RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (Full Version)

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Mr. Ed -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (3/31/2014 8:45:31 PM)

Either a smokescreen or there is a mindset I find troubling:

http://nfl.si.com/2014/03/31/johnny-manziel-red-flags-2014-nfl-draft/?eref=sihp




Todd M -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (3/31/2014 9:38:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Either a smokescreen or there is a mindset I find troubling:

http://nfl.si.com/2014/03/31/johnny-manziel-red-flags-2014-nfl-draft/?eref=sihp


For what he gave Cook shit for maybe he shouldn't throw guys under the bus to the media.

Cook basically said they met - and Zimmer hated it. Yet he can volunteer 'flags', red I'm assuming, about Manziel to the media?




Jim Frenette -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/1/2014 9:32:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Either a smokescreen or there is a mindset I find troubling:

http://nfl.si.com/2014/03/31/johnny-manziel-red-flags-2014-nfl-draft/?eref=sihp


I wonder when the red flags came out, at the pro day workout or dinner that night and private workout the following day




Trekgeekscott -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/1/2014 9:33:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Either a smokescreen or there is a mindset I find troubling:

http://nfl.si.com/2014/03/31/johnny-manziel-red-flags-2014-nfl-draft/?eref=sihp


I wonder when the red flags came out, at the pro day workout or dinner that night and private workout the following day


Exactly.

I believe nothing I hear from NFL coaching staffs or front offices at this time of year.

I truly believe they are blowing smoke here.




Jim Frenette -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/1/2014 9:37:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Either a smokescreen or there is a mindset I find troubling:

http://nfl.si.com/2014/03/31/johnny-manziel-red-flags-2014-nfl-draft/?eref=sihp


I wonder when the red flags came out, at the pro day workout or dinner that night and private workout the following day


Exactly.

I believe nothing I hear from NFL coaching staffs or front offices at this time of year.

I truly believe they are blowing smoke here.


I don't think he'll be available anyway. If they are targeting LB, they should be acting like they want a QB so teams will trade up and leave their guys alone




SoMnFan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/1/2014 9:52:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Either a smokescreen or there is a mindset I find troubling:

http://nfl.si.com/2014/03/31/johnny-manziel-red-flags-2014-nfl-draft/?eref=sihp



Imagine how troubled I am [:D]




Jeff Jesser -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/1/2014 10:12:07 AM)

I understand the smoke screen angle but I really think Zimmer and staff have massive reservations over him. Zimmer is old school and I'm guessing is none too impressed with Manziel's celebrity status.

Hell, he hasn't thrown a pass in the leauge yet and he's already in the Mcdonalds commercial with Lebron about the "Great Ones club".

If I were the coach I'd have issues with that too. What is his overall motivation to be successful? His pure athletic ability is about to be nullified to an extent. What else is he going to fall back on?




ronhextall -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/1/2014 10:16:33 AM)

Speilman and Zimm will both be out of jobs if they can't hit on a QB. I am not a big fan of "Bitter old Fart" or a.k.a. "Old School". You better adapt because it is a players league not a coaches league.

I want a cocky arrogant piece of shit as Qb, yes I WANT. Give me somebody who thinks they can throw it through a wall and make every play. Tired of chicken little "game managers".

As Johnny Fever once said, "Give it to me straight Doctor, I can take it!".




SoMnFan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/1/2014 10:20:00 AM)

Ronnie throws down a bomb this morning
100% in on that my man.




Mr. Ed -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/1/2014 2:35:05 PM)

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/PJR_Thanks_coach_Now_we_know_Vikings_really_want_Manziel040114




TJSweens -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/1/2014 3:02:09 PM)

I wish it was from a better source than Ruesse aka Jim Souhan's slightly less stupid colleague. It's kind of ironic reading him mock Speilman for having a "we're so much smarter than everyone else" attitude.




SoMnFan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/11/2014 1:40:57 AM)

McShays latest Mock


We are now less than a month away from the 2014 NFL draft, and I'm close to finished with most of my evaluations of this year's prospects. The majority of the significant free-agent moves have been made as well, giving us a clearer idea of each team's needs heading into the draft.
Those two factors make this a good time to unveil my latest mock draft -- and this one is a two-rounder. A few trends jumped out at me as I went through this:
1. The four elite prospects in this year's draft class went off the board early, as more and more it's looking like it's going to be tough for teams drafting high up in the order to pass over any of those players, even when it isn't a perfect need fit.
2. With those four elite players going early, one of the top-rated QBs slipped out of the top eight picks, and finding a team fit for him beyond the top eight was the most difficult decision of this whole mock draft. That's a situation to keep an eye on as the draft unfolds -- the soft landing spots are few and far between for any QB that gets past Minnesota at No. 8.
3. When I was torn between two choices for a team, I usually broke the tie by picking the higher-ranked player on my board -- even in cases when that player didn't perfectly fill a team need.
4. It seemed like every time I looked up I had picked another wide receiver. There are a lot of teams with needs at the position, and a lot of good receiver prospects in this draft.
With all of that out of the way, let's get to the picks. Here is my projection of the first two rounds of the 2014 NFL draft.



