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marty -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 7:38:41 PM)
McCarthy looks to me like he might have what it takes, but similar to Anthony Richardson, he is really raw as far as the number and types of throws he has made. McCarthy seems effective in the 4th quarter, where rockets are usually needed, and the WRs will usually hang on to those passes in a close game. But earlier in the game, he needs to learn to take something off of certain throws, have the proper arc, and lead the WR on certain throws, things that Tom Brady talked about during the telecast. KOC works well with pocket passers, until those pocket passers go up against defenses that might require them going off script (which Darnold struggled with today). Either KOC doesn't want McCarthy running on occasion to keep defenses honest, or McCarthy is choosing to stick to the play drawn up, choosing not to go off script. Chicago won the time of possession, mostly because Ben Johnson had Caleb dinking and dunking, or running the ball a lot, usually setting him up with very safe throws, or because Caleb is quick enough to go off script and either avoid the rush, or run for a 1st down.

Arlowe84 -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 7:40:08 PM)
I'm sorry, but all this Payton Manning, Josh Allen non-sense is just that non-sense. The reality is most QBs fail at the QB position. it is incredibly hard. Those guy talents were completely different. Manning was one of the most prolific college passers of all time. Josh Allen did not take football seriously until he was in college. JJ McCarthy played on a team with an elite D and running game, and threw the ball very little There were all sorts of questions on his ability to throw on the NFL level. He was not a unanimous 1st round talent. Vies were very mixed on him. He performed relatively well at the combine, which I think comforted some folks on his actual talent. My problem, is he is like a ball of clay, he was easily the most unrefined of all the QBs taken. Not sure why they thought they could win in his first year of starting. They have not cleaned up really anything with him. He seems very uncomfortable in the pocket, for some reason like to take a short hop forward before he throws causing all sorts of accuracy issues. I thought it was worth the pick because you just gotta have that franchise QB, but there are some real red flags right now.

Arlowe84 -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 7:42:33 PM)
I'm still amazed they don't use JJ like Peyton uses Nix, of roll outs and short easy throws. They cover up some of his deficiencies, KOC covers up none of JJs. KOC says they gotta see what they got, but he loses his confidence, good luck

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 7:43:49 PM)
I think the Bears' big return would have been less likely if the Vikings had run the ball on the 1st down, and gotten their TD with 25 seconds, or 15 seconds left. The momentun would have felt differently, and I think the Vikings would have done a better job of covering the return, or even kicking it out of the end zone. And it's also possible the Bears don't even have a chance for a return, had the Vikings run the ball the play right after the Nailor 1st down. I think the Bears likely would have stopped the Vikings a couple of times, but it was 4 down territory, and the Vikings would have found a way to get a TD.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 7:45:52 PM)
Yes, KOC doesn't seem to do a QB that has speed and mobility any favors.

beo -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 7:46:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arlowe84 I'm still amazed they don't use JJ like Peyton uses Nix, of roll outs and short easy throws. They cover up some of his deficiencies, KOC covers up none of JJs. KOC says they gotta see what they got, but he loses his confidence, good luck I think it's because Nix's strong suit is quick game. JJM's supposedly is/was medium middle of the field passes. KOC may be calling a game suited to JJM's "strengths"... which is doubly concerning. I had a LOT of issues with playcalling against the Ravens. I thought KOC called a really good game today.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 7:47:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arlowe84 I'm sorry, but all this Payton Manning, Josh Allen non-sense is just that non-sense. The reality is most QBs fail at the QB position. it is incredibly hard. Those guy talents were completely different. Manning was one of the most prolific college passers of all time. Josh Allen did not take football seriously until he was in college. JJ McCarthy played on a team with an elite D and running game, and threw the ball very little There were all sorts of questions on his ability to throw on the NFL level. He was not a unanimous 1st round talent. Vies were very mixed on him. He performed relatively well at the combine, which I think comforted some folks on his actual talent. My problem, is he is like a ball of clay, he was easily the most unrefined of all the QBs taken. Not sure why they thought they could win in his first year of starting. They have not cleaned up really anything with him. He seems very uncomfortable in the pocket, for some reason like to take a short hop forward before he throws causing all sorts of accuracy issues. I thought it was worth the pick because you just gotta have that franchise QB, but there are some real red flags right now. Where was the Josh Allen, Peyton Manning talk?

