RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans

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TJSweens -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 12:01:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/14/new-england-patriots-wells-report-deflator-weight-loss Patriots say 'deflator' refers to equipment worker's weight loss [sm=crap.gif]

Trekgeekscott -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 12:12:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/14/new-england-patriots-wells-report-deflator-weight-loss Patriots say 'deflator' refers to equipment worker's weight loss I have two things to say about this "excuse". Bull and Shit The only reason to make up a lame ass excuse like this is they are guilty as sin and trying to worm they way out of it. It's like a teenager trying to get out of being grounded by inventing all sorts of storys as to why they couldn't be home by curfew.

djskillz -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 12:16:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sixthwi quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/14/new-england-patriots-wells-report-deflator-weight-loss Patriots say 'deflator' refers to equipment worker's weight loss [&:][&:] Just yet another thing that shows this whole thing is a sham from the NFL. If you read the context of the texts (which themselves are out of context) you will come to far different conclusions than the NFL. But oh, the horror, the Patriots were giving autographs and shoes to these guys. Umm, go ask ANY equipment manager in pro sports, at any level. That's often one of their big perks/payments. What a joke this entire thing is. Give it up, NFL. You don't actually believe that deflator actually means that do you??? [&o] I absolutely do. Every bit as plausible as the "fantasyland" conclusion of the NFL's "report". I use that term as loosely as possible. It's a witch hunt. Again, there is not even plausible/credible evidence that the balls were below 12.5 PSI pre-game! The NFL doesn't even know what gauge was used and they completely disregard the head ref's own recollection of which one he used, which if true, would completely dismiss the notion that the balls were underinflated at all. Go read the science on it. The Ideal Gas Law explains the drop completely. People keep disregarding this because the initial, erroneous, leaks were that the balls were "2 pounds under" when they were nothing of the sort. On top of that, obviously the NFL wasn't too concerned about any of the process when they let the Patriots' equipment managers handle the footballs repeatedly in the midst of a "sting" operation.

TJSweens -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 12:26:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: sixthwi quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/14/new-england-patriots-wells-report-deflator-weight-loss Patriots say 'deflator' refers to equipment worker's weight loss [&:][&:] Just yet another thing that shows this whole thing is a sham from the NFL. If you read the context of the texts (which themselves are out of context) you will come to far different conclusions than the NFL. But oh, the horror, the Patriots were giving autographs and shoes to these guys. Umm, go ask ANY equipment manager in pro sports, at any level. That's often one of their big perks/payments. What a joke this entire thing is. Give it up, NFL. You don't actually believe that deflator actually means that do you??? [&o] I absolutely do. On an unrelated note; I'm selling an orange grove in northern Canada. You interested?

djskillz -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 12:26:51 PM)
I posted this in the NFL thread; will post it here: Honestly, it's just basic math. Go look at the readings, look at the report, look at the most plausible explanations by those involved, including the head official in charge of all this. I honestly don't know how anyone can come to any other conclusion, plausibly, unless they're just looking for a reason to hate on the Patriots' success. The simplest explanation has always been, and remains (as I said when the initial reports came out): The Patriots balls were set at almost exactly 12.5 psi, the low end of the spectrum. The Colts' footballs were set at a higher amount, as is Luck's preference (freakishly large hands like Rodgers). And ALL footballs lost PSI due to the weather conditions, fully consistent with SCIENCE. 3 of the 4 Colts' footballs measured at halftime? All below the 12.5 PSI as well. They just didn't fall as far below because they started at a higher PSI. OR the official readings were off/bad to begin with. IE they didn't measure all the balls properly. Which is also very plausible given what we know about the nature of this. And if that's the case, that's not on the Patriots; that's on the NFL for improperly/negligently measuring their game balls. Again, it's all basic math/science. But people keep trying to ignore these facts and bring in their own conspiracy theories in the opposite direction.

