RE: General Vikes Talkk

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Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/17/2025 4:35:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Arlowe84 quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser The whole decision making in the offseason is a real head scratcher when you look back. I was as excited as anyone with the way they spent but, when you step back and really look at it, it was foolish. Of course, hindsight and all that but man. It reenforces just how bad KAM is this GM-ing thing. FWIW Skor North they think KAM and Grigson wii be fired at YE Wilfs expected to win this year Lots of money spent but real head scratcher on QB plans Wilfs won’t want them running an extremely important draft They dont think extensions will matter I totally disagree with them. KAM put together this team but SOS plays a part. I see Smith, TJ, Hargrave, and maybe ONeil gone. 2-3 window. You need to keep playing JJ. We played Ponder for 3 years and he never showed the arm talent or comback mojo JJ has. You'll see here that SOS is only somewhat to the high side: https://sports.yahoo.com/article/nfl-draft-2026-current-draft-123000409.html And much of that is explained by two games against the "7-3" Bears, who are a shitty team. Actually we should have beaten Pitt, Philly, and Balt. Atlanta was when some teams just run thru you in the NFL.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/17/2025 4:37:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Justin Jeffersons commercial to TD ratio is 3.5:1 Hell, his weight of bling on the field in pounds to TD ratio is 1:1 (teeth, ears, necklaces, charm bracelets, shoes) He can have all that but the Addison, TJ, and JJ drops are horrible.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/17/2025 4:45:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Arlowe84 quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser The whole decision making in the offseason is a real head scratcher when you look back. I was as excited as anyone with the way they spent but, when you step back and really look at it, it was foolish. Of course, hindsight and all that but man. It reenforces just how bad KAM is this GM-ing thing. FWIW Skor North they think KAM and Grigson wii be fired at YE Wilfs expected to win this year Lots of money spent but real head scratcher on QB plans Wilfs won’t want them running an extremely important draft They dont think extensions will matter I totally disagree with them. KAM put together this team but SOS plays a part. I see Smith, TJ, Hargrave, and maybe ONeil gone. 2-3 window. You need to keep playing JJ. We played Ponder for 3 years and he never showed the arm talent or comback mojo JJ has. You'll see here that SOS is only somewhat to the high side: https://sports.yahoo.com/article/nfl-draft-2026-current-draft-123000409.html And much of that is explained by two games against the "7-3" Bears, who are a shitty team. Actually we should have beaten Pitt, Philly, and Balt. Atlanta was when some teams just run thru you in the NFL. But actually we didn't beat Pitt. Or Philly. Or Balt.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/17/2025 4:54:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Justin Jeffersons commercial to TD ratio is 3.5:1 Hell, his weight of bling on the field in pounds to TD ratio is 1:1 (teeth, ears, necklaces, charm bracelets, shoes) He can have all that but the Addison, TJ, and JJ drops are horrible. Sure but I happen to wonder what seemingly endless commercial shootings, generational wealth, where's my silver retainers, etc do to some players... particularly WRs who for decades have tried to outdo each other for the title of spoiled bitchy malcontent. Such a possible lack of focus, intestinal fortitude, and role playing can lead to drops.

Rob Viking -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/18/2025 12:30:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser NFL Live just broke it down and they are just as puzzled as we are. They said that even on his egregiously bad throws, his mechanics are sound. They had no answer but concluded it was KOC's playcalling is putting him in bad positions and they need to help him better cover up this issue until they figure it out. How is it a playcalling issue when he's just wildly missing open targets all game long? Shorten the passing scheme and stop trying for the home run ball was the suggestion. I think the exact quote was "protect him from himself". So half the length of the usable field is no-go territory. Why not go Tarvaris Jackson and instead cut off half the WIDTH of the field? Or both. Just work the short left quadrant. Yeah, you said it. They just fill content. The part that got me to post that though was the fact that Orlovsky (sp?) said he watched every throw good and bad and couldn't find a mechanical issue to explain it. I can defintely find issues with his mechanics on the pick on the over route to Jet and the near pick.

Rob Viking -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/18/2025 12:42:39 AM)
And Ryan Grigson is terrible. What did he do after landing Andrew Luck? He never addressed the OLine until finally drafting Kelly in 2016, otherwise he was getting Luck hammered out there. Total GM malpractice. Had Grigson been more responsible with his drafting Andrew Luck would still be playing.

