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Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 9:40:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
o'connell put the breaks on dobbs yesterday - that score should have been 38-13....

if dobbs can get us even one playoff win, we have to give him another season....

qb franchise tag: $32mm...transition tag: $28mm...for informational purposes only....

I hope we don't have to go down this road.

If he keeps playing well, 2yrs. $20M. Probably give him an opt out on 2nd year.



Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 9:43:44 AM)

If Dobbs clicks with a healthy JJ, we might have to up our ante to $20M per year.



Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 10:02:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
o'connell put the breaks on dobbs yesterday - that score should have been 38-13....

if dobbs can get us even one playoff win, we have to give him another season....

qb franchise tag: $32mm...transition tag: $28mm...for informational purposes only....

I hope we don't have to go down this road.

If he keeps playing well, 2yrs. $20M. Probably give him an opt out on 2nd year.


If he keeps playing this well, he'll have to realize that it has a lot to do with the coaching here. This is the right place for him.
His agent will claim he can do this anywhere but if he's smart, he will realize his best chance at success is in the right system. He was the definition of journeyman before arriving here.

Hopefully that will convince him to accept a "hometown" discount with hopes of future bigger contracts as his success continues with this coaching staff.

Just fantacizing. If Dobbs is smart he will realize that his greatest succes thusfar has been in this system with a coach that is coaching his ass off hand holding him through it all. But any agent in his ear will say it's your talent alone dude. we can make more money on the open market.



David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 10:09:07 AM)

In the last two games TJ Hockenson is averaging 11.28 yards per catch.



Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 10:29:47 AM)

The most frustrating play of the game:
-10 Yard Penalty
(9:23) T.Chandler right end for 29 yards, TOUCHDOWN NULLIFIED by Penalty.
PENALTY on MIN-B.O'Neill, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at NO 29 - No Play.
3rd & 1 at NO 29

Explosive play and Chandler was past O'Neil's guy already.



Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 10:32:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall
If Dobbs is the long term answer. I hope they low ball him, seriously. Somebody is going to come over the top and over pay for Dobbs and sell that to their fan base?
I think some teams bid against themselves.


Why would you lowball him? He has talent, is smart, and mobile (2nd in QB rushing yards this year). People comparing him to Case don't understand the difference. He has a better arm, is bigger, and faster, more athletic than Case.



drviking -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 10:37:10 AM)

FWIW, IMO

for smart and disciplined men, money is a pretty easily renewed resource.

i think Dobbs is likely in that description.

assuming he continues to impress, a reasonable contract would be warranted


there are plenty of journeyman type QBs available next year if we need a plan B

15-20 million (assuming continued success) or else grab one of the FA journeymen to plug and play

YMMV



drviking -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 10:40:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall
If Dobbs is the long term answer. I hope they low ball him, seriously. Somebody is going to come over the top and over pay for Dobbs and sell that to their fan base?
I think some teams bid against themselves.


Why would you lowball him? He has talent, is smart, and mobile (2nd in QB rushing yards this year). People comparing him to Case don't understand the difference. He has a better arm, is bigger, and faster, more athletic than Case.


I agree, he is better than Keenum


still has a lot to prove for me to hitch the wagon to him

plenty of examples of overpaying for an OK qb

Cousins
Case
Tannehill

Baltimore dude that won a SB (stupid old man brain)



drviking -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 10:41:42 AM)

Flacco...and i didnt even google it



Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 10:48:04 AM)

The trick is how long you want to wait on Dobbs....he has gone probably from the good backup money 2/8-10 to now in the 2/20 range already just in 2 weeks time.....strangest thing is that he has the same agent as Kirk.



Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 10:56:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall
If Dobbs is the long term answer. I hope they low ball him, seriously. Somebody is going to come over the top and over pay for Dobbs and sell that to their fan base?
I think some teams bid against themselves.


Why would you lowball him? He has talent, is smart, and mobile (2nd in QB rushing yards this year). People comparing him to Case don't understand the difference. He has a better arm, is bigger, and faster, more athletic than Case.



He's had two good games for us. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Case had more and we moved on.

There is a reason he was a journeyman before he came here. In the long run he probably isn't that good overall. but there is a chance that his success continues and any smart person and tie that to how well KOC is coaching him.

Lowball is not the best word here, but team friendly discount is not and should not be out of the question.



ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 10:57:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall
If Dobbs is the long term answer. I hope they low ball him, seriously. Somebody is going to come over the top and over pay for Dobbs and sell that to their fan base?
I think some teams bid against themselves.


