RE: General Vikes Talk

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Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 12:20:33 PM)
Davenport signs for $13 million. Half of his salary is parked in a void year for cap purposes. Nary a peep. Hock signs for $3 million over market value and the sky is falling for one poster. This is and will be fun to watch!

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 12:33:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer SKOR North @SKORNorth · 9s PAY-DAY: #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson is now the highest-paid tight end in the NFL, signing a four-year $68.5 million contract extension with $42.5 million guaranteed. #SKOL HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE. Anything over 13 is too much. How can we afford to sign the other players we need to sign now. This one makes me sick. Maybe if we weren't paying so much to a mediocre qb. Well now we won't be able to pay that QB that you think is mediocre. He's as good as gone. So after this season JJ and Hock will be the highest paid WR and TE in the league with nobody to throw them the football. Good luck to JJ and Hock with Jaren Hall as their QB. Oh no! The Vikings have to actually find a good young prospect on their 1st contract! We got him I guess. Jaren Hall. Good luck with that. Even if we found one odds are at least 3 years for him to develop. So we will be paying JJ and Hock the highest WR and TE contract in the league and wasting them for the next 3 years MINIMUM. Paying Cousins boatloads of money isn't the answer. Time to actually find a franchise qb. The time for being lazy will come to an end. In case you hadn't noticed we aren't paying Cousins Boatloads of money. I think he is currently the 14th highest paid QB in the league. An adequate replacement will cost more and a draft pick or Jaren Hall are likely to take at least 3 years wasting Hock and JJ. Yes but you're upset because we won't be able to pay him more.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 12:34:42 PM)
Maybe I'm overreacting, but I just don't see any way signing Hock to the biggest TE deal in history will have a happy ending.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 12:35:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer SKOR North @SKORNorth · 9s PAY-DAY: #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson is now the highest-paid tight end in the NFL, signing a four-year $68.5 million contract extension with $42.5 million guaranteed. #SKOL HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE. Anything over 13 is too much. How can we afford to sign the other players we need to sign now. This one makes me sick. Maybe if we weren't paying so much to a mediocre qb. Well now we won't be able to pay that QB that you think is mediocre. He's as good as gone. So after this season JJ and Hock will be the highest paid WR and TE in the league with nobody to throw them the football. Good luck to JJ and Hock with Jaren Hall as their QB. Oh no! The Vikings have to actually find a good young prospect on their 1st contract! We got him I guess. Jaren Hall. Good luck with that. Even if we found one odds are at least 3 years for him to develop. So we will be paying JJ and Hock the highest WR and TE contract in the league and wasting them for the next 3 years MINIMUM. Paying Cousins boatloads of money isn't the answer. Time to actually find a franchise qb. The time for being lazy will come to an end. In case you hadn't noticed we aren't paying Cousins Boatloads of money. I think he is currently the 14th highest paid QB in the league. An adequate replacement will cost more and a draft pick or Jaren Hall are likely to take at least 3 years wasting Hock and JJ. Yes but you're upset because we won't be able to pay him more. Believe me I want to get Kirk for the lowest contract possible. I was hoping Kirk and JJ would make a pact to both take less so they could continue to play together.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 12:36:11 PM)
"Krauser" on Hall: Yeah Hall looks pretty good here. Couple of ugly plays and a bunch of impressive ones. I give him credit for the last play even though he made a mistake crossing the LOS -- that's the ability to create out of structure that Cousins has been sorely lacking. Should put to rest the "first read only" line that was going around the day after the game. I do think he's a tick late with a couple of his decisions but he is getting through his reads. The video he's referencing: Jaren Hall Preseason Week 3 Analysis - The QB School https://youtu.be/Px2fS1TBGd4?si=B1sNSaZoq1hHcYrs

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 12:37:54 PM)
Tom Pelissero@TomPelissero Details on #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson’s extension: Base value: $66M over 4 new years Cash flow: $32M over 2 years, $48M over 3 Full guarantee: $29M at signing (including ~$9M left on rookie deal) Total guarantee: $42.5M Max: $68.5M with incentives Now signed through 2027

