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Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/15/2024 6:38:13 PM)
I’ve completely lost my joy at Zimmer being gone, by the FN clueless “ KA offense “ of KOC.. The off season that got rid of Spiels and Zim was just a change of window dressing.. Idiot coach, carried bodily along by his pet QB.. and a defense that is soft and all smoke and mirrors.. Same sh$T, different spackle on the sounder of swine…(look it up, you gypsy cursed mockingbirds) Reminds me of the “lipstick on a pig” comment

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/15/2024 6:42:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser You would think that the way KOC got through the first couple of Dobbs games (by walking him through the play while he could) would be pretty amazing with Fields. You could get a good 1 year look for pretty cheap. I'm not advocating for it but it would be an interesting experiment. And then he proceeded to hammer Dobbs into a square hole once he started to learn the playbook. I'm sure if he got Fields in the offseason, he'd have plenty of time to try to forge him into Cousins... I’ve heard speculation that he didn’t want to change the O mid season but if he gets the offseason he can adapt but it’s a good point didn’t want to? More like was incapable of thinking on the fly.. It’s obvious once his scripted walkthrough plays are exhausted, that he throws blunt darts at a solid granite playcall sheet bullseye, hoping to chip of a piece of yardage by brute force..

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/16/2024 8:55:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser You would think that the way KOC got through the first couple of Dobbs games (by walking him through the play while he could) would be pretty amazing with Fields. You could get a good 1 year look for pretty cheap. I'm not advocating for it but it would be an interesting experiment. And then he proceeded to hammer Dobbs into a square hole once he started to learn the playbook. I'm sure if he got Fields in the offseason, he'd have plenty of time to try to forge him into Cousins... I’ve heard speculation that he didn’t want to change the O mid season but if he gets the offseason he can adapt but it’s a good point didn’t want to? More like was incapable of thinking on the fly.. It’s obvious once his scripted walkthrough plays are exhausted, that he throws blunt darts at a solid granite playcall sheet bullseye, hoping to chip of a piece of yardage by brute force.. Did you forget JJ was out about 7 weeks and all that was left was small WRs and oft injured Nailor? Then lets add on the 4 games w/o Murphy and the 4 game stretch w/o Hicks. Get a CB. DT, and a LB and the defense might be top 10. Flores is a great coach and he did the same with Miami. Don't necessarily need high draft picks but he turned Metellus into a S/LB hybrid, made Pace serviceable, and held up against the pass with Murphy as the top CB and many weeks it was Blackmon or Evans defending (as) the top CB.

Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/16/2024 10:22:27 AM)
Yeah, it sure seems some are as down on KOC as others are (me included) on KAM. Great combo [&:] I've been out on KAM. I think he's way over his ski's. I'm still hopeful on KOC but this is a pivotal year for him in my eyes. My fear is the "new QB" get both more leash.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/16/2024 10:57:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser You would think that the way KOC got through the first couple of Dobbs games (by walking him through the play while he could) would be pretty amazing with Fields. You could get a good 1 year look for pretty cheap. I'm not advocating for it but it would be an interesting experiment. And then he proceeded to hammer Dobbs into a square hole once he started to learn the playbook. I'm sure if he got Fields in the offseason, he'd have plenty of time to try to forge him into Cousins... I’ve heard speculation that he didn’t want to change the O mid season but if he gets the offseason he can adapt but it’s a good point didn’t want to? More like was incapable of thinking on the fly.. It’s obvious once his scripted walkthrough plays are exhausted, that he throws blunt darts at a solid granite playcall sheet bullseye, hoping to chip of a piece of yardage by brute force.. Did you forget JJ was out about 7 weeks and all that was left was small WRs and oft injured Nailor? Then lets add on the 4 games w/o Murphy and the 4 game stretch w/o Hicks. Get a CB. DT, and a LB and the defense might be top 10. Flores is a great coach and he did the same with Miami. Don't necessarily need high draft picks but he turned Metellus into a S/LB hybrid, made Pace serviceable, and held up against the pass with Murphy as the top CB and many weeks it was Blackmon or Evans defending (as) the top CB. All the more reason to let Dobbs continue to make plays with his legs. Trying to make him play like Cousins (especially with a depleted WR group) was coaching malfeasance.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/16/2024 10:58:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser Yeah, it sure seems some are as down on KOC as others are (me included) on KAM. Great combo [&:] I've been out on KAM. I think he's way over his ski's. I'm still hopeful on KOC but this is a pivotal year for him in my eyes. My fear is the "new QB" get both more leash. KOC seems like a great "rah rah" coach and the players really like him. But he also looks like a guy who is in way over his head as a play-caller and strategist.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/16/2024 12:15:19 PM)
Minnesota led the league in delay of game penalties the past two years: https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/delay-of-game?view=team&year=2023 And Minnesota burned countless timeouts in 2022 and 2023. There were several teams with just two penalties. And even one penalty. KOC and Cousins... Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/16/2024 12:20:17 PM)
26th in QB rating allowed. Yeah, we really "held up against the pass". The best thing the team has, year in and year out, is fans who give the team a pass.

