RE: General Vikes Talk

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Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 2:52:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer SKOR North @SKORNorth · 9s PAY-DAY: #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson is now the highest-paid tight end in the NFL, signing a four-year $68.5 million contract extension with $42.5 million guaranteed. #SKOL Wow. I didn’t think he’d get that much money from us. And JJ is expected to set the market with his upcoming deal. All that is nothing. JJ is going to bust through $30 million a year as if it is rice paper. And just wait until Darrisaw is up. He's already drawn praise as the second best LT in the league. Untold tens of millions in dead cap. The D needs an talent boost. How people (not you) are having a come to Jesus moment regarding the pending UFA Cousins is beyond comprehension. Been saying this for a year... IF WE CHOOSE TO DO ALL THE ABOVE, WE WILL HAVE TO START A QB ON A ROOKIE DEAL. It might work. It might not work. But if it works... The payoff could be a Super Bowl. If it doesn't work... Who cares? One-and-done in the playoffs? I'm over it. Who are we going to draft that is going to come in and set the NFL on fire his rookie year? We won't get a shot at Caleb. So who is it? Cousins hasn't set the world on fire so why is that a requirement?

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 2:54:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer SKOR North @SKORNorth · 9s PAY-DAY: #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson is now the highest-paid tight end in the NFL, signing a four-year $68.5 million contract extension with $42.5 million guaranteed. #SKOL Wow. I didn’t think he’d get that much money from us. And JJ is expected to set the market with his upcoming deal. All that is nothing. JJ is going to bust through $30 million a year as if it is rice paper. And just wait until Darrisaw is up. He's already drawn praise as the second best LT in the league. Untold tens of millions in dead cap. The D needs an talent boost. How people (not you) are having a come to Jesus moment regarding the pending UFA Cousins is beyond comprehension. Been saying this for a year... IF WE CHOOSE TO DO ALL THE ABOVE, WE WILL HAVE TO START A QB ON A ROOKIE DEAL. It might work. It might not work. But if it works... The payoff could be a Super Bowl. If it doesn't work... Who cares? One-and-done in the playoffs? I'm over it. Who are we going to draft that is going to come in and set the NFL on fire his rookie year? We won't get a shot at Caleb. So who is it? Cousins hasn't set the world on fire so why is that a requirement? Not to mention he was again premature (yuck). Maybe let the college season play out to see who is out there before going all chicken little?

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 3:00:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Here's a list of starting NFL QBs that no team "tanked for": Patrick Mahomes #10 Josh Allen #7 Justin Herbert #6 Lamar Jackson #32 Jalen Hurts #53 Dak Prescott #135 Aaron Rodgers #24 Tom Brady #199 Deshaun Watson #12 Kirk Cousins #102 Ryan Tannehill #8 Russell Wilson #75 Geno Smith #39 Daniel Jones #6 Derek Carr #36 Mac Jones #15 Kenny Pickett #20 Of these, four have won a Super Bowl and I'd say about half could have a chance at winning one (or a multilple). QBs that may have been "tanked for" Bryce Young CJ Stroud Anthony Richardson Joe Burrow Tua Kyler Murray Matt Stafford Jared Goff Baker Mayfield Carson Wentz Andrew Luck RGIII Mitch Trubisky Trevor Lawrence Zach Wilson Marcus Mariota Trey Lance Jameis Winston Blake Bortles Clearly there is no need to "tank" although if you're guy is going to go in the top five and you want to trade assets to get him don't let me stop you. Otherwise it appears a Super Bowl QB can come from any spot in the first round. Of those QBs in the first group I like the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th ones. The first three were drafted earlier in the draft than the Vikings will be picking. Brady is retired and others are washed up. I guess we need to get pick 53 and it's a lock we get a Franchise QB. A Super Bowl QB can come from the 6th round. I know there's at least one that did. If you're banking on being the next team to draft one good luck with that. One of the points I was trying to get across was that, at least in some point in time, every name in that first list was an unknown. Fast forward in time and now they are household names at starting QB. Yes, the list is bigger for those drafted and never made it. We still have to try though.