Why would you lowball him? He has talent, is smart, and mobile (2nd in QB rushing yards this year). People comparing him to Case don't understand the difference. He has a better arm, is bigger, and faster, more athletic than Case.


Which teams desperate for a new QB in 2024 are going to target Dobbs?

Giants tossed a crap ton of money at Jones and why? Nobody wanted him.

Let it play out buy what teams desperate for a QB and needing to appease their fans are going to win the offseason by overpaying Dobbs? It's insanity, Arizona, Giants, and Cowboys just to name a few, "it's their turn" only to F' over the team for 1/2 a decade.



Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 10:57:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The most frustrating play of the game:
-10 Yard Penalty
(9:23) T.Chandler right end for 29 yards, TOUCHDOWN NULLIFIED by Penalty.
PENALTY on MIN-B.O'Neill, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at NO 29 - No Play.
3rd & 1 at NO 29

Explosive play and Chandler was past O'Neil's guy already.



But it was blatant and obvious holding. The call was right. Sadly.



Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 10:58:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall
If Dobbs is the long term answer. I hope they low ball him, seriously. Somebody is going to come over the top and over pay for Dobbs and sell that to their fan base?
I think some teams bid against themselves.


Why would you lowball him? He has talent, is smart, and mobile (2nd in QB rushing yards this year). People comparing him to Case don't understand the difference. He has a better arm, is bigger, and faster, more athletic than Case.


Which teams desperate for a new QB in 2024 are going to target Dobbs?

Giants tossed a crap ton of money at Jones and why? Nobody wanted him.

Let it play out buy what teams desperate for a QB and needing to appease their fans are going to win the offseason by overpaying Dobbs? It's insanity, Arizona, Giants, and Cowboys just to name a few, "it's their turn" only to F' over the team for 1/2 a decade.

I doubt Arizona will.



Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 11:01:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall
If Dobbs is the long term answer. I hope they low ball him, seriously. Somebody is going to come over the top and over pay for Dobbs and sell that to their fan base?
I think some teams bid against themselves.


Why would you lowball him? He has talent, is smart, and mobile (2nd in QB rushing yards this year). People comparing him to Case don't understand the difference. He has a better arm, is bigger, and faster, more athletic than Case.

Which teams desperate for a new QB in 2024 are going to target Dobbs?
Giants tossed a crap ton of money at Jones and why? Nobody wanted him.
Let it play out buy what teams desperate for a QB and needing to appease their fans are going to win the offseason by overpaying Dobbs? It's insanity, Arizona, Giants, and Cowboys just to name a few, "it's their turn" only to F' over the team for 1/2 a decade.


You did say lowball...he looks like a perfectly capable backup already at worst....3-7 million a year. He is making 1 million this year---he already has been lowballed many times. What was suggested was 2 years not half a decade.

Mullens makes around 3 million and Dobbs looks more capable....



Chris Olson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 11:03:03 AM)

so much hinges on "if he keeps playing this well"

while I love what is happening and it is very exciting, when teams have more film and are better able to game plan, i'm guessing on a production dip

there is a reason he has been on 5 teams and all...

while evaluators might not be right, but he has been seen as a solid back level QB his whole career

I'm just surprised so many here are talking about him being a starter down the road and thinking franchise tags and such

and that there would even be a question we might not go after a top QB in the draft...

maybe I'm a sour puss here, but I expect we try to sign Dobbs to 2 more years as probable starter while we bring along the guy we give up two drafts worth of picks for



David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 11:03:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
o'connell put the breaks on dobbs yesterday - that score should have been 38-13....

if dobbs can get us even one playoff win, we have to give him another season....

qb franchise tag: $32mm...transition tag: $28mm...for informational purposes only....

I hope we don't have to go down this road.

If he keeps playing well, 2yrs. $20M. Probably give him an opt out on 2nd year.


If he keeps playing this well, he'll have to realize that it has a lot to do with the coaching here. This is the right place for him.
His agent will claim he can do this anywhere but if he's smart, he will realize his best chance at success is in the right system. He was the definition of journeyman before arriving here.

Hopefully that will convince him to accept a "hometown" discount with hopes of future bigger contracts as his success continues with this coaching staff.

Just fantacizing. If Dobbs is smart he will realize that his greatest succes thusfar has been in this system with a coach that is coaching his ass off hand holding him through it all. But any agent in his ear will say it's your talent alone dude. we can make more money on the open market.


Unfotunately his agent has a history of bleeding us dry...



