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Guest -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 12:11:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 69in09

quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

Ian, you may have been wayyyyy off on the Texans QB situation, but you may be right on with the steelers QB situation.

Steelers President Art Rooney Jr. Just said that he won't guarantee that Ben Roethlisberger will finish his contract as a Steeer which ends at the end of next season.

Sorry guys, Big Ben would be the best available QB available (If indeed he is available?) and prolly the best QB not named Favre since Tark....


Oddly, ESPN is reporting the opposite, that they want to extend his deal.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10264047/pittsburgh-steelers-hope-extend-ben-roethlisberger-contract



[&:]. Isn't that special... I run out and and post what they reported on a San Diego radio station, and come to find out its completely the opposite.... Hahaha. Billy Ray Smith, what a tool...



JT2 -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 12:39:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Houston might take Manziel with the #1 pick.

Midseason someone was trying to tell me some nonsense about Manziel dropping to late 1st or even the 2nd round. I was willing to bet at the time that he would be in the top 10, and haven't heard a peep from those that thought that.

Manziel has hired the same PR guy as LeBron, and I think that will help his stock. I now believe Manziel will be chosen in the top 5. I hope the Vikes trade up to #3 for Manziel if he is isn't take with one of the 1st 2 picks. Nothing can change around a team more than a franchise QB, and I think Manziel is exactly that.

For Manziel to fall to 8, it might take some off field trouble, or maybe someone can send him some marijuana, or spread a rumor around, to help him take a Warren Sapp type slide.



Here's another version of the events. A version called reality. YOU said, somewhere around midseason, that Manziel (who you haven't watched play very much) would be the first pick in the draft. I offered you fairly good odds on that bet. Ian offered even better.
I know you prefer pretend bets on pretend, fixed games, but you had the chance to put your money where your mouth is, and you didn't even have the courtesy to respond.

If your memory fails you, I will dig up the old posts.



JT2 -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 12:45:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Houston might take Manziel with the #1 pick.

Midseason someone was trying to tell me some nonsense about Manziel dropping to late 1st or even the 2nd round. I was willing to bet at the time that he would be in the top 10, and haven't heard a peep from those that thought that.

Manziel has hired the same PR guy as LeBron, and I think that will help his stock. I now believe Manziel will be chosen in the top 5. I hope the Vikes trade up to #3 for Manziel if he is isn't take with one of the 1st 2 picks. Nothing can change around a team more than a franchise QB, and I think Manziel is exactly that.

For Manziel to fall to 8, it might take some off field trouble, or maybe someone can send him some marijuana, or spread a rumor around, to help him take a Warren Sapp type slide.


A couple days ago somebody said he would fall to the 3rd round. I hope we have the option of getting him at 8.



I'm not certain if you are referring to me, but I did say that he is a 3rd round talent. And that is stretching it. Never said I think he will be drafted in the 3rd round. Of course somebody will draft him too early. Ask Tebow. If Manziel is drafted in the first round, he will be the biggest bust of this draft.



JT2 -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 1:00:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Worry about these guys with such a wide range of projected landing spots.

When I see; top 10, no bottom of the 1st, not 3rd or 4th round...

I see another Tebow.


Does anybody without an agenda really think Manziel will go in the 3rd round? All I see is top 10 predictions.



Maybe I missed it, but did anybody say he would be drafted in the 3rd? Personally, I wouldn't even draft him in the 3rd, but I don't recall anybody saying he'll be drafted that late. Where he is drafted has little to do with how good he will be in the NFL. Ponder and Tebow were drafted too early too.

Manziel is a front office dream, and a coach's nightmare.

I know I have said that I don't think he will have a NFL career even as good as his A&M QB predecessor. Not a high a bar.



Bruce Johnson -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 8:42:05 AM)

This years draft reminds me of the 2004 draft. Four quarterbacks were taken in the first round: Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger, and Losman. Later in the third round was Matt Shaub and Luke McCown. Rivers has a chance to win a Super Bowl this year. Other than that, Manning and Roethlisberger both have won multiple Super Bowls. The others had chances at starting with mixed results.

If this years draft follows form, it will be best to grab one of the top three quarterbacks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manning-Rivers_trade



thebigo -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 9:31:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

This years draft reminds me of the 2004 draft. Four quarterbacks were taken in the first round: Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger, and Losman. Later in the third round was Matt Shaub and Luke McCown. Rivers has a chance to win a Super Bowl this year. Other than that, Manning and Roethlisberger both have won multiple Super Bowls. The others had chances at starting with mixed results.

If this years draft follows form, it will be best to grab one of the top three quarterbacks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manning-Rivers_trade


Problem is, you won't know if this draft follows form until after the draft.



Phil Riewer -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 9:42:53 AM)

Manziel---a couple of things before the draft...If I am a GM---I want to know if the guy is 5'10" or 6'1". I want to know about his arm strength and his speed.

