RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (Full Version)

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Prescott -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/14/2013 4:33:21 PM)

quote:

It just kills some people that Luck is not the best QB


quote:


Wilson is already a BETTER QB than Luck in every possible dimension


It seems like it kills you that Luck is actually a damn good QB himself, tbh.

Russell Wilson and RGIII both had better rookie years than Andrew Luck. Both should finish ahead of him in ROY. No debate. Let's get that out of the way right off the bat.

But both or even one of them being "a better QB in every possible dimension"? That's certainly up for debate.

As you point out, Seattle and Indy finished with the exact same record. And if someone looks objectively at the two teams, can there be little doubt which has the better team around them? Seattle was a pretty stacked team on offense, defense and special teams. There were three dominant running teams this year; The Washington Redskins, Minnesota Vikings, and Seattle Seahawks. They finished 1-2-3 in rushing yards. Meanwhile the Colts were 29th in rushing yards. And their defense was bad (as was Washington's)

Andrew Luck was the Colts. He was their best player by far, and the offense had to run through him exclusively because of it. By choice, they also decided to keep a sophisticated passing game in place and make him learn/run it as a rookie. There were some struggles (the interceptions) but by and large he ran an NFL passing offense as well as a rookie has ever run it. 4372 yards, 23 TDs, 19 picks is one of the most successful rookie years every. Going from 2-14 to 11-5 is one of the bigger jumps every, and most all of it is due to the rookie QB. Oh yeah, he lost his coach for some of the season too.

RGIII AND Wilson ran the new "pistol" type offenses as well as they can be run. It was quite incredible. Both had better years than Luck and both had rookie campaigns for the ages. But their coaches looked at their rookie QBs and purposely played to their strengths.

Since you bring up Wilson, let's focus on him. No team asked their QB to pass less, and no team ran more. They were literally 1st in rushing attempts and dead last in pass attempts. IOW - They put in a perfect offense for Wilson. To his credit, he ran it extremely well, almost perfectly.

But despite your protests, I think Rob Viking got it right. Give Luck the second best back in the league, a better offensive line, and one of the top defenses in the league, and he more than likely wins more than 11 games. Make Wilson (or RGIII) run the kind of offense that Luck had to, and they probably finish with more losses.

You really can't go wrong with any of these guys. 3 of the best rookie seasons ever, and 3 of the most promising QBs in the league. I don't think I'd say either RGIII or Wilson is clearly better in every aspect than Luck though. I'd say all 3 are damn good at what they do, and if you redrafted... I bet Luck still goes first overall.




Prescott -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/14/2013 5:38:30 PM)

Just to complete this thought. I would have traded for either Luck or RGIII. I said so before the draft.

Going into the draft, I had Luck slightly better than RGIII. Seeing them both play, RGIII was an even better passer than I thought. If he had ended the season injury free, and being injured were not a concern, in a 'do over' draft I would take him over Luck, slightly.

Of course, injury was a concern and he shredded his knee. Throws it off. But man could that guy throw and run like I've never seen.




thebigo -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/14/2013 9:26:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prescott

quote:

It just kills some people that Luck is not the best QB


quote:


Wilson is already a BETTER QB than Luck in every possible dimension


It seems like it kills you that Luck is actually a damn good QB himself, tbh.



No pattern there.




marty -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/14/2013 9:38:11 PM)

Wilson had the better supporting cast, taking over a 7-9 team, while Luck and RGIII had 3 win teams. Lynch is argueably the 2nd best back in the league, and Seattle has a better defense than the other 2 teams.

Wilson was simply spectacular on Sunday, and got his team one weak farther than Luck did his team. I think Seattle has a better defense, the Indy defense over-achieved, partly because of Luck, and I think partly because of the HC's health. Luck didn't benefit from having a great RB, therefore his defense was likely to get less rest.

Luck DID seem to make more game winning TDs, and did quite well in that area, despite an aging but decent Reggie Wayne as his #1 WR. I think Sidney Rice is a better option, a larger radius, but that is not a significant difference. Wilson didn't have to make as many game winners as his team dominated more often. Wilson plays spectacularly but came up short in the Rose Bowl, and came up short at Atlanta. He keeps playing like that and he should eventually win a SB, maybe multiple SBs.

I think Luck is going to need a lot more help to reach a SB, and I sort of expect Indy to slide a little bit next year, not having the same edge they played with this year. I expect Seattle to have a similar season, probably going farther in the playoffs next year.




Rob Viking -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/15/2013 8:52:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prescott

quote:

It just kills some people that Luck is not the best QB


quote:


Andrew Luck was the Colts. He was their best player by far, and the offense had to run through him exclusively because of it. By choice, they also decided to keep a sophisticated passing game in place and make him learn/run it as a rookie. There were some struggles (the interceptions) but by and large he ran an NFL passing offense as well as a rookie has ever run it. 4372 yards, 23 TDs, 19 picks is one of the most successful rookie years every. Going from 2-14 to 11-5 is one of the bigger jumps every, and most all of it is due to the rookie QB. Oh yeah, he lost his coach for some of the season too.

