RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (Full Version)

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El Duderino -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/12/2015 5:19:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2015

Goodell may be the worst commissioner in memory


Sepp Blatter.



El Duderino -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/12/2015 5:29:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Again, the craziest part is that there is still no evidence/proof that the balls were underinflated in the first place! None! Read the report! Ideal Gas Law? Eh, that's just science. Let's throw that out. Brady's agent is exactly right; any arbitrator that is truly independent will throw this out immediately. If it's an NFL puppet arbitrator (like the investigation in the first place) all best are off.



I think the punishment is way excessive to be honest.

But

Just throw science out? Um...no

Brady should be given a minor fine. The team shouldn't be fined or lose draftpicks imho. But come on man. Let's not throw out science.


Scott, maybe you missed my sarcasm? I'm saying that's what the investigation did. The Ideal Gas Law basically points to the fact that the footballs were maybe properly inflated in the first place. Again, there is ZERO conclusive evidence that the balls were even underinflated! But as Kraft pointed out, the investigation dismissed even science.


Not to mention that Exponent, Inc. (the company that did the "science" for the Wells report) has a long history of manipulating the science in order to get the results their client is looking for. Studies that "prove" dumping oil waste doesn't cause cancer, second hand smoke is harmless, it wasn't a manufacturing defect that caused those Toyota accidents, and so on. When you have Goodell and these guys working together, it's hard for me to believe that shit is on the up-and-up.



El Duderino -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/12/2015 5:32:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

I think one of the main things covered up in this is the league wanting to protect itself from the lackadaisical "official measuring" process. It's been brought up by countless people that the officials barely ever gauge the balls (maybe 1-2) and then "check" most of them by feel. As someone in the know I heard this morning say: "no one goes and gauges all 24 footballs". And I still think that's likely what happened here to start the game. Which throws basically everything else out. The NFL just started this insane ball rolling so they have to cover that large fact up.



They're continuing to divert people from the great big gorilla in the room...that they don't manage the official game balls. That they allow the teams playing in the game to manage the game balls. The NFL could solve this "problem", if it really even is one, by simply taking control of game balls going forward. Team equipment managers don't get to touch the balls, ever. It wont effect our guy cause he wears gloves anyway...


This. So very this.

IF ensuring that the pressure of the balls is so key to the integrity of the game, why the hell does the league let ANYONE handle them before a game?



djskillz -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/12/2015 5:36:25 PM)

Exactly. In addition to letting them put them through high speed buffers, etc. (see Manning, Eli).

Good stuff Dude. I had no idea on the "science" company.



djskillz -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/13/2015 9:10:31 AM)

I buy all of this. Excellent piece from Florio.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/13/a-theory-on-how-deflategate-initially-unfolded/

Again, there is ZERO evidence the balls were even underinflated. The head ref himself believes (and has stated as such) that he used the gauge that would point to the fact that the balls naturally underinflated (Ideal Gas Law) to the readings found at the end.

Basically, the NFL is a bunch of bumbling idiots and they are trying to pin "cheating" on their premier team, rather than admit to their own incompetence.



El Duderino -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/13/2015 12:43:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Basically, the NFL is a bunch of bumbling idiots and they are trying to pin "cheating" on their premier team, rather than admit to their own incompetence.


And in doing so, have admitted and demonstrated their incompetence. Roger Goodell needs to go, though he won't until he starts costing the league money.



djskillz -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/13/2015 2:44:11 PM)

I heard a good point the other day; while it would appear that this hurts Goodell since he has pissed off Kraft, he's probably endeared himself to the other 31 owners, who are all sore losers.



Lynn G. -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/13/2015 2:50:04 PM)

Really, just stop. The balls were underinflated. Period. The guys who physically took the air out of them admit they were intentionally underinflated. People can work like elves to try to martyr Tom Brady and the Patriots but no one is buying it.



djskillz -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/13/2015 2:51:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynn G.

Really, just stop. The balls were underinflated. Period. The guys who physically took the air out of them admit they were intentionally underinflated. People can work like elves to try to martyr Tom Brady and the Patriots but no one is buying it.


Not true. I think you're in the minority on this one, Lynn.



Lynn G. -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/13/2015 2:53:46 PM)

I don't know. Patriot fans are all super protective of their star baby, but most fans around the league see him for what he is - an excellent QB who didn't need to cheat - - - but did it anyway.



djskillz -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/13/2015 2:54:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynn G.

I don't know. Patriot fans are all super protective of their star baby, but most fans around the league see him for what he is - an excellent QB who didn't need to cheat - - - but did it anyway.


Without any proof. I think most people see this whole thing for what it is; a sham. And one that's going to be overturned by a neutral arbitrator or in a court of law.



Duane Sampson -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/13/2015 3:35:55 PM)

I guess I'm too lazy to think it through. How is inflating or deflating really cheating? Both teams have the same balls? They could use a russet potato as long as both teams used it.

I could see it if Brady had a football and the other team had a rolled up sweat sock...



Todd M -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/13/2015 4:27:19 PM)

I think the sting operation was a sham.

But I have no doubt Brady requested the balls doctored.

And don't care one bit that he did.

It's on the same level as Jerry Rice using stickum when it was illegal. Is his legacy tarnished?

Brad Johnson admitted to having the footballs doctored...I bet a number of other QB's have as well but won't admit it.

Guys will do what they can do. Fines are/were in order and procedures needing changed. That and people needing to get over themselves.



djskillz -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/13/2015 4:56:44 PM)

I don't believe they cheated at all. But even on the off-chance they did, that's exactly how I see it, Todd. How can it be an advantage when other teams/QB's like to overinflate their footballs?