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/16/2024 12:26:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser You would think that the way KOC got through the first couple of Dobbs games (by walking him through the play while he could) would be pretty amazing with Fields. You could get a good 1 year look for pretty cheap. I'm not advocating for it but it would be an interesting experiment. And then he proceeded to hammer Dobbs into a square hole once he started to learn the playbook. I'm sure if he got Fields in the offseason, he'd have plenty of time to try to forge him into Cousins... I’ve heard speculation that he didn’t want to change the O mid season but if he gets the offseason he can adapt but it’s a good point didn’t want to? More like was incapable of thinking on the fly.. It’s obvious once his scripted walkthrough plays are exhausted, that he throws blunt darts at a solid granite playcall sheet bullseye, hoping to chip of a piece of yardage by brute force.. Did you forget JJ was out about 7 weeks and all that was left was small WRs and oft injured Nailor? Then lets add on the 4 games w/o Murphy and the 4 game stretch w/o Hicks. Get a CB. DT, and a LB and the defense might be top 10. Flores is a great coach and he did the same with Miami. Don't necessarily need high draft picks but he turned Metellus into a S/LB hybrid, made Pace serviceable, and held up against the pass with Murphy as the top CB and many weeks it was Blackmon or Evans defending (as) the top CB. Was KOC the only coach to lose players for the year or weeks due to injury… **** making excuses for him.. He is a stick in the mud, clueless play caller, who can’t adapt his play-calling to a different defensive front, let alone a different QB, WR package or Running back.. kOC depends wholly on a certain tight end, a specific QB and ONE WR? That’s video game level ability, not NFL caliber coaching. Wtf? “Run MY play.. even if it sucks! It is YOUR fault if it doesn’t work, because I call perfect plays…” (Yea I’m paraphrasing his post game excuse fest.) Enjoy the mediocrity… I’d be willing to bet you can still find stats that “prove” an extension to KFC and KOC, BOTH, this offseason, will “ guarantee” at least one MVP and Superbowl appearance in the next three years.. You and your delusional beliefs in “philality” knows no bounds. ( “philality” has no connection to actual reality in any way, shape, or form, therefore, it needs its own word and definition) KOC is not a playcalling coach, who can adapt his scheme to change in personnel or game situations. You are OK with 7-9 and third place in our division? I am not. He gets no extension from me, unless he can prove he can create a playoff caliber team and NFL worthy offense and defense and special teams, from the scrap pile of talent he has to work with, thanks to idiotic cap strapping choices that management made. He is a “transition the franchise” from wannabe to actual deep playoff run contender, or he is a waste of time. Players loved Mike Tice, too.. How did that work out?

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/16/2024 12:34:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser You would think that the way KOC got through the first couple of Dobbs games (by walking him through the play while he could) would be pretty amazing with Fields. You could get a good 1 year look for pretty cheap. I'm not advocating for it but it would be an interesting experiment. And then he proceeded to hammer Dobbs into a square hole once he started to learn the playbook. I'm sure if he got Fields in the offseason, he'd have plenty of time to try to forge him into Cousins... I’ve heard speculation that he didn’t want to change the O mid season but if he gets the offseason he can adapt but it’s a good point didn’t want to? More like was incapable of thinking on the fly.. It’s obvious once his scripted walkthrough plays are exhausted, that he throws blunt darts at a solid granite playcall sheet bullseye, hoping to chip of a piece of yardage by brute force.. And why does it take KOC so long to call a play that translates simply to run into the RG? Or when he's feeling spunky, outside the RT?