Since you bring up Wilson, let's focus on him. No team asked their QB to pass less, and no team ran more. They were literally 1st in rushing attempts and dead last in pass attempts. IOW - They put in a perfect offense for Wilson. To his credit, he ran it extremely well, almost perfectly.


This




Trekgeekscott -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/15/2013 8:57:31 AM)

When it comes to rookie seasons all three did very well.

Luck, Wilson and RG3 were all very very good....

Cam Newton looked phenomenal last year.  He had a very typical sophomore slump.  Which of those three will most likely have a sophomore slump next year?  Wilson has a good team around him and isn't asked to do too much.  Luck's natural talent raised his team despite having a lot of subpar players around him.  RG3 is coming off of a major knee injury.

I would predict Griffin III will have the worst of the sophomore slumps.  Followed by Luck.  Wilson has a good team around him and the coaching staff will limit what he needs to do, so I predict the lightest of slumps there.   But now other teams have an entire season of film of each to watch and devise effective defenses. 





Rob Viking -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/15/2013 9:11:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prescott

Just to complete this thought. I would have traded for either Luck or RGIII. I said so before the draft.

Going into the draft, I had Luck slightly better than RGIII. Seeing them both play, RGIII was an even better passer than I thought. If he had ended the season injury free, and being injured were not a concern, in a 'do over' draft I would take him over Luck, slightly.

Of course, injury was a concern and he shredded his knee. Throws it off. But man could that guy throw and run like I've never seen.


I agree, I wanted one of them, mainly RGIII because it would have taken 5 1st rounders and Peterson to get Luck from the Colts.

RGIII slightly exceeded my expectations. I thought he would look great at time but would have some turn over filled games, but that didn't happen at all. He took care of the ball as well anyone and it wasn't done in caretaker fashion. I hope he can stay healthy.




Prescott -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/15/2013 10:31:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

Cam Newton looked phenomenal last year.  He had a very typical sophomore slump. 


He got better as a passer (arguable I guess but better ypc, int rate, yards per completion), and aside from the TDs, was just as good a runner. I wouldn't really call this year a 'slump' for him, just not as much of an improvement as some people expected.




David Levine -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/15/2013 10:52:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prescott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

Cam Newton looked phenomenal last year.  He had a very typical sophomore slump. 


He got better as a passer (arguable I guess but better ypc, int rate, yards per completion), and aside from the TDs, was just as good a runner. I wouldn't really call this year a 'slump' for him, just not as much of an improvement as some people expected.


He had a very slow slow start this year, but finished strong.

8 total TDs vs 8 INTs in Sep/Oct
19 total TDs vs 4 INTs in Nov/Dec




Rob Viking -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/15/2013 11:20:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prescott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

Cam Newton looked phenomenal last year.  He had a very typical sophomore slump. 


He got better as a passer (arguable I guess but better ypc, int rate, yards per completion), and aside from the TDs, was just as good a runner. I wouldn't really call this year a 'slump' for him, just not as much of an improvement as some people expected.


He had a very slow slow start this year, but finished strong.

8 total TDs vs 8 INTs in Sep/Oct
19 total TDs vs 4 INTs in Nov/Dec


Cam has set himself up well for next season. He's a player that might enjoy his own press cliping a little too much. His humbling start to the season should help him going forward.

I can see the Panthers being a solid team next season and grabbing the NFC South. They had 7 wins but lost some really tough games to Seattle, TB, and Atlanta that really could have turned their season around.




SoMnFan -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/16/2013 3:58:32 AM)