Arlowe84 -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 7:48:06 PM)
10 draft picks next year, some vets gonna be gone after this year, but man, I don't feel good about KAM and Grigson with this thing. This year was just a massive mis-management of things, and overestimate of JJ being ready to play QB in the NFL Absolute joke that Hockensen is getting McBride/Kittle money. Should have almost been a fire-able offense to give him that contract. Watch some of these teams, we must have the slowest S group in the NFL Lordy, get some speed back there.

beo -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 7:48:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marty I think the Bears' big return would have been less likely if the Vikings had run the ball on the 1st down, and gotten their TD with 25 seconds, or 15 seconds left. The momentun would have felt differently, and I think the Vikings would have done a better job of covering the return, or even kicking it out of the end zone. And it's also possible the Bears don't even have a chance for a return, had the Vikings run the ball the play right after the Nailor 1st down. I think the Bears likely would have stopped the Vikings a couple of times, but it was 4 down territory, and the Vikings would have found a way to get a TD. The idea that you are going to script run,run,run and then pass for TD with the way JJM had been playing is fantasy. They scored. They needed special teams to do their job. Didn't happen.

Arlowe84 -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 7:49:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Arlowe84 I'm sorry, but all this Payton Manning, Josh Allen non-sense is just that non-sense. The reality is most QBs fail at the QB position. it is incredibly hard. Those guy talents were completely different. Manning was one of the most prolific college passers of all time. Josh Allen did not take football seriously until he was in college. JJ McCarthy played on a team with an elite D and running game, and threw the ball very little There were all sorts of questions on his ability to throw on the NFL level. He was not a unanimous 1st round talent. Vies were very mixed on him. He performed relatively well at the combine, which I think comforted some folks on his actual talent. My problem, is he is like a ball of clay, he was easily the most unrefined of all the QBs taken. Not sure why they thought they could win in his first year of starting. They have not cleaned up really anything with him. He seems very uncomfortable in the pocket, for some reason like to take a short hop forward before he throws causing all sorts of accuracy issues. I thought it was worth the pick because you just gotta have that franchise QB, but there are some real red flags right now. Where was the Josh Allen, Peyton Manning talk? All over social media, peoples best argument for letting a QB "develop"

beo -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 7:52:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arlowe84 quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Arlowe84 I'm sorry, but all this Payton Manning, Josh Allen non-sense is just that non-sense. The reality is most QBs fail at the QB position. it is incredibly hard. Those guy talents were completely different. Manning was one of the most prolific college passers of all time. Josh Allen did not take football seriously until he was in college. JJ McCarthy played on a team with an elite D and running game, and threw the ball very little There were all sorts of questions on his ability to throw on the NFL level. He was not a unanimous 1st round talent. Vies were very mixed on him. He performed relatively well at the combine, which I think comforted some folks on his actual talent. My problem, is he is like a ball of clay, he was easily the most unrefined of all the QBs taken. Not sure why they thought they could win in his first year of starting. They have not cleaned up really anything with him. He seems very uncomfortable in the pocket, for some reason like to take a short hop forward before he throws causing all sorts of accuracy issues. I thought it was worth the pick because you just gotta have that franchise QB, but there are some real red flags right now. Where was the Josh Allen, Peyton Manning talk? All over social media, peoples best argument for letting a QB "develop" Josh Allen, Peyton Manning... yeah probably nonesense. But Darnold/Bo Nix... you would have swore both those guys had no chance of becoming good QBs in their first 1/2 dozen games. So it's hard to say.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 7:53:33 PM)
So in his first high-leverage game (to borrow a baseball term) this year, the great Sam Darnold throws 0 TDs and 4 Ints? LMFAO. As bad as the last two high-leverage games before that! The 1000 yard stare, updated from Vietnam when real bullets were flying. Choke artist personified. Smart Seahawks fans are saying, yep, par for the course. Brad and his 14-3 (aka 0-2). Mr. QB Stats. Totally ignores the "IT" factor for the singularly most important position in team sports worldwide. Anyone with a shred of football knowledge would see that.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 7:54:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arlowe84 quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Arlowe84 I'm sorry, but all this Payton Manning, Josh Allen non-sense is just that non-sense. The reality is most QBs fail at the QB position. it is incredibly hard. Those guy talents were completely different. Manning was one of the most prolific college passers of all time. Josh Allen did not take football seriously until he was in college. JJ McCarthy played on a team with an elite D and running game, and threw the ball very little There were all sorts of questions on his ability to throw on the NFL level. He was not a unanimous 1st round talent. Vies were very mixed on him. He performed relatively well at the combine, which I think comforted some folks on his actual talent. My problem, is he is like a ball of clay, he was easily the most unrefined of all the QBs taken. Not sure why they thought they could win in his first year of starting. They have not cleaned up really anything with him. He seems very uncomfortable in the pocket, for some reason like to take a short hop forward before he throws causing all sorts of accuracy issues. I thought it was worth the pick because you just gotta have that franchise QB, but there are some real red flags right now. Where was the Josh Allen, Peyton Manning talk? All over social media, peoples best argument for letting a QB "develop" Ah, social media. Thanks.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 7:58:48 PM)
1-5 Darnold's TD to Int ratio in his last three important games [&:][&:]

