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Mark C. Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 1:35:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Things that will take us far this year. Start Chandler KOC drops the conservative BS I really like what I saw of Chandler in last year's preseason games. I've been disappointed that he hasn't really been given much of a chance until yesterday's game. He adds a speed element that the offense needs from the running back position. He has the ability to go to the house that Mattison just doesn't have. Agreed on the conservative game play calling at the end of the game...almost cost the team a victory. Hopefully, the coach learns from that experience.

Mark C. Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 1:42:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Chase Young debuts with 49ers and gets 5 sacks. We signed Lowry who has 5.5 sacks the last 2.5 years (0 this year). Must be nice to acquire impact players. Chase Young is a great player, no doubt. But, we're getting a great season from Hunter and I'd say Wonnum has really, really improved this year. Neither may be Chase Young, but they're not bums either. I'd be interested in bringing Hunter back if he's a free agent (can't recall?). The defense is definitely improved with Flores as DC. I really hope he stays at least one more year as he's getting more out of the talent on the defense than I've seen in years. Probably wishful thinking as I'm sure he'll get some serious looks as a head coach elsewhere.

Mark C. Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 1:45:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Hockenson is 75% of the star we need him to be. He gutted it out today and some of his best highlights the last few weeks have him dragging escaping dragging guys for extra yards. If he could just start making more of some of the tougher catches. During the broadcast they said he has more receptions than any other TE this year and is second in yards. I don't know what more fans want from him? He's easily in the top 5 to 7 TE in the league. Hell of a good player and glad he's on our team as he's a difference maker.

beo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 1:50:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Chase Young debuts with 49ers and gets 5 sacks. We signed Lowry who has 5.5 sacks the last 2.5 years (0 this year). Must be nice to acquire impact players. Chase Young is a great player, no doubt. But, we're getting a great season from Hunter and I'd say Wonnum has really, really improved this year. Neither may be Chase Young, but they're not bums either. I'd be interested in bringing Hunter back if he's a free agent (can't recall?). The defense is definitely improved with Flores as DC. I really hope he stays at least one more year as he's getting more out of the talent on the defense than I've seen in years. Probably wishful thinking as I'm sure he'll get some serious looks as a head coach elsewhere. Slight clarification... 49ers defense had 5 sacks... and yes, Young certainly probably helped with that. Chase Young had .5 sacks.

Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 2:01:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Hockenson is 75% of the star we need him to be. He gutted it out today and some of his best highlights the last few weeks have him dragging escaping dragging guys for extra yards. If he could just start making more of some of the tougher catches. During the broadcast they said he has more receptions than any other TE this year and is second in yards. I don't know what more fans want from him? He's easily in the top 5 to 7 TE in the league. Hell of a good player and glad he's on our team as he's a difference maker. During the broadcast they said the Vikings had the most Interceptions this year. Then had to correct themselves on air as it was clear the truck was telling them the true stat that it was the SAINTS D that had the most pics thusfar. I wouldn't trust everything you hear on air. half these guys barely prepared for the game. That being said, what more people want out of TJ is for him to play for free and not effect our cap at all while catching 26 balls a game and scoring 5 TDs as well, all while making cookies and distributing food to the homeless. Even then, some people would complain.

Mark C. Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 2:03:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall If Dobbs is the long term answer. I hope they low ball him, seriously. Somebody is going to come over the top and over pay for Dobbs and sell that to their fan base? I think some teams bid against themselves. Why would you lowball him? He has talent, is smart, and mobile (2nd in QB rushing yards this year). People comparing him to Case don't understand the difference. He has a better arm, is bigger, and faster, more athletic than Case. The only comparison I see between Case and Dobbs is that they both caught fire once inserted into the lineup. You're right though that Dobbs is the superior athlete and has a much better arm. It's been a very long time since the Vikings had such an athletic QB...Cunningham/Culpepper. There were so many plays that would have just ended had Cousins been playing...I mean quite a few!

