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Trekgeekscott -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 11:10:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynn G.

although Ted Thompson seems determined to build only from the draft anyway.  



The guy is a total moron.  And I am happy that they have a moron running their team.

Truth is...what made them great in the 90s was only partially Brett.  What put them over the top into a real SB contender was the big FA signing of Reggie White.  And need I remind anyone that they got Favre in a trade? 

Anyone looking can see the impact that Jared Allen has had with the Vikings.  Only a fool would refuse to seriously consider that option.



Easy E -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 11:16:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

We just won't agree on this E.

And yes, I hate Favre, but I hate the Packers too.  There's no bias here. 

I think the Packers made the right call.  And using Clemens as an example will get you nowhere with me.  I think Clemens is a pompous ass that should have been put out to pasture as well.


I think I went through and listed 20+ famous athletes that have retired and unretired. The biggest difference is in how the Packers handled it, like Lynn says. Usually, when an organization decides to go in a different direction, that's what they do. The Packers wanted to go in a different direction but still had a hard on for Brett.

I think they were "fine" to decide they didn't want Favre, that wasn't the issue.

I think they looked like an ametuer organization with a penchant for effing with an athlete's livelihood, trying to force him to stay retired like he was their slave, then trying to pay him to sit, (which would have for sure enraged the fans and the players), trying to drag other teams into their shitstorm, before finally forcing the rest of the owners, through the commish, to tell them to stop acting like babies and knock it off.

They will be feeling the aftermath of how they handled this for years, being pathetic this year while watching the Jets go from pathetic to 9 wins just karma rubbing a little spit in their eye.

Couldn't happen to a nice club, IMO.



Easy E -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 11:18:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynn G.

although Ted Thompson seems determined to build only from the draft anyway.  



The guy is a total moron.  And I am happy that they have a moron running their team.

Truth is...what made them great in the 90s was only partially Brett.  What put them over the top into a real SB contender was the big FA signing of Reggie White.  And need I remind anyone that they got Favre in a trade? 

Anyone looking can see the impact that Jared Allen has had with the Vikings.  Only a fool would refuse to seriously consider that option.


What you have to like is spending a 1st round pick on a QB, then spending another, and then following it up with a 2nd round pick too. That's an awful lot of high picks on QBs.



djskillz -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 11:18:44 AM)

Again, we'll just have to disagree.

Favre was under contract with them.  They'd be fools if they didn't use that leverage to steer him in the right direction.

If you have a football with good "value" in it, even though it's of no use to you, do you just give it away, or do you sell it for what you can get for it?

That's how I look at the situation.



Easy E -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 11:19:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Again, we'll just have to disagree.

Favre was under contract with them.  They'd be fools if they didn't use that leverage to steer him in the right direction.

If you have a football with good "value" in it, even though it's of no use to you, do you just give it away, or do you sell it for what you can get for it?

That's how I look at the situation.


Why didn't they do that with Reggie White?

Answer - because they had a smart GM who knew how to handle the (gasp) horrible situation of a famous player wanting to come out of retirement.



Easy E -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 11:20:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Again, we'll just have to disagree.

Favre was under contract with them.  They'd be fools if they didn't use that leverage to steer him in the right direction.

If you have a football with good "value" in it, even though it's of no use to you, do you just give it away, or do you sell it for what you can get for it?

That's how I look at the situation.


Your reputation as an organization with players in the era of free agency is worth a hell of a lot more than forcing Favre to the Jets. IMO.



djskillz -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 11:21:38 AM)

I don't remember the whole White saga.

Probably because he didn't have real value at that stage, like Favre did.



Lynn G. -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 11:24:10 AM)

quote:

then trying to pay him to sit,


I had completely forgotten about that.   What a bunch of maroons.

I have to admit I was hoping Favre would go for it because it would show he was only in it for the money and then we'd have yet another thing to chastise him about.

I wonder when he's going to tell the Jets his plans for next year.   [image]http://talkvikes.gorge.net/image/s4.gif[/image]



djskillz -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 11:26:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynn G.

quote:

then trying to pay him to sit,


I had completely forgotten about that.   What a bunch of maroons.

I have to admit I was hoping Favre would go for it because it would show he was only in it for the money and then we'd have yet another thing to chastise him about.

I wonder when he's going to tell the Jets his plans for next year.   [;)]


He'll probably tell them early on.

But then he'll change his mind through the media 50 times before we have a final answer, probably around August of next year.  [;)]



Easy E -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 11:27:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynn G.

quote:

then trying to pay him to sit,


I had completely forgotten about that.   What a bunch of maroons.

I have to admit I was hoping Favre would go for it because it would show he was only in it for the money and then we'd have yet another thing to chastise him about.

I wonder when he's going to tell the Jets his plans for next year.   [;)]


Actually, I think this was the move that probably sealed them with their own team.

