RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (Full Version)

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Trekgeekscott -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/22/2016 10:48:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sixthwi

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Few things out there better than a Thanksgiving Day with a Viking Game.
I've done some cool things on this rock, but days like Thursday are special.


Huge game too. I'm going to root for a loss by both teams. [;)]


Yeah, the Packers need all the help they can get. They aren't going to do it themselves this year. That much is obvious.




sixthwi -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/22/2016 12:25:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: sixthwi

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Few things out there better than a Thanksgiving Day with a Viking Game.
I've done some cool things on this rock, but days like Thursday are special.


Huge game too. I'm going to root for a loss by both teams. [;)]


Yeah, the Packers need all the help they can get. They aren't going to do it themselves this year. That much is obvious.


Yup, they do suck this year. I figure they'll finish about 6-10. At this point they'll probably better off losing their last six games.




Mr. Ed -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/24/2016 2:42:02 PM)

Losers

Loser play calling

3rd and 9, 2 yard pass

3rd and 5, 2 yard pass

3rd and 2, 1 yard pass

What a bunch of losers.




bstinger -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/24/2016 9:35:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Losers

Loser play calling

3rd and 9, 2 yard pass

3rd and 5, 2 yard pass

3rd and 2, 1 yard pass

What a bunch of losers.

[sm=yeahthat.gif]




MarkWren -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/25/2016 8:01:04 AM)

I beg to differ, gents. The OL has been held together by baling wire for weeks now, and they lost two more "starters" yesterday. The only way to attack Detroit was exactly how we did it, and we nearly pulled off what could only be described as a shocker. We had the Lions on their heels the whole 2nd half. Mixed up the playcalling beautifully. Had converted the 3rd & short on what should have been the game-winning drive with 40 seconds left & a TO, only to have it called back on a ticky-tack alignment call on #84. We came THAT close to knocking off a team that had averaged nearly 500 yards of offense over its past 3 Thanksgiving Day games, all wins, average score 40-13 or so. Did so playing rookies, has-beens, never-weres on the OL for most of the game. Bradford hit 80% of his throws, which then led to some impressive running plays.

Our guys played, and were coached, like winners yesterday. The fact is they had to be perfect, and fell just short. Any other OL situation, and I'd agree wholeheartedly with you. But yesterday's OL personnel were basically 3rd/4th stringers, save Boone. The fact that Bradford survived that game at all is a Thanksgiving miracle. Had we taken deeper drops, he'd have been out for the season by the 8:00 mark of the first quarter. Proud of the Vikes, man. Very proud. And they STILL may pull outthis division, despite unprecedented injuries.




SoMnFan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/27/2016 7:47:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Losers

Loser play calling

3rd and 9, 2 yard pass

3rd and 5, 2 yard pass

3rd and 2, 1 yard pass

What a bunch of losers.

Yup, called every play the last five minutes from my couch ... (much to my relatives chagrin)
Called every result ... called every mistake ... called every fail .... called every came-up-short-again.
One of the most frustrating days ever for me in being a Viking fan, and that's saying something.
The Lions are STILL the Lions. No excuse to lose to them once, much less twice in a year.
And both times, because of poor execution of easy things, down the stretch. Unacceptable.




SoMnFan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/27/2016 7:51:20 AM)

Coulda screamed at my relatives, they were among the millions of Viking fans thinking Prater would miss one of those, that he'd miss the last time we played em.
Real NFL teams don't lose games because of their kicker, but we do.
All those killer Prater kicks? They weren't just made, they were PERFECT. From any yardage. That's how it's supposed to work.
And yet we somehow think now, that someone's going to miss and give us a break, just because our knotheads do .... its hilarious.




TJSweens -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/27/2016 10:32:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Losers

Loser play calling

3rd and 9, 2 yard pass

3rd and 5, 2 yard pass

3rd and 2, 1 yard pass

What a bunch of losers.

Yup, called every play the last five minutes from my couch ... (much to my relatives chagrin)
Called every result ... called every mistake ... called every fail .... called every came-up-short-again.
One of the most frustrating days ever for me in being a Viking fan, and that's saying something.
The Lions are STILL the Lions. No excuse to lose to them once, much less twice in a year.
And both times, because of poor execution of easy things, down the stretch. Unacceptable.


We have mastered the art of running routes 2 yards short of the first down marker.




SoMnFan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/27/2016 11:11:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Losers

Loser play calling

3rd and 9, 2 yard pass

3rd and 5, 2 yard pass

3rd and 2, 1 yard pass

What a bunch of losers.