Ian Joseph -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 3:14:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Davenport signs for $13 million. Half of his salary is parked in a void year for cap purposes. Nary a peep. Hock signs for $3 million over market value and the sky is falling for one poster. This is and will be fun to watch! It actually isn't 3M over market value, it's 100K. Darren Waller signed his deal last year that pays him 17M. Hock's average is 17.1M. And while Hock makes more than Kelce, Andrews, etc., he won't for long. The contract is a good and fair one. Argue with your mom if you (anyone in general) feel different. Hock is not in the same realm as Waller at all. Waller has been doing it for years and averages more than 8 yards per reception. Spotrac had Hock's fair market value at 14.4. You sure about that? Darren Waller's stats in 2021 and 2022. 2021 - 55 rec 665 yards 2 TDs 2022 - 28 rec 388 yards 3 TDs You might want to adjust your thought process. Then again, had you actually looked at Spotrac for game stats rather than what they told you what Hock was worth, the bucket of water that represents your argument would actually have a bottom. As it stands, you're walking around, holding a hole with a handle.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 3:24:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Davenport signs for $13 million. Half of his salary is parked in a void year for cap purposes. Nary a peep. Hock signs for $3 million over market value and the sky is falling for one poster. This is and will be fun to watch! It actually isn't 3M over market value, it's 100K. Darren Waller signed his deal last year that pays him 17M. Hock's average is 17.1M. And while Hock makes more than Kelce, Andrews, etc., he won't for long. The contract is a good and fair one. Argue with your mom if you (anyone in general) feel different. Hock is not in the same realm as Waller at all. Waller has been doing it for years and averages more than 8 yards per reception. Spotrac had Hock's fair market value at 14.4. You sure about that? Darren Waller's stats in 2021 and 2022. 2021 - 55 rec 665 yards 2 TDs 2022 - 28 rec 388 yards 3 TDs You might want to adjust your thought process. Then again, had you actually looked at Spotrac for game stats rather than what they told you what Hock was worth, the bucket of water that represents your argument would actually have a bottom. As it stands, you're walking around, holding a hole with a handle. Waller is 30 years old and has had only 2 good years in his career (2019 and 2020). Waller (30), Career: 8 Years, 74 Games, 298 Receptions, 3572 Yards, 19 TDs. Hock (25), Career: 4 Years, 57 Games, 246 Receptions, 2587 Yards, 18 TDs.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 3:56:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer SKOR North @SKORNorth · 9s PAY-DAY: #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson is now the highest-paid tight end in the NFL, signing a four-year $68.5 million contract extension with $42.5 million guaranteed. #SKOL Wow. I didn’t think he’d get that much money from us. And JJ is expected to set the market with his upcoming deal. All that is nothing. JJ is going to bust through $30 million a year as if it is rice paper. And just wait until Darrisaw is up. He's already drawn praise as the second best LT in the league. Untold tens of millions in dead cap. The D needs an talent boost. How people (not you) are having a come to Jesus moment regarding the pending UFA Cousins is beyond comprehension. Been saying this for a year... IF WE CHOOSE TO DO ALL THE ABOVE, WE WILL HAVE TO START A QB ON A ROOKIE DEAL. It might work. It might not work. But if it works... The payoff could be a Super Bowl. If it doesn't work... Who cares? One-and-done in the playoffs? I'm over it. Who are we going to draft that is going to come in and set the NFL on fire his rookie year? We won't get a shot at Caleb. So who is it? Cousins hasn't set the world on fire so why is that a requirement? Pretty darn good. OK I'll settle for who we can draft that can come in and be pretty darn good his rookie year?