How can you try such a tactic and keep respect with the players on your own team? Even players on your "side" had to take this ploy as a total farce and the act of a team that wasn't interested in winning, but rather on an agenda. And you know a lot of the vets probably assumed they weren't on that agenda either.



Toby Stumbo -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 11:32:48 AM)

If I keep reading this thread I might have to break out my old avatar. [:-]



djskillz -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 11:49:51 AM)

If that's what it takes, man, then I'll keep posting on the subject.

I want that avatar back!



John Childress -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 4:19:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

See, that's where we disagree.  I don't think they screwed Favre at all.  I think Favre TRIED to screw them.  And they didn't give in.


Favre tried to screw them by playing football?

99% of teams release a player when they don't want him anymore. I am actually glad that the players in this league got to see that the Packers aren't one of them. I think it will "help" them with FA a lot.


I have to agree with E on this point.

If a QB leads a team to 13-3 with pro bowl quality play why wouldn't you want him back?

The Eagles are in a similar position this year.  They drafted Kolb and want McNabb to leave so that they can play Kolb.

If they do that they will not win 5 games next year.

Favre gave the Jets a big confidence boost but he is out of gas now and playing like crap.



hrerikl -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 4:48:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz
If you have a football with good "value" in it, even though it's of no use to you, do you just give it away, or do you sell it for what you can get for it?

That's how I look at the situation.


Nothing wrong with the Pack looking for value in trade.  They only did that after Telling him he couldn't compete for the starting job(to try to shame him into not playing), offering to pay him a huge sum of money (to try to bribe him to not play) (it was questionable whether this should have counted against the salary cap).  Look at it this way, if an aging Adrian Peterson after giving the Vikings (a/multiple) Superbowl Win(s) is no longer needed in Minnesota because they are moving on but decides he still want's to play.  (I don't care if he does have second thoughts about retiring.  Almost everyone who loves their job does when that time comes.)  I would be livid if the Vikings treated him with the foolish mind games we saw coming out of green bay.

A Simple " Look Brett,  we are not going to trade you within the division, but will work with you to find a good fit for you in trade." would have been much more appropriate.  Barring being able to get a trade he should have been released early enough in the process to catch on somewhere else.

You don't think other potential Free Agents will notice how much respect they treated someone who means as much to the Packer Legacy as Brett Favre and can extrapolate what they might have to look forward too.



Guest -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 6:10:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Duane Sampson

Who gives a shit as long as the hillbilly cheese chucker never wears purple.


[&:][&:][&:]

We gotta get together sometime, Sammy...



John Childress -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 6:18:19 PM)

What QB has a 60 Qb rating his last 3 games?



djskillz -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 6:22:06 PM)

I think the Packers just knew what most of us said before the season, that Favre's days of having any chance at all of leading a team to a SB were done.  They recognized that, and moved on with a young guy that MAYBE someday CAN take them there. 

I can't fault them for that at all.  Right move IMO.



John Childress -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 9:16:39 PM)

Several players on the Pro Bowl roster who don't belong:

NFC

Walter Jones*
Brian Dawkins
Charles Woodson*
Asante Samuel

Peppers starting over Allen is a mistake and possibly anti-Allen sentiment

AFC

Brett Favre
Dwight Freeney*



djskillz -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 9:17:29 PM)

Freeney's really turned it on of late, though.

The others I tend to agree with you on.



marty -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 9:41:35 PM)

I'm ECSTATIC the way the things turned out for the Packers, it couldn't have worked out any better, for many of the reasons you guys listed.  There are A LOT of Packer fans that now want Ted Thompson gone, and I hope they start over with a new coach which will probably lead to another poor season next year.  

Peta
 
I'm sorry, I don't believe in luck AT ALL.  I think you create what happens to you, and determination and unity as a team is what creates good things, NOT luck.  Maybe some of you think that THIS years' Vikings team is a one year fluke, and will be bad once again next year ?

What you don't understand is I really don't care for Favre that much, just find him entertaining.  I hated him when he was in GB, now I just find him entertaining, as long he isn't beating the Vikes in the SB.

IF I were the Packers I would have given Favre ONE more year, and he would also get one more should they have advanced to the NFC Championship again.  Anything less and I let him go next year, trade or release.  I agree with JC that it is foolish after a 13-3 season where you 1 play away from the SB to let go of your leader.

LEADERSHIP is the reason why I think Favre would have gotten from 9-11 wins out of the Pack this year.  It is the reason why he has the Jets where they are, and it is what Aaron Rodgers has NOT shown.  I also worry that TJACK hasn't shown that either, neither did Cunningham (CC and Moss ran the team).  Peterson has taken on a leadership role for the offense, and probably Jared Allen for the defense, although there are A LOT of mouths there, and strong personalities, which Leslie has a done a good job of holding together.