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 2:10:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Hockenson is 75% of the star we need him to be. He gutted it out today and some of his best highlights the last few weeks have him dragging escaping dragging guys for extra yards. If he could just start making more of some of the tougher catches. During the broadcast they said he has more receptions than any other TE this year and is second in yards. I don't know what more fans want from him? He's easily in the top 5 to 7 TE in the league. Hell of a good player and glad he's on our team as he's a difference maker. He improved during the game as well. TJ is now 1st in receptions and yards. He's two off the TD lead as well. Hock has played 10 games vs 8 for Kelce and 9 for Andrews. Receptions: TJ: 71 (2nd to Keenan Allen's 73 among all positions) Kelce: 57 Yards: TJ: 681 Kelce: 597 TDs: Andrews: 6 Kmet: 5 Hock: 4

beo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 2:25:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Hockenson is 75% of the star we need him to be. He gutted it out today and some of his best highlights the last few weeks have him dragging escaping dragging guys for extra yards. If he could just start making more of some of the tougher catches. During the broadcast they said he has more receptions than any other TE this year and is second in yards. I don't know what more fans want from him? He's easily in the top 5 to 7 TE in the league. Hell of a good player and glad he's on our team as he's a difference maker. He improved during the game as well. TJ is now 1st in receptions and yards. He's two off the TD lead as well. Hock has played 10 games vs 8 for Kelce and 9 for Andrews. Receptions: TJ: 71 (2nd to Keenan Allen's 73 among all positions) Kelce: 57 Yards: TJ: 681 Kelce: 597 TDs: Andrews: 6 Kmet: 5 Hock: 4 I was down on Hock early in the year as well... But it's hard to imagine if you were told at beginning of the year TJ would be second in catches after ten games FOR ALL PASS CATCHERS... you wouldn't be happy with production.

Nate -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 2:36:02 PM)
Count me in the "was down on TJ" crowd. We spent a 2nd and 3rd on him (getting 4th and conditional 4th back) and made him the highest paid TE (at least for now). Our expectations for him should be astronomical, and in the early games he was dropping balls, rarely coming away with contested balls and had a very pedestrian ypc average. More recently, he's being utilized more as a downfield threat, one they thought they were getting when they traded for him, and he's making that contract less uncomfortable. I still wish he caught more contested balls but at least he's become more the TE we wanted and need. Hopefully he can keep it up and consistently be in the top TEs in the league to match his salary. Personally, unless it's Kelce, I don't like having one of the highest paid TEs in the league and we have 2!!!! I'd rather spend that on OL, DL, and a QB, maybe WR and CB if they are special. We seem to pay TEs and Safties like they are the top premium positions.

Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 3:38:47 PM)
I think of that early crap was his timing within the offense. Since he had such a long hold-in, he missed a lot practice reps.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 3:42:18 PM)
. . jordan hicks out in denver.... Kevin Seifert@SeifertESPN Vikings LB Jordan Hicks developed compartment syndrome yesterday after bruising his shin, per coach Kevin O'Connell. He was taken from U.S. Bank Stadium to a local hospital, had a "procedure" and remains hospitalized, per O'Connell, "just out of precaution at this point."