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 3:58:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Here's a list of starting NFL QBs that no team "tanked for": Patrick Mahomes #10 Josh Allen #7 Justin Herbert #6 Lamar Jackson #32 Jalen Hurts #53 Dak Prescott #135 Aaron Rodgers #24 Tom Brady #199 Deshaun Watson #12 Kirk Cousins #102 Ryan Tannehill #8 Russell Wilson #75 Geno Smith #39 Daniel Jones #6 Derek Carr #36 Mac Jones #15 Kenny Pickett #20 Of these, four have won a Super Bowl and I'd say about half could have a chance at winning one (or a multilple). QBs that may have been "tanked for" Bryce Young CJ Stroud Anthony Richardson Joe Burrow Tua Kyler Murray Matt Stafford Jared Goff Baker Mayfield Carson Wentz Andrew Luck RGIII Mitch Trubisky Trevor Lawrence Zach Wilson Marcus Mariota Trey Lance Jameis Winston Blake Bortles Clearly there is no need to "tank" although if you're guy is going to go in the top five and you want to trade assets to get him don't let me stop you. Otherwise it appears a Super Bowl QB can come from any spot in the first round. Of those QBs in the first group I like the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th ones. The first three were drafted earlier in the draft than the Vikings will be picking. Brady is retired and others are washed up. I guess we need to get pick 53 and it's a lock we get a Franchise QB. A Super Bowl QB can come from the 6th round. I know there's at least one that did. If you're banking on being the next team to draft one good luck with that. One of the points I was trying to get across was that, at least in some point in time, every name in that first list was an unknown. Fast forward in time and now they are household names at starting QB. Yes, the list is bigger for those drafted and never made it. We still have to try though. My thinking is when we have a very good QB fully capable of winning a Super Bowl why try to draft another. Get players that will be much more sure things with those high draft picks.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 4:00:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Davenport signs for $13 million. Half of his salary is parked in a void year for cap purposes. Nary a peep. Hock signs for $3 million over market value and the sky is falling for one poster. This is and will be fun to watch! It actually isn't 3M over market value, it's 100K. Darren Waller signed his deal last year that pays him 17M. Hock's average is 17.1M. And while Hock makes more than Kelce, Andrews, etc., he won't for long. The contract is a good and fair one. Argue with your mom if you (anyone in general) feel different. Hock is not in the same realm as Waller at all. Waller has been doing it for years and averages more than 8 yards per reception. Spotrac had Hock's fair market value at 14.4. You sure about that? Darren Waller's stats in 2021 and 2022. 2021 - 55 rec 665 yards 2 TDs 2022 - 28 rec 388 yards 3 TDs You might want to adjust your thought process. Then again, had you actually looked at Spotrac for game stats rather than what they told you what Hock was worth, the bucket of water that represents your argument would actually have a bottom. As it stands, you're walking around, holding a hole with a handle. Waller is 30 years old and has had only 2 good years in his career (2019 and 2020). Waller (30), Career: 8 Years, 74 Games, 298 Receptions, 3572 Yards, 19 TDs. Hock (25), Career: 4 Years, 57 Games, 246 Receptions, 2587 Yards, 18 TDs. OK I admit I was going off when I last watched Waller and he was amazing. He still averaged 12 and 14 yards per reception those last two years to Hocks 8 while with us. He must have been injured last year or he would have had more than 28 receptions. That said seems he's not as good as I thought. I also admit to being pissed off about Hock and his fake injuries. Hock's receptions went way up when he joined us as we gave him a huge number or short yardage targets. I still think Hock is a very poor way to invest our limited salary cap.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 4:13:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Davenport signs for $13 million. Half of his salary is parked in a void year for cap purposes. Nary a peep. Hock signs for $3 million over market value and the sky is falling for one poster. This is and will be fun to watch! It actually isn't 3M over market value, it's 100K. Darren Waller signed his deal last year that pays him 17M. Hock's average is 17.1M. And while Hock makes more than Kelce, Andrews, etc., he won't for long. The contract is a good and fair one. Argue with your mom if you (anyone in general) feel different. Hock is not in the same realm as Waller at all. Waller has been doing it for years and averages more than 8 yards per reception. Spotrac had Hock's fair market value at 14.4. You sure about that? Darren Waller's stats in 2021 and 2022. 2021 - 55 rec 665 yards 2 TDs 2022 - 28 rec 388 yards 3 TDs You might want to adjust your thought process. Then again, had you actually looked at Spotrac for game stats rather than what they told you what Hock was worth, the bucket of water that represents your argument would actually have a bottom. As it stands, you're walking around, holding a hole with a handle. Waller is 30 years old and has had only 2 good years in his career (2019 and 2020). Waller (30), Career: 8 Years, 74 Games, 298 Receptions, 3572 Yards, 19 TDs. Hock (25), Career: 4 Years, 57 Games, 246 Receptions, 2587 Yards, 18 TDs. OK I admit I was going off when I last watched Waller and he was amazing. He still averaged 12 and 14 yards per reception those last two years to Hocks 8 while with us. He must have been injured last year or he would have had more than 28 receptions. That said seems he's not as good as I thought. I also admit to being pissed off about Hock and his fake injuries. Hock's receptions went way up when he joined us as we gave him a huge number or short yardage targets. I still think Hock is a very poor way to invest our limited salary cap. Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 4:16:46 PM)
Hock caught so many passes for us last year because we used him as a short yardage safety blanket and nothing wrong with that. So now that he's signed what do we do with Mundt and Muse. They will barely see the field. Let's trade somebody.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 4:18:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Davenport signs for $13 million. Half of his salary is parked in a void year for cap purposes. Nary a peep. Hock signs for $3 million over market value and the sky is falling for one poster. This is and will be fun to watch! It actually isn't 3M over market value, it's 100K. Darren Waller signed his deal last year that pays him 17M. Hock's average is 17.1M. And while Hock makes more than Kelce, Andrews, etc., he won't for long. The contract is a good and fair one. Argue with your mom if you (anyone in general) feel different. Hock is not in the same realm as Waller at all. Waller has been doing it for years and averages more than 8 yards per reception. Spotrac had Hock's fair market value at 14.4. You sure about that? Darren Waller's stats in 2021 and 2022. 2021 - 55 rec 665 yards 2 TDs 2022 - 28 rec 388 yards 3 TDs You might want to adjust your thought process. Then again, had you actually looked at Spotrac for game stats rather than what they told you what Hock was worth, the bucket of water that represents your argument would actually have a bottom. As it stands, you're walking around, holding a hole with a handle. Waller is 30 years old and has had only 2 good years in his career (2019 and 2020). Waller (30), Career: 8 Years, 74 Games, 298 Receptions, 3572 Yards, 19 TDs. Hock (25), Career: 4 Years, 57 Games, 246 Receptions, 2587 Yards, 18 TDs. OK I admit I was going off when I last watched Waller and he was amazing. He still averaged 12 and 14 yards per reception those last two years to Hocks 8 while with us. He must have been injured last year or he would have had more than 28 receptions. That said seems he's not as good as I thought. I also admit to being pissed off about Hock and his fake injuries. Hock's receptions went way up when he joined us as we gave him a huge number or short yardage targets. I still think Hock is a very poor way to invest our limited salary cap. Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem. His high number of catches way higher than ever before is also attributable to Kirk. He became Kirk's short yardage safety blanket and there's nothing wrong with that. Regardless I'm done whining about him. I don't think we signed him to trade him (but I can dream). So what's next?