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 12:38:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine "Krauser" on Hall: Yeah Hall looks pretty good here. Couple of ugly plays and a bunch of impressive ones. I give him credit for the last play even though he made a mistake crossing the LOS -- that's the ability to create out of structure that Cousins has been sorely lacking. Should put to rest the "first read only" line that was going around the day after the game. I do think he's a tick late with a couple of his decisions but he is getting through his reads. The video he's referencing: Jaren Hall Preseason Week 3 Analysis - The QB School https://youtu.be/Px2fS1TBGd4?si=B1sNSaZoq1hHcYrs Hall flashed some good things, but his overall results that game were one TD drive of more than 5 yards an interception and a mental error in the clutch. We will need him to step up so I hope he can.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 1:22:37 PM)
We will need him (Hall) to step up... More KG bull. Hall is simply a day 3 pick the regime is taking a chance on. Needing him implies he will be the guy or the regime is banking on him being the guy. That is not the case. In fact, KOC made note they are keeping three QBs due to the new NFL rule about QBs. Seems if not for that, there is a high probability Hall would not even be on the roster! So far your morning has been nothing but inaccuracies, no doubt because reality has hit you upside the head. And for what?? Hock is going to earn $16 million per over the next two years. $13 was fine, but $16 causes you to freak out?! Thank god you are not involved in a potentially pressure job like being a pilot. At the first sign of something going wrong, you'd freak. Fortunately, the co-pilot would slap the shit out of you and take the aircraft.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 1:37:16 PM)
Yeah I don't think the franchise wagon is hitched to Hall. Next year do what you have to do and get the guy you want in the draft. The franchise will go as he goes.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 1:41:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer Yeah I don't think the franchise wagon is hitched to Hall. Next year do what you have to do and get the guy you want in the draft. The franchise will go as he goes. Right. I'm glad he showed some signs in the last preseason game (better than Mond ever looked), but I doubt we're banking on a 5th round draft pick - even if the "QB Whisperer" hand chose him.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 1:42:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer SKOR North @SKORNorth · 9s PAY-DAY: #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson is now the highest-paid tight end in the NFL, signing a four-year $68.5 million contract extension with $42.5 million guaranteed. #SKOL Wow. I didn’t think he’d get that much money from us. And JJ is expected to set the market with his upcoming deal. All that is nothing. JJ is going to bust through $30 million a year as if it is rice paper. And just wait until Darrisaw is up. He's already drawn praise as the second best LT in the league. Untold tens of millions in dead cap. The D needs an talent boost. How people (not you) are having a come to Jesus moment regarding the pending UFA Cousins is beyond comprehension. Been saying this for a year... IF WE CHOOSE TO DO ALL THE ABOVE, WE WILL HAVE TO START A QB ON A ROOKIE DEAL. It might work. It might not work. But if it works... The payoff could be a Super Bowl. If it doesn't work... Who cares? One-and-done in the playoffs? I'm over it.

Ian Joseph -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 1:53:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Davenport signs for $13 million. Half of his salary is parked in a void year for cap purposes. Nary a peep. Hock signs for $3 million over market value and the sky is falling for one poster. This is and will be fun to watch! It actually isn't 3M over market value, it's 100K. Darren Waller signed his deal last year that pays him 17M. Hock's average is 17.1M. And while Hock makes more than Kelce, Andrews, etc., he won't for long. The contract is a good and fair one. Argue with your mom if you (anyone in general) feel different.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 1:55:53 PM)
Upcoming expenditures: JJ $35 per (est) Darrisaw $27 per (est) O'Neill $20 per through the end of 2026 Hock $16 per for a while Total: $98 2024 void year money: Hunter $15 Cousins $28.5 Davenport $7 Total: $50.5 That's a reasonably estimated $148.5 million for.... four players (if Darrisaw is extended next year). Bye bye Captain Kirk!