Rob Viking -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/18/2025 12:47:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Arlowe84 quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser The whole decision making in the offseason is a real head scratcher when you look back. I was as excited as anyone with the way they spent but, when you step back and really look at it, it was foolish. Of course, hindsight and all that but man. It reenforces just how bad KAM is this GM-ing thing. FWIW Skor North they think KAM and Grigson wii be fired at YE Wilfs expected to win this year Lots of money spent but real head scratcher on QB plans Wilfs won’t want them running an extremely important draft They dont think extensions will matter I totally disagree with them. KAM put together this team but SOS plays a part. I see Smith, TJ, Hargrave, and maybe ONeil gone. 2-3 window. You need to keep playing JJ. We played Ponder for 3 years and he never showed the arm talent or comback mojo JJ has. You'll see here that SOS is only somewhat to the high side: https://sports.yahoo.com/article/nfl-draft-2026-current-draft-123000409.html And much of that is explained by two games against the "7-3" Bears, who are a shitty team. Actually we should have beaten Pitt, Philly, and Balt. Atlanta was when some teams just run thru you in the NFL. Perhaps, but their kickers missed kicks, all 3 teams were able to move the ball when they had to. 4-6 sounds about right, could have lost the first Bears game and the Browns game too. The Bears are average, think we would be 7-3 with their schedule.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/18/2025 1:58:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser NFL Live just broke it down and they are just as puzzled as we are. They said that even on his egregiously bad throws, his mechanics are sound. They had no answer but concluded it was KOC's playcalling is putting him in bad positions and they need to help him better cover up this issue until they figure it out. How is it a playcalling issue when he's just wildly missing open targets all game long? yes, that was the first mccarthy game that i don't blame o'connell.... mccarthy is just holding the ball too long...receivers lose their window, gets his arm hit while passing, tipped balls...panic.... and still, if the receivers eliminate the drops, we win that game....