Yup, called every play the last five minutes from my couch ... (much to my relatives chagrin)
Called every result ... called every mistake ... called every fail .... called every came-up-short-again.
One of the most frustrating days ever for me in being a Viking fan, and that's saying something.
The Lions are STILL the Lions. No excuse to lose to them once, much less twice in a year.
And both times, because of poor execution of easy things, down the stretch. Unacceptable.


We have mastered the art of running routes 2 yards short of the first down marker.

The #1 thing that drives me insane about them.
Ranks up there with
settling for three
taking sacks on 4th down or that take us out of FG range
as you say ... running 4 yard routes when its 3rd and 7
To me, that's sure signs of STUPIDITY




Black 47 -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/27/2016 2:18:56 PM)

Vikings have returned me to apathy. Didn't even turn the game on. Listened to a couple plays on the radio. The organization has gone stale. Ryan and Gardenhire all over again. Time for change. Its the Vikings turn.

Wolves got Thibs and Layden
Wild got Boudreau
Twins got Falvey and Levine

Spielman has run his course and proven he doesn't have the ability to assemble a complete team. Never has even once. Always glaring deficiencies somewhere.




Trekgeekscott -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/28/2016 2:06:08 PM)

OK Glaring deficiencies.

Who could possibly predict the Oline catastrophe this team has endured?

Seriously?

When they were opening camp they had Oline that was supposed to look like this:

Kalil Boone, Berger/Sullivan, Harris, Loadholt
Before camp can begin Harris gets a mysterious head ailment, Loahholt retires.
They thought well Fusco looked good at RG before they moved him to LG. With Boone back they can move him there...Not been so good.
Smith plays about half the season before he's lost for the year.
Kalil plays three games and probably should have only played 2. done for the year.
Berger went down on Thanksgiving.
So did our THIRD option at RT Sirles.
Long was signed at the bye and looked rusty to be sure but just as he was shaking off that rust...bam! there goes the achilles.
By the end of the game on Thursday we were literally on our fourth option at RT. Third at LT, Backup C. a underperforming schlep at RG and Boone our big name free agent.

Kalil, Harris Loadolt, Long, Sirles, Berger, Boone missed time too, No team has ever had the problems we've had.

It shouldn't be Speilman fired, it should be Sugerman for not keeping these guys healthy.




Jeff Jesser -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/28/2016 2:14:17 PM)

2 drafted 4th round or higher in 10 years. He's neglected the position bigtime just like he did with LB's and WR's. Trying to 'fix' it in one year was a really stupid (and dangerous) plan and it failed.

He should be held accountable. Not given credit for the fact that he put us in this situation to begin with.




Jeff Jesser -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/28/2016 2:16:04 PM)

To me, this reeks like the KG situation did. There was 1 year they got lucky with Spree and Sam. Before and after it was pure garbage and hail mary's. Same thing here with AD. They HM'd Favre and that's all he's done.

And, to be honest, I would bet 100% that was more Chilly than RS.




Phil Riewer -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/28/2016 2:19:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser
2 drafted 4th round or higher in 10 years. He's neglected the position bigtime just like he did with LB's and WR's. Trying to 'fix' it in one year was a really stupid (and dangerous) plan and it failed.
He should be held accountable. Not given credit for the fact that he put us in this situation to begin with.


Mike Harris and Berger were above average at their position last year......a Kalil/Smith/Loadholt Tackle would be considered about average. Boone was considered an above average LG....we would have had a top 5 center and and above average guards and average Tackles with some depth from Fusco, Sirles, and loser of Loadholt/Smith battle. He did address OLine---it just didn't work out.




Jeff Jesser -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/28/2016 2:22:25 PM)

I don't know man. I'm not in the "fire him now" crowd but I'm listening to their arguments. He has whiffed on quite a few draft picks and his FA signings have been horrendous IMO.

He also gives extensions to some really questionable people. They just extended Wright and he can't even get on the field. It's like he makes decisions without consulting the coaches. Clearly they didn't see it in Wright but he did.




Mr. Ed -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/28/2016 2:22:34 PM)

quote:

a Kalil/Smith/Loadholt Tackle would be considered about average.



No

No way

Kalil has been slightly above the Clemmings line

Smith was so-so before getting hurt.

Loadholdt was average at best before getting hurt last year. Couldn't handle speed rushers. His best skill was run blocking.




Jeff Jesser -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/28/2016 2:23:10 PM)

Then again. I sometimes wonder WTH they see too (coaches). Wright not sniffing the field but Johnson is written in ink.




David Levine -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/28/2016 2:23:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

OK Glaring deficiencies.

Who could possibly predict the Oline catastrophe this team has endured?

Seriously?