twinsfan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 12:30:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: sixthwi quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/14/new-england-patriots-wells-report-deflator-weight-loss Patriots say 'deflator' refers to equipment worker's weight loss [&:][&:] Just yet another thing that shows this whole thing is a sham from the NFL. If you read the context of the texts (which themselves are out of context) you will come to far different conclusions than the NFL. But oh, the horror, the Patriots were giving autographs and shoes to these guys. Umm, go ask ANY equipment manager in pro sports, at any level. That's often one of their big perks/payments. What a joke this entire thing is. Give it up, NFL. You don't actually believe that deflator actually means that do you??? [&o] I absolutely do. Every bit as plausible as the "fantasyland" conclusion of the NFL's "report". I use that term as loosely as possible. It's a witch hunt. Again, there is not even plausible/credible evidence that the balls were below 12.5 PSI pre-game! The NFL doesn't even know what gauge was used and they completely disregard the head ref's own recollection of which one he used, which if true, would completely dismiss the notion that the balls were underinflated at all. Go read the science on it. The Ideal Gas Law explains the drop completely. People keep disregarding this because the initial, erroneous, leaks were that the balls were "2 pounds under" when they were nothing of the sort. On top of that, obviously the NFL wasn't too concerned about any of the process when they let the Patriots' equipment managers handle the footballs repeatedly in the midst of a "sting" operation. Why would the NFL hate the Patriots so much and voluntarily bring a controversy like this to the forefront? That conspiracy makes no sense.

Trekgeekscott -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 12:31:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: sixthwi quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/14/new-england-patriots-wells-report-deflator-weight-loss Patriots say 'deflator' refers to equipment worker's weight loss [&:][&:] Just yet another thing that shows this whole thing is a sham from the NFL. If you read the context of the texts (which themselves are out of context) you will come to far different conclusions than the NFL. But oh, the horror, the Patriots were giving autographs and shoes to these guys. Umm, go ask ANY equipment manager in pro sports, at any level. That's often one of their big perks/payments. What a joke this entire thing is. Give it up, NFL. You don't actually believe that deflator actually means that do you??? [&o] I absolutely do. come on Dustin, that explanation is 100% bullshit. It's as lame an excuse as I have ever seen. I hear you on the science and other shit. I don't disagree with you to be honest. This entire affair is a joke and they still aren't addressing the real issue...that the NFL doesn't control the game balls instead of the teams. They do that and this entire issue never happens. I've seen people try to make excuses for bad behavior before (I have teenaged kids) and none have ever been this lame.

twinsfan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 12:32:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: sixthwi quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/14/new-england-patriots-wells-report-deflator-weight-loss Patriots say 'deflator' refers to equipment worker's weight loss [&:][&:] Just yet another thing that shows this whole thing is a sham from the NFL. If you read the context of the texts (which themselves are out of context) you will come to far different conclusions than the NFL. But oh, the horror, the Patriots were giving autographs and shoes to these guys. Umm, go ask ANY equipment manager in pro sports, at any level. That's often one of their big perks/payments. What a joke this entire thing is. Give it up, NFL. You don't actually believe that deflator actually means that do you??? [&o] I absolutely do. Every bit as plausible as the "fantasyland" conclusion of the NFL's "report". I use that term as loosely as possible. It's a witch hunt. Again, there is not even plausible/credible evidence that the balls were below 12.5 PSI pre-game! The NFL doesn't even know what gauge was used and they completely disregard the head ref's own recollection of which one he used, which if true, would completely dismiss the notion that the balls were underinflated at all. Go read the science on it. The Ideal Gas Law explains the drop completely. People keep disregarding this because the initial, erroneous, leaks were that the balls were "2 pounds under" when they were nothing of the sort. On top of that, obviously the NFL wasn't too concerned about any of the process when they let the Patriots' equipment managers handle the footballs repeatedly in the midst of a "sting" operation. I don't hear Tom Brady speaking out too loudly on any of this. You'd think he'd come out blazing and say it's BS. Even AJ Feeley said they've been doing it in New England for years.