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/18/2025 5:46:34 AM)
I don’t fault them for scoring too soon. When you’re down a TD you score any way you can, and don’t worry about working down the clock until maybe you’re 1st and goal. Before that, scoring a TD is far from a given so get it any way you can. Disagree 100%. This is quite similar to 1st and goal, you have it 1st and goal at, I believe it was the 18 yard line after Nailor catch. You have it with a 1st down in the red zone, you think about the clock. It was the 1st thing Brady mentioned, "this is where you start thinking about the clock", right after the Nailor catch. There is a reason why Brady has won so many Championships. I was thinking right after the Nailor catch, "at least run the ball ONE play, and there is a strong chance we win this game. Score to quickly, and you're giving the Bears the chance to win with a FG". And we quickly scored a TD on the next play. I see Addison celebrating, and I was thinking, he is celebrating much too soon.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/18/2025 5:54:22 AM)
I can't tell you how many games I have watched where it gets under a minute, and I think, why doesn't the team that has the lead, but doesn't have the ball, call a timeout ? They rarely do, the clock just keeps running, let the chips fall asleep they may. Sometimes the trailing team that has entered the red zone scores, occasionally they run out of time, sometimes they don't score. There is no certainty that Ben Johnson calls a timeout right after the Nailor catch, he could have called one before the Vikings ran another play. I think Johnson would have hoped the inconsistent McCarthy would not come through with a TD. And had Johnson used a timeout, the Vikings could have run the ball, and just played for the 1st down at the 8 yard line. Get the first down, and it's a possibility the Bears use up all their timeouts, or get the ball back with just 10 seconds to play and no timeouts. Either way, the Vikings likely would have been in the driver's seat. And I think the Vikings were going to score eventually against the weak Bears 2ndary, especially since it was 4 down territory.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/18/2025 7:05:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser NFL Live just broke it down and they are just as puzzled as we are. They said that even on his egregiously bad throws, his mechanics are sound. They had no answer but concluded it was KOC's playcalling is putting him in bad positions and they need to help him better cover up this issue until they figure it out. How is it a playcalling issue when he's just wildly missing open targets all game long? yes, that was the first mccarthy game that i don't blame o'connell.... mccarthy is just holding the ball too long...receivers lose their window, gets his arm hit while passing, tipped balls...panic.... and still, if the receivers eliminate the drops, we win that game.... Not actually true...JJ was wide open as was Addison and he missed both. Those are just 2 examples. The drops were important and equal to the bad throws.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/18/2025 7:20:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser NFL Live just broke it down and they are just as puzzled as we are. They said that even on his egregiously bad throws, his mechanics are sound. They had no answer but concluded it was KOC's playcalling is putting him in bad positions and they need to help him better cover up this issue until they figure it out. How is it a playcalling issue when he's just wildly missing open targets all game long? yes, that was the first mccarthy game that i don't blame o'connell.... mccarthy is just holding the ball too long...receivers lose their window, gets his arm hit while passing, tipped balls...panic.... and still, if the receivers eliminate the drops, we win that game.... At the end of the day we lost a close game to the NFCN leader! Nevermiind they have a negative points differential, so did the Vikings in their glorious 13-4 season in 2022.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/18/2025 7:39:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marty I can't tell you how many games I have watched where it gets under a minute, and I think, why doesn't the team that has the lead, but doesn't have the ball, call a timeout ? They rarely do, the clock just keeps running, let the chips fall asleep they may. Sometimes the trailing team that has entered the red zone scores, occasionally they run out of time, sometimes they don't score. There is no certainty that Ben Johnson calls a timeout right after the Nailor catch, he could have called one before the Vikings ran another play. I think Johnson would have hoped the inconsistent McCarthy would not come through with a TD. And had Johnson used a timeout, the Vikings could have run the ball, and just played for the 1st down at the 8 yard line. Get the first down, and it's a possibility the Bears use up all their timeouts, or get the ball back with just 10 seconds to play and no timeouts. Either way, the Vikings likely would have been in the driver's seat. And I think the Vikings were going to score eventually against the weak Bears 2ndary, especially since it was 4 down territory. Rather than offer speculative innuendo, why don't you run a scenario where Chicago uses their three timeouts and factors in KOC NOT taking at least a couple of shots into the end zone to, you know, try and win the game. Oh, and don't start said scenario with Chicago calling a timeout after Nailor's catch or "before the Vikings ran another play" because that is not what happened. Just offer a sequence of plays and likely times on the clock whereby you don't blame the loss on KOC. Vikes ball, 1st and 10 from the Chi 15. 50 seconds left. Chi w/ 3 timeouts.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/18/2025 7:42:32 AM)
I believe I am 100% right that the Vikings should have run the ball after Nailor picked up the first down. And I realize that just about every time I post an opinion, there will usually be a Tom, Bill or Harry posting a contrary opinion. Had it been the opposite, and the Vikings were in the Bears position, I would have argued the Vikings should have called a timeout immediately after the WR 1st down catch with 50 seconds left, so the Vikings have a chance to get the ball again, and some contrarian would have argued against that. In fact, I am pretty sure that is exactly what happened about 15 years ago. I believe it was the Packers getting a 1st down at our 20 yard line with about a minute to play. I posted the Vikings should have immediately called timeout, so the Vikings might have a chance to kick a FG, if the Packers got a TD. Well Packers ran the ball a few times, ran the clock down, and scored a TD, leaving the Vikings about 8 seconds on the clock. Then the Vikings lost. Someone told me that you don't call a timeout there, you leave the opposing offense in panic mode, they could fumble, get intercepted, or get stopped, or even run out of time. This wasn't a FG, and your defense needs to do it's job and keep them out of the end zone. Except the Vikings defense didn't keep them out of the end zone, the Packers scored, and the Vikings had 8 seconds left to answer with a FG, and didn't do it.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/18/2025 7:42:35 AM)
[:D]

