RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (Full Version)

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Todd M -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/28/2015 6:11:59 AM)

Better fumble analysis?

http://drewfustin.com/2015/01/27/patriots-fumble-comments/




John Childress -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/28/2015 7:39:47 AM)

I am just as tired of hearing about Lynch not talking to the media

WHO CARES?

I don't need football players to hold press conferences

I need them to play hard and win




djskillz -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/28/2015 8:41:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Better fumble analysis?

http://drewfustin.com/2015/01/27/patriots-fumble-comments/


Excellent, Todd. The hate and blindness on this issue is almost comical from those against the Patriots at this point.




Lynn G. -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/28/2015 9:08:57 AM)

Sorry Dustin, but the protecting and apologizing from the other side is pretty funny too.




djskillz -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/28/2015 9:21:27 AM)

Protecting/apologizing? Every detail that comes out makes it look more and more like nothing ever happened. And there has never been any proof whatsoever of "cheating" on this issue. None.




Lynn G. -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/28/2015 9:59:05 AM)

You're viewing things from the point of view of someone who really, really hopes that the Patriots did nothing wrong. I disagree that it looks like nothing ever happened, and I understand that unless someone actually confesses to something there may never be actual proof.

In the end I'm not going to get too unwound about it because there are plenty of things that ALL teams do to push the boundaries of the rules and in some cases I think the league looks the other way because enforcement is a messy thing when something is widespread. Other times, teams (or coaches) get nailed. And it's clear that some teams get more of the benefit of the doubt on calls, etc. than others do. It's one of the reasons I have semi backed away from the NFL in recent years, which is a shame.




DavidAOlson -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/28/2015 10:47:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Better fumble analysis?

http://drewfustin.com/2015/01/27/patriots-fumble-comments/


After reading it, I'm skeptical that it's better. There are a few other attempt to pass off the differences as non-issue.

Brady (and Manning) lobbied for a significant rule change in 2006. It went into effect in 2007. The Patriot immediately went from league average rates of fumbling to drastically lower rates. The one exceptional year, 2013, included an unusually bad game in Denver --- 6 fumbles --- in unusually bad weather.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/warren-sharp/stats-show-the-new-englan_b_6555802.html

The fundamental problem with any apologia is that the change is dramatic, and immediately after a rule change. What did the Patriots do differently in 2007?

So let's run a controlled experiment: next season have all game balls pressure checked on the field, after they have sat outside for a couple hours. No filling them indoors with hot, wet sauna air, and no many chances for subsequent tampering.

We're not dealing with a pure-as-gently-falling-snow coach. Belichick has an established history of cheating. With him, I start suspicious.


And I'm back to my real question: how many wins are added by that change in fumbling rate? Anyone seen anything?




djskillz -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/28/2015 11:16:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynn G.

You're viewing things from the point of view of someone who really, really hopes that the Patriots did nothing wrong. I disagree that it looks like nothing ever happened, and I understand that unless someone actually confesses to something there may never be actual proof.

In the end I'm not going to get too unwound about it because there are plenty of things that ALL teams do to push the boundaries of the rules and in some cases I think the league looks the other way because enforcement is a messy thing when something is widespread. Other times, teams (or coaches) get nailed. And it's clear that some teams get more of the benefit of the doubt on calls, etc. than others do. It's one of the reasons I have semi backed away from the NFL in recent years, which is a shame.


Again, keeping aside the absurdity of and perceived advantage of deflated balls vs. scuffing/heating/overinflating, etc. in the first place, which is all disputed by science, look at the facts as we know them:

The referees inspected the balls pre-game and gave them the go-ahead that they were all within a range of 12.5 psi to 13.5 psi. We actually still don't know if they PROPERLY inspected them. ie a gauge vs. just a "thumb test"
The only unaccounted, not in the open time with the balls that we know of is when an equipment manager went to a locked restroom for 90 seconds out of camera view. It's very hard to believe that he could "deflate" 12 footballs in 90 seconds.
The rest of the time, the footballs appear to be accounted for, out in the open of media/officials, team personnel, etc.
In the 2-3 hours following inspection 10 of the 12 Patriots' balls fell below the 12.5 psi by as much as about 1 psi (not the 2 that was erroneously first leaked).
The balls were properly brought back up to the 12.5-13.5 range at halftime.
Multiple studies have shown that based on the temperature conditions (70 degree environment to 50 degree, wet environment) footballs could lose as much as 1.95 psi under the timeline that we know.
The Patriots' HOF owner, head coach, and QB have all vehemently denied the allegations and have essentially staked their entire reputations on them being false.

The facts as we know them do not amount to any tampering whatsoever. Again, the most logical explanation, given what we know, is that the Colts' footballs were inflated on the high end of the official psi range (13.5) as Luck apparently likes his footballs, and the Patriots were inflated to the low end (12.5) as Brady likes them, and all footballs lost about 1 psi over the course of the hours due to the change in temperature/humidity. OR the official never properly inspected them in the first place.

There's not a plausible explanation, given the facts we know, that explains the Patriots tampering with or deflating all 12 balls.




John Childress -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/28/2015 1:47:07 PM)

The facts as we know them do not amount to any tampering whatsoever. Again, the most logical explanation, given what we know, is that the Colts' footballs were inflated on the high end of the official psi range (13.5) as Luck apparently likes his footballs, and the Patriots were inflated to the low end (12.5) as Brady likes them, and all footballs lost about 1 psi over the course of the hours due to the change in temperature/humidity. OR the official never properly inspected them in the first place.

Agree with this

Either way, teams lose on the field




DavidAOlson -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/28/2015 1:53:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz
...
Multiple studies have shown that based on the temperature conditions (70 degree environment to 50 degree, wet environment) footballs could lose as much as 1.95 psi under the timeline that we know. ...


