RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (Full Version)

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Black 47 -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/5/2015 10:46:49 AM)

Didn't CC Sabathia have an opt out, forcing the Yankees to cough up more to keep him? How'd that work for them?



CPAMAN -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/5/2015 10:59:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Black 47

Didn't CC Sabathia have an opt out, forcing the Yankees to cough up more to keep him? How'd that work for them?



Yes, and this is what I do not understand. Historically over the past three decades, there have been a handful of pitchers who pitched well up into their late 30's and maybe past age 40. Most big-league pitchers have three or four good seasons and that is it. Has no team learned from the Barry Zito or Kevin Brown contracts? Add Sabathia to the discussion. I don't get it. [sm=shrug.gif]



Black 47 -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/5/2015 12:24:57 PM)

I agree it is kind of slimy by Greinke. I don't feel bad for the Dodgers, but just from a loyalty standpoint...................slimy. They were willing to invest that much money in him, which was a huge risk. That's slimy for Greinke to opt out. Would he have given some of that money back had he been terrible the last few years?



CPAMAN -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/5/2015 4:37:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Black 47

I agree it is kind of slimy by Greinke. I don't feel bad for the Dodgers, but just from a loyalty standpoint...................slimy. They were willing to invest that much money in him, which was a huge risk. That's slimy for Greinke to opt out. Would he have given some of that money back had he been terrible the last few years?



This is what makes zero sense to me. The Dodgers are committed to pay Greinke for another three seasons. He could have totally sucked this season like Phil Hughes did or had been a DL case like Nolasco and the team has to pay him. So the Dodgers took a flyer on him and he had an excellent season. But he is being paid to have excellent seasons during the tenure of his contract. He is not being paid $23+ million per season to be average or even above average. And so he has a Cy Young type season commensurate with his current salary and still that isn't enough. Now, Greinke gets to play the market because of an opt-out clause and he can look for even more guaranteed money. I say F-you Zach Greinke. There is simply no excuse for this kind of crap. Honor your contract and play baseball for the Dodgers you POS.



DougD -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/5/2015 5:11:16 PM)

and opt out IS part of the contract..DA



CPAMAN -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/5/2015 6:42:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DougD

and opt out IS part of the contract..DA



Obviously. But the point is that the contract is unconscionable. This is one of the first things we learned in college business law. A contract has to be fair to both sides in order for it to be conscionable. The team, the Dodgers assumes 100% risk. They pay the player, Greinke, no matter whether he gets hurt or entirely sucks each and every season of the contract period. Meanwhile, and, oh and by the way, if Greinke does have a good season that the Dodgers are already paying him a guaranteed contract to hopefully have, he can opt out. That makes zero sense. So to pitch good for a season, something the Dodgers want, they can lose his services. But if he pitches like crap, they have to pay him anyway. Where is the logic in this? How is this a conscionable contract? Did I miss an entire chapter or two in business law 101?



DougD -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/6/2015 5:19:29 AM)

Just a silly hunch on my part, but I think the Dodgers were a little bit aware of the risk before offering up the deal.



Mr. Ed -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/6/2015 6:04:56 AM)

First teams to start dealing

Yo Ryan, how are all those trade partners lining up?

The Tampa Bay Rays and the Seattle Mariners teamed up for the first big trade of the MLB off-season, reaching an agreement on a six-player deal, according to CBSSports.com.

First baseman Logan Morrison and utility player Brad Miller headline the deal, which also sees Seattle pitcher Danny Farquhar headed to Tampa. In exchange, the Mariners will receive starting pitcher Nathan Karns, reliever C.J. Riefenhauser and outfield prospect Boog Powell.



Black 47 -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/6/2015 7:25:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Black 47

I agree it is kind of slimy by Greinke. I don't feel bad for the Dodgers, but just from a loyalty standpoint...................slimy. They were willing to invest that much money in him, which was a huge risk. That's slimy for Greinke to opt out. Would he have given some of that money back had he been terrible
the last few years?



This is what makes zero sense to me. The Dodgers are committed to pay Greinke for another three seasons. He could have totally sucked this season like Phil Hughes did or had been a DL case like Nolasco and the team has to
pay him. So the Dodgers took a flyer on him and he had an excellent season. But he is being paid to have excellent seasons during the tenure of his contract. He is not being paid $23+ million per season to be average or even above average. And so he has a Cy Young type season commensurate with his current salary and still that isn't enough. Now, Greinke gets to play the market because of an opt-out clause and he can look for even more guaranteed money. I say F-you Zach Greinke. There is simply no excuse for
this kind of crap. Honor your contract and play baseball for the Dodgers you POS.