Favre was the Packers' leader on offense, and Barnett on defense.  Once Barnett went down the Packer defense REALLY regressed.  I'm not sure "aging CBs" is an adequate explanation.  Actually Charles Woodson is having a Pro Bowl year, and Harris has missed some time, but played o.k. when he has been in there.   The safeties have been erratic, and Harris' replacement Tramon Williams has been VERY inconsistent.  It's really more INEXPERIENCE with Williams, then the aging of Woodson or Harris.  The DL has played poorly, and they never got good pass rush out of KGB like they did last year, and no one to replace him.      

I think GB is actually loaded with talent, with a few weaknesses, which I do NOT want to list here for fear that Packer spies read this thread.  The Pack COULD bounce back next year and be 13-3, should this talented team catch a mojo.  It is my hope that the disarray continues or worsens.       



marty -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 9:53:26 PM)

Unless Favre takes the Jets to the SB, I'm glad the Vikes didn't get him.  The Vikes would have had to have given up a lot, and after all those years of disliking him, my stomach probably would have been queesy cheering for him. 

I was PROBABLY wrong, but the reason I wanted Favre (or Sage, Nall or Garcia, there wasn't much out there this last offseason), was I just wanted the Vikings' talented team to MAKE the playoffs, and was just hoping from there things might fall right (NOT luck), and the Vikes would win it all.  It now looks like the Vikes might make the playoffs, I'm hopeful. 

I've had more of a sense of leadership from GUTS then I've gotten from TJACK, even though TJACK shows way more talent.  I don't know what it is, but I HOPE the Vikings' players on offense are confident in TJACK's leadership, or if not, that it is GUTS that leads the way.       



drviking -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 10:49:28 PM)

stairwell was placed on IR today



marty -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/16/2008 11:17:26 PM)

JC
 
Charles Woodson DOES deserve to be in the Pro Bowl this year, and he should have started in front of Al Harris LAST year.

Ask any 10 Packers fans who the 2 best players are on their defense, I would bet 9 out of 10 would tell you CB/S CHARLES WOODSON and DE AARON KAMPMANN.

Woodson has been FANTASTIC, has made outstanding plays, and he's even dropped a few picks.  He stuffed MJ Drew on a 3rd down run play last week by jumping OVER a blocker and making quite a tackle.  Woodson was awesome despite very little pass rush.  Woodson has been playing safety lately, and I think that has reduced his playmaking a tad, and is part of the reason for the Packers D's decline.   

Lately teams have been doubling Kampmann more, and chipping him more, focussing on him.  That has been quite successful, and as a result the rest of the DL (which is minus KGB, who was ineffective) has done NOTHING to pick up the slack, so they have had to blitz more.  Teams have done a good job of picking up most Packer blitzes this year.  The result of little pass rush besides Kampmann is many more deep balls being thrown on the Packers' D, with many completions.  Carolina, Houston and Jacksonville all did well in this area.  

Kampmann deserves to be in the Pro Bowl because he achieves so much with so little pass rush at the other end or in the middle.   



Trekgeekscott -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/17/2008 8:16:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

JC
 
Charles Woodson DOES deserve to be in the Pro Bowl this year, and he should have started in front of Al Harris LAST year.

Ask any 10 Packers fans who the 2 best players are on their defense, I would bet 9 out of 10 would tell you CB/S CHARLES WOODSON and DE AARON KAMPMANN.

Woodson has been FANTASTIC, has made outstanding plays, and he's even dropped a few picks.  He stuffed MJ Drew on a 3rd down run play last week by jumping OVER a blocker and making quite a tackle.  Woodson was awesome despite very little pass rush.  Woodson has been playing safety lately, and I think that has reduced his playmaking a tad, and is part of the reason for the Packers D's decline.   

Lately teams have been doubling Kampmann more, and chipping him more, focussing on him.  That has been quite successful, and as a result the rest of the DL (which is minus KGB, who was ineffective) has done NOTHING to pick up the slack, so they have had to blitz more.  Teams have done a good job of picking up most Packer blitzes this year.  The result of little pass rush besides Kampmann is many more deep balls being thrown on the Packers' D, with many completions.  Carolina, Houston and Jacksonville all did well in this area.  

Kampmann deserves to be in the Pro Bowl because he achieves so much with so little pass rush at the other end or in the middle.   


Woodson also blew the coverage against Steve Smith in the game that probably broke the back on their season.  On a play, no less, that everyone and their sister, even boobs that don't know football, knew that Delhomme was going to throw to Smith.  Early in the season he was good.  He has regressed as the season has progressed.  That is a sign of aging. 



marty -> RE: RE:NFL News (12/17/2008 8:16:03 PM)

I disagree.

It took a perfect throw from Delhomme, and it was quite the catch for Smith, the coverage was actually pretty good.  I don't know many CBs that can always shutdown Steve Smith.  Woodson is a top CB, and he made many plays this year.

That deep throw wouldn't happen if the Packers had any kind of pass rush besides aaron kampmann.    



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