The Chicago Bears ended their search for a new head coach early Wednesday morning when they made the decision to bring aboard Montreal Alouettes head coach Marc Trestman as the franchise's 14th head coach, an NFL source confirmed.
A noted quarterback guru, Trestman had been out of the NFL for eight years before his stint in the CFL that eventually led to his succeeding former head coach Lovie Smith, who was fired by the Chicago Bears on Dec. 31.
The Bears are expected to announce the move later Wednesday. The Chicago Tribune first reported the news.
Trestman, 57, recently signed an extension with the Alouettes that takes his deal through 2016, but it's likely he'll be allowed out of his CFL contract to join the Bears, according to a source.
Trestman is coming off an 11-7 season in the CFL. In five seasons with the Alouettes, Trestman led the team to three appearances in the Grey Cup, including consecutive championships in 2009 and 2010 in addition to being been named CFL coach of the year (2009).
Trestman interviewed for the second time for the job on Monday at the end of a process that included 12 other known candidates. Indianapolis Colts offensive coordinator Bruce Arians was among the finalists, along with Seattle Seahawks offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell.
Hall of Fame quarterback Steve Young, who worked with Trestman in 1995-96 in San Francisco, gave a strong endorsement for the coach Tuesday during "The Waddle and Silvy show" on ESPN 1000.
"Marc was still a young coach (when he worked in San Francisco). I thought he was (a) phenomenal coach," Young said. "What he is is a phenomenal offensive mind. He's a great game-day playcaller. I had Mike Holmgren, I had Mike Shanahan and Marc Trestman, and I would put Marc right in there. He's learned and grown, and I stay in touch with him. I don't know exactly why (he hadn't gotten a head-coaching job).
"He is thoughtful (person). He's not gonna scream at people. He'll get after people, but he's got a great stick and a carrot. That's what I think is great coaching: somebody who can understand the different gears and leverages that you have against players to make sure they're focused and ready to play football. So I don't know exactly why, but it's time. I thought it was time five to 10 years ago."
Despite Trestman's recent history in the CFL, he also possesses considerable experience in the NFL, where he's worked on staffs tutoring quarterbacks such as Young (49ers from 1995-96), Rich Gannon (Raiders from 2001-03), who was named the league's MVP in 2001, and Bernie Kosar (1989). Trestman also worked in 2007 with the New Orleans Saints as a consultant.
Other NFL stops for Trestman include Minnesota (two stints), Tampa Bay (1987, then again in 2001 as a senior offensive assistant for Jon Gruden), Detroit (1997), Arizona (1998-2000) and Miami (2004), as well as the University of Miami (1981-84), where he received his law degree.
Trestman spent 2005 and 2006 at North Carolina State before leaving in '08 for the CFL.
In addition to his duties as a coach, Trestman works during the offseason to prepare college quarterbacks for the NFL draft. Trestman worked with Jay Cutler and Bears backup Jason Campbell before their respective drafts.
Young expects Trestman and Cutler to click. Early in his career in Denver, Cutler worked with current Redskins coach Mike Shanahan, who also tutored Young in San Francisco. Young's past experience with Trestman leads him to believe that Cutler shouldn't have a problem working with the former Alouettes coach in Chicago.
Young played 23 games in 1995 and 1996 working with Trestman in San Francisco, and passed for 34 touchdown passes and 17 interceptions.
"Mike and Marc aren't exactly the same personalities, but they get to the same place," Young explained. "Mike's a predator. I'd say the same about Marc, but you wouldn't know it ahead of time; just different. I like them both. I love Mike Shanahan, trust me. But I would put Marc right in there."
According to his official website, Trestman has also worked with Cleveland Browns quarterback Brandon Weeden, Denver rookie Brock Osweiler, Tim Tebow of the New York Jets and Carolina's Jimmy Clausen.
In a testimonial on Trestman's website, Weeden said: "I thought it was my important few days leading up to the (2012) draft. Getting to get up on the board and talk through West Coast systems, and then be able to go out on the field and put some of those things to use. Marc is an extremely knowledgeable football mind and his obvious success everywhere he has been proves that he knows how to develop and teach quarterbacks."
Young said it's time Cutler worked with a quarterback guru such as Trestman but stressed the importance of the Bears quarterback being receptive to the coaching he'll now receive.
"There's a lot of great athletes in the NFL, and one of the things that keeps them from getting to their full potential is this idea that 'I'm such a great athlete, I just go out there and play. I'm that good,'" Young said. "Some of them are that good but never reach their full potential unless they go to school, especially quarterbacks. So if you have a willing participant in Jay Cutler and Marc Trestman, it could make some good music."
One of the candidates to interview for the position early in the process came away from his meeting with Chicago expecting the club to now hold Cutler to a higher level of accountability, in addition to administering some tough love to the quarterback, who has underachieved with the Bears.
The candidate said, "The person I spoke with said that is the plan."
The coach acknowledged that out of the candidate pool of potential Bears coaches, Trestman appeared to be the best suited to handle the job of elevating Cutler to prominence.
Young expects Cutler to thrive under the tutelage of Trestman.
"Jay's now old enough to see. I've got to believe that if someone came in and, in a resonant way, could speak to him ... that he would respond to that," Young said. "Why wouldn't you respond to that? I think he's ready for it. Part of it is just work. Part of it is really boring. It's like going to law school or med school: a lot of study. What I'm saying, to make the transition, and this is the most difficult part is you've got to turn the TV off. You've got to stay inside. You've got to put up your white board. You've got to memorize things. You have to get so you have reflexive recall. When you have reflexive recall, and you own all the data, you become Peyton Manning and Tom Brady."




John Childress -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/16/2013 11:16:11 AM)

Oregon coach Chip Kelly will be the new coach of the Philadelphia Eagles, league sources told ESPN.