David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 11:08:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

so much hinges on "if he keeps playing this well"

while I love what is happening and it is very exciting, when teams have more film and are better able to game plan, i'm guessing on a production dip

there is a reason he has been on 5 teams and all...

while evaluators might not be right, but he has been seen as a solid back level QB his whole career

I'm just surprised so many here are talking about him being a starter down the road and thinking franchise tags and such

and that there would even be a question we might not go after a top QB in the draft...

maybe I'm a sour puss here, but I expect we try to sign Dobbs to 2 more years as probable starter while we bring along the guy we give up two drafts worth of picks for


That's my most likely scenario. But part of me wants to think he's on a Rich Gannon (or to dream HUGE, a Steve Young) path.



TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 11:10:47 AM)

Dobbs has played a little more than 7 quarters for us. Let's see how this plays out a little longer before we hammer out a contract extension and decide to build the offense around him for the next few years.



Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 11:11:05 AM)

Unfotunately his agent has a history of bleeding us dry...



Use it against him.

"We turned your 2 clients in to above average QB's when it was clear others couldn't. We can do it with another guy if you want to get cute"


Draft a guy like Penix. Similar qualities as Dobbs and let Dobbs be a bridge for a year and then a solid backup. Assuming he continues to be good.,



Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 11:11:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer
quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall
If Dobbs is the long term answer. I hope they low ball him, seriously. Somebody is going to come over the top and over pay for Dobbs and sell that to their fan base?
I think some teams bid against themselves.

Why would you lowball him? He has talent, is smart, and mobile (2nd in QB rushing yards this year). People comparing him to Case don't understand the difference. He has a better arm, is bigger, and faster, more athletic than Case.

He's had two good games for us. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Case had more and we moved on.
There is a reason he was a journeyman before he came here. In the long run he probably isn't that good overall. but there is a chance that his success continues and any smart person and tie that to how well KOC is coaching him.
Lowball is not the best word here, but team friendly discount is not and should not be out of the question.


Getting ahead of yourself was giving Randall a 5 year max contract....that isn't ever what I was suggesting.

Dobbs price already has gone up in even the backup qb market. Arizona performance and now ours---there is a half season body of work.



Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 11:13:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Dobbs has played a little more than 7 quarters for us. Let's see how this plays out a little longer before we hammer out a contract extension and decide to build the offense around him for the next few years.


THIS!



ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 11:22:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall
If Dobbs is the long term answer. I hope they low ball him, seriously. Somebody is going to come over the top and over pay for Dobbs and sell that to their fan base?
I think some teams bid against themselves.


Why would you lowball him? He has talent, is smart, and mobile (2nd in QB rushing yards this year). People comparing him to Case don't understand the difference. He has a better arm, is bigger, and faster, more athletic than Case.


Which teams desperate for a new QB in 2024 are going to target Dobbs?

Giants tossed a crap ton of money at Jones and why? Nobody wanted him.

Let it play out buy what teams desperate for a QB and needing to appease their fans are going to win the offseason by overpaying Dobbs? It's insanity, Arizona, Giants, and Cowboys just to name a few, "it's their turn" only to F' over the team for 1/2 a decade.

I doubt Arizona will.


Arizona already screwed themselves over by being in a hurry to overpay for Murray.
Same with Giants.
Dak couldn’t win the big game when he took a small portion of cap, not likely he does when he consumes a big chunk of it.

Dobbs might be answer but I would aim to make him one of the cheapest starters in NFL IF he shows a lot the rest of the way.

I think Seattle paid too much for Gino. I doubt teams were salivating for him.



David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 12:35:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Dobbs has played a little more than 7 quarters for us. Let's see how this plays out a little longer before we hammer out a contract extension and decide to build the offense around him for the next few years.


Dobbs and his agent might be feeling the same way.

I wouldn't be against gambling on a REASONABLE 2 year contract extension right now. Something that protects both sides if Dobbs turns into a pumpkin, and maybe an out after next year if he blows up.

Then if he's just your bridge/transition QB, you're paying reasonable market value while you develop a rookie.

If he blows up, you can work out a longer/bigger extension next year.

Plus, it virtually eliminates the chance of Cousins coming back.



Mark C. Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 1:32:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

We'll have to see how it goes but not sure if we need a 1st Round QB anymore.


Absolutely need a 1st round qb. Dobbs is good but just “good”. Take a chance on spectacular. Can always get another dobbs. Just don’t give dobbs something stupid like six years $185 million guaranteed.


Agreed. Do both. Dobbs has been very fun to watch, no question. He does have a little "Keenum" to him, that is, how he's kinda caught fire. It's a super small sample size so I'm all for signing him and drafting a QB...time to through resources at the problem!



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