Trekgeekscott -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 12:32:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twinsfan quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: sixthwi quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/14/new-england-patriots-wells-report-deflator-weight-loss Patriots say 'deflator' refers to equipment worker's weight loss [&:][&:] Just yet another thing that shows this whole thing is a sham from the NFL. If you read the context of the texts (which themselves are out of context) you will come to far different conclusions than the NFL. But oh, the horror, the Patriots were giving autographs and shoes to these guys. Umm, go ask ANY equipment manager in pro sports, at any level. That's often one of their big perks/payments. What a joke this entire thing is. Give it up, NFL. You don't actually believe that deflator actually means that do you??? [&o] I absolutely do. Every bit as plausible as the "fantasyland" conclusion of the NFL's "report". I use that term as loosely as possible. It's a witch hunt. Again, there is not even plausible/credible evidence that the balls were below 12.5 PSI pre-game! The NFL doesn't even know what gauge was used and they completely disregard the head ref's own recollection of which one he used, which if true, would completely dismiss the notion that the balls were underinflated at all. Go read the science on it. The Ideal Gas Law explains the drop completely. People keep disregarding this because the initial, erroneous, leaks were that the balls were "2 pounds under" when they were nothing of the sort. On top of that, obviously the NFL wasn't too concerned about any of the process when they let the Patriots' equipment managers handle the footballs repeatedly in the midst of a "sting" operation. Why would the NFL hate the Patriots so much and voluntarily bring a controversy like this to the forefront? That conspiracy makes no sense. Good Question. Patriots have been one of the NFLs better franchises for years. It draws frequent nationally televised games and keeps the ratings up. Tom Brady is a poster child of the NFL and now... It doesn't made sense that they would have it in for the Patriots.

Trekgeekscott -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 12:34:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twinsfan I don't hear Tom Brady speaking out too loudly on any of this. It's not his way. He will shut out the media for next year and take out his aggressions about this on the field once he's back.

sixthwi -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 12:41:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz I posted this in the NFL thread; will post it here: Honestly, it's just basic math. Go look at the readings, look at the report, look at the most plausible explanations by those involved, including the head official in charge of all this. I honestly don't know how anyone can come to any other conclusion, plausibly, unless they're just looking for a reason to hate on the Patriots' success. The simplest explanation has always been, and remains (as I said when the initial reports came out): The Patriots balls were set at almost exactly 12.5 psi, the low end of the spectrum. The Colts' footballs were set at a higher amount, as is Luck's preference (freakishly large hands like Rodgers). And ALL footballs lost PSI due to the weather conditions, fully consistent with SCIENCE. 3 of the 4 Colts' footballs measured at halftime? All below the 12.5 PSI as well. They just didn't fall as far below because they started at a higher PSI. OR the official readings were off/bad to begin with. IE they didn't measure all the balls properly. Which is also very plausible given what we know about the nature of this. And if that's the case, that's not on the Patriots; that's on the NFL for improperly/negligently measuring their game balls. Again, it's all basic math/science. But people keep trying to ignore these facts and bring in their own conspiracy theories in the opposite direction. Yup, you're right and Ted Wells is just an imbecile. [&:]

djskillz -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 1:49:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sixthwi quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz I posted this in the NFL thread; will post it here: Honestly, it's just basic math. Go look at the readings, look at the report, look at the most plausible explanations by those involved, including the head official in charge of all this. I honestly don't know how anyone can come to any other conclusion, plausibly, unless they're just looking for a reason to hate on the Patriots' success. The simplest explanation has always been, and remains (as I said when the initial reports came out): The Patriots balls were set at almost exactly 12.5 psi, the low end of the spectrum. The Colts' footballs were set at a higher amount, as is Luck's preference (freakishly large hands like Rodgers). And ALL footballs lost PSI due to the weather conditions, fully consistent with SCIENCE. 3 of the 4 Colts' footballs measured at halftime? All below the 12.5 PSI as well. They just didn't fall as far below because they started at a higher PSI. OR the official readings were off/bad to begin with. IE they didn't measure all the balls properly. Which is also very plausible given what we know about the nature of this. And if that's the case, that's not on the Patriots; that's on the NFL for improperly/negligently measuring their game balls. Again, it's all basic math/science. But people keep trying to ignore these facts and bring in their own conspiracy theories in the opposite direction. Yup, you're right and Ted Wells is just an imbecile. [&:] Pretty much.