In the age of demonizing the rich, it's odd people defend Greinke. I guess athletes get a free pass.



Mr. Ed -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/6/2015 8:31:10 AM)

Calling him an a-hole or POS for exercising an option that both sides agreed to contractually, is over the top.



Mr. Ed -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/6/2015 8:32:47 AM)

In today's sports world where the owners make obscene amounts of money, they should focus on contracts for the guys that make squat wages in the minors.

It's no wonder players try to cheat in order to get to the bigs and enjoy the spoils.



Mr. Ed -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/6/2015 4:06:39 PM)

Cubs said to be front-runner for Price.



Mr. Ed -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/6/2015 4:59:58 PM)

Received qualifying offers

Brett Anderson, SP (Dodgers)
Wei-Yin Chen, SP (Orioles)
Chris Davis, 1B (Orioles)
Ian Desmond, SS (Nationals)
Marco Estrada, SP (Blue Jays)
Dexter Fowler, OF (Cubs)
Yovani Gallardo, SP (Rangers)
Alex Gordon, OF (Royals)
Zack Greinke, SP (Dodgers)
Jason Heyward, OF (Cardinals)
Hisashi Iwakuma, SP (Mariners)
Howie Kendrick, 2B (Dodgers)
Ian Kennedy, SP (Padres)
John Lackey, SP (Cardinals)
Daniel Murphy, 2B/3B (Mets)
Colby Rasmus, OF (Astros)
Jeff Samardzija, SP (White Sox)
Justin Upton, OF (Padres)
Matt Wieters, C (Orioles)
Jordan Zimmermann, SP (Nationals)



Mr. Ed -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/6/2015 5:01:58 PM)

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/11/2015-16-top-50-mlb-free-agents-with-predictions.html#more-58933

Predicting

Pelfrey to KC for2 years

Madson 3 yrs/15mill w/ Twins

Predicting Twins will pursue Bastardo , but Madson only top 50 signee.



Steve Lentz -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/6/2015 5:38:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

First teams to start dealing

Yo Ryan, how are all those trade partners lining up?

The Tampa Bay Rays and the Seattle Mariners teamed up for the first big trade of the MLB off-season, reaching an agreement on a six-player deal, according to CBSSports.com.

First baseman Logan Morrison and utility player Brad Miller headline the deal, which also sees Seattle pitcher Danny Farquhar headed to Tampa. In exchange, the Mariners will receive starting pitcher Nathan Karns, reliever C.J. Riefenhauser and outfield prospect Boog Powell.


Boog Powell! Must be a grandson of the original.



Steve Lentz -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/6/2015 5:47:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/11/2015-16-top-50-mlb-free-agents-with-predictions.html#more-58933

Predicting

Pelfrey to KC for2 years

Madson 3 yrs/15mill w/ Twins

Predicting Twins will pursue Bastardo , but Madson only top 50 signee.

The White Sox look to have interest AGAIN in quite a few players. One thing about their GM he is always looking and acting on ways to improve.[X(]



ewen21 -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/6/2015 7:07:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

First teams to start dealing

Yo Ryan, how are all those trade partners lining up?

The Tampa Bay Rays and the Seattle Mariners teamed up for the first big trade of the MLB off-season, reaching an agreement on a six-player deal, according to CBSSports.com.

First baseman Logan Morrison and utility player Brad Miller headline the deal, which also sees Seattle pitcher Danny Farquhar headed to Tampa. In exchange, the Mariners will receive starting pitcher Nathan Karns, reliever C.J. Riefenhauser and outfield prospect Boog Powell.


Boog Powell! Must be a grandson of the original.


Hey! You're Boog Powell!!



ewen21 -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/6/2015 7:11:02 PM)

LOL.....I actually found that commercial.

Take a look at what they cut away from at the beginning[&:]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8c6Ir2okLY
I am sure a bunch of people posting in this thread watched that game



CPAMAN -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/6/2015 7:13:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Calling him an a-hole or POS for exercising an option that both sides agreed to contractually, is over the top.


Then why are the Dodgers liable to pay him if he ill-performs? Shouldn't they also have an opt-out clause? You are not understanding the point I am making here Ed. There is NOTHING fair about a one-sided contract. I believe they call it extortion. And yes, Greinke is a POS for being part of it and playing it through like this.



CPAMAN -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/6/2015 7:15:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

In today's sports world where the owners make obscene amounts of money, they should focus on contracts for the guys that make squat wages in the minors.

It's no wonder players try to cheat in order to get to the bigs and enjoy the spoils.



I am all for that. IMO, AAA level players should be making in the $60,000+ range. AA in the $40-$50,000 range.



drew -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/6/2015 7:23:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Calling him an a-hole or POS for exercising an option that both sides agreed to contractually, is over the top.