1. Houston Texans: Jadeveon Clowney, DE, South Carolina


There has been some Johnny Manziel-to-Houston buzz in the last few days, but I think this pick will come down to Clowney and UCF quarterback Blake Bortles. The Texans really need a QB, and Bortles has the highest ceiling of any passer in this draft, but I just think it's going to be too difficult for the Texans to pass on Clowney. He is the best player in this class and the most naturally talented defensive lineman I've ever evaluated, and guys like him simply don't come around that often. The Texans will find a good fit for him in defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel's versatile scheme.



2. St. Louis Rams (from WAS): Greg Robinson, OT, Auburn


If Clowney goes No. 1, I think this pick will come down to Robinson or Clemson WR Sammy Watkins. I'm going with Robinson because the Rams need to keep QB Sam Bradford upright (especially given the pass-rushers they'll see in the NFC West), and because I have Robinson rated as the slightly better player. But I could see how St. Louis coach Jeff Fisher might lean in Watkins' direction. You need playmakers to offset the defensive backs in that division, and historically, Fisher does not spend high picks on offensive linemen. If Clowney drops, he's definitely in play here, or the Rams could get a lucrative offer to trade back.



3. Jacksonville Jaguars: Khalil Mack, OLB, Buffalo


The likeliest options for the Jaguars in this scenario are Mack, WR Sammy Watkins or QBs Blake Bortles and Johnny Manziel. Jacksonville really needs a QB, but in Mack the Jags would be getting the second-best defensive player in the draft and a guy who could play the "Leo" role in their defense -- the weakside edge player (something of a hybrid defensive end/outside linebacker) whose primary task is to disrupt opposing backfields as a pass-rusher and run defender. Mack is a tone-setter and a difference-maker, and he is versatile enough to hold up in pass coverage when asked.




4. Cleveland Browns: Blake Bortles, QB, UCF


I think this pick would come down to Bortles or WR Sammy Watkins. I'm going with Bortles. While he isn't a perfect prospect at QB, he has the highest ceiling of any quarterback in this class. He has some improving to do with his mechanics, but he showed clear progress in that area during his pro day workout, and he checks all the boxes in terms of his size (6-foot-5, 232 pounds), intangibles, character, mental makeup and leadership ability. He can also make plays with his legs and is more creative than he gets credit for.



5. Oakland Raiders: Sammy Watkins, WR, Clemson


I'm told that if the Raiders are to select a QB at No. 5, it would be Blake Bortles. With him off the board in this scenario, I think they'd hold off on taking a QB and instead look to add a weapon for Matt Schaub in Watkins. They need help at wide receiver, and Watkins has an elite skill set with excellent acceleration as a vertical route runner and after the catch. He also has great competitiveness and body control on contested catches that allow him to play bigger than his 6-1, 211-pound frame.



6. Atlanta Falcons: Jake Matthews, OT, Texas A&M


Jadeveon Clowney would be a prime target if the Falcons chose to trade up, and Greg Robinson and Khalil Mack would be tempting options if either slid to this spot. In this scenario, I think Matthews makes sense, as the Falcons need to do a better job of protecting QB Matt Ryan. Matthews is a very effective blocker in both the running game and passing game who has the versatility to play either left or right tackle. Atlanta can target a pass-rusher, safety and tight end in their next few picks.



7. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Mike Evans, WR, Texas A&M


The Bucs are doing their due diligence in looking at the top QBs in this draft, but I think it's much more likely that they'll take a quarterback on Day 2 rather than at No. 7 overall, given that they already have Josh McCown and Mike Glennon in house. There is a significant talent drop off after Vincent Jackson on Tampa Bay's wide receiver depth chart, and Evans would provide another big target for McCown, who had success last season with the Bears throwing to a pair of big receivers in Alshon Jeffery and Brandon Marshall. Evans is a proven downfield threat who is great at hauling in 50-50 balls.



