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Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/20/2023 10:56:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M I've never been less excited near the eve of a new season. It seems like I say that every year...and every year I mean it. Of course. It takes time to rebound from the previous year's disappointment. We all know we're going to buy in on some level / start investing again in the following season. We're just wired that way. This year's team, however, seems very unlikely to break that cycle of disappointment. Very unlikely. "Every once in awhile a two-headed goat is born" so there's that argument ... you never know what can happen ... Yeah ... Ok. Whatever floats your two-headed goat boat. It's hard to imagine having a team that the consensus would be, "anything less than a SB appearance would be a disappointment." You pretty much have to have the best QB in the league for that to happen, or every other piece in order. So, if we're going to get it, it'll be with a team not unlike this one, imo. The O has to go and the D has to be at least middle of the road or better for a sniff. Is there a chance?

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/20/2023 11:20:23 AM)
Last year was crazy fun, but I’m not sure how you build on it. All the insane comebacks to win 1 score games when we were down at the half feels more like a statistical improbability than a direction forward. We could be a better team and win 4 or 5 fewer games.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/20/2023 11:20:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine Last year was crazy fun, but I’m not sure how you build on it. All the insane comebacks to win 1 score games when we were down at the half feels more like a statistical improbability than a direction forward. We could be a better team and win 4 or 5 fewer games. Exactly.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/20/2023 11:22:41 AM)
If the defense is in the top 15 and we only won 11 games this season I would probably like our chances to win a playoff game over last year to be honest.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/20/2023 11:32:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer If the defense is in the top 15 and we only won 11 games this season I would probably like our chances to win a playoff game over last year to be honest. If you can win one you can win two.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/20/2023 12:36:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M I've never been less excited near the eve of a new season. It seems like I say that every year...and every year I mean it. Of course. It takes time to rebound from the previous year's disappointment. We all know we're going to buy in on some level / start investing again in the following season. We're just wired that way. This year's team, however, seems very unlikely to break that cycle of disappointment. Very unlikely. "Every once in awhile a two-headed goat is born" so there's that argument ... you never know what can happen ... Yeah ... Ok. Whatever floats your two-headed goat boat. It's hard to imagine having a team that the consensus would be, "anything less than a SB appearance would be a disappointment." You pretty much have to have the best QB in the league for that to happen, or every other piece in order. So, if we're going to get it, it'll be with a team not unlike this one, imo. The O has to go and the D has to be at least middle of the road or better for a sniff. Is there a chance? Thats fair. Afterall, the teams that start as SB favorites don’t win it probably as often as we think. It would not surprise me if teams NOT in the conversation for most likely to be in the SB (before the season) … win the SB as much as early presumptive favorites. Its the teams that get hot before / during the playoffs. Seems like it anyways. I don’t need a top 3 or 4 or 5 tprojected team but I do need something more competitive than than the middle of the pack team that showed up for the playoffs last year … to raise my expectations.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/20/2023 12:41:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer If the defense is in the top 15 and we only won 11 games this season I would probably like our chances to win a playoff game over last year to be honest. If you can win one you can win two. Absolutely.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/20/2023 2:37:12 PM)
Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson 2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash. 2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace.

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/20/2023 3:18:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson 2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash. 2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace. They gave the Cleveland pick an A? That's a bit generous.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/21/2023 12:01:32 AM)
When it comes to pre-season, sometimes there is a difference between "they're not showing too much" and "they're not showing too much", and sometimes they're about the same.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/21/2023 7:22:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson 2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash. 2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace. 2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw 2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB. 2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well.

Karl Juhnke -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/21/2023 8:07:13 AM)
2022 draft was a flop. But I’m not ready to close the book on it until I see a healthy Cine in a Brian Flores defense. Donatell seemed to be about jamming square pegs into round holes. Hopefully Flores will be better able to put players in positions where they can succeed. For Cine that means not being a classic pure cover guy, but being a disrupter, a hybrid, patrolling the middle but able to take on a pass catching TE better than a linebacker. If he can have a productive role, the draft gets upgraded from F to maybe D+ or C-

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/21/2023 8:13:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke 2022 draft was a flop. But I’m not ready to close the book on it until I see a healthy Cine in a Brian Flores defense. Donatell seemed to be about jamming square pegs into round holes. Hopefully Flores will be better able to put players in positions where they can succeed. For Cine that means not being a classic pure cover guy, but being a disrupter, a hybrid, patrolling the middle but able to take on a pass catching TE better than a linebacker. If he can have a productive role, the draft gets upgraded from F to maybe D+ or C- So basically what Metellus was doing with the first team according to a Seifert report.

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/21/2023 8:13:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke 2022 draft was a flop. But I’m not ready to close the book on it until I see a healthy Cine in a Brian Flores defense. Donatell seemed to be about jamming square pegs into round holes. Hopefully Flores will be better able to put players in positions where they can succeed. For Cine that means not being a classic pure cover guy, but being a disrupter, a hybrid, patrolling the middle but able to take on a pass catching TE better than a linebacker. If he can have a productive role, the draft gets upgraded from F to maybe D+ or C- My less than expert opinion is that the biggest thing Cine needs to do is get his pads lower. I notice him being on time for plays, but whether it is trying to make a tackle or shed a block, he is always standing straight up. He has no leverage and as a result is getting knocked backwards during contact.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/21/2023 8:17:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson 2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash. 2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace. 2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw 2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB. 2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well. You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ? And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar.

stfrank -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/21/2023 8:29:44 AM)
Watching the Titans backups beat the snot out of our backups pretty much sums up our recent drafts in my opinion.

ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/21/2023 8:38:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stfrank Watching the Titans backups beat the snot out of our backups pretty much sums up our recent drafts in my opinion. Very true. Spielman was a GM way longer than he should have been. He should have been fired after reaching on Ponder.

Karl Juhnke -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/21/2023 8:58:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke 2022 draft was a flop. But I’m not ready to close the book on it until I see a healthy Cine in a Brian Flores defense. Donatell seemed to be about jamming square pegs into round holes. Hopefully Flores will be better able to put players in positions where they can succeed. For Cine that means not being a classic pure cover guy, but being a disrupter, a hybrid, patrolling the middle but able to take on a pass catching TE better than a linebacker. If he can have a productive role, the draft gets upgraded from F to maybe D+ or C- So basically what Metellus was doing with the first team according to a Seifert report. True. But you can never have too many of those guys. They give a coordinator flexibility. Again, this is all dependent on, is Cine actually up to the task? Still remains to be Cine. (Get it?)

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/21/2023 9:02:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson 2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash. 2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace. 2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw 2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB. 2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well. You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ? And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar. That is what most teams use as measurement of drafts (2-3 starters is the norm)....not necessarily as a measure of success (that would be Pro Bowlers or All Pro) of course. You said nothing is coming out of those drafts (22 and 23)....that isn't true.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/21/2023 10:00:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke 2022 draft was a flop. But I’m not ready to close the book on it until I see a healthy Cine in a Brian Flores defense. Donatell seemed to be about jamming square pegs into round holes. Hopefully Flores will be better able to put players in positions where they can succeed. For Cine that means not being a classic pure cover guy, but being a disrupter, a hybrid, patrolling the middle but able to take on a pass catching TE better than a linebacker. If he can have a productive role, the draft gets upgraded from F to maybe D+ or C- My less than expert opinion is that the biggest thing Cine needs to do is get his pads lower. I notice him being on time for plays, but whether it is trying to make a tackle or shed a block, he is always standing straight up. He has no leverage and as a result is getting knocked backwards during contact. Isn't that something you learn in youth football?

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/21/2023 10:07:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson 2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash. 2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace. 2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw 2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB. 2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well. You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ? And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar. Kwesi should have just taken the blue chip player in Hamilton vs getting cute with all the trade backs. He not only got burnt on the return (Det) trade value but also netted (what looks like) poorly picked players. I'd take Hamilton over all of Cine, Booth, Ingram.

Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/21/2023 10:14:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson 2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash. 2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace. 2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw 2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB. 2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well. You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ? And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar. Kwesi should have just taken the blue chip player in Hamilton vs getting cute with all the trade backs. He not only got burnt on the return (Det) trade value but also netted (what looks like) poorly picked players. I'd take Hamilton over all of Cine, Booth, Ingram. Agree. Frustrating.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/21/2023 10:37:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson 2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash. 2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace. 2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw 2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB. 2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well. You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ? And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar. That is what most teams use as measurement of drafts (2-3 starters is the norm)....not necessarily as a measure of success (that would be Pro Bowlers or All Pro) of course. You said nothing is coming out of those drafts (22 and 23)....that isn't true. So Ponder measures out as a good draft pick because he started?

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/21/2023 11:02:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson 2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash. 2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace. 2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw 2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB. 2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well. You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ? And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar. That is what most teams use as measurement of drafts (2-3 starters is the norm)....not necessarily as a measure of success (that would be Pro Bowlers or All Pro) of course. You said nothing is coming out of those drafts (22 and 23)....that isn't true. So Ponder measures out as a good draft pick because he started? lol ... ouch

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/21/2023 11:11:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Grading the 2020 draft class, that was the 15 player draft which included Gladney at #31 overall: https://www.ballysports.com/north/news/3-year-analysis-grading-minnesota-vikings-2020-nfl-draft-class-justin-jefferson 2021 has Darrisaw and 4th rounder Bynum, but the three 3rd round picks were trash. 2022 looks terrible so far. Not hearing about any draftees from 2023 except undrafted Pace. 2021 was bad outside of Darrisaw 2022 2nd 2nd (Ingram), 3rd and 4th rounders are starters or close to it (Cine and Booth have to pick it up). Chandler backup RB. 2023 Blackmon and Addison with get a ton of near start play. Roy will get PT as well. You always classify a starter as if it is a measure of success. I differ in that a crappy starter like Ingram is a crappy player that counts as a negative in the draft. Still holding out hope for him, and Cine too. Booth should be cut. Asamoah had no competition until Pace showed up. Evans is a ? And Chandler a backup RB? 6 carries, 3.3 ypc? More like a guy that snuck into the huddle for a drive. What a low bar. That is what most teams use as measurement of drafts (2-3 starters is the norm)....not necessarily as a measure of success (that would be Pro Bowlers or All Pro) of course. You said nothing is coming out of those drafts (22 and 23)....that isn't true. There is a whole lot of levels between a guy like Ingram and a Pro Bowler. Getting a solid starter (but not a star) is a measure of success. Getting a starter because you can't find anyone better is not.

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