djskillz -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 1:51:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: twinsfan quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: sixthwi quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/14/new-england-patriots-wells-report-deflator-weight-loss Patriots say 'deflator' refers to equipment worker's weight loss [&:][&:] Just yet another thing that shows this whole thing is a sham from the NFL. If you read the context of the texts (which themselves are out of context) you will come to far different conclusions than the NFL. But oh, the horror, the Patriots were giving autographs and shoes to these guys. Umm, go ask ANY equipment manager in pro sports, at any level. That's often one of their big perks/payments. What a joke this entire thing is. Give it up, NFL. You don't actually believe that deflator actually means that do you??? [&o] I absolutely do. Every bit as plausible as the "fantasyland" conclusion of the NFL's "report". I use that term as loosely as possible. It's a witch hunt. Again, there is not even plausible/credible evidence that the balls were below 12.5 PSI pre-game! The NFL doesn't even know what gauge was used and they completely disregard the head ref's own recollection of which one he used, which if true, would completely dismiss the notion that the balls were underinflated at all. Go read the science on it. The Ideal Gas Law explains the drop completely. People keep disregarding this because the initial, erroneous, leaks were that the balls were "2 pounds under" when they were nothing of the sort. On top of that, obviously the NFL wasn't too concerned about any of the process when they let the Patriots' equipment managers handle the footballs repeatedly in the midst of a "sting" operation. Why would the NFL hate the Patriots so much and voluntarily bring a controversy like this to the forefront? That conspiracy makes no sense. Good Question. Patriots have been one of the NFLs better franchises for years. It draws frequent nationally televised games and keeps the ratings up. Tom Brady is a poster child of the NFL and now... It doesn't made sense that they would have it in for the Patriots. I don't think they intentionally tried to mess with the Patriots specifically. I think they're trying to save face as a league for a botched sting operation (the Colts notified the league a full day before this and not a single mention was made to the Patriots) and also for their piss poor practice of lack of control of game balls, which you've pointed out Scott. But they got out in front of it thinking they "had" the Patriots and they couldn't backtrack gracefully, so they came out with a bogus 250 page "report" that lacks any real facts or evidence.

twinsfan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 1:54:23 PM)
Hmmmmm. Interesting theory.

twinsfan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 1:57:47 PM)
Dustin, why do you love the Patriots so much? Did you defend them this vehemently after spygate as well?

djskillz -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 2:00:37 PM)
Matt, the whole thing centers around how completely ridiculous the entire control of the ball practice is to begin with. This is just a start: Troy Vincent and others in the league office had no idea game conditions effect air pressure of balls, and that pressure changes during the game. And admitted it. So a plausible theory is that they heard about reading being 1 PSI below during the game and thought: "We got 'em! Those cheaters!" Nevermind science is on the Patriots' (and Colts', whose balls were also below the mandatory PSI) side. They have no regular system of actually checking air pressure of the balls. Lack of consistency in gauges, lots of stories about officials only checking game balls by "feel", etc. They have no real system in place for monitoring the chain of custody for the footballs from inspection to game time. They have no consistency on anything to do with game footballs. The Giants, for example, go through a months long process through a high-speed buffer to get balls "ready". Brad Johnson paid guys before the SuperBowl to "work balls in", etc. Either let offense do whatever the hell they want with air pressure, wear, etc. Or let them do nothing and have zero control of the balls ever. Again, the whole thing comes across as the Negligent Folly League trying to bumble around and save face for total incompetence. To me at least.

djskillz -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 2:05:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twinsfan Dustin, why do you love the Patriots so much? Did you defend them this vehemently after spygate as well? Nope. I make no bones about the fact that I "like" the Patriots, and respect them. Including BB and Brady. But I would argue the same thing if it was even the Packers. There's no evidence! As for Spygate, they were wrong and paid the price. But I also believe, much like I would believe in this case if there WAS evidence, that it wasn't really an advantage. Filming was rampant throughout the league as guys like Jimmy Johnson even came out and said. They just got caught. And for that they paid a price. My only issue with Spygate is that of the fans that make it like they won "because of" SpyGate. That's flatly ridiculous. They've won at a higher rate since Spygate than before it. In this case, if they got "caught" and punished, so be it. But they didn't. The whole concept of ball inflation is stupid to begin with, but in this case there's still no real evidence that they did anything wrong to begin with. I don't buy for a second that the equipment guy was able to tamper with 12 footballs in essentially 90 seconds.