Those couple of things I will wait until Pre Draft workouts to see if he is Doug Flutie (barely 3rd round) or Russell Wilson (1st round talent)



Todd M -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 11:21:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Worry about these guys with such a wide range of projected landing spots.

When I see; top 10, no bottom of the 1st, not 3rd or 4th round...

I see another Tebow.


Does anybody without an agenda really think Manziel will go in the 3rd round? All I see is top 10 predictions.



Maybe I missed it, but did anybody say he would be drafted in the 3rd? Personally, I wouldn't even draft him in the 3rd, but I don't recall anybody saying he'll be drafted that late. Where he is drafted has little to do with how good he will be in the NFL. Ponder and Tebow were drafted too early too.

Manziel is a front office dream, and a coach's nightmare.

I know I have said that I don't think he will have a NFL career even as good as his A&M QB predecessor. Not a high a bar.


quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

I predict Manziel won't throw at the combine. His measurable will be lousy as well, slower than expected 40, less than 6 feet tall, not very strong.
This will drop him to the second or third round.
When he plays, he will outperform the measurables and be a decent QB, but never a team guy.
He will post better numbers than actual playoff wins.

That being said, I would take a chance on him in the third round, but not before that.



JT2 -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 11:27:37 AM)

I did miss it. Thanks Todd



69in09 -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 11:38:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Manziel---a couple of things before the draft...If I am a GM---I want to know if the guy is 5'10" or 6'1". I want to know about his arm strength and his speed.

Those couple of things I will wait until Pre Draft workouts to see if he is Doug Flutie (barely 3rd round) or Russell Wilson (1st round talent)


The Seahawks have stated that as they prepped for the 2012 draft instead of worrying about Wilson's height they looked into and graded his adjustment in plays where his height would be a factor.

They found that at Wisconsin by the combination of alternating his throwing platform and having a quick release Wilson had well under the amount of batted balls and was able to find his throwing lanes as needed.

They have attempted to simulate some of this for him in Seattle. Carroll downplays it and says that Wilson naturally makes the adjustments on his own.

While Wilson is an adequate pocket passer what makes him elite is what he does when a play is extended. This is where I believe Manziels true value lies.

If Manziel can even be an adequate pocket passer in the pros, that will keep him on the field for the plays that make him special.



Jeff Jesser -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 12:15:04 PM)

I've stated my opinion on Manziel enough but I'll add this. His height wouldn't bother me. Cassell is what, 6'5? He gets about 5 passes a game knocked down.



69in09 -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 12:22:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I've stated my opinion on Manziel enough but I'll add this. His height wouldn't bother me. Cassell is what, 6'5? He gets about 5 passes a game knocked down.


Yes, his limited lateral movement and massive windup will do that.



Nordic Don -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 1:04:31 PM)

Listening to Greg Cossell and Dick Vermeil this morning talk about Manziel leaves me to question his maturity and how he will deal with adversity. The kid is gutsy and is not afraid to take chances but do question his decision making ability. Coming out of NC State and Wisconsin, the book on Russell Wilson was that he was a very smart quarterback but that his size was going to be his downfall. Cassell is 6'5" and he gets at least 4-5 balls batted down at the line of scrimmage and that is due to his slow, long delivery. His delivery is so slow and allows defensive lineman time to get their hands up to bat the balls down. I like Manziel's leadership and ability to make plays with his feet but not sure if the decision making and maturity level.



JT2 -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 1:15:41 PM)

When did Cassel become 6'5"?



69in09 -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 1:30:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

When did Cassel become 6'5"?


When he puts on his K-swiss!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDqigMNGlbQ



Ricky J -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 2:00:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Worry about these guys with such a wide range of projected landing spots.

When I see; top 10, no bottom of the 1st, not 3rd or 4th round...

I see another Tebow.


Does anybody without an agenda really think Manziel will go in the 3rd round? All I see is top 10 predictions.



Maybe I missed it, but did anybody say he would be drafted in the 3rd? Personally, I wouldn't even draft him in the 3rd, but I don't recall anybody saying he'll be drafted that late. Where he is drafted has little to do with how good he will be in the NFL. Ponder and Tebow were drafted too early too.

Manziel is a front office dream, and a coach's nightmare.

I know I have said that I don't think he will have a NFL career even as good as his A&M QB predecessor. Not a high a bar.


quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

I predict Manziel won't throw at the combine. His measurable will be lousy as well, slower than expected 40, less than 6 feet tall, not very strong.
This will drop him to the second or third round.
When he plays, he will outperform the measurables and be a decent QB, but never a team guy.
He will post better numbers than actual playoff wins.

That being said, I would take a chance on him in the third round, but not before that.