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/18/2025 8:02:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marty I believe I am 100% right that the Vikings should have run the ball after Nailor picked up the first down. And I realize that just about every time I post an opinion, there will usually be a Tom, Bill or Harry posting a contrary opinion. Had it been the opposite, and the Vikings were in the Bears position, I would have argued the Vikings should have called a timeout immediately after the WR 1st down catch with 50 seconds left, so the Vikings have a chance to get the ball again, and some contrarian would have argued against that. In fact, I am pretty sure that is exactly what happened about 15 years ago. I believe it was the Packers getting a 1st down at our 20 yard line with about a minute to play. I posted the Vikings should have immediately called timeout, so the Vikings might have a chance to kick a FG, if the Packers got a TD. Well Packers ran the ball a few times, ran the clock down, and scored a TD, leaving the Vikings about 8 seconds on the clock. Then the Vikings lost. Someone told me that you don't call a timeout there, you leave the opposing offense in panic mode, they could fumble, get intercepted, or get stopped, or even run out of time. This wasn't a FG, and your defense needs to do it's job and keep them out of the end zone. Except the Vikings defense didn't keep them out of the end zone, the Packers scored, and the Vikings had 8 seconds left to answer with a FG, and didn't do it. So rather than offer a scenario, we instead get the I am right card, the victim card, and a bunch of stuff that frankly I didn't bother reading. Got it, thanks.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/18/2025 8:10:02 AM)
And again, a very good offensive team could have run some clock. But the Vikings offense on Sunday wasn't the '98 Vikings that could run, run, have a picnic, then just lob it to Moss or fire it to Carter for the ho-hum game winner. I'm not even saying Marty is wrong at least philosophically. But the devil is in the details. Given Chicago returned the ball to the Minnesota 40 in eight seconds and had several options to gain nine yards (which is the amount they gained) using just a few more seconds, how is it Marty determined that KOC is to be blamed for the loss? BTW, if someone plays the victim by highlighting their opinion is being challenged by a "contrary opinion", they should realize this is an opinion board.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/18/2025 8:53:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rob Viking And Ryan Grigson is terrible. What did he do after landing Andrew Luck? He never addressed the OLine until finally drafting Kelly in 2016, otherwise he was getting Luck hammered out there. Total GM malpractice. Had Grigson been more responsible with his drafting Andrew Luck would still be playing. Not entirely sure about that assumption. Andrew Luck was a different kind of cat. Retired during his prime. Currently the GM of Stanford Athletics. I'm not defending Grigson, BTW.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/18/2025 8:57:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser NFL Live just broke it down and they are just as puzzled as we are. They said that even on his egregiously bad throws, his mechanics are sound. They had no answer but concluded it was KOC's playcalling is putting him in bad positions and they need to help him better cover up this issue until they figure it out. How is it a playcalling issue when he's just wildly missing open targets all game long? yes, that was the first mccarthy game that i don't blame o'connell.... mccarthy is just holding the ball too long...receivers lose their window, gets his arm hit while passing, tipped balls...panic.... and still, if the receivers eliminate the drops, we win that game.... Brian Flores and his defense continue to keep the team in games. Flores is the only thing holding this team above water.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/18/2025 9:39:35 AM)
I wasn't playing victim Bill, I am just pointing out a fact. I have no expectation of Tom, Bill or Harry agreeing with anything I post, they would argue the sky isn't blue, if I stated the sky was blue. If I stated it was just our perception that it was blue, one of you would that is just my perception, that it's actually some other color.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/18/2025 9:42:00 AM)
And, actually I did offer a scenario, and I pointed out a scenario in the past where I had argued that the Vikings should call a timeout when the opposing team got a 1st down in the red zone with just a minute to play, so the Vikings might have a chance to kick a FG, if the opponent scored a TD quickly.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/18/2025 9:45:12 AM)
I don't think the return by Chicago mattered as much as you think. Today's NFL favors the offense, it would have been nothing for Caleb to complete 2 20 yard passed in 15 seconds, and today's kickers can kick very long FGs. Give them 50 seconds to get a FG, and any .500 team is probably going to beat you.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/18/2025 9:51:33 AM)
And again, a very good offensive team could have run some clock. But the Vikings offense on Sunday wasn't the '98 Vikings that could run, run, have a picnic, then just lob it to Moss or fire it to Carter for the ho-hum game winner. Mason was fully capable of busting off a 12 yard run on first down. He does that, and McCarthy might not even have to attempt a go ahead TD. 12 yards brings it from the 18 to the 6 yard line. Then Mason gains 4 yards, and you've got 3 downs to get 2 yards. McCarthy is also capable of running it in like he did in Chicago, or he can hit one his quality, clutch WRs (Addison has been very good near the end of the games, the catch against Cleveland was incredible), or Hock, or McConnel draws up something that leaves speedy wide open in the end zone.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/18/2025 9:58:10 AM)
I think I am 100% right on this, and a HC that knows how to win the Super Bowl, probably would have run the ball on the next play after the Nailor 1st down in the red zone, maybe even run 2 plays, as you can still get a 1st and goal from the 8. While I am right about many things, I will admit if I later feel I am wrong about something. You want to hear me admit I was wrong about something? Ok. I was wrong about acquiring Breece Hall this season. I thought Aaron Jones had a more serious injury, and I didn't realize how far McCarthy has to go in developing a good pallette of throws, and improving on accuracy and timing. This is not the Vikings year, and would not have been the season to go for it with a young outstanding back like Hall. The time to get him, or another good young back, will be the next off-season.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (11/18/2025 9:58:12 AM)
[:D]

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