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 4:27:42 PM)
Hock talks about how thrilled he is to have his new contract and of course he is. He talks about what a brotherhood the Vikings are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6PH1wg6x6I

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 4:28:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem. Yup. He went from 15.2 with Detroit to 8.7 with us. He averaged 11 for his 4 years with Detroit, so he's definitely capable of stretching the field more.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 4:34:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem. Yup. He went from 15.2 with Detroit to 8.7 with us. He averaged 11 for his 4 years with Detroit, so he's definitely capable of stretching the field more. Det. wishes it had our prob at receivers right now is my guess - and wouldnt it be an O'Connell problem as well?

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 4:35:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem. Yup. He went from 15.2 with Detroit to 8.7 with us. He averaged 11 for his 4 years with Detroit, so he's definitely capable of stretching the field more. Det. wishes it had our prob at receivers right now is my guess - and wouldnt O'Connell problem as well? Absolutely. I like him a lot, but I was more than a little underwhelmed with his playcalling. And that was compounded by Kirk being a guy who will not go "off script".

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 4:37:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem. Yup. He went from 15.2 with Detroit to 8.7 with us. He averaged 11 for his 4 years with Detroit, so he's definitely capable of stretching the field more. Det. wishes it had our prob at receivers right now is my guess - and wouldnt O'Connell problem as well? Absolutely. I like him a lot, but I was more than a little underwhelmed with his playcalling. And that was compounded by Kirk being a guy who will not go "off script". Well, I have to believe year 2 will be much better - I mean, if there isn't a lot of growth between year 1 and 2 you might as well switch coaches right now

Nate -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 5:04:55 PM)
I like Hock, but dang that's a load of cash. I'd rather invest in WR/OL and eventually our QBOTF (not KFC) than pay top dollar for a TE, but, oh well, at least we keep that weapon locked up for a while. Once the other top TEs get paid I'm sure it'll eventually look like a great contract. In any case, I'd say I'm as clueless to how this year will go as any year I can remember in the last decade. The pessimist Viking in me thinks we'll regress to 8 or 9 wins. That's a tough schedule and I think last year we benefited from a refreshing new batch of positivity after the bitter last years of Zimmer. I think that message will be a little less new this year and we'll lose some of those close ones. I hope the D is better, I like the scheme loads better but we didn't gain much talent and lost a lot of experience. I still think we get bullied in the trenches and have to blitz a ton more to stop the run and get pressure on the passer, which exposes our really young secondary. Offensively, our IOL is still weak, and I'm flabbergasted as to why we didn't go for some competition there. Continuity can be great but why would anyone want to continue with that? I'm not a 12 personnel fan, and think our 2TE sets will bring more crowding of the line and be hard to run against and will overmatch our line. I think we're at our best in 11 personnel, particularly when we're behind because we open it up more and look downfield to score rather than run clock and wear the other team down. There's always hope to start the year though. We still have an above average offense if we can keep Kirk upright and the defense could pleasantly surprise us. Sometimes coaching can do wonders. I hope KoC improves along with the team, he's very likeable to say the least. KAM, I'm souring on but maybe he'll grow into it too. That 2022 draft is looking worse and worse, we'll see how 2023 pans out. Here's to a fun year though, maybe we'll go for another fun ride like last year, even if it did end like usual. Cheers all and SKOL Vikes!!