Karl Juhnke -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 2:07:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: twinsfan quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: sixthwi quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/14/new-england-patriots-wells-report-deflator-weight-loss Patriots say 'deflator' refers to equipment worker's weight loss [&:][&:] Just yet another thing that shows this whole thing is a sham from the NFL. If you read the context of the texts (which themselves are out of context) you will come to far different conclusions than the NFL. But oh, the horror, the Patriots were giving autographs and shoes to these guys. Umm, go ask ANY equipment manager in pro sports, at any level. That's often one of their big perks/payments. What a joke this entire thing is. Give it up, NFL. You don't actually believe that deflator actually means that do you??? [&o] I absolutely do. Every bit as plausible as the "fantasyland" conclusion of the NFL's "report". I use that term as loosely as possible. It's a witch hunt. Again, there is not even plausible/credible evidence that the balls were below 12.5 PSI pre-game! The NFL doesn't even know what gauge was used and they completely disregard the head ref's own recollection of which one he used, which if true, would completely dismiss the notion that the balls were underinflated at all. Go read the science on it. The Ideal Gas Law explains the drop completely. People keep disregarding this because the initial, erroneous, leaks were that the balls were "2 pounds under" when they were nothing of the sort. On top of that, obviously the NFL wasn't too concerned about any of the process when they let the Patriots' equipment managers handle the footballs repeatedly in the midst of a "sting" operation. Why would the NFL hate the Patriots so much and voluntarily bring a controversy like this to the forefront? That conspiracy makes no sense. Good Question. Patriots have been one of the NFLs better franchises for years. It draws frequent nationally televised games and keeps the ratings up. Tom Brady is a poster child of the NFL and now... It doesn't made sense that they would have it in for the Patriots. That was exactly my first thought. I didn't know...and still don't know what exact evidence the NFL has. But I do know, if the evidence was at all flimsy it would have been the easiest thing in the world for them to sweep this under the rug and move on. Most of the sporting public had already forgotten about it. Why would the NFL want to drag it all out again, reveal cheating in its premier game, hit one of its premier teams and golden boy players with severe punishment and drag them through the mud? That's the last thing in the world they would want to do. I have to believe they would only take this action if it was a pretty open and shut case and they needed to make an example to other teams to not pull stuff like this.

twinsfan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 2:07:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz Matt, the whole thing centers around how completely ridiculous the entire control of the ball practice is to begin with. This is just a start: Troy Vincent and others in the league office had no idea game conditions effect air pressure of balls, and that pressure changes during the game. And admitted it. So a plausible theory is that they heard about reading being 1 PSI below during the game and thought: "We got 'em! Those cheaters!" Nevermind science is on the Patriots' (and Colts', whose balls were also below the mandatory PSI) side. They have no regular system of actually checking air pressure of the balls. Lack of consistency in gauges, lots of stories about officials only checking game balls by "feel", etc. They have no real system in place for monitoring the chain of custody for the footballs from inspection to game time. They have no consistency on anything to do with game footballs. The Giants, for example, go through a months long process through a high-speed buffer to get balls "ready". Brad Johnson paid guys before the SuperBowl to "work balls in", etc. Either let offense do whatever the hell they want with air pressure, wear, etc. Or let them do nothing and have zero control of the balls ever. Again, the whole thing comes across as the Negligent Folly League trying to bumble around and save face for total incompetence. To me at least. If Brad Johnson and the Giants QB's have doctored balls in the past, what makes you think Brady wasn't orchestrating doctoring of balls? I'm sure he's not the only active QB that has been coordinating this type of thing, but to claim he didn't do it is kind of unbelievable. "The guy is referred to as The Deflater because he's heavy and trying to lose weight." [&:] That's awesome.