Bill Jandro -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/13/2015 6:00:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I think the sting operation was a sham.

But I have no doubt Brady requested the balls doctored.

And don't care one bit that he did.

It's on the same level as Jerry Rice using stickum when it was illegal. Is his legacy tarnished?

Brad Johnson admitted to having the footballs doctored...I bet a number of other QB's have as well but won't admit it.

Guys will do what they can do. Fines are/were in order and procedures needing changed. That and people needing to get over themselves.



Exactly. All qb's have their footballs prepared to their liking. Most most likely push the envelope.

If the footballs passed the pregame inspection how can you fine and suspend players?
Shouldn't the NFL fine/suspend/fire the guy inspecting the footballs?

Sounds like the NFL making a mountain out of a mole hill.



Lynn G. -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/13/2015 8:03:52 PM)

quote:

If the footballs passed the pregame inspection how can you fine and suspend players?


Because the doctoring occurred AFTER the balls were cleared for play. Unfortunately the league didn't have (but you can bet they will going forward) a system by which the balls are under league control throughout the game. The balls instead were under TEAM control, and the team cheated and doctored the balls.



djskillz -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/13/2015 8:11:14 PM)

Of that you have zero proof, Lynn. Nor does the NFL.



thebigo -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/13/2015 9:09:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: El Duderino

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2015

Goodell may be the worst commissioner in memory


Sepp Blatter.


I don't think anyone remembers him/her.



thebigo -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/13/2015 9:16:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

The league cited violations of the integrity of the game. The refusal of Brady to to turn over his cell phone alone makes this fine appropriate.


Why? He's under no obligation to do so whatsoever.


Which is why he didn't....but the NFL does NOT have to follow the US Constitution in regards to running its business. So if they deem his refusal to turn it over as a sign of guilt or that he's trying to hide something, they can punish him for that.


Does the NFL have to follow labor laws? Are there any applicable here? Does the NFL have to abide by the CBA? Sounds like you are saying that the NFL has carte blanche, that it can do whatever it damn well pleases.



thebigo -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/13/2015 9:20:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Again, the craziest part is that there is still no evidence/proof that the balls were underinflated in the first place! None! Read the report! Ideal Gas Law? Eh, that's just science. Let's throw that out. Brady's agent is exactly right; any arbitrator that is truly independent will throw this out immediately. If it's an NFL puppet arbitrator (like the investigation in the first place) all best are off.


I'm sure Goodell will have his puppet Harry and the Hendersons hear the appeal.

If the Pats are smart, and we know they are, have a judge hear the appeal. You know, someone who has studied and practiced law.


It remains to be seen whether that's the Pats call. You said it in your first sentence.



JC2015 -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/14/2015 6:29:44 AM)

I can't believe anyone would be upset over the Pats penalty. While I don't think this incident warranted that penalty, they clearly were punished heavily because

1. They got off scot free on spygate where they should have been suspended a year
2. The Saints got way more than they deserved for bountygate

The NFL has been all over the map with its discipline - no consistency.

The Pats were benefactors before

They get the short end of the stick this time

So what

Come playoff time they will be there



Todd M -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/14/2015 6:52:39 AM)

There were no suspensions with spygate but I'd hardly call it scot-free. They lost their 1st round pick and amassed 750k in fines.

The biggest difference this time is Brady's 4 games. The extra 250k and the additional 4th isn't nothing but it only adds a tiny bit.


There should have only been fines and draft forfeitures this time as well.

2 games for knocking out a woman, and 2 games when it was all said and done and it was time to 'punish' Mike Vick.

4 games for 'more probable than not' deflation of some footballs. Ridiculous.



Trekgeekscott -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/14/2015 7:35:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

The league cited violations of the integrity of the game. The refusal of Brady to to turn over his cell phone alone makes this fine appropriate.


Why? He's under no obligation to do so whatsoever.


Which is why he didn't....but the NFL does NOT have to follow the US Constitution in regards to running its business. So if they deem his refusal to turn it over as a sign of guilt or that he's trying to hide something, they can punish him for that.


Does the NFL have to follow labor laws? Are there any applicable here? Does the NFL have to abide by the CBA? Sounds like you are saying that the NFL has carte blanche, that it can do whatever it damn well pleases.


The CBA gives Brady an avenue for appeal. But it also gives the commissioners office a right to punish for what it sees as detrimental to the sport. and there is no labor law that states that if they believe the employee did something that could damage their business, that they can't be suspended.



El Duderino -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/14/2015 8:15:07 AM)

If the league is actually concerned about conduct detrimental to the game, they would have fired Goodell a long time ago. Brady potentially underinflating balls is nothing compared to the incoherent disciplinary system, or fighting against the concussion link, or even weekly Thursday night games (those games are generally very poor quality, and lead to increased injury risk). And that's assuming Brady even did it, of which I am not convinced. The procedures used to get the "data" used to "prove" that there was an offense were completely unscientific. No precautions, no matching sample size, no control, not even a standardized measuring device. Google "Walt Anderson Best Recollection". If that doesn't give you some pause, I don't know what to say.

Bottom line: The proof that Brady committed the crime doesn't even support the notion that a crime was committed in the first place. Garbage in, garbage out.



djskillz -> RE: Around the NFL (News) - 2013 Season (5/14/2015 9:47:29 AM)

Exactamundo, Dude. Couldn't have said it better. Anyone who is "convinced" they did anything clearly hasn't read the report or the actual science. As you say, the Walt Anderson part (of which I previously linked to) is the most damning piece showing how much of a sham the whole thing is. There remains no credible/definitive proof that the balls were even UNDERINFLATED! So the Patriots got punished harshly for something that we have no proof of even occurring.



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