Kelly re-emerged as a candidate recently and an agreement was just reached Wednesday.




Rob Viking -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/16/2013 11:30:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

Oregon coach Chip Kelly will be the new coach of the Philadelphia Eagles, league sources told ESPN.

Kelly re-emerged as a candidate recently and an agreement was just reached Wednesday.


Can he revitalize Vick?

He couldn't have gone to a better team Vick, McCoy, Jackson, Maclin and Bryce Brown all have great speed.




John Childress -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/16/2013 11:32:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Viking

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

Oregon coach Chip Kelly will be the new coach of the Philadelphia Eagles, league sources told ESPN.

Kelly re-emerged as a candidate recently and an agreement was just reached Wednesday.


Can he revitalize Vick?

He couldn't have gone to a better team Vick, McCoy, Jackson, Maclin and Bryce Brown all have great speed.

Yeah, custom made for him

Philly fans are furious

Most of them hate Vick and see Chip as a Vick guy because Foles is way too slow to run this offense

Gus Bradley was the blue collar favorite here




Rob Viking -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/16/2013 1:39:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Viking

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

Oregon coach Chip Kelly will be the new coach of the Philadelphia Eagles, league sources told ESPN.

Kelly re-emerged as a candidate recently and an agreement was just reached Wednesday.


Can he revitalize Vick?

He couldn't have gone to a better team Vick, McCoy, Jackson, Maclin and Bryce Brown all have great speed.

Yeah, custom made for him

Philly fans are furious

Most of them hate Vick and see Chip as a Vick guy because Foles is way too slow to run this offense

Gus Bradley was the blue collar favorite here


Bradley's done well in Seattle no doubt and I could sense the Philly fans need more of that blue collar mentality after a decade of Reid. Should be interesting no doubt.

Funny all the read-option success we are hearing now actually first started with Vick back in 2006 when the Falcons implemented it. It caught the league by storm for a couple of weeks but either Vick or the coaching staff couldn't fine tune it like the succesful ones have this year.




JT2 -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/16/2013 3:38:44 PM)

Not only is Manti Te'o overrated, turns out he's a liar and a fraud.

http://deadspin.com/5976517/manti-teos-dead-girlfriend-the-most-heartbreaking-and-inspirational-story-of-the-college-football-season-is-a-hoax




John Childress -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/16/2013 4:31:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

Not only is Manti Te'o overrated, turns out he's a liar and a fraud.

http://deadspin.com/5976517/manti-teos-dead-girlfriend-the-most-heartbreaking-and-inspirational-story-of-the-college-football-season-is-a-hoax


What a fraud

No way would I draft him




JT2 -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/16/2013 6:09:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

Not only is Manti Te'o overrated, turns out he's a liar and a fraud.

http://deadspin.com/5976517/manti-teos-dead-girlfriend-the-most-heartbreaking-and-inspirational-story-of-the-college-football-season-is-a-hoax


What a fraud

No way would I draft him



Didn't take very long for ND and Te'o to attempt some damage control.

ND says they knew about this three weeks ago. (But sat on it?)

Te'o says he is a poor victim of a cruel hoax.




Jeff Jesser -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/16/2013 6:32:03 PM)

I'm not buying it. Like a kid in ND wouldn't use something like Skype to talk to his "girlfriend" daily.




JT2 -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/16/2013 6:47:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I'm not buying it. Like a kid in ND wouldn't use something like Skype to talk to his "girlfriend" daily.


And he made statements in the past that he had visited her.

Two likely scenarios I think.

A publicity stunt.

He's gay, and fabricated the GF so as not to get outed.




Jeff Jesser -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/16/2013 7:00:16 PM)

1st one = pathetic

2nd one = really sad that he would think he "needs to"


but yeah. This adds up to 5+1 = gorilla.




John Childress -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/17/2013 10:17:02 AM)

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- The Jacksonville Jaguars hired Seattle defensive coordinator Gus Bradley as head coach Thursday, the latest move in the team's rebuilding project.

He joins general manager David Caldwell, who led the coaching search after being hired last week. Bradley will be introduced at a news conference at EverBank Field on Friday.




John Childress -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/17/2013 12:02:09 PM)

I can't believe dude is still trying to pretend he didn't know

nuts




John Childress -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/17/2013 12:54:47 PM)

[image]http://media.philly.com/images/400*300/teoing1.jpg[/image]




David Levine -> RE: Around The NFL (News) - 2012 (1/17/2013 1:02:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I'm not buying it. Like a kid in ND wouldn't use something like Skype to talk to his "girlfriend" daily.


And he made statements in the past that he had visited her.

Two likely scenarios I think.

A publicity stunt.

He's gay, and fabricated the GF so as not to get outed.


The 2nd one seems likely to me. Especially considering the whole religion/family/football aspects.




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