or weapons either? Manning (Clark, Harrison), Brady (Gronk, Edelman), Mahomes (Kelce). You can trade away Jefferson who is 23 and ascending? You want to trade him on the other end of the curve like the Pack did as Devate is 30. Apples and oranges. The Packers weren't trying to trade way up for a QB. I don't see Caleb as the next Mahomes. I would rather draft McKee or Bill's guy in the middle rounds. The point was clearly stated that if the regime thinks Caleb is the next Mahomes then he wouldn't have a problem trading JJ and more to move up in the draft. Then another point was made that the packers example you made is immaterial as the two trades would end up being for entirely different purposes. The above valid statements have nothing to do with you thinking Caleb is not the next Mahomes, so why even say that? yes, that was my point. IF Kwesi thinks the next Mahomes is in the upcoming draft or 2024 draft he should get him, no matter what the cost is. IMO it's impossible to say "That's too much to give up for Mahomes". In 2017, the Chiefs gave up their First rd pick (#27 overall), their Third rd pick, as well as their 2018 First rd pick for Buffalo's first rd #10 pick. And drafted Mahomes. (Sound of cash register cha-chinging) That year, Chicago gave up their First rd (#3 overall), Third rd and 4th rd selections as well as a Third rd pick in 2018 to move up one spot and draft Trubisky at #2. [sound of Chinese balloon deflating] Both franchises knew without a doubt who they wanted, committed to it 'no matter what the cost,' and went for it. Although even after going all in, the Chiefs still had a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th rd pick that year. (The Bears still had a 2nd, two 4ths and a 5th) IMO given Kwesi's previous draft, the state of the team and its resources ... not sure I want us maneuvering around for a QB this year. As critical as I think it is to improve the position. [not taking a QB with our first or second [that we don't have] ... IMO ensures Cousins through a drafted QB incubationary period in 2024 ... which would be hard for me to stomach] If the regime likes a QB in the 15-25 range of the draft and he's still there at #23, please go for it. But trade up and augment our roster with a QB at #16 and a LB with the remaining pick in the 5th rd ... I don't think so. Depressing.

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