When they were opening camp they had Oline that was supposed to look like this:

Kalil Boone, Berger/Sullivan, Harris, Loadholt
Before camp can begin Harris gets a mysterious head ailment, Loahholt retires.
They thought well Fusco looked good at RG before they moved him to LG. With Boone back they can move him there...Not been so good.
Smith plays about half the season before he's lost for the year.
Kalil plays three games and probably should have only played 2. done for the year.
Berger went down on Thanksgiving.
So did our THIRD option at RT Sirles.
Long was signed at the bye and looked rusty to be sure but just as he was shaking off that rust...bam! there goes the achilles.
By the end of the game on Thursday we were literally on our fourth option at RT. Third at LT, Backup C. a underperforming schlep at RG and Boone our big name free agent.

Kalil, Harris Loadolt, Long, Sirles, Berger, Boone missed time too, No team has ever had the problems we've had.

It shouldn't be Speilman fired, it should be Sugerman for not keeping these guys healthy.


Lots of bodies, not much talent. Poor allocation of resources.

Kalil: Was likely playing his last year for us even before he got hurt. Only picked up his 5th year option because of complete lack of other options.
Boone: Nice pick-up of a complimentary player. Solid, but only as good as the guys around him.
Berger: Solid stopgap. Ideally a back-up G/C at this point.
Harris: No idea when they first learned about his issues. Predraft? Pre-Free Agency?
Fusco: Gamble that moving back to the right would bring back his 2013 production.
Loadholt: Odds of him not retiring were almost nil. Guys that size don't tend to recover from the injury he had.
Smith: Bust. Lazy and Bengals had no interest in bringing him back. Had to sign a 1-year prove it deal. Poor man's McKinney.
Clemmings: Athletic ability but incredibly raw. Was awful as a rookie.

Everyone else was completely untested.

So the only "sure things" we had were a 34 year-old Center, Alex Boone, A bottom 3rd (at best) LT and maybe a 4th year Guard that only last year flashed signs of being a player.




Trekgeekscott -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/28/2016 2:24:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser
2 drafted 4th round or higher in 10 years. He's neglected the position bigtime just like he did with LB's and WR's. Trying to 'fix' it in one year was a really stupid (and dangerous) plan and it failed.
He should be held accountable. Not given credit for the fact that he put us in this situation to begin with.


Mike Harris and Berger were above average at their position last year......a Kalil/Smith/Loadholt Tackle would be considered about average. Boone was considered an above average LG....we would have had a top 5 center and and above average guards and average Tackles with some depth from Fusco, Sirles, and loser of Loadholt/Smith battle. He did address OLine---it just didn't work out.

Bingo.

He tried. Injuries retirements ailments have rendered his efforts moot.

To claim he did nothing or neglected the position is imho poppycock.




David Levine -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/28/2016 2:24:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

2 drafted 4th round or higher in 10 years. He's neglected the position bigtime just like he did with LB's and WR's. Trying to 'fix' it in one year was a really stupid (and dangerous) plan and it failed.

He should be held accountable. Not given credit for the fact that he put us in this situation to begin with.


Exactly. Spielman has crossed his fingers and spent most of his tenure "dumpster diving" for treasure on the O-Line.

Its bitten him in the ass.




David Levine -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/28/2016 2:27:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

quote:

a Kalil/Smith/Loadholt Tackle would be considered about average.



No

No way

Kalil has been slightly above the Clemmings line

Smith was so-so before getting hurt.

Loadholdt was average at best before getting hurt last year. Couldn't handle speed rushers. His best skill was run blocking.


Yup. Not even close to average. Kalil hasn't been average since he was a rookie, Smith has always been bad and Loadholt was a very good run blocker, but not good in pass protection.

No way that equals "average".




Trekgeekscott -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/28/2016 2:30:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

OK Glaring deficiencies.

Who could possibly predict the Oline catastrophe this team has endured?

Seriously?

When they were opening camp they had Oline that was supposed to look like this:

Kalil Boone, Berger/Sullivan, Harris, Loadholt
Before camp can begin Harris gets a mysterious head ailment, Loahholt retires.
They thought well Fusco looked good at RG before they moved him to LG. With Boone back they can move him there...Not been so good.
Smith plays about half the season before he's lost for the year.
Kalil plays three games and probably should have only played 2. done for the year.
Berger went down on Thanksgiving.
So did our THIRD option at RT Sirles.
Long was signed at the bye and looked rusty to be sure but just as he was shaking off that rust...bam! there goes the achilles.
By the end of the game on Thursday we were literally on our fourth option at RT. Third at LT, Backup C. a underperforming schlep at RG and Boone our big name free agent.