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 5:20:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem. Yup. He went from 15.2 with Detroit to 8.7 with us. He averaged 11 for his 4 years with Detroit, so he's definitely capable of stretching the field more. Det. wishes it had our prob at receivers right now is my guess - and wouldnt O'Connell problem as well? Absolutely. I like him a lot, but I was more than a little underwhelmed with his playcalling. And that was compounded by Kirk being a guy who will not go "off script". Well, I have to believe year 2 will be much better - I mean, if there isn't a lot of growth between year 1 and 2 you might as well switch coaches right now Or switch QBs. KOC is wearing a ring. KC, not so much.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 5:25:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nate I like Hock, but dang that's a load of cash. I'd rather invest in WR/OL and eventually our QBOTF (not KFC) than pay top dollar for a TE, but, oh well, at least we keep that weapon locked up for a while. Once the other top TEs get paid I'm sure it'll eventually look like a great contract. In any case, I'd say I'm as clueless to how this year will go as any year I can remember in the last decade. The pessimist Viking in me thinks we'll regress to 8 or 9 wins. That's a tough schedule and I think last year we benefited from a refreshing new batch of positivity after the bitter last years of Zimmer. I think that message will be a little less new this year and we'll lose some of those close ones. I hope the D is better, I like the scheme loads better but we didn't gain much talent and lost a lot of experience. I still think we get bullied in the trenches and have to blitz a ton more to stop the run and get pressure on the passer, which exposes our really young secondary. Offensively, our IOL is still weak, and I'm flabbergasted as to why we didn't go for some competition there. Continuity can be great but why would anyone want to continue with that? I'm not a 12 personnel fan, and think our 2TE sets will bring more crowding of the line and be hard to run against and will overmatch our line. I think we're at our best in 11 personnel, particularly when we're behind because we open it up more and look downfield to score rather than run clock and wear the other team down. There's always hope to start the year though. We still have an above average offense if we can keep Kirk upright and the defense could pleasantly surprise us. Sometimes coaching can do wonders. I hope KoC improves along with the team, he's very likeable to say the least. KAM, I'm souring on but maybe he'll grow into it too. That 2022 draft is looking worse and worse, we'll see how 2023 pans out. Here's to a fun year though, maybe we'll go for another fun ride like last year, even if it did end like usual. Cheers all and SKOL Vikes!! That should be the post that transitions from the offseason to the regular season. It's about that time!

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 5:52:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem. Yup. He went from 15.2 with Detroit to 8.7 with us. He averaged 11 for his 4 years with Detroit, so he's definitely capable of stretching the field more. Det. wishes it had our prob at receivers right now is my guess - and wouldnt O'Connell problem as well? Absolutely. I like him a lot, but I was more than a little underwhelmed with his playcalling. And that was compounded by Kirk being a guy who will not go "off script". Well, I have to believe year 2 will be much better - I mean, if there isn't a lot of growth between year 1 and 2 you might as well switch coaches right now Or switch QBs. KOC is wearing a ring. KC, not so much. Didn't call the plays to get that ring through did he? My wife has a first cousin who worked as a PR person for the Bulls for years. She has as many rings and Jordon does.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 6:08:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem. Yup. He went from 15.2 with Detroit to 8.7 with us. He averaged 11 for his 4 years with Detroit, so he's definitely capable of stretching the field more. Det. wishes it had our prob at receivers right now is my guess - and wouldnt O'Connell problem as well? Absolutely. I like him a lot, but I was more than a little underwhelmed with his playcalling. And that was compounded by Kirk being a guy who will not go "off script". Well, I have to believe year 2 will be much better - I mean, if there isn't a lot of growth between year 1 and 2 you might as well switch coaches right now Or switch QBs. KOC is wearing a ring. KC, not so much. Didn't call the plays to get that ring through did he? My wife has a first cousin who worked as a PR person for the Bulls for years. She has as many rings and Jordon does. As one broken record speaking to another broken record ... Apples and oranges. Your wife's cousin was a bystander, KOC was very involved in how the offense performed even if he didn't call the plays. How much did he contribute? Not really sure. But he gets a lot of credit from the head coach and the league though. And Vikings fans when it suits them. And how well did Stafford do after O'Connell left?