fmaltes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 4:14:37 PM)
Great to see Chandler get more reps. He is much more explosive, quicker and has much better vision/instincts than Addison. His only "knock" is that he is a poor blocker and Addison is a very good blocker on pass plays/blitz pick up. Hoc was a great pick up. For those that believe we "overpaid" could you provide the "cheaper" alternative REALISTICALLY available to the Vikings? What equivalent tight end could the Vikings have gotten AT THAT TIME for less? Also, nominal dollar comparisons of contracts are misleading because the timing of the payments affects the value in two ways. First, one needs to calculate the net present value of future payments. But also, one needs to understand that the "salary cap cost" decreases approximately 10% a year because of the yearly increase the salary cap. Bottom line, Hoc was an excellent pick up and he is not overpaid. It is good that we will have more time to evaluate Dobbs. He has played well and he also seems to have the traits to be a very successful QB. However, we need a bigger sample size before offering a contract next season even though I am cautiously optimistic. Re Let's hope that Manion never makes it on the field. I think it is a bad idea to have him as the back up option. Tanner Morgan please.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 4:24:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fmaltes Great to see Chandler get more reps. He is much more explosive, quicker and has much better vision/instincts than Addison. His only "knock" is that he is a poor blocker and Addison is a very good blocker on pass plays/blitz pick up. Hoc was a great pick up. For those that believe we "overpaid" could you provide the "cheaper" alternative REALISTICALLY available to the Vikings? What equivalent tight end could the Vikings have gotten AT THAT TIME for less? Also, nominal dollar comparisons of contracts are misleading because the timing of the payments affects the value in two ways. First, one needs to calculate the net present value of future payments. But also, one needs to understand that the "salary cap cost" decreases approximately 10% a year because of the yearly increase the salary cap. Bottom line, Hoc was an excellent pick up and he is not overpaid. It is good that we will have more time to evaluate Dobbs. He has played well and he also seems to have the traits to be a very successful QB. However, we need a bigger sample size before offering a contract next season even though I am cautiously optimistic. Re Let's hope that Manion never makes it on the field. I think it is a bad idea to have him as the back up option. Tanner Morgan please. 1) Hall is back this week most likely (as a backup). 2) Everyone wants Chandler to play but he has an injury history----not sure how much that plays into it but our 2 backups (Kene and Chandler) have not been able to stay healthy.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 4:24:39 PM)
The disappointment in Hockenson was warranted for the first seven games. He had some drops (granted the drops got overblown and other tight ends were dropping at a similar rate) and his production was not commensurate to his new contract (that he made up a bullshit ailment to have a "hold-in" at camp) Game 1: 8 catches for 35 yards 0 TDs Game 2: 7 catches for 66 yards and 2 TDs - good game! Game 3: 8 catches for 78 yards and 0 TDs Game 4: 2 catches for 24 yards 0 TDs Game 5: 5 catches for 51 yards 0 TDs Game 6: 6 catches for 50 yards 0 TDs Game 7: 11 catches for 86 yards 0 TDs His yards/catch in that stretch was 8.30. Yucko. He was also targeted 59 times so he was seeing huge share of the targets. JJ had 53 targets prior to his injury to give some context. Now, the last 3 games have been all-world and the sky is the limit. People can change their opinions as the thing/person they have opinions on change their performance.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 4:25:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. The disappointment in Hockenson was warranted for the first seven games. He had some drops (granted the drops got overblown and other tight ends were dropping at a similar rate) and his production was not commensurate to his new contract (that he made up a bullshit ailment to have a "hold-in" at camp) Game 1: 8 catches for 35 yards 0 TDs Game 2: 7 catches for 66 yards and 2 TDs - good game! Game 3: 8 catches for 78 yards and 0 TDs Game 4: 2 catches for 24 yards 0 TDs Game 5: 5 catches for 51 yards 0 TDs Game 6: 6 catches for 50 yards 0 TDs Game 7: 11 catches for 86 yards 0 TDs His yards/catch in that stretch was 8.30. Yucko. He was also targeted 59 times so he was seeing huge share of the targets. JJ had 53 targets prior to his injury to give some context. Now, the last 3 games have been all-world and the sky is the limit. People can change their opinions as the thing/person they have opinions on change their performance. So is that some kind of speak that you are eating crow on TJ?