Kalil, Harris Loadolt, Long, Sirles, Berger, Boone missed time too, No team has ever had the problems we've had.

It shouldn't be Speilman fired, it should be Sugerman for not keeping these guys healthy.


Lots of bodies, not much talent. Poor allocation of resources.

Kalil: Was likely playing his last year for us even before he got hurt. Only picked up his 5th year option because of complete lack of other options.
Boone: Nice pick-up of a complimentary player. Solid, but only as good as the guys around him.
Berger: Solid stopgap. Ideally a back-up G/C at this point.
Harris: No idea when they first learned about his issues. Predraft? Pre-Free Agency?
Fusco: Gamble that moving back to the right would bring back his 2013 production.
Loadholt: Odds of him not retiring were almost nil. Guys that size don't tend to recover from the injury he had.
Smith: Bust. Lazy and Bengals had no interest in bringing him back. Had to sign a 1-year prove it deal. Poor man's McKinney.
Clemmings: Athletic ability but incredibly raw. Was awful as a rookie.

Everyone else was completely untested.

So the only "sure things" we had were a 34 year-old Center, Alex Boone, A bottom 3rd (at best) LT and maybe a 4th year Guard that only last year flashed signs of being a player.



Kalil - even you say there were no better options available...
Berger is the stopgap for Easton who they like and are grooming to replace him in a year or two if not sooner.
Fusco was good in 2014 at RG. It's why they thought they could move him to LG, but that destroyed him. Figured moving him back might bring back that magic. Didn't but it wasn't a bad idea. and it was to back up Harris who was very good last year...but this head ailment destroyed that..

Loadholt you are probably right about...but they did try to hedge their bets with Clemmings returning and signing Smith.

It's a mess, but you have to really look at what was available, how much cap space we really had to work with, and injuries to other players too, like Bridgewater who was more mobile than Bradford and Peterson who can at least break an occasional tackle...

They need to address the Oline in a major way this offseason. Like half the draft.

I hope they are scouting the shit out of Oline in college this year.




Phil Riewer -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/28/2016 2:31:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed
quote:

a Kalil/Smith/Loadholt Tackle would be considered about average.

No
No way
Kalil has been slightly above the Clemmings line
Smith was so-so before getting hurt.
Loadholdt was average at best before getting hurt last year. Couldn't handle speed rushers. His best skill was run blocking.

Yup. Not even close to average. Kalil hasn't been average since he was a rookie, Smith has always been bad and Loadholt was a very good run blocker, but not good in pass protection.
No way that equals "average".


Non-Excecution at the end of games has killed us....CPatt last game and Walsh missing XP and FG against Wash and Det would have overcome the OLine. That is were the problem lies with evenly matched teams.




David Levine -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/28/2016 2:39:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed
quote:

a Kalil/Smith/Loadholt Tackle would be considered about average.

No
No way
Kalil has been slightly above the Clemmings line
Smith was so-so before getting hurt.
Loadholdt was average at best before getting hurt last year. Couldn't handle speed rushers. His best skill was run blocking.

Yup. Not even close to average. Kalil hasn't been average since he was a rookie, Smith has always been bad and Loadholt was a very good run blocker, but not good in pass protection.
No way that equals "average".


Non-Excecution at the end of games has killed us....CPatt last game and Walsh missing XP and FG against Wash and Det would have overcome the OLine. That is were the problem lies with evenly matched teams.


No one is saying the O-Line is the only reason for the losses, but its a major, major problem. And it has been for years.

If we had even a slightly below average line, those games likely don't come down to 1 missed play elsewhere.




Phil Riewer -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans (11/28/2016 2:41:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed
quote:

a Kalil/Smith/Loadholt Tackle would be considered about average.

No
No way
Kalil has been slightly above the Clemmings line
Smith was so-so before getting hurt.
Loadholdt was average at best before getting hurt last year. Couldn't handle speed rushers. His best skill was run blocking.

Yup. Not even close to average. Kalil hasn't been average since he was a rookie, Smith has always been bad and Loadholt was a very good run blocker, but not good in pass protection.
No way that equals "average".

Non-Excecution at the end of games has killed us....CPatt last game and Walsh missing XP and FG against Wash and Det would have overcome the OLine. That is were the problem lies with evenly matched teams.

No one is saying the O-Line is the only reason for the losses, but its a major, major problem. And it has been for years.
If we had even a slightly below average line, those games likely don't come down to 1 missed play elsewhere.


I would have rather drafted a Oline 1st round and get a Michael Thomas/Shepard 2nd but the draft didn't go that way.....that is some of it too---weak OT draft in 2016.




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