fmaltes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 1:56:24 PM)
Great signing for Hock. Now we need to take care of Jefferson. One thing we really need to understand is that the salary cap is really fantasy. You can pretty much spend however much you want if you are willing to keep pushing the cap it to the future. Please note that the annual salary cap will probably increase by double digit percentage increases the next couple of years. Also, market price is market price and will depend on the individual team needs. Some players are of greater value to a specific team so it is totally sensible for such a team to pay more. Players are heterogeneous goods, not like wheat or corn. Kirk Cousins is a very good QB and worth what he is being paid. He is extremely durable and that is a critical trait for a starting QB. Paying around $40 million a year for him is reasonable especially if it will only be for two or three years at most. That is Daniel Jones money. For those that don't like Kirk I have yet to see a real viable alternative presented. Tanking for Williams or Maye is unrealistic. And there clearly are not better options on the free agent market.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 2:03:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fmaltes Great signing for Hock. Now we need to take care of Jefferson. One thing we really need to understand is that the salary cap is really fantasy. You can pretty much spend however much you want if you are willing to keep pushing the cap it to the future. Please note that the annual salary cap will probably increase by double digit percentage increases the next couple of years. Also, market price is market price and will depend on the individual team needs. Some players are of greater value to a specific team so it is totally sensible for such a team to pay more. Players are heterogeneous goods, not like wheat or corn. Kirk Cousins is a very good QB and worth what he is being paid. He is extremely durable and that is a critical trait for a starting QB. Paying around $40 million a year for him is reasonable especially if it will only be for two or three years at most. That is Daniel Jones money. For those that don't like Kirk I have yet to see a real viable alternative presented. Tanking for Williams or Maye is unrealistic. And there clearly are not better options on the free agent market. OK, give Cousins $40 million next year. JJ 35 est Darrisaw 27 (est, if extended) O'Neill 20 Hock 16 Void 50 Cousins 40 $188 million. Current NFL cap: $225 million. Yeah that cap better go up.... and they best create void years for the existing void years.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 2:16:29 PM)
Here's a list of starting NFL QBs that no team "tanked for": Patrick Mahomes #10 Josh Allen #7 Justin Herbert #6 Lamar Jackson #32 Jalen Hurts #53 Dak Prescott #135 Aaron Rodgers #24 Tom Brady #199 Deshaun Watson #12 Kirk Cousins #102 Ryan Tannehill #8 Russell Wilson #75 Geno Smith #39 Daniel Jones #6 Derek Carr #36 Mac Jones #15 Kenny Pickett #20 Of these, four have won a Super Bowl and I'd say about half could have a chance at winning one (or a multilple). QBs that may have been "tanked for" Bryce Young CJ Stroud Anthony Richardson Joe Burrow Tua Kyler Murray Matt Stafford Jared Goff Baker Mayfield Carson Wentz Andrew Luck RGIII Mitch Trubisky Trevor Lawrence Zach Wilson Marcus Mariota Trey Lance Jameis Winston Blake Bortles Clearly there is no need to "tank" although if you're guy is going to go in the top five and you want to trade assets to get him don't let me stop you. Otherwise it appears a Super Bowl QB can come from any spot in the first round.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 2:26:06 PM)
And yes you can keep pushing cap to the future (for argument's sake, void years). Just accept that a fair percentage of cap will not be used for players actually on the roster. So that top guard that would have been nice to have signed and that CB we could have extended if we had the cap? Forget about it. Guess we can ask O'Neill to renegotiate for the 4th time to 'gain' a few million. Some void money makes sense, like if you are in a SB window or something. But in general, teams either have expensive QBs with sacrifices to the rest of the roster, or they have QBs on rookie contracts with freedom to sign projected top tier players as well as being able to keep their own best players.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 2:37:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer SKOR North @SKORNorth · 9s PAY-DAY: #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson is now the highest-paid tight end in the NFL, signing a four-year $68.5 million contract extension with $42.5 million guaranteed. #SKOL Wow. I didn’t think he’d get that much money from us. And JJ is expected to set the market with his upcoming deal. All that is nothing. JJ is going to bust through $30 million a year as if it is rice paper. And just wait until Darrisaw is up. He's already drawn praise as the second best LT in the league. Untold tens of millions in dead cap. The D needs an talent boost. How people (not you) are having a come to Jesus moment regarding the pending UFA Cousins is beyond comprehension. Been saying this for a year... IF WE CHOOSE TO DO ALL THE ABOVE, WE WILL HAVE TO START A QB ON A ROOKIE DEAL. It might work. It might not work. But if it works... The payoff could be a Super Bowl. If it doesn't work... Who cares? One-and-done in the playoffs? I'm over it. Who are we going to draft that is going to come in and set the NFL on fire his rookie year? We won't get a shot at Caleb. So who is it?