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 4:43:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. The disappointment in Hockenson was warranted for the first seven games. He had some drops (granted the drops got overblown and other tight ends were dropping at a similar rate) and his production was not commensurate to his new contract (that he made up a bullshit ailment to have a "hold-in" at camp) Game 1: 8 catches for 35 yards 0 TDs Game 2: 7 catches for 66 yards and 2 TDs - good game! Game 3: 8 catches for 78 yards and 0 TDs Game 4: 2 catches for 24 yards 0 TDs Game 5: 5 catches for 51 yards 0 TDs Game 6: 6 catches for 50 yards 0 TDs Game 7: 11 catches for 86 yards 0 TDs His yards/catch in that stretch was 8.30. Yucko. He was also targeted 59 times so he was seeing huge share of the targets. JJ had 53 targets prior to his injury to give some context. Now, the last 3 games have been all-world and the sky is the limit. People can change their opinions as the thing/person they have opinions on change their performance. So is that some kind of speak that you are eating crow on TJ? No. It just means a person is not dogmatic ... bending every piece of info to fit their opinion / unable to change an opinion. "People can change their opinions as the thing/person they have opinions on change their performance." We discuss as we go. I can't help it if Cousins was a choking dog before 2022. Then he wasn't for most of 2022. He was pushing all the haters into a corner. We were all wearing little dunce hats. Then the playoff game and UNFORTUNATELY ... he is what he is. Enthusiastic TE starved Viking fans like myself were very enthusiastic about getting Hockensen. Had visions of a move TE, not Mundt deluxe. Along with the extension, the drops. It was disappointing. Now not only the production but the toughness ... who isn't into that? A lot of good things starting to happen for this team, people like Wonnum and Hicks, etc. are showing up and ... unlike last year, it doesn't feel like we are getting every bounce ... and still getting wins.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 4:55:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. The disappointment in Hockenson was warranted for the first seven games. He had some drops (granted the drops got overblown and other tight ends were dropping at a similar rate) and his production was not commensurate to his new contract (that he made up a bullshit ailment to have a "hold-in" at camp) Game 1: 8 catches for 35 yards 0 TDs Game 2: 7 catches for 66 yards and 2 TDs - good game! Game 3: 8 catches for 78 yards and 0 TDs Game 4: 2 catches for 24 yards 0 TDs Game 5: 5 catches for 51 yards 0 TDs Game 6: 6 catches for 50 yards 0 TDs Game 7: 11 catches for 86 yards 0 TDs His yards/catch in that stretch was 8.30. Yucko. He was also targeted 59 times so he was seeing huge share of the targets. JJ had 53 targets prior to his injury to give some context. Now, the last 3 games have been all-world and the sky is the limit. People can change their opinions as the thing/person they have opinions on change their performance. So is that some kind of speak that you are eating crow on TJ? No. It just means a person is not dogmatic ... bending every piece of info to fit their opinion / unable to change an opinion. "People can change their opinions as the thing/person they have opinions on change their performance." We discuss as we go. I can't help it if Cousins was a choking dog before 2022. Then he wasn't for most of 2022. He was pushing all the haters into a corner. We were all wearing little dunce hats. Then the playoff game and UNFORTUNATELY ... he is what he is. Enthusiastic TE starved Viking fans like myself were very enthusiastic about getting Hockensen. Had visions of a move TE, not Mundt deluxe. Along with the extension, the drops. It was disappointing. Now not only the production but the toughness ... who isn't into that? A lot of good things starting to happen for this team, people like Wonnum and Hicks, etc. are showing up and ... unlike last year, it doesn't feel like we are getting every bounce ... and still getting wins. Whoa, slow down.......you seem to be the one who is defensive on David F's take on TJ....what does it have to do with Kirk 2022 or even the team in 2022? The team is built better in 2023....especially the defense, oline, and depth. They seem to be on a run to get to the playoffs first and foremost.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 5:45:58 PM)
Interesting? Ben Goessling@BenGoessling The #Vikings are bringing back Anthony Barr. They’re signing their first-round pick from 2014 to the practice squad, according to a source with knowledge of the situation. Adam Schefter@AdamSchefter With LB Jordan Hicks hurt, the Vikings are planning to re-sign four-time Pro-Bowl LB Anthony Barr, per league sources. Barr spent eight seasons in Minnesota after becoming the Vikings first-round pick in 2014. Matthew Coller@MatthewColler One thing about Anthony Barr is that he was the defensive play caller for many years with elite defenses. Not sure what his role will be but that has to be a factor. He was brilliant during the Zimmer years making checks vs. QBs changes at the line of scrimmage

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 5:47:47 PM)
Full story on Hicks and Barr: Vikings' Jordan Hicks in hospital after developing compartment syndrome https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38890890/vikings-jordan-hicks-hospital-developing-compartment-syndrome

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 5:52:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine Full story on Hicks and Barr: Vikings' Jordan Hicks in hospital after developing compartment syndrome https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38890890/vikings-jordan-hicks-hospital-developing-compartment-syndrome Compartment syndrome A painful and dangerous condition caused by pressure buildup from internal bleeding or swelling of tissues. The pressure decreases blood flow, depriving muscles and nerves of needed nourishment. ———***—— Not a good thing..