Technically he didn't say he would be drafted in the 3rd only that he'd take a "chance" on him in the 3rd. [;)]



Ricky J -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 2:03:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 69in09

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I've stated my opinion on Manziel enough but I'll add this. His height wouldn't bother me. Cassell is what, 6'5? He gets about 5 passes a game knocked down.


Yes, his limited lateral movement and massive windup will do that.

With his delivery it looks like it's coming out at shoulder level. Didn't Bert Jones (#7) have a real high over top delivery? If Cassel had half of that he'd probably be okay.

or was it Art Schlichter with that delivery?



Jeff Jesser -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 2:49:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

When did Cassel become 6'5"?



sorry, 6'4. was going by memory.



69in09 -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 3:02:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: 69in09

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I've stated my opinion on Manziel enough but I'll add this. His height wouldn't bother me. Cassell is what, 6'5? He gets about 5 passes a game knocked down.


Yes, his limited lateral movement and massive windup will do that.

With his delivery it looks like it's coming out at shoulder level. Didn't Bert Jones (#7) have a real high over top delivery? If Cassel had half of that he'd probably be okay.

or was it Art Schlichter with that delivery?


I've always heard Schlichter was underhanded. [:D]



Ricky J -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 3:23:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 69in09

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: 69in09

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I've stated my opinion on Manziel enough but I'll add this. His height wouldn't bother me. Cassell is what, 6'5? He gets about 5 passes a game knocked down.


Yes, his limited lateral movement and massive windup will do that.

With his delivery it looks like it's coming out at shoulder level. Didn't Bert Jones (#7) have a real high over top delivery? If Cassel had half of that he'd probably be okay.

or was it Art Schlichter with that delivery?


I've always heard Schlichter was underhanded. [:D]

Funny stuff. Yeah, I googled him. Not the guy. Wow, does this guy have a scary addiction. Back in prison. I don't think he's had too many moments were he hasn't been just F up.



McMurfy -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 4:16:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 69in09

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Manziel---a couple of things before the draft...If I am a GM---I want to know if the guy is 5'10" or 6'1". I want to know about his arm strength and his speed.

Those couple of things I will wait until Pre Draft workouts to see if he is Doug Flutie (barely 3rd round) or Russell Wilson (1st round talent)


The Seahawks have stated that as they prepped for the 2012 draft instead of worrying about Wilson's height they looked into and graded his adjustment in plays where his height would be a factor.

They found that at Wisconsin by the combination of alternating his throwing platform and having a quick release Wilson had well under the amount of batted balls and was able to find his throwing lanes as needed.

They have attempted to simulate some of this for him in Seattle. Carroll downplays it and says that Wilson naturally makes the adjustments on his own.

While Wilson is an adequate pocket passer what makes him elite is what he does when a play is extended. This is where I believe Manziels true value lies.

If Manziel can even be an adequate pocket passer in the pros, that will keep him on the field for the plays that make him special.



And then they went out and drafted him in the third round.



Bill Jandro -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 4:19:55 PM)

My feeling is SEA got lucky with Wilson. In no way shape or form could they have ever even dreamed he would be this good.



McMurfy -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 4:27:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

My feeling is SEA got lucky with Wilson. In no way shape or form could they have ever even dreamed he would be this good.



Yep, and it gets annoying here in the NW.
Everyone talks about what a great pick it was, and it is considering it was a third rounder.
But if they were as smart about him as people say they were, he would have gone earlier to them.



69in09 -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 4:38:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

My feeling is SEA got lucky with Wilson. In no way shape or form could they have ever even dreamed he would be this good.



Yep, and it gets annoying here in the NW.
Everyone talks about what a great pick it was, and it is considering it was a third rounder.
But if they were as smart about him as people say they were, he would have gone earlier to them.


The draft remains a crapshoot. Height remains a risk factor and even if you think the player can overcome it. You can't ignore it when weighing risk.

That's why I think it's way too earlier to even guess where these guys will go. The combine and individual workouts will tell a lot.

Honestly with Manziel, I think his frame might be a bigger risk factor than his height.



drviking -> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) (1/9/2014 5:18:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

My feeling is SEA got lucky with Wilson. In no way shape or form could they have ever even dreamed he would be this good.



Yep, and it gets annoying here in the NW.
Everyone talks about what a great pick it was, and it is considering it was a third rounder.
But if they were as smart about him as people say they were, he would have gone earlier to them.



its not luck...they kept looking


they signed Flynn to big dollars.....LOL
they signed Jackson to decent dollars....LOL
they traded 2nd rounder? for Charlie Fricken Whitehurst....LOL


but they kept trying, they swallowed their egos with the world laughing at them, and now they are getting the last laugh

if the Vikings had swallowed their pride and chased down Manning we would have been in better shape, but they had to go with Ponder....because of ego



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