RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (Full Version)

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TJSweens -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/29/2020 10:33:26 AM)

The whole thing got worse when MLB tried to police it by implementing the warning protocol. It used to be that pitchers were more mindful of hitting someone when they knew there was a threat of retaliation. Now a batter gets hit, the umpire warns both dugouts and the next pitch that hits a batter results in the pitcher and manager getting ejected. Now pitchers are free to drill someone without fear of retaliation. They just had to be the first pitcher to hit somebody. C Cup Sabathia was notorious for it when he pitched for Cleveland against the Twins. You could set your watch by it. He would reach back and drill a Twins hitter in the ribs, Gardy would run out like a red faced buffoon and get tossed, the game would resume with no fear of reprisal from a Twins pitcher.




kgdabom -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/29/2020 10:41:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Even in softball it's amazing how many times a pitch inside gets the moms and dads riled up., and the batter uncomfortable.

My daughter is very good at hitting the corner inside for strikes while the batter's feet are moving back. Most of the time the at bat finishes well for her.

As long as she's trying to throw strikes good for her. If she is trying to hit the batter I lose respect. Softballs IIRC are softer than baseballs and can't be thrown as fast so much less risk of significant harm. Am I correct about this?




Mr. Ed -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/29/2020 10:46:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Even in softball it's amazing how many times a pitch inside gets the moms and dads riled up., and the batter uncomfortable.

My daughter is very good at hitting the corner inside for strikes while the batter's feet are moving back. Most of the time the at bat finishes well for her.

As long as she's trying to throw strikes good for her. If she is trying to hit the batter I lose respect. Softballs IIRC are softer than baseballs and can't be thrown as fast so much less risk of significant harm. Am I correct about this?



Softer?

Maybe. but not by much.

but bigger, so throwing them around 60mph, which is pretty average for older kids, hurts plenty.

I've had the bruises to prove it.




kgdabom -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/29/2020 11:35:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Even in softball it's amazing how many times a pitch inside gets the moms and dads riled up., and the batter uncomfortable.

My daughter is very good at hitting the corner inside for strikes while the batter's feet are moving back. Most of the time the at bat finishes well for her.

As long as she's trying to throw strikes good for her. If she is trying to hit the batter I lose respect. Softballs IIRC are softer than baseballs and can't be thrown as fast so much less risk of significant harm. Am I correct about this?



Softer?

Maybe. but not by much.

but bigger, so throwing them around 60mph, which is pretty average for older kids, hurts plenty.

I've had the bruises to prove it.

Right. A softball thrown at 60 can bruise. What can a baseball thrown at 100 do. Possibly kill?




SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/29/2020 12:24:22 PM)

Some awesome back-and-forth in that one
Kelly has some real animosity, love it


What in the world could have ever caused this ????? [&:][&:][&:]
Bregman, Correa, and the rest are getting exactly what they deserve.
Cheaters got caught, and then talked more shit, instead of asking for forgiveness.
Everything they get is self-inflicted, imo. Stay after em.




Mr. Ed -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/29/2020 12:46:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Some awesome back-and-forth in that one
Kelly has some real animosity, love it


What in the world could have ever caused this ????? [&:][&:][&:]
Bregman, Correa, and the rest are getting exactly what they deserve.
Cheaters got caught, and then talked more shit, instead of asking for forgiveness.
Everything they get is self-inflicted, imo. Stay after em.


Just a guess

But the bold part is likely the biggest reason others are ticked.

You got caught yet eh, no biggie, we're the champs, f u attitude.




SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/29/2020 12:52:57 PM)

Bregman Verlander and Altuve basically said just that, imo ….
So what they get now, is expected.




kgdabom -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/29/2020 5:23:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Bregman Verlander and Altuve basically said just that, imo ….
So what they get now, is expected.

Fans can boo them or whatever. They have been punished by MLB. Time to move on IMO. When it comes to throwing at people that is assault and should be subject to criminal punishment. If you can't take a baseball or a rock and throw it at somebody outside of a baseball game why should you be allowed to do it during a baseball game. I know throwing at people is a time honored tradition in baseball, but it shouldn't be. How badly would one of these flame throwing baseball pitchers be prosecuted if they did it outside of a baseball game. I think they would get years in prison. Why is the worst punishment they get for doing it in a game being ejected?




twinsfan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/29/2020 6:25:10 PM)

Joe Kelly calling Bregman a bitch sure is the pot calling the kettle black.




SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/29/2020 8:11:51 PM)

Nice of Manfred yo act all tough against joe Kelly.
Who on the Asterisks is he so god damned scared of?
Refuses to punish them.
Protects them like babies.
I’d start the investigation. Now.
He’s been paid off somehow. Jack wagon.




Mr. Ed -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/29/2020 8:37:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Nice of Manfred yo act all tough against joe Kelly.
Who on the Asterisks is he so god damned scared of?
Refuses to punish them.
Protects them like babies.
I’d start the investigation. Now.
He’s been paid off somehow. Jack wagon.

Pathetic

8 games for no contact

Manfred is the worst commissioner in MLB history.




SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/29/2020 8:39:13 PM)

Gutless wonder




Mr. Ed -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/29/2020 8:48:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Gutless wonder


Ass-hat of the highest degree

Let's raise minor league salaries (YAY)

Let's pay for it by getting rid of a bunch of teams (ASS HAT)




SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/29/2020 8:50:33 PM)

Team cheats blatantly and wins it all
“Let’s not rush to judgement”
Fed up pros take out their anger the next season
“Not on my watch here’s an 8 game suspension”.

As you say. Asshat.




kgdabom -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/29/2020 11:17:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Team cheats blatantly and wins it all
“Let’s not rush to judgement”
Fed up pros take out their anger the next season
“Not on my watch here’s an 8 game suspension”.

As you say. Asshat.

8 game suspension was too lenient.




Ricky J -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/29/2020 11:42:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Team cheats blatantly and wins it all
“Let’s not rush to judgement”
Fed up pros take out their anger the next season
“Not on my watch here’s an 8 game suspension”.

As you say. Asshat.

8 game suspension was too lenient.

Oh my God! You can't be serious!?




Karl Juhnke -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/30/2020 6:24:04 AM)

So Kelly never even hit anybody, and he gets more punishment than Cheaty Gonzalez or any other Astro player for stealing a World Series.

Great job, MLB.




Mr. Ed -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/30/2020 6:29:31 AM)

https://sports.yahoo.com/a-modest-hero-consider-the-lesson-joe-kellys-chin-music-taught-the-astros-003855326.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=1_02

So, Joe Kelly’s a hero now, because the Los Angeles Dodgers reliever missed Alex Bregman’s head with a baseball and then school-yard goofed on Carlos Correa and the next day was suspended for eight games in a 60-game season.

The Houston Astros won’t be coming back from that. They have been taught their lesson. They’re probably right now packing up their rings and sending them out to L.A.

“Sorry. Love, Alex and the rest of the fellas.”

These are important teaching moments. Cheating in baseball is bad, as the Astros were counseled Tuesday night in Houston, after months of mere public humiliation. Cheat and your third baseman might very well end up on his back or on his front, but either way in the dirt, bleeding from the head, maybe dead, and very regretful.

Then all the guys who know how the game should be played could agree that he had it coming and shrug, because what’re you gonna do, it’s just the way it works, been played that way forever, and hell the guy shoulda known it was coming.

Maiming the other third baseman is as good as a championship parade. Everybody knows that. Or maybe it corrects history. One of the two.

“Deserved it,” said a former big leaguer in a television broadcast booth Wednesday afternoon.

There you go.

It’s a hard, necessary lesson. Which made Joe Kelly the perfect man for the job.

See, it’s not just about the content of the message, but the standing of the messenger. That person, in this case Joe Kelly, is best received when he comes from a place of knowledge. A place of authority. A place of empathy. Been around, seen it all. And, oh, he has one of those rings himself.

This is the best part.

Joe Kelly, who can throw a fastball something like a hundred miles an hour, threw one of those over and behind Alex Bregman’s head. Had he been listening, Bregman might have heard this lecture:

The game must be played fairly. Otherwise, there will be consequences. In cheating at baseball games, there are no innocents. Not the man who ordered the system, not the man who devised the system, not the man who hung the TV or wired the camera. Not the man who knew what pitch was coming. Not the man on the top step, or the coach nearby, who watched it happen, and who also benefited. Not a single man in that clubhouse, from the star third baseman to the middle reliever, because they knew and they went along and they said nothing and they swallowed their consciences. They stole a championship. They injured the game.

That’s what Joe Kelly’s fastball said, heard from the ballyard in Houston to a corner office in New York, that the game does not forget and that the game sees everyone and there are no excuses.

What made that fastball heroic, however, was not in the damage it could have caused (impressive as it might have been), but in the solidarity it presented. Because, of course, Joe Kelly has lived the nightmare that is a tainted championship, a league investigation that ensues and a penalty that comes to be viewed as laughably light and misdirected. He made 85 appearances for the Boston Red Sox in 2018, 12 of those appearances in a postseason that ended in a World Series title.

Later, it was discovered that those Red Sox had cheated. It was said the World Series was tainted. That all of them, from the star third baseman to the middle reliever, had benefited. The person who was punished for that was a replay room operator. The Red Sox lost a draft pick. By the time it all shook out, Joe Kelly was already a Dodger, for $25 million over three seasons.

Then on a Tuesday night in July 2020, nearly three years since the Astros had cheated their way to a championship, two since the Red Sox had won theirs, and about half a year since both were found to be less than competitively pristine, Joe Kelly looked in at Alex Bregman and considered a three-and-oh count, a three-run lead and the bases empty.

This, clearly, was not the time to fold in the face of hypocrisy, but to embrace it. Only then would Bregman, would all of the Astros from 2017, understand the repercussions of their past behavior. Someday, maybe, they will be in a place to pass along that lesson. And then they’ll remember Joe Kelly. Hero.