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 5:54:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. The disappointment in Hockenson was warranted for the first seven games. He had some drops (granted the drops got overblown and other tight ends were dropping at a similar rate) and his production was not commensurate to his new contract (that he made up a bullshit ailment to have a "hold-in" at camp) Game 1: 8 catches for 35 yards 0 TDs Game 2: 7 catches for 66 yards and 2 TDs - good game! Game 3: 8 catches for 78 yards and 0 TDs Game 4: 2 catches for 24 yards 0 TDs Game 5: 5 catches for 51 yards 0 TDs Game 6: 6 catches for 50 yards 0 TDs Game 7: 11 catches for 86 yards 0 TDs His yards/catch in that stretch was 8.30. Yucko. He was also targeted 59 times so he was seeing huge share of the targets. JJ had 53 targets prior to his injury to give some context. Now, the last 3 games have been all-world and the sky is the limit. People can change their opinions as the thing/person they have opinions on change their performance. So is that some kind of speak that you are eating crow on TJ? I’m really not sure if I’m supposed to eat crow on this or not. I haven’t posted too much on TJ since we traded for him that I can think of at the moment. Mostly I pointed out how much his yards per catch dropped since coming to the Vikings. Now it’s gone back up again. Probably a coincidence.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 6:00:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. The disappointment in Hockenson was warranted for the first seven games. He had some drops (granted the drops got overblown and other tight ends were dropping at a similar rate) and his production was not commensurate to his new contract (that he made up a bullshit ailment to have a "hold-in" at camp) Game 1: 8 catches for 35 yards 0 TDs Game 2: 7 catches for 66 yards and 2 TDs - good game! Game 3: 8 catches for 78 yards and 0 TDs Game 4: 2 catches for 24 yards 0 TDs Game 5: 5 catches for 51 yards 0 TDs Game 6: 6 catches for 50 yards 0 TDs Game 7: 11 catches for 86 yards 0 TDs His yards/catch in that stretch was 8.30. Yucko. He was also targeted 59 times so he was seeing huge share of the targets. JJ had 53 targets prior to his injury to give some context. Now, the last 3 games have been all-world and the sky is the limit. People can change their opinions as the thing/person they have opinions on change their performance. So is that some kind of speak that you are eating crow on TJ? I’m really not sure if I’m supposed to eat crow on this or not. I haven’t posted too much on TJ since we traded for him that I can think of at the moment. Mostly I pointed out how much his yards per catch dropped since coming to the Vikings. Now it’s gone back up again. Probably a coincidence. TBH. I didn’t think the defense would be top 12 midseason. That and Dobbs has surprised me. Reason #1 I want to resign Dobbs and Flores with nice raises-might be a light helping but still crow.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 6:16:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. The disappointment in Hockenson was warranted for the first seven games. He had some drops (granted the drops got overblown and other tight ends were dropping at a similar rate) and his production was not commensurate to his new contract (that he made up a bullshit ailment to have a "hold-in" at camp) Game 1: 8 catches for 35 yards 0 TDs Game 2: 7 catches for 66 yards and 2 TDs - good game! Game 3: 8 catches for 78 yards and 0 TDs Game 4: 2 catches for 24 yards 0 TDs Game 5: 5 catches for 51 yards 0 TDs Game 6: 6 catches for 50 yards 0 TDs Game 7: 11 catches for 86 yards 0 TDs His yards/catch in that stretch was 8.30. Yucko. He was also targeted 59 times so he was seeing huge share of the targets. JJ had 53 targets prior to his injury to give some context. Now, the last 3 games have been all-world and the sky is the limit. People can change their opinions as the thing/person they have opinions on change their performance. So is that some kind of speak that you are eating crow on TJ? No. It just means a person is not dogmatic ... bending every piece of info to fit their opinion / unable to change an opinion. "People can change their opinions as the thing/person they have opinions on change their performance." We discuss as we go. I can't help it if Cousins was a choking dog before 2022. Then he wasn't for most of 2022. He was pushing all the haters into a corner. We were all wearing little dunce hats. Then the playoff game and UNFORTUNATELY ... he is what he is. Enthusiastic TE starved Viking fans like myself were very enthusiastic about getting Hockensen. Had visions of a move TE, not Mundt deluxe. Along with the extension, the drops. It was disappointing. Now not only the production but the toughness ... who isn't into that? A lot of good things starting to happen for this team, people like Wonnum and Hicks, etc. are showing up and ... unlike last year, it doesn't feel like we are getting every bounce ... and still getting wins. Whoa, slow down.......you seem to be the one who is defensive on David F's take on TJ....what does it have to do with Kirk 2022 or even the team in 2022? The team is built better in 2023....especially the defense, oline, and depth. They seem to be on a run to get to the playoffs first and foremost. Yes right there are a ton of examples. I was about to use Hicks but habit took over.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/13/2023 6:55:45 PM)
It would have been tough to do with the Donatell defense, but when was the last time Kirk led the Vikings to a 3 TD lead ? When was the last time Kirk led the Vikings to a 3 TD lead by halftime?

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/14/2023 9:48:09 AM)
@Andrew_Krammer · Kevin O'Connell says the thing as he puts together an impressive offensive showing this season without Justin Jefferson and a new kind of quarterback: "There's no rule saying you have to stay the same throughout the season, you can evolve."

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