twinsfan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 2:09:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: twinsfan quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: sixthwi quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/14/new-england-patriots-wells-report-deflator-weight-loss Patriots say 'deflator' refers to equipment worker's weight loss [&:][&:] Just yet another thing that shows this whole thing is a sham from the NFL. If you read the context of the texts (which themselves are out of context) you will come to far different conclusions than the NFL. But oh, the horror, the Patriots were giving autographs and shoes to these guys. Umm, go ask ANY equipment manager in pro sports, at any level. That's often one of their big perks/payments. What a joke this entire thing is. Give it up, NFL. You don't actually believe that deflator actually means that do you??? [&o] I absolutely do. Every bit as plausible as the "fantasyland" conclusion of the NFL's "report". I use that term as loosely as possible. It's a witch hunt. Again, there is not even plausible/credible evidence that the balls were below 12.5 PSI pre-game! The NFL doesn't even know what gauge was used and they completely disregard the head ref's own recollection of which one he used, which if true, would completely dismiss the notion that the balls were underinflated at all. Go read the science on it. The Ideal Gas Law explains the drop completely. People keep disregarding this because the initial, erroneous, leaks were that the balls were "2 pounds under" when they were nothing of the sort. On top of that, obviously the NFL wasn't too concerned about any of the process when they let the Patriots' equipment managers handle the footballs repeatedly in the midst of a "sting" operation. Why would the NFL hate the Patriots so much and voluntarily bring a controversy like this to the forefront? That conspiracy makes no sense. Good Question. Patriots have been one of the NFLs better franchises for years. It draws frequent nationally televised games and keeps the ratings up. Tom Brady is a poster child of the NFL and now... It doesn't made sense that they would have it in for the Patriots. That was exactly my first thought. I didn't know...and still don't know what exact evidence the NFL has. But I do know, if the evidence was at all flimsy it would have been the easiest thing in the world for them to sweep this under the rug and move on. Most of the sporting public had already forgotten about it. Why would the NFL want to drag it all out again, reveal cheating in its premier game, hit one of its premier teams and golden boy players with severe punishment and drag them through the mud? That's the last thing in the world they would want to do. I have to believe they would only take this action if it was a pretty open and shut case and they needed to make an example to other teams to not pull stuff like this. Exactly.