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 8:08:42 PM)
A good comment from a Seattle fan: Darnold was MVP today (MVP for the Rams, that is). Anyway, Vikings fans (which is not everyone here) have to wonder about their rookie QB.

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 8:13:02 PM)
Where the **** is 14-3 boy, when his waifu pillow QB throws four interceptions and zero touchdowns, against the RAMS, again? Jalen Hurtz looks like shit too..

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 8:14:30 PM)
Hurtz accuracy is bad tonight too.. overthrow, wide right and wide right on three straight throws, after their D gets a turnover on downs..

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 8:54:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beo quote: ORIGINAL: marty I think the Bears' big return would have been less likely if the Vikings had run the ball on the 1st down, and gotten their TD with 25 seconds, or 15 seconds left. The momentun would have felt differently, and I think the Vikings would have done a better job of covering the return, or even kicking it out of the end zone. And it's also possible the Bears don't even have a chance for a return, had the Vikings run the ball the play right after the Nailor 1st down. I think the Bears likely would have stopped the Vikings a couple of times, but it was 4 down territory, and the Vikings would have found a way to get a TD. The idea that you are going to script run,run,run and then pass for TD with the way JJM had been playing is fantasy. They scored. They needed special teams to do their job. Didn't happen. Well said. Script? Time a touchdown? LOL!

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 9:14:17 PM)
14-3 had the 1st 4 scoring drives go for a FG, threw 4 INTs, but had the team in a position to win with 3 points. 1st 4 drives for 3 points, 1-4-3: 14-3. 4 INTs, but 3 points away, 61 yards away. So 3 points away, despite 4 Is : 3-4I, which is 14-3 backwards. The numbers mean something, there is something in the numbers.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 9:17:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marty 14-3 had the 1st 4 scoring drives go for a FG, threw 4 INTs, but had the team in a position to win with 3 points. 1st 4 drives for 3 points, 1-4-3: 14-3. 4 INTs, but 3 points away, 61 yards away. So 3 points away, despite 4 Is : 3-4I, which is 14-3 backwards. The numbers mean something, there is something in the numbers. Darnold isn't taking anyone to the promised land. Is he better than JJ? Sure. So what. I'd like this team to have an actual franchise qb one day.

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 10:28:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: marty 14-3 had the 1st 4 scoring drives go for a FG, threw 4 INTs, but had the team in a position to win with 3 points. 1st 4 drives for 3 points, 1-4-3: 14-3. 4 INTs, but 3 points away, 61 yards away. So 3 points away, despite 4 Is : 3-4I, which is 14-3 backwards. The numbers mean something, there is something in the numbers. Darnold isn't taking anyone to the promised land. Is he better than JJ? Sure. So what. I'd like this team to have an actual franchise qb one day. . It’s been 5 games.. I’m fine with him learning things like touch, passing lanes, moving in the pocket and running when he can.. He is ****ing 22.. When I was 22, I was a “ in excess of 400 feet”, undef water.. give or take.. and hated it.. I’m not seeing ponder in JJM at all.. Ponder was a pansy who couldn’t lead.. JjM is a kid with heart and desire.. If ST had done their fn job, he could well have had a CFB win that would have been a good offset for his jitters and outright bad throws.. To pretend his throws are trash is bias.. Gerald Goff has been horrible tonight in crunch time and on ALL his passes.. Shit happens. JJM is our future.. Deal with it. Dump Thielen, smith , Jones, Hockenson and keep drafting OL players like Jackson.. Nailor is money for his cost.

