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Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/27/2023 8:14:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom Trey Lance traded to Dallas. Thank you Cowpukes. [:'(][:D] I would love to have Lance over Hall as a project ... much higher cieling IMO ... just not for a 4th rd pick at this point (as its being reported by nfl.com). I give SF credit for quickly course correcting (although they got ridiculously lucky with Purdy). I give Dallas credit for gambling on a project at QB with MAYBE some ceiling. Certainly more than the usual 1 out of 1 million chance late rd draft pick. I was actually disappointed to see the trade to D myself. I actually like Rush as a backup more than Prescott as a starter … so surprised they would give up 4th for somebody who’s going to sit for awhile. Its a wild stab but yeah I would hate for Lance to turn into something now. Freakin Cowboys. Of course you do! Cooper Rush or Rush Cooper looked like a Pro Bowler against us. Thinking we will have a high-intensity defense that will make a lot of mistakes. Envision a play action where five Vikings defenders tackle the would be ball carrier while some QB tosses a 50 yarder for a TD... the color man announcer saying "Oh, that looked like a big breakdown in communication." I can't even remember when that started ... making backups look all pro. It seems like its been going on forever. However, 5 vikings defenders converging on a would be ball carrier ... even the wrong one ... vast improvement! I'm back on the wagon!

thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/27/2023 10:05:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer When Fields can show he's more than a running back I'll buy in. Yup. I fully expect Richardson to have some super human highlight reel runs for Colts and people will declare him the second coming. Can he throw? Lots of these run first QBs better win big quickly because they will end up sucking if they can’t figure out passing from pocket. Not to mention the inevitable injury that takes away that running game from there play

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/27/2023 10:49:43 PM)
Vedarian Lowe traded to New England for a 6th round pick. We actually got a pick for one of our O Line would be cuts.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/28/2023 7:52:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom I thought Hall was horrible today. Decent start, but finished so bad. i agree - i'd let him go.... did well with the first series of scripted plays and then fell off badly.... I saw enough to keep him as the third QB...he was drafted as a developmental guy for a reason. He looked athletic in the pocket. Not saying he is Culpepper but I remember watching him his first year and wondering what the hell we did---he actually looked worse than Hall his first year in preseason games.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/28/2023 10:17:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom I thought Hall was horrible today. Decent start, but finished so bad. i agree - i'd let him go.... did well with the first series of scripted plays and then fell off badly.... I saw enough to keep him as the third QB...he was drafted as a developmental guy for a reason. He looked athletic in the pocket. Not saying he is Culpepper but I remember watching him his first year and wondering what the hell we did---he actually looked worse than Hall his first year in preseason games. Its too early to give up on him but he hasn’t shown anything. Mobility is a bare minimum, not a great attribute. It only stands out because our other two QBs are so lacking. I hope he develops. It bothers me though that our calculus seems to be finding someone we can safely stash on our PS to develop, i.e., not good enough to compete for backup right now, much less eventual starter. Our offseason plan started with ‘Cousins and Mullens are untouchable’ in highliter. No, I don’t consider myself more savy than Kwesi or Kevin - before you go there - I get it, there’s a lot of reasons for … but it irks me. In fact, it Wrath of Khan ‘tasks’ me.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/28/2023 11:27:59 AM)
Considering the legit QB alternatives are to extend Cousins or draft a QB high, I don't see a problem taking a flyer on Hall or any QB in the bottom of the 5th round (pick #164 which in the pre-supplemental days would have been a high 6th rounder). For a comparison of Kwesi's draft acumen, look at the 2022 5th rounder taken a spot below at #165 (DE Otomewo).

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/28/2023 11:31:35 AM)
From the 5th round on, take BPA among the premium positions like QB, CB, DE, T, or flyers on players at positions of dire need.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/28/2023 11:36:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom I thought Hall was horrible today. Decent start, but finished so bad. i agree - i'd let him go.... did well with the first series of scripted plays and then fell off badly.... I saw enough to keep him as the third QB...he was drafted as a developmental guy for a reason. He looked athletic in the pocket. Not saying he is Culpepper but I remember watching him his first year and wondering what the hell we did---he actually looked worse than Hall his first year in preseason games. Its too early to give up on him but he hasn’t shown anything. Mobility is a bare minimum, not a great attribute. It only stands out because our other two QBs are so lacking. I hope he develops. It bothers me though that our calculus seems to be finding someone we can safely stash on our PS to develop, i.e., not good enough to compete for backup right now, much less eventual starter. Our offseason plan started with ‘Cousins and Mullens are untouchable’ in highliter. No, I don’t consider myself more savy than Kwesi or Kevin - before you go there - I get it, there’s a lot of reasons for … but it irks me. In fact, it Wrath of Khan ‘tasks’ me. History for drafting QB early is such a high cost that the spot and cost of drafting Herbert, Mahomes, Fields in the middle of the first seems like the sweet spot---those teams are feeling better than the Rosen, Lance, Wilson teams....