djskillz -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 2:16:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: twinsfan quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: sixthwi quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/14/new-england-patriots-wells-report-deflator-weight-loss Patriots say 'deflator' refers to equipment worker's weight loss [&:][&:] Just yet another thing that shows this whole thing is a sham from the NFL. If you read the context of the texts (which themselves are out of context) you will come to far different conclusions than the NFL. But oh, the horror, the Patriots were giving autographs and shoes to these guys. Umm, go ask ANY equipment manager in pro sports, at any level. That's often one of their big perks/payments. What a joke this entire thing is. Give it up, NFL. You don't actually believe that deflator actually means that do you??? [&o] I absolutely do. Every bit as plausible as the "fantasyland" conclusion of the NFL's "report". I use that term as loosely as possible. It's a witch hunt. Again, there is not even plausible/credible evidence that the balls were below 12.5 PSI pre-game! The NFL doesn't even know what gauge was used and they completely disregard the head ref's own recollection of which one he used, which if true, would completely dismiss the notion that the balls were underinflated at all. Go read the science on it. The Ideal Gas Law explains the drop completely. People keep disregarding this because the initial, erroneous, leaks were that the balls were "2 pounds under" when they were nothing of the sort. On top of that, obviously the NFL wasn't too concerned about any of the process when they let the Patriots' equipment managers handle the footballs repeatedly in the midst of a "sting" operation. Why would the NFL hate the Patriots so much and voluntarily bring a controversy like this to the forefront? That conspiracy makes no sense. Good Question. Patriots have been one of the NFLs better franchises for years. It draws frequent nationally televised games and keeps the ratings up. Tom Brady is a poster child of the NFL and now... It doesn't made sense that they would have it in for the Patriots. That was exactly my first thought. I didn't know...and still don't know what exact evidence the NFL has. But I do know, if the evidence was at all flimsy it would have been the easiest thing in the world for them to sweep this under the rug and move on. Most of the sporting public had already forgotten about it. Why would the NFL want to drag it all out again, reveal cheating in its premier game, hit one of its premier teams and golden boy players with severe punishment and drag them through the mud? That's the last thing in the world they would want to do. I have to believe they would only take this action if it was a pretty open and shut case and they needed to make an example to other teams to not pull stuff like this. You guys have a lot more faith in the NFL than I do, apparently. I think it's a joke of a league with no real foresight on anything. I think they WOULD have swept this all under the rug otherwise but it because a MASSIVE story really because of their own doing. Really? You're going to run a sting operation with your most popular team right before the Super Bowl? And make that the story of those 2 weeks? AND leak completely off-base information (which misled the public) about balls being 2 PSI under, when they weren't even close? I think the story took on a life of its own and they had to save face by doing something like this. 1) If they didn't want this to be a story and their real concern was the "rules" then they would have gone to the Patriots right after they got the complaint from the Colts and warned them to have their footballs at the proper PSI. The fact they didn't points to either A) they didn't actually care, or B) they were running a sting. 2) Once the story broke all hell broke loose because it's a big story and the timing of it. There's no putting the cat back in the bag.

djskillz -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 2:17:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twinsfan quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz Matt, the whole thing centers around how completely ridiculous the entire control of the ball practice is to begin with. This is just a start: Troy Vincent and others in the league office had no idea game conditions effect air pressure of balls, and that pressure changes during the game. And admitted it. So a plausible theory is that they heard about reading being 1 PSI below during the game and thought: "We got 'em! Those cheaters!" Nevermind science is on the Patriots' (and Colts', whose balls were also below the mandatory PSI) side. They have no regular system of actually checking air pressure of the balls. Lack of consistency in gauges, lots of stories about officials only checking game balls by "feel", etc. They have no real system in place for monitoring the chain of custody for the footballs from inspection to game time. They have no consistency on anything to do with game footballs. The Giants, for example, go through a months long process through a high-speed buffer to get balls "ready". Brad Johnson paid guys before the SuperBowl to "work balls in", etc. Either let offense do whatever the hell they want with air pressure, wear, etc. Or let them do nothing and have zero control of the balls ever. Again, the whole thing comes across as the Negligent Folly League trying to bumble around and save face for total incompetence. To me at least. If Brad Johnson and the Giants QB's have doctored balls in the past, what makes you think Brady wasn't orchestrating doctoring of balls? I'm sure he's not the only active QB that has been coordinating this type of thing, but to claim he didn't do it is kind of unbelievable. "The guy is referred to as The Deflater because he's heavy and trying to lose weight." [&:] That's awesome. Oh, I have no doubt he has, at least in terms of working balls in, etc., like pretty much every other QB in the league. There's a reason that Brady and Manning came together and got the rules on footballs changed in 2006 or 2007 (whichever it was). But in this case, in this game, there is still no evidence that the rules were broken. None.

twinsfan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 2:18:01 PM)
This is reminiscent of hearing people argue that global warming does not exist. Or the periodic table is a sha.....[:o]

Stacey King -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 2:18:45 PM)
Patriots sci expert in DeflateGate is co-founder of a company in which R. Kraft has invested

djskillz -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (5/14/2015 2:20:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twinsfan This is reminiscent of hearing people argue that global warming does not exist. Or the periodic table is a sha.....[:o] It's actually the opposite, Matt. Because the science is on the side of the Patriots. Completely. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/14/nobel-prize-winner-disagrees-with-science-in-wells-report/ Seriously, if you can do basic math/science, and you believe the head official in charge of the inspection process, rather than an NFL-commissioned investigator after the fact, then the balls weren't underinflated.

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