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 6:20:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem. Yup. He went from 15.2 with Detroit to 8.7 with us. He averaged 11 for his 4 years with Detroit, so he's definitely capable of stretching the field more. Det. wishes it had our prob at receivers right now is my guess - and wouldnt O'Connell problem as well? Absolutely. I like him a lot, but I was more than a little underwhelmed with his playcalling. And that was compounded by Kirk being a guy who will not go "off script". Well, I have to believe year 2 will be much better - I mean, if there isn't a lot of growth between year 1 and 2 you might as well switch coaches right now Or switch QBs. KOC is wearing a ring. KC, not so much. Didn't call the plays to get that ring through did he? My wife has a first cousin who worked as a PR person for the Bulls for years. She has as many rings and Jordon does. No, but Cousins has not led a single team beyond one playoff win over 11 years, has he? Fail! And you talk endlessly about "year two" in KOC's system as if that is some magical way to Cousins finally getting - to lower the bar - two playoff wins. Which is it? Bottomline is KOC is signed. Conversely, your love fest QB will be a UFA unless the regime strikes out in a replacement and there is a come to Jesus meeting over a tremendously lower salary negotiation.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 6:21:45 PM)
Was O'Connell leaving the only change... of course not. Same playcaller the next year though. There's more to it than that.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 6:27:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem. Yup. He went from 15.2 with Detroit to 8.7 with us. He averaged 11 for his 4 years with Detroit, so he's definitely capable of stretching the field more. Det. wishes it had our prob at receivers right now is my guess - and wouldnt O'Connell problem as well? Absolutely. I like him a lot, but I was more than a little underwhelmed with his playcalling. And that was compounded by Kirk being a guy who will not go "off script". Well, I have to believe year 2 will be much better - I mean, if there isn't a lot of growth between year 1 and 2 you might as well switch coaches right now Or switch QBs. KOC is wearing a ring. KC, not so much. Didn't call the plays to get that ring through did he? My wife has a first cousin who worked as a PR person for the Bulls for years. She has as many rings and Jordon does. As one broken record speaking to another broken record ... Apples and oranges. Your wife's cousin was a bystander, KOC was very involved in how the offense performed even if he didn't call the plays. How much did he contribute? Not really sure. But he gets a lot of credit from the head coach and the league though. And Vikings fans when it suits them. And how well did Stafford do after O'Connell left? Who cares? Cousins is gone after this year. You and others think he will stay. He is gone. I know you don't have a strong emotional interest in him, but a couple of others need to deal with it. And Kwesi Adofo-Mensah will send Cousins packing!

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/31/2023 6:28:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem. Yup. He went from 15.2 with Detroit to 8.7 with us. He averaged 11 for his 4 years with Detroit, so he's definitely capable of stretching the field more. Det. wishes it had our prob at receivers right now is my guess - and wouldnt O'Connell problem as well? Absolutely. I like him a lot, but I was more than a little underwhelmed with his playcalling. And that was compounded by Kirk being a guy who will not go "off script". Well, I have to believe year 2 will be much better - I mean, if there isn't a lot of growth between year 1 and 2 you might as well switch coaches right now Or switch QBs. KOC is wearing a ring. KC, not so much. Didn't call the plays to get that ring through did he? My wife has a first cousin who worked as a PR person for the Bulls for years. She has as many rings and Jordon does. No, but Cousins has not led a single team beyond one playoff win over 11 years, has he? Fail! Bottomline is KOC is signed. Conversely, your love fest QB will be a UFA unless the regime strikes out in a replacement and there is a come to Jesus meeting over a tremendously lower salary negotiation. I think the second time I brought up "if only we would of had a better defense" you jumped all over my ass about repeating myself. What are you on about 37 times you're going to tell us how many playoff games Cousins' has won? Well maybe it will be different this year, Bill. Maybe! And maybe F not. Whatever!

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