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 2:39:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Davenport signs for $13 million. Half of his salary is parked in a void year for cap purposes. Nary a peep. Hock signs for $3 million over market value and the sky is falling for one poster. This is and will be fun to watch! It actually isn't 3M over market value, it's 100K. Darren Waller signed his deal last year that pays him 17M. Hock's average is 17.1M. And while Hock makes more than Kelce, Andrews, etc., he won't for long. The contract is a good and fair one. Argue with your mom if you (anyone in general) feel different. Hock is not in the same realm as Waller at all. Waller has been doing it for years and averages more than 8 yards per reception. Spotrac had Hock's fair market value at 14.4.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 2:41:40 PM)
For 2024, what team out there has a $40 million 36 year old QB, near $50 million locked up in their two OTs, $50 million in void year dead cap, $25 million in TEs, and a $35 million WR? $200 million, and that's not counting a single defensive player.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 2:41:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fmaltes Great signing for Hock. Now we need to take care of Jefferson. One thing we really need to understand is that the salary cap is really fantasy. You can pretty much spend however much you want if you are willing to keep pushing the cap it to the future. Please note that the annual salary cap will probably increase by double digit percentage increases the next couple of years. Also, market price is market price and will depend on the individual team needs. Some players are of greater value to a specific team so it is totally sensible for such a team to pay more. Players are heterogeneous goods, not like wheat or corn. Kirk Cousins is a very good QB and worth what he is being paid. He is extremely durable and that is a critical trait for a starting QB. Paying around $40 million a year for him is reasonable especially if it will only be for two or three years at most. That is Daniel Jones money. For those that don't like Kirk I have yet to see a real viable alternative presented. Tanking for Williams or Maye is unrealistic. And there clearly are not better options on the free agent market. You are right about it being a great signing for Hock. About 3Million a year more than he should be getting. As for the rest of your post. [sm=dillydilly.jpg][sm=ditto.gif]