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/16/2024 1:31:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser You would think that the way KOC got through the first couple of Dobbs games (by walking him through the play while he could) would be pretty amazing with Fields. You could get a good 1 year look for pretty cheap. I'm not advocating for it but it would be an interesting experiment. And then he proceeded to hammer Dobbs into a square hole once he started to learn the playbook. I'm sure if he got Fields in the offseason, he'd have plenty of time to try to forge him into Cousins... I’ve heard speculation that he didn’t want to change the O mid season but if he gets the offseason he can adapt but it’s a good point didn’t want to? More like was incapable of thinking on the fly.. It’s obvious once his scripted walkthrough plays are exhausted, that he throws blunt darts at a solid granite playcall sheet bullseye, hoping to chip of a piece of yardage by brute force.. Did you forget JJ was out about 7 weeks and all that was left was small WRs and oft injured Nailor? Then lets add on the 4 games w/o Murphy and the 4 game stretch w/o Hicks. Get a CB. DT, and a LB and the defense might be top 10. Flores is a great coach and he did the same with Miami. Don't necessarily need high draft picks but he turned Metellus into a S/LB hybrid, made Pace serviceable, and held up against the pass with Murphy as the top CB and many weeks it was Blackmon or Evans defending (as) the top CB. All the more reason to let Dobbs continue to make plays with his legs. Trying to make him play like Cousins (especially with a depleted WR group) was coaching malfeasance. KOC didn't do him any favors in Denver and Chicago games but teams schemed to keep Dobbs in pocket. He's(Dobbs) on his umpteenth team for a reason.

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/16/2024 1:37:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser You would think that the way KOC got through the first couple of Dobbs games (by walking him through the play while he could) would be pretty amazing with Fields. You could get a good 1 year look for pretty cheap. I'm not advocating for it but it would be an interesting experiment. And then he proceeded to hammer Dobbs into a square hole once he started to learn the playbook. I'm sure if he got Fields in the offseason, he'd have plenty of time to try to forge him into Cousins... I’ve heard speculation that he didn’t want to change the O mid season but if he gets the offseason he can adapt but it’s a good point didn’t want to? More like was incapable of thinking on the fly.. It’s obvious once his scripted walkthrough plays are exhausted, that he throws blunt darts at a solid granite playcall sheet bullseye, hoping to chip of a piece of yardage by brute force.. Did you forget JJ was out about 7 weeks and all that was left was small WRs and oft injured Nailor? Then lets add on the 4 games w/o Murphy and the 4 game stretch w/o Hicks. Get a CB. DT, and a LB and the defense might be top 10. Flores is a great coach and he did the same with Miami. Don't necessarily need high draft picks but he turned Metellus into a S/LB hybrid, made Pace serviceable, and held up against the pass with Murphy as the top CB and many weeks it was Blackmon or Evans defending (as) the top CB. All the more reason to let Dobbs continue to make plays with his legs. Trying to make him play like Cousins (especially with a depleted WR group) was coaching malfeasance. KOC didn't do him any favors in Denver and Chicago games but teams schemed to keep Dobbs in pocket. He's(Dobbs) on his umpteenth team for a reason. I agree with you on Dobbs. He was never going to be the QBOF, but KOCs inability to modify his scheme to suit Dobbs showed a lot of ineptitude.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/16/2024 1:40:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser You would think that the way KOC got through the first couple of Dobbs games (by walking him through the play while he could) would be pretty amazing with Fields. You could get a good 1 year look for pretty cheap. I'm not advocating for it but it would be an interesting experiment. And then he proceeded to hammer Dobbs into a square hole once he started to learn the playbook. I'm sure if he got Fields in the offseason, he'd have plenty of time to try to forge him into Cousins... I’ve heard speculation that he didn’t want to change the O mid season but if he gets the offseason he can adapt but it’s a good point didn’t want to? More like was incapable of thinking on the fly.. It’s obvious once his scripted walkthrough plays are exhausted, that he throws blunt darts at a solid granite playcall sheet bullseye, hoping to chip of a piece of yardage by brute force.. Did you forget JJ was out about 7 weeks and all that was left was small WRs and oft injured Nailor? Then lets add on the 4 games w/o Murphy and the 4 game stretch w/o Hicks. Get a CB. DT, and a LB and the defense might be top 10. Flores is a great coach and he did the same with Miami. Don't necessarily need high draft picks but he turned Metellus into a S/LB hybrid, made Pace serviceable, and held up against the pass with Murphy as the top CB and many weeks it was Blackmon or Evans defending (as) the top CB. All the more reason to let Dobbs continue to make plays with his legs. Trying to make him play like Cousins (especially with a depleted WR group) was coaching malfeasance. KOC didn't do him any favors in Denver and Chicago games but teams schemed to keep Dobbs in pocket. He's(Dobbs) on his umpteenth team for a reason. I agree with you on Dobbs. He was never going to be the QBOF, but KOCs inability to modify his scheme to suit Dobbs showed a lot of ineptitude. KOC deserves some blame. But, I saw many times where Dobbs ran RPO and chose the wrong option. Also, KOC didn't make him be completely careless with the ball.