8. Minnesota Vikings: Johnny Manziel, QB, Texas A&M


Taking Manziel at this spot will require a leap of faith on the part of the Vikings' brain trust, as he presents a significant gamble because of his on-field decision-making and long-term injury risk. But if they hit on this move, it could turn things around for them in a hurry. New offensive coordinator Norv Turner has a strong track record of developing different types of QBs -- I've heard he likes both Manziel and Teddy Bridgewater -- and there's no doubting Manziel's physical tools. He has the strongest arm of the top three quarterbacks, and his ability to extend plays and improvise is second to none.




Mr. Ed -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/11/2014 5:35:11 AM)

I've seen mocks that have Cleveland taking Manziel and MN taking Bortles/Bridgewater, and one where they take the UCLA LB then a QB in round 2.

I still don't want Bortles. Not "ready" for the NFL, needs polish. Bleh.




bstinger -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/11/2014 7:29:20 AM)

If he's right about no one needing a QB for a while after us @ 8, would make sense to trade down if QB is the way we go.




SoMnFan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/14/2014 8:35:55 PM)

History, prior association and a semi-sensational quote tell us one thing. The mock drafts [image]http://a.espncdn.com/icons/in.gif[/image] are telling us another [image]http://a.espncdn.com/icons/in.gif[/image]. Whom to believe when it comes to projecting the likelihood the Minnesota Vikings would select Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel if he is available at No. 8 next month?

There is no telling what is truly going on inside the heads of Vikings coach Mike Zimmer and offensive coordinator Norv Turner, two of the three most important people involved in the decision. (The third, general manager Rick Spielman, has pledged to draft players who match the sensibilities of his coaching staff.) We can, however, say this with confidence: Manziel would represent a stylistic departure from the offense played on the teams Zimmer and Turner have coached throughout their combined 49 NFL seasons.




Starting Quarterbacks under Mike Zimmer and/or Norv Turner



QB
Gms start*
For


*Minimum 16 games
Source: ESPN research



Troy Aikman
139
Both

Philip Rivers
112
Turner

Jim Everett
80
Turner

Andy Dalton
48
Zimmer

Gus Frerotte
46
Turner

Carson Palmer
32
Zimmer

Kerry Collins
28
Turner

Brad Johnson
27
Turner

Quincy Carter
24
Turner

Jay Fiedler
21
Turner

Drew Bledsoe
16
Zimmer

Doug Flutie
16
Turner

Alex Smith
16
TurnerAs the chart shows, Zimmer and Turner almost exclusively have played with tall, traditional pocket passers. Only one of them, Quincy Carter on Zimmer's 2003 Dallas Cowboys, has rushed for as much as 200 yards in a 16-game season.

As assistant coaches on many of those teams, Zimmer and Turner had limited influence on the personnel decisions that brought those quarterbacks. But the list represents a near-linear thread of similar players who have informed a lifetime of values, experience and familiarity -- one Manziel would at minimum upend if he were the Vikings' selection.

The closest match from either coach's history is
Doug Flutie, a 5-foot-10 scrambler who started for the San Diego Chargers in 2001 when Turner was their offensive coordinator. Yet even that comparison is limited. Flutie was 39 at the time, and although he was still nimble enough to scramble for 192 yards, Turner nevertheless had him throw a career-high 521 passes as part of his well-defined downfield passing scheme.

Another mobile quarterback,
Jay Fiedler, had his per-game rushing totals with the Miami Dolphins in 2002-03 drop by 58 percent under Turner compared to the two seasons before Turner's arrival.

Manziel, of course, was at his best in college when scrambling outside the pocket. It's true that he has a strong arm -- stronger than Louisville's
Teddy Bridgewater or Central Florida's Blake Bortles, according to ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay -- and there is near-unanimous agreement he won't stay healthy if he runs as often in the NFL.

But if you're going to run a three-digit pocket offense like Turner's, one modeled after the "Air Coryell" system the Chargers ran with Dan Fouts, are you going to be naturally drawn to Manziel? What is Manziel going to look like if you've seen your offense run mostly by
Troy Aikman (6.2 yards rushing per career game), Philip Rivers (3.1), Jim Everett (3.8) and Gus Frerotte (2.1)?

That's a question only Turner can answer. But if you're among those who think he'll endorse Manziel, then you must believe he sees him in the same light as those traditional pocket throwers -- or that he is planning a sharp left turn in his scheme and play-calling ideas as he approaches his 62nd birthday next month. Tweaking schemes to fit players is a popular NFL mantra, but is it reasonable to expect it from Turner?