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 2:43:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer SKOR North @SKORNorth · 9s PAY-DAY: #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson is now the highest-paid tight end in the NFL, signing a four-year $68.5 million contract extension with $42.5 million guaranteed. #SKOL Wow. I didn’t think he’d get that much money from us. And JJ is expected to set the market with his upcoming deal. All that is nothing. JJ is going to bust through $30 million a year as if it is rice paper. And just wait until Darrisaw is up. He's already drawn praise as the second best LT in the league. Untold tens of millions in dead cap. The D needs an talent boost. How people (not you) are having a come to Jesus moment regarding the pending UFA Cousins is beyond comprehension. Been saying this for a year... IF WE CHOOSE TO DO ALL THE ABOVE, WE WILL HAVE TO START A QB ON A ROOKIE DEAL. It might work. It might not work. But if it works... The payoff could be a Super Bowl. If it doesn't work... Who cares? One-and-done in the playoffs? I'm over it. Who are we going to draft that is going to come in and set the NFL on fire his rookie year? We won't get a shot at Caleb. So who is it? Hopefully someone who can at least win more than one playoff game in 11 years.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 2:44:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Here's a list of starting NFL QBs that no team "tanked for": Patrick Mahomes #10 Josh Allen #7 Justin Herbert #6 Lamar Jackson #32 Jalen Hurts #53 Dak Prescott #135 Aaron Rodgers #24 Tom Brady #199 Deshaun Watson #12 Kirk Cousins #102 Ryan Tannehill #8 Russell Wilson #75 Geno Smith #39 Daniel Jones #6 Derek Carr #36 Mac Jones #15 Kenny Pickett #20 Of these, four have won a Super Bowl and I'd say about half could have a chance at winning one (or a multilple). QBs that may have been "tanked for" Bryce Young CJ Stroud Anthony Richardson Joe Burrow Tua Kyler Murray Matt Stafford Jared Goff Baker Mayfield Carson Wentz Andrew Luck RGIII Mitch Trubisky Trevor Lawrence Zach Wilson Marcus Mariota Trey Lance Jameis Winston Blake Bortles Clearly there is no need to "tank" although if you're guy is going to go in the top five and you want to trade assets to get him don't let me stop you. Otherwise it appears a Super Bowl QB can come from any spot in the first round. Of those QBs in the first group I like the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th ones. The first three were drafted earlier in the draft than the Vikings will be picking. Brady is retired and others are washed up. I guess we need to get pick 53 and it's a lock we get a Franchise QB. A Super Bowl QB can come from the 6th round. I know there's at least one that did. If you're banking on being the next team to draft one good luck with that.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 2:47:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Here's a list of starting NFL QBs that no team "tanked for": Patrick Mahomes #10 Josh Allen #7 Justin Herbert #6 Lamar Jackson #32 Jalen Hurts #53 Dak Prescott #135 Aaron Rodgers #24 Tom Brady #199 Deshaun Watson #12 Kirk Cousins #102 Ryan Tannehill #8 Russell Wilson #75 Geno Smith #39 Daniel Jones #6 Derek Carr #36 Mac Jones #15 Kenny Pickett #20 Of these, four have won a Super Bowl and I'd say about half could have a chance at winning one (or a multilple). QBs that may have been "tanked for" Bryce Young CJ Stroud Anthony Richardson Joe Burrow Tua Kyler Murray Matt Stafford Jared Goff Baker Mayfield Carson Wentz Andrew Luck RGIII Mitch Trubisky Trevor Lawrence Zach Wilson Marcus Mariota Trey Lance Jameis Winston Blake Bortles Clearly there is no need to "tank" although if you're guy is going to go in the top five and you want to trade assets to get him don't let me stop you. Otherwise it appears a Super Bowl QB can come from any spot in the first round. Good post and the draft positions help. Agree about moving up; it's not an absolute must but may be warranted.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 2:49:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Here's a list of starting NFL QBs that no team "tanked for": Patrick Mahomes #10 Josh Allen #7 Justin Herbert #6 Lamar Jackson #32 Jalen Hurts #53 Dak Prescott #135 Aaron Rodgers #24 Tom Brady #199 Deshaun Watson #12 Kirk Cousins #102 Ryan Tannehill #8 Russell Wilson #75 Geno Smith #39 Daniel Jones #6 Derek Carr #36 Mac Jones #15 Kenny Pickett #20 Of these, four have won a Super Bowl and I'd say about half could have a chance at winning one (or a multilple). QBs that may have been "tanked for" Bryce Young CJ Stroud Anthony Richardson Joe Burrow Tua Kyler Murray Matt Stafford Jared Goff Baker Mayfield Carson Wentz Andrew Luck RGIII Mitch Trubisky Trevor Lawrence Zach Wilson Marcus Mariota Trey Lance Jameis Winston Blake Bortles Clearly there is no need to "tank" although if you're guy is going to go in the top five and you want to trade assets to get him don't let me stop you. Otherwise it appears a Super Bowl QB can come from any spot in the first round. Of those QBs in the first group I like the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th ones. The first three were drafted earlier in the draft than the Vikings will be picking. Brady is retired and others are washed up. I guess we need to get pick 53 and it's a lock we get a Franchise QB. A Super Bowl QB can come from the 6th round. I know there's at least one that did. If you're banking on being the next team to draft one good luck with that. You just got through saying our 5th rounder needs to step up. So YOU are the one banking on late rounders! Good luck with that!

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