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/28/2023 11:38:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom I thought Hall was horrible today. Decent start, but finished so bad. i agree - i'd let him go.... did well with the first series of scripted plays and then fell off badly.... I saw enough to keep him as the third QB...he was drafted as a developmental guy for a reason. He looked athletic in the pocket. Not saying he is Culpepper but I remember watching him his first year and wondering what the hell we did---he actually looked worse than Hall his first year in preseason games. Its too early to give up on him but he hasn’t shown anything. Mobility is a bare minimum, not a great attribute. It only stands out because our other two QBs are so lacking. I hope he develops. It bothers me though that our calculus seems to be finding someone we can safely stash on our PS to develop, i.e., not good enough to compete for backup right now, much less eventual starter. Our offseason plan started with ‘Cousins and Mullens are untouchable’ in highliter. No, I don’t consider myself more savy than Kwesi or Kevin - before you go there - I get it, there’s a lot of reasons for … but it irks me. In fact, it Wrath of Khan ‘tasks’ me. Who knows how many reps he did get (in practice) before that game but I saw more in him than some other clipboard huggers. I also saw him throwing to a collection of WR/TE not named JJ, Addison, KJ or TJ.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/28/2023 12:45:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Considering the legit QB alternatives are to extend Cousins or draft a QB high, I don't see a problem taking a flyer on Hall or any QB in the bottom of the 5th round (pick #164 which in the pre-supplemental days would have been a high 6th rounder). For a comparison of Kwesi's draft acumen, look at the 2022 5th rounder taken a spot below at #165 (DE Otomewo). I don't either. My gripe is not with practice squad filler, You have to take chances. It's with no real competition for the PS spot or #2 spot. I get that these guys like Mullens and Hall ... I know that QB requires a different approach than the other positions. Maybe its purely a function of the limited reps and exposure it takes to develop / prepare QBs... It just always seems like a stripped down approach to me with narrower options decided very early. While we are oozing TEs ...

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/28/2023 1:45:28 PM)
I question why we didn't cough up a 4th for Lance. Considering the Wilf's want the team to remain competitive during the rebuild puts us square in NFL QB purgatory. Lance is a bit of a long shot but clearly has the tools to become a franchise qb. I think Hall's ceiling is career backup.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/28/2023 1:50:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro I question why we didn't cough up a 4th for Lance. Considering the Wilf's want the team to remain competitive during the rebuild puts us square in NFL QB purgatory. Lance is a bit of a long shot but clearly has the tools to become a franchise qb. I think Hall's ceiling is career backup. Its the most important position in the game by a mile. If you're going to spend a current 5th on a guy like Hall, why wouldn't you trade a future 4th (essentially 5th round value) for a MUCH better prospect. Its water under the bridge now, but I also found it interesting that while Shanahan has a fantastic record of putting players in the best position to succeed, he does NOT have a good rep for developing young QBs.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/28/2023 1:59:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro I question why we didn't cough up a 4th for Lance. Considering the Wilf's want the team to remain competitive during the rebuild puts us square in NFL QB purgatory. Lance is a bit of a long shot but clearly has the tools to become a franchise qb. I think Hall's ceiling is career backup. Its the most important position in the game by a mile. If you're going to spend a current 5th on a guy like Hall, why wouldn't you trade a future 4th (essentially 5th round value) for a MUCH better prospect. Its water under the bridge now, but I also found it interesting that while Shanahan has a fantastic record of putting players in the best position to succeed, he does NOT have a good rep for developing young QBs. Lance has had a bit of the injury bug of a broken ankle/leg and the hand injury last year. Purdy just ended up being better at reading defenses and reacting quicker....SF really lucked out because they traded a ton of picks for Lance. I finde it strange SF didn't draft a DTR instead of bringing in Darnold as the 2nd string....

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/28/2023 2:12:52 PM)
Kirk has to be back. Do the Vikings really want to be developing a QB during JJ's prime years. No way. Kirk will be back.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/28/2023 2:41:56 PM)
I finde it strange SF didn't draft a DTR instead of bringing in Darnold as the 2nd string.... Most teams prefer the #2 qb to have some game exp.

Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/28/2023 2:53:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro I question why we didn't cough up a 4th for Lance. Considering the Wilf's want the team to remain competitive during the rebuild puts us square in NFL QB purgatory. Lance is a bit of a long shot but clearly has the tools to become a franchise qb. I think Hall's ceiling is career backup. There are warning signs all over Lance that he's not a very talented football player. Wasn't worth the pick. Cowboys got conned. Because of Covid, and injuries Lance has hardly played in years. When he got a chance he didn't look all that competent. I exhaled a sigh of relief when I round out that he wasn't coming here.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/28/2023 2:54:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro I finde it strange SF didn't draft a DTR instead of bringing in Darnold as the 2nd string.... Most teams prefer the #2 qb to have some game exp. DTR is better than Darnold already from what I saw.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/28/2023 3:45:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro I question why we didn't cough up a 4th for Lance. Considering the Wilf's want the team to remain competitive during the rebuild puts us square in NFL QB purgatory. Lance is a bit of a long shot but clearly has the tools to become a franchise qb. I think Hall's ceiling is career backup. There are warning signs all over Lance that he's not a very talented football player. Wasn't worth the pick. Cowboys got conned. Because of Covid, and injuries Lance has hardly played in years. When he got a chance he didn't look all that competent. I exhaled a sigh of relief when I round out that he wasn't coming here. [sm=dillydilly.jpg][sm=ditto.gif]

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/28/2023 3:58:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom Kirk has to be back. Do the Vikings really want to be developing a QB during JJ's prime years. No way. Kirk will be back. I can guarantee that Kirk will be back. Not because of JJ but because our ownership and current regime seems more than happy with smaller successes over a more transformative goal of going after the one big thing. You’re right, that would mean stepping on KCs or JJs toes and thats a big no-no.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/28/2023 4:00:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom Kirk has to be back. Do the Vikings really want to be developing a QB during JJ's prime years. No way. Kirk will be back. I can guarantee that Kirk will be back. Not because of JJ but because our ownership and current regime seems more than happy with smaller successes over a more transformative goal of going after the one big thing. You’re right, that would mean stepping on KCs or JJs toes and thats a big no-no. I believe keeping Kirk is the best way to go after the one big thing.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/28/2023 5:00:24 PM)
Strange that 'One playoff win in 11 years' Cousins is so good yet his contract was not extended. Maybe not so strange considering that happened to him in Washington as well. Fool's gold. "...Kirk will be back. Not because of JJ..." More like Kirk will not be back because of JJ. 30 million reasons a year help explain why. JJ, Darrisaw, O'Neill, Hock, + dead cap will result in having to go with a high pick at QB.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/28/2023 5:11:15 PM)
BTW, how long is a competitive rebuild supposed to last, and how far along are things? Is anyone on D talented enough to worry a DC? Someone on the DL? At LB? DB? Lots of new faces suggests it is another "we have to see what we have" year. So it's laughable reading Cousins is the best bet to take us to the promised land. Well, that is technically true, especially for now. He may be the best out of no alternatives, but that doesn't mean he is the guy that can or will do it.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/28/2023 5:21:32 PM)
Id like to think, unlike many, Kirk got better and is going to get better yet going forward. Theres lots of talk about his past like he hasnt got any better since year 5. Pretty sure he works pretty hard at improving his game. We should have a better team than last year, better than anything Zim did for him, so let's see where it takes us. Be interesting to see what promises the fan base will make this year. "If only ..."

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/28/2023 5:24:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro I finde it strange SF didn't draft a DTR instead of bringing in Darnold as the 2nd string.... Most teams prefer the #2 qb to have some game exp. DTR is better than Darnold already from what I saw. It's kind of like us with Sean Mannion. Coaches like a veteran holding the clipboard that can add their 2 cents in and help the starter. Not saying I agree with it.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/28/2023 5:24:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J Id like to think, unlike many, Kirk got better and is going to get better yet going forward. Theres lots of talk about his past like he hasnt got any better since year 5. Pretty sure he works pretty hard at improving his game. We should have a better team than last year, better than anything Zim did for him, so let's see where it takes us. Be interesting to see what promises the fan base will make this year. "If only ..." It's totally possible. But probably unlikely at age 35 and going into his 12th year (9th as a starter) that he has much untapped upside.

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