Mr. Ed -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/30/2020 8:15:45 AM)

https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/07/30/mlb-botches-astros-dodgers-punishments-joe-kelly

You’ll never believe this, but MLB commissioner Rob Manfred messed up this week. I’m not referring to the way he allowed the Marlins to play amid a coronavirus outbreak that at last count has stricken 16 players and two coaches; his juking the league’s COVID testing stats by using samples, not people, as the denominator; or his contention that this disaster does not qualify as a “nightmare.”

No, Manfred, perhaps nostalgic for the days when people were just arguing about perhaps the worst scandal in the history of the sport, relit the dying embers of the baseball world’s rage at the Astros, who cheated their way through their 2017 championship season.

On Tuesday, for the first time since Houston’s misdeeds came to light, the Astros faced the Dodgers, the team they beat in that World Series. The L.A. players spent the winter seething, but the game remained remarkably civil through the first five and a half innings. Then Dodgers righty Joe Kelly entered the game.

Kelly misfired a ball through a window in his house this spring, so he insisted after the game that the 3–0 fastball he launched at Alex Bregman’s head was an accident.

“My accuracy isn’t the best,” said Kelly, who yawned after throwing the pitch.

The next hitter, Michael Brantley, bounced a ball to first. Kelly, covering the base, collided with Brantley, who was ruled safe. Afterward, Kelly dawdled by the bag. “Just get on the mound, m----- f-----!” yelled a voice from the Houston dugout.

Two batters later, Kelly whiffed Carlos Correa on a knuckle curve in the dirt. “Nice swing, b----!” Kelly shouted as he walked off the mound, sticking out his tongue and contorting his face into something like a grimace.

The benches cleared. Players and coaches milled around on the field, some masked, some not. Few of them observed social distancing regulations. Eventually, without throwing a punch, they returned to their dugouts.

On Wednesday, the league announced that Kelly would be suspended for eight games—which, in a 162-game season, would amount to 22. Kelly appealed the ruling. (L.A. manager Dave Roberts was suspended for one game; Astros manager Dusty Baker was fined.)

Within minutes, other players began weighing in. It escaped no one’s notice that the Astros players themselves had not been punished at all for their cheating; Manfred granted them immunity in exchange for honesty.

“And what do the Astros players deserve?” tweeted Indians righty Mike Clevinger. “Just snitch and walk free and still seem confused as to why everyone is mad?”

“MLB siding with/protecting a team that openly and knowingly cheated their way to a World Series,” tweeted Mets righty Marcus Stroman. “He doesn’t deserve to be suspended at all. Hoping he wins his appeal. Looking forward to seeing you back out there JK!”

“YO FREE JOE KELLY,” tweeted Angels righty Keynan Middleton.

The players are speaking from a place of emotion. You can argue about the length of the suspension, but adults should not hurl 96-mph projectiles at one another with impunity. The real issue with the league’s punishment is that it fails to address the bigger problem: You can’t get in someone else’s face during a pandemic.

MLB paid lip service to this idea in its 113-page operations manual. “Fighting and instigating fights are strictly prohibited,” reads the text. “Players must not make physical contact with others for any reason unless it occurs in normal and permissible game action. Violations of these rules will result in severe discipline consistent with past precedent, which discipline shall not be reduced or prorated based on the length of the season.”

If Manfred wanted to send that message on Wednesday, he would have fined every person who left his dugout $50,000. That would put an end to this nonsense, and it would remind the players of the real dangers they pose to one another. Instead, we’re back to talking about the Astros.




Mr. Ed -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/30/2020 8:36:25 AM)

Other reactions

I’m sure this horse has been beat plenty today, but Joe Kelly gets an equivalent of a 21.6 game suspension, but some players previously suspended for domestic violence during the regular season have received as low as 15 to 30 games?

Can't wait until Rob Manfred is no longer commissioner of baseball.

It’s impressive how he gets EVERYTHING wrong.




Commissioner Rob Manfred can suspend players without pay or service time for electronic sign stealing, per new rules agreed to by MLB and the MLBPA
Ohhh goody, we just let a team get away with it to win a World Series, but the NEXT time...




SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/30/2020 8:39:33 AM)

You reap what you sow
That applies to Manfred
And the Asterisks




TJSweens -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/30/2020 8:44:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

You reap what you sow
That applies to Manfred
And the Asterisks

I was sad to hear Roy Boy defending the suspension on the Twins broadcast.




Mr. Ed -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/30/2020 8:47:20 AM)

Yep,

And Clevinger, as much as i Can't stand him, is exactly right.

“And what do the Astros players deserve?” tweeted Indians righty Mike Clevinger. “Just snitch and walk free and still seem confused as to why everyone is mad?”

Spot On




SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/30/2020 8:56:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

You reap what you sow
That applies to Manfred
And the Asterisks

I was sad to hear Roy Boy defending the suspension on the Twins broadcast.

Agreed
I cringed
One of the few times he took the easy route




kgdabom -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (7/30/2020 10:28:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

You reap what you sow
That applies to Manfred
And the Asterisks

I was sad to hear Roy Boy defending the suspension on the Twins broadcast.

Agreed
I cringed
One of the few times he took the easy route

The suspension wasn't long enough. It's never OK to throw a hard object at another human being and this psychopath macho man went for his head. Fuk the baseball tradition. Throwing at players has to stop.




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