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 10:32:12 PM)
Down go the lions…

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/16/2025 11:44:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: marty 14-3 had the 1st 4 scoring drives go for a FG, threw 4 INTs, but had the team in a position to win with 3 points. 1st 4 drives for 3 points, 1-4-3: 14-3. 4 INTs, but 3 points away, 61 yards away. So 3 points away, despite 4 Is : 3-4I, which is 14-3 backwards. The numbers mean something, there is something in the numbers. Darnold isn't taking anyone to the promised land. Is he better than JJ? Sure. So what. I'd like this team to have an actual franchise qb one day. . It’s been 5 games.. I’m fine with him learning things like touch, passing lanes, moving in the pocket and running when he can.. He is ****ing 22.. When I was 22, I was a “ in excess of 400 feet”, undef water.. give or take.. and hated it.. I’m not seeing ponder in JJM at all.. Ponder was a pansy who couldn’t lead.. JjM is a kid with heart and desire.. If ST had done their fn job, he could well have had a CFB win that would have been a good offset for his jitters and outright bad throws.. To pretend his throws are trash is bias.. Gerald Goff has been horrible tonight in crunch time and on ALL his passes.. Shit happens. JJM is our future.. Deal with it. Dump Thielen, smith , Jones, Hockenson and keep drafting OL players like Jackson.. Nailor is money for his cost. His throws right now are trash. Of course we get to see if he can improve. But to pretend what he did today wasn't trash is laughable. You can't continue to be that inaccurate and play in this league. I'm not saying he's Ponder but so far he's probably worse comparatively. I do like the fact that he ups his game when it counts at the end of games though. The rest of the season is an exercise in seeing what we have in him. Plain and simple.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/17/2025 7:20:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: marty 14-3 had the 1st 4 scoring drives go for a FG, threw 4 INTs, but had the team in a position to win with 3 points. 1st 4 drives for 3 points, 1-4-3: 14-3. 4 INTs, but 3 points away, 61 yards away. So 3 points away, despite 4 Is : 3-4I, which is 14-3 backwards. The numbers mean something, there is something in the numbers. Darnold isn't taking anyone to the promised land. Is he better than JJ? Sure. So what. I'd like this team to have an actual franchise qb one day. . It’s been 5 games.. I’m fine with him learning things like touch, passing lanes, moving in the pocket and running when he can.. He is **ing 22.. When I was 22, I was a “ in excess of 400 feet”, undef water.. give or take.. and hated it.. I’m not seeing ponder in JJM at all.. Ponder was a pansy who couldn’t lead.. JjM is a kid with heart and desire.. If ST had done their fn job, he could well have had a CFB win that would have been a good offset for his jitters and outright bad throws.. To pretend his throws are trash is bias.. Gerald Goff has been horrible tonight in crunch time and on ALL his passes.. Shit happens. JJM is our future.. Deal with it. Dump Thielen, smith , Jones, Hockenson and keep drafting OL players like Jackson.. Nailor is money for his cost. His throws right now are trash. Of course we get to see if he can improve. But to pretend what he did today wasn't trash is laughable. You can't continue to be that inaccurate and play in this league. I'm not saying he's Ponder but so far he's probably worse comparatively. I do like the fact that he ups his game when it counts at the end of games though.** The rest of the season is an exercise in seeing what we have in him. Plain and simple. Yes, for example the go-ahead TD late that would have been the game winner except for the sorry ass special teams.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/17/2025 7:31:28 AM)
If Dallas wins tonight we take sole possession of the #12 draft slot. Lots of good competition seeded higher, but that's why you play the game.

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