Then why are the Dodgers liable to pay him if he ill-performs? Shouldn't they also have an opt-out clause? You are not understanding the point I am making here Ed. There is NOTHING fair about a one-sided contract. I believe they call it extortion. And yes, Greinke is a POS for being part of it and playing it through like this.


Do you understand how a contract works? I believe both sides have to agree to a contract, but I could be mistaken.



ewen21 -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/6/2015 7:41:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drew

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Calling him an a-hole or POS for exercising an option that both sides agreed to contractually, is over the top.


Then why are the Dodgers liable to pay him if he ill-performs? Shouldn't they also have an opt-out clause? You are not understanding the point I am making here Ed. There is NOTHING fair about a one-sided contract. I believe they call it extortion. And yes, Greinke is a POS for being part of it and playing it through like this.


Do you understand how a contract works? I believe both sides have to agree to a contract, but I could be mistaken.


Have you even read what he said?

He understands how the damn thing works, but doesn't agree with certain stipulations the players are able to make. It's so freaking cockeyed in their favor it is ridiculous.

And I agree wtih him



drew -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/6/2015 7:49:21 PM)

Yeah, I have read what he said. He doesn't like that Greinke opted out of his contract because the Dodgers assume all the risk in the contract. And I am totally shocked that you agree with him, that rarely happens.

I am also sure you two will be consistent in your stance on being on the team side when it comes to contracts. Like, I bet you won't complain when the Twins don't spend any money this year because the contracts they would have to offer FA's would be skewed to the player's favor.

I just think you like to have something to bitch about.



ewen21 -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/6/2015 8:00:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drew

Yeah, I have read what he said. He doesn't like that Greinke opted out of his contract because the Dodgers assume all the risk in the contract. And I am totally shocked that you agree with him, that rarely happens.

I am also sure you two will be consistent in your stance on being on the team side when it comes to contracts. Like, I bet you won't complain when the Twins don't spend any money this year because the contracts they would have to offer FA's would be skewed to the player's favor.

I just think you like to have something to bitch about.


I see you've studied me extensively[&o]

Please don't concoct my opinions for me.

I am not interested in this team throwing around dollars. I would rather see them make trades.
Not interested in signing a free agent pitcher AT ALL.



CPAMAN -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (11/6/2015 8:03:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ewen21

quote:

ORIGINAL: drew

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Calling him an a-hole or POS for exercising an option that both sides agreed to contractually, is over the top.


Then why are the Dodgers liable to pay him if he ill-performs? Shouldn't they also have an opt-out clause? You are not understanding the point I am making here Ed. There is NOTHING fair about a one-sided contract. I believe they call it extortion. And yes, Greinke is a POS for being part of it and playing it through like this.


Do you understand how a contract works? I believe both sides have to agree to a contract, but I could be mistaken.


Have you even read what he said?

He understands how the damn thing works, but doesn't agree with certain stipulations the players are able to make. It's so freaking cockeyed in their favor it is ridiculous.

And I agree wtih him



Correct Ralph. I will make one final comment on this topic and I will let it go. Here is how a opt-out clause could or should work in order to have it be more fair or at least have give and take. Let's say Greinke signed for five years. I am not certain of the original length of his contract, but let's call it five years. He signs for say $120 million or an average of $24 million per season. The contract is guaranteed for the duration of the contract so that is great for Greinke. High risk to the Dodgers. But Greinke says, I may want to play for a different team after two years of the contract. I may want a different venue. I may pitch exceptionally well, and I would like to test the FA market after two seasons. The Dodgers agree, but on the condition they also have an opt-out or potential contract adjustment. Let's say that Greinke gets hurt or really sucks during the first three seasons of his contract. Greinke gets paid his full salary for those first three seasons as per the original contract. However, because Greinke, who obviously did not exercise his opt-out clause after season two because he sucked allows the team an opt-out or contract adjustment after the third season. The parameters would have to be decided between the sides at the time the contract was originally signed. But let's say that Greinke agreed his total combined ERA over the three seasons had to be 4.50 or less; or that his win total had to be a minimum of say 35 wins. If Greinke failed to achieve either of these performance parameters, he still gets paid for the final two seasons but at a lesser annual amount in the final two years of his contract. So instead of getting $24 million each of the final two seasons, he gets a lesser amount that he and the Dodgers agreed to. Let's say $15 million per season. So the contract is still guaranteed for five seasons, but there is a performance clause in the contract and the performance clause is the trade-off the team requires because Greinke is given a two-year opt-out clause. Now THAT would be a more fair contract. There is a give and take on both sides. The existing contract is extortion because the Dodgers have zero leverage.



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