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/16/2024 1:51:16 PM)
"Also, KOC didn't make him be completely careless with the ball" Very true. Dobbs was already a fumble machine when he got here.

bstinger -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/16/2024 2:20:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser Yeah, it sure seems some are as down on KOC as others are (me included) on KAM. Great combo [&:] I've been out on KAM. I think he's way over his ski's. I'm still hopeful on KOC but this is a pivotal year for him in my eyes. My fear is the "new QB" get both more leash. KOC seems like a great "rah rah" coach and the players really like him. But he also looks like a guy who is in way over his head as a play-caller and strategist. [sm=nodding.gif]

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/16/2024 2:34:52 PM)
Hot conspiracy take: Dobbs was brought in to fail but won in spike of expectations. Leadership got together and said, "find a way to get some losses".

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/16/2024 6:22:28 PM)
I get it. Kwesi had visions of signing the next HC / Off playcaller in the mold of McVay (LaFleur, etc) and pounced after the Rams' SB win. After the GM / HC old school - defensive flavored meltdown ... I was completely on board with the 'fresh new Turk' approach. Unfortunately, both dudes seem like they are feeling their way through the process, arm in arm. Neither seem like they came to the table with an aggressive new vision of how to make the Vikings competitive. We won a hell of a lot of games in 2021. Incredible. But what was the state of the team at the end of 2021 (not the beginning and middle)? We limped into the playoffs and choked to the only team worse than us in the playoffs. I'm sorry but as a die-hard Vikings fan, any choking that's not in a SB is a very poor showing LOL. Kevin was an OC-in-title-only in LA for 2 seasons ... on a team, by the way, that had passing and run game coordinators, as well as playcaller McVay. By most accounts, Kevin had a big impact on the Rams offense, although I'm not sure if anybody besides McVay knows what that was. The Rams have sucked on offense since Kevin left, that says a lot. To my eyesight, Kevin must have been very involved in gameplanning and getting the offense ready to play. Calling plays, in game adjustments ... not so much. Hard to know. Everybody Kevin has played or coached with talks about being very impressed with him. Maybe he'll make a big jump this season as a playcaller. But its a jump that needs to be made ... or we just don't have the right person in place. IMO

joejitsu -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/16/2024 6:56:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Minnesota led the league in delay of game penalties the past two years: https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/delay-of-game?view=team&year=2023 And Minnesota burned countless timeouts in 2022 and 2023. There were several teams with just two penalties. And even one penalty. KOC and Cousins... Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb. I think you meant to say Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dumber. I’ll have no faith in them until they complete it successful offseason.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/17/2024 9:59:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes I get it. Kwesi had visions of signing the next HC / Off playcaller in the mold of McVay (LaFleur, etc) and pounced after the Rams' SB win. After the GM / HC old school - defensive flavored meltdown ... I was completely on board with the 'fresh new Turk' approach. Unfortunately, both dudes seem like they are feeling their way through the process, arm in arm. Neither seem like they came to the table with an aggressive new vision of how to make the Vikings competitive. We won a hell of a lot of games in 2021. Incredible. But what was the state of the team at the end of 2021 (not the beginning and middle)? We limped into the playoffs and choked to the only team worse than us in the playoffs. I'm sorry but as a die-hard Vikings fan, any choking that's not in a SB is a very poor showing LOL. Kevin was an OC-in-title-only in LA for 2 seasons ... on a team, by the way, that had passing and run game coordinators, as well as playcaller McVay. By most accounts, Kevin had a big impact on the Rams offense, although I'm not sure if anybody besides McVay knows what that was. The Rams have sucked on offense since Kevin left, that says a lot. To my eyesight, Kevin must have been very involved in gameplanning and getting the offense ready to play. Calling plays, in game adjustments ... not so much. Hard to know. Everybody Kevin has played or coached with talks about being very impressed with him. Maybe he'll make a big jump this season as a playcaller. But its a jump that needs to be made ... or we just don't have the right person in place. IMO Was there ever a clear answer on why we didn't hire Harbaugh two years ago? Money? Control?