[+] Enlarge[image]http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2014/0125/rn_g_johnnymanziel_ms_300x300.jpg[/image]
Ronald Martinez/Getty ImagesJohnny Manziel, the former Texas A&M quarterback who rushed for 1,410 yards in 2012, could see less action outside of the pocket in the NFL.As for Zimmer, it's true he has spent his career on the defensive side of the ball. He has had little role in choosing quarterbacks and no hand in coaching them. We can't know the details of his personal philosophy on offense, but the three quarterbacks he has seen most frequently start for his teams are Aikman, Andy Dalton (9.5 yards rushing per game) and Carson Palmer (2.7). At the very least, he has almost no personal experience with a quarterback of Manziel's skill set.

To this point, his most important public statement about offense has been the hiring of Turner -- whom he coached with on the Cowboys staff in the early 1990s and who is well-equipped to implement and run a scheme while Zimmer directs his attention elsewhere. When you combine his alliance with Turner with his recent comments about Manziel, you get a sturdy encapsulation of his set of personal and professional values.

In media interviews,
Zimmer derisively referred to Manziel's pro day -- which was set to blaring music and included a visit by former President George H.W. Bush -- as a sideshow. Elaborating, Zimmer said it was important to know if Manziel is "going to conform to typically what the NFL is or what everyone else has done before him, including what the great players in the game have done before him? Or is he going to try to be the celebrity man guy that he was maybe a year and a half ago?"

Many have assumed Zimmer was pulling the old Jedi mind trick, attempting to cast public doubt about his interest in a player he secretly hopes to draft. I wonder if that's a case of overthinking about a man who grinded for nearly four decades to get his first head-coaching gig at age 57. After working so long to get this job, will he hinge its success on a player who appears out of his comfort zone?

In total, then, here is a franchise with a coach whose no-nonsense values already have flared. His offensive coordinator has made a successful career out of running the same offense, with a certain type of quarterback, and his general manager doesn't seem likely to impose an unpopular choice. I can't say for sure the Vikings will pass on Manziel at No. 8, but this is one instance where it isn't difficult to come up with a long and relatively formidable list of reasons why they might be inclined to look elsewhere.

 
Kevin Seifert




CWG -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/14/2014 10:54:30 PM)

They better take defense at 8 or trade down.




Mr. Ed -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/22/2014 10:08:30 AM)

How TV/Sports has changed:


ESPN will televise a Wild Card playoff game during 2014 season, the first NFL playoff game in company’s 35-year history.




SoMnFan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/23/2014 8:38:45 AM)

Manziel might be there for us.
Bortles will most-likely be.
Bridgewater will be for sure.

Should be very interesting. And scary as hell.




Corleone -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/23/2014 9:25:59 AM)

Ideal scenario for me:

-Stud defender at #8
-Trade up from #40 using the Seattle pick/whatever else to nab Teddy late in the first round




CPAMAN -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/23/2014 9:33:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Manziel might be there for us.
Bortles will most-likely be.
Bridgewater will be for sure.

Should be very interesting. And scary as hell.


Just take a QB and be done with it. This BS about taking the best player available never works.




SoMnFan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/23/2014 10:03:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Corleone

Ideal scenario for me:

-Stud defender at #8
-Trade up from #40 using the Seattle pick/whatever else to nab Teddy late in the first round

Agree on the first part. ( if Manziels gone)
Pass on the second. [:D]




Todd M -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/23/2014 10:15:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Corleone

Ideal scenario for me:

-Stud defender at #8
-Trade up from #40 using the Seattle pick/whatever else to nab Teddy late in the first round

Agree on the first part. ( if Manziels gone)
Pass on the second. [:D]


I move on Manziel @8 and you won't do Bridgewater in the later part of the 1st? [sm=club.gif]




SoMnFan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/23/2014 10:25:55 AM)

There's something uncomfy to me about Teddy.
Can't give you a definitive answer.
Every time I watch his workout, I get less impressed with him.
Certainly looked like the real deal in his final college season, but seeing his motion and movements un-encumbered is freaking me out.
Shoulda padded up like Johnny did. [:D]

Hey, if we end up with Teddy, I'll get behind him.
The only way I'll really be pissed, is passing on Manziel if available.
Anything else, I'll get behind.
Bortles at 8? I could be convinced.




Todd M -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/23/2014 10:34:12 AM)

Fair enough my friend.


I'd probably feel the same as you if they passed on Bridgewater @8. I honestly don't think we should pass on Manziel or Bridgewater there.


Like you, I'll get behind whoever they take. Hope it's defense over Bortles though. I guess we all have a guy we hope isn't their guy.




SoMnFan -> RE: Vikes talk for