You don't need studies for that. I got those numbers just by looking density/pressure/temp. And that's the precisely the point: fill the balls in the sauna (hot moist air), and they will pass the indoor inspection, and they will be underinflated on the field.

It's clever.


In any case, fivethirtyeight has a quick review of many articles on the topic...

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/your-guide-to-deflate-gateballghazi-related-statistical-analyses/




djskillz -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/28/2015 1:58:21 PM)

Wouldn't even need to be a sauna, DAO. They could have inflated them to 12.5 psi under completely normal circumstances and the footballs would have almost certainly fallen to around 1 psi below that mark in 2-3 hours with the outdoor conditions. I also still would be relatively shocked if the official actually took a gauge to all 24 footballs at inspection.

At any rate, there is literally no evidence to support tampering at this point. None.




Trekgeekscott -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/28/2015 2:29:59 PM)

The point that still bothers me is that the NFL allows teams to have control of the balls in the first place. They didn't have control of the balls, then we don't have to spend more than a week (and time leading up to the SB talking about Brady's balls...

If they learn anything from this, I really hope they learn that.




El Duderino -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/28/2015 4:43:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

The point that still bothers me is that the NFL allows teams to have control of the balls in the first place. They didn't have control of the balls, then we don't have to spend more than a week (and time leading up to the SB talking about Brady's balls...

If they learn anything from this, I really hope they learn that.


This. So very hard this.




John Childress -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/30/2015 8:50:16 AM)

Stephen A Smith is a complete jackass

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uJLHgZ1Irw




Trekgeekscott -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/30/2015 9:11:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

Stephen A Smith is a complete jackass

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uJLHgZ1Irw


Stephen A Smith is a jackass, but I don't really see it here. All he's doing is arguing the media's point of view that Lynch should answer questions and not act the jackass with "I'm just here so I don't get fined".

Arian Foster destroys Smith's argument. Smith lost the debate but I don't see him being a jackass here. He's arguing a media member's point of view that the player should be required to answer questions.




John Childress -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/30/2015 9:16:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

Stephen A Smith is a complete jackass

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uJLHgZ1Irw


Stephen A Smith is a jackass, but I don't really see it here. All he's doing is arguing the media's point of view that Lynch should answer questions and not act the jackass with "I'm just here so I don't get fined".

Arian Foster destroys Smith's argument. Smith lost the debate but I don't see him being a jackass here. He's arguing a media member's point of view that the player should be required to answer questions.


You have to see Smith's original tirade against Lynch where he compared Lynch to the moral decay of America




John Childress -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/30/2015 9:17:27 AM)

Today, during The Stephen A. Smith Show on SiriusXM, Smith did his best to incite the masses into a feverish rage, as he characterized Lynch's behavior as "disgraceful and embarrassing."

Foaming at the mouth, Smith's criticism eventually devolved into a diatribe against Josh Gordon and weed and Johnny Manziel and our country's crumbling moral foundation or something. Apparently, our willingness to give Lynch a pass means that Johnny Manziel should be allowed to drive drunk?

Look, even if you can make sense of the argument, it's a very stupid one. Smith talks a lot about "precedent" and the "future generations" (because think of the children!) and bunch of other garbage that isn't worth your time.

http://www.complex.com/sports/2015/01/stephen-a-smith-furious-marshawn-lynch




SoMnFan -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/30/2015 9:56:44 AM)

Amazing how easy they make this look.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:12249674




Trekgeekscott -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/30/2015 9:59:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

Stephen A Smith is a complete jackass

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uJLHgZ1Irw


Stephen A Smith is a jackass, but I don't really see it here. All he's doing is arguing the media's point of view that Lynch should answer questions and not act the jackass with "I'm just here so I don't get fined".

Arian Foster destroys Smith's argument. Smith lost the debate but I don't see him being a jackass here. He's arguing a media member's point of view that the player should be required to answer questions.


You have to see Smith's original tirade against Lynch where he compared Lynch to the moral decay of America


Now that's being a jackass.

Why didn't you post THAT video?




John Childress -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/30/2015 10:10:49 AM)

I am glad Lynch is blasting the media

I can see how others don't like his behavior

But to say that Lynch is a part of the moral decay of American society?

pure BS

Ever since Smith got suspended he has carried the water for the establishment

Pure sell out




djskillz -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/30/2015 10:27:26 AM)

The media access is an interesting dilemna. Personally, I don't care about what any of these guys say; I don't pay attention to it for the most part. But I know there are several that do and I can understand how it's marketing for the game. I also understand how talking to the media is extremely difficult for some people; introverts (Lynch), those with anxiety disorders (Greinke in baseball), etc. So what do you do? Do you allow a certain amount of media exceptions on each team? The problem with that is that most teams would almost certainly pick their "star" guys. So the press wouldn't be able to talk to Brady, Wilson, Gronk, etc.

It's an interesting debate.




SoMnFan -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/30/2015 10:33:02 AM)

On the other hand, loved the Gronk interviews this past week.
An interesting perspective from him.
Did a great job of telling how grateful and humbled he is to get back to what was almost taken away from him. By injuries.
You can sense in him how much he appreciates what he has accomplished. IMO.




djskillz -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/30/2015 10:39:52 AM)

He and Watt are just freaks in the truest sense of the word. Amazing to watch both of those guys.




John Childress -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/30/2015 10:46:48 AM)

Yeah, and everyone loved Kirby Puckett and his interview and he was a despicable person
Just like OJ

Hell, I bet Hernandez gave great interviews also - while he was killing people




SoMnFan -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (1/30/2015 12:02:04 PM)

Liked how he talked about missing the game and his teammates, when he thought it was going to be taken from him.
That was all. [&o]




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