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/17/2024 10:14:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Minnesota led the league in delay of game penalties the past two years: https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/delay-of-game?view=team&year=2023 And Minnesota burned countless timeouts in 2022 and 2023. There were several teams with just two penalties. And even one penalty. KOC and Cousins... Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb. If I recall correctly there were even some delay of game penalties after we called a time out. In many instances it looked like amateur hour out there.

Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/17/2024 12:58:31 PM)
As much as a dumpster fire that KAM has been there's not enough flame thrown on RS by the fans as there should be IMO. He had an awesome draft in 2015 (hit a grand slam IMO) and a very good one in 2020 but those year in between were flat out shit and that lack of depth was glaring the past couple of years. 2015 Waynes Kendricks Hunter Clemmings Pruitt Diggs Tyus Thompson BJ Duhose Austin Shepherd Ed Robinson 2020 JJ Gladney Cleveland Dantzler Wonnum James Lynch Dye Harrison Hand KJ Blake Brandel Metellus Kenny Willekes Nate Stanley Brian Cole Kyle Hinton ________________________________________________________________________________________ Now the ugly: Treadwell Mac Alexander Beavers Brothers Boehringer Morgan Weatherly Kearse Cook Elflein Jaleel Johnson Gedeon Rodney Adams Isidora Bucky Hodges Stacy Coley Odenigbo Eiljah Lee Jack Tocho Hughes O'Neil Jalyn Holmes Conklin Carlson Colby Gossett Ade Aruna Devanta Downs Bradbury Irv Smith Mattison Samia Cam Smith Watts Epps Udoh Boyd Dillion Mitchell Olabisi Johnson Austin Cutting So, in 4 years worth of drafting, he picked 3 legit starters and 3 that get good playing time (and you could argue that they shouldn't). 3 (6 if you count guys that get on the field) out of 39 [>:]

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/17/2024 1:49:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Minnesota led the league in delay of game penalties the past two years: https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/delay-of-game?view=team&year=2023 And Minnesota burned countless timeouts in 2022 and 2023. There were several teams with just two penalties. And even one penalty. KOC and Cousins... Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb. If I recall correctly there were even some delay of game penalties after we called a time out. In many instances it looked like amateur hour out there. And visa versa, during hurry-up drives, you name it. Those two had no clue, now fingers crossed at least one will be gone.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/17/2024 2:24:51 PM)
As much as a dumpster fire that KAM has been there's not enough flame thrown on RS by the fans as there should be IMO. At least Spielman was finally fired. And he started out handling the cap pretty well. Word Salad came out firing away with as many credit cards as he could hide in his sockless penny loafers, then proceeded to whiff with his "Watch how I make the #12 overall pick evaporate" Cine and Booth bust picks.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/17/2024 2:31:10 PM)
If all the defensive FAs depart, I believe the only holdovers on D are Metellus, Bynum, and Jones (assumes Smith is cut). On offense, the holdovers are JJ, Darrisaw, O'Neill, Bradbury, Ham, Mattison, maybe Mullens.

Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/17/2024 2:33:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen As much as a dumpster fire that KAM has been there's not enough flame thrown on RS by the fans as there should be IMO. At least Spielman was finally fired. And he started out handling the cap pretty well. Word Salad came out firing away with as many credit cards as he could hide in his sockless penny loafers, then proceeded to whiff with his "Watch how I make the #12 overall pick evaporate" Cine and Booth bust picks. Yeah, I started that research thinking it was bad but was blown away with how bad it was. This is a HUGE draft for KAM. If he doesn't blow it out of the water he needs to go. Just the way they are handling the KC's situation is just rookie-ish. He is, essentially, holding them hostage. They commented that they can't work on the Hunter situation until Kirk is sorted. What a dumbass org. They are going to loose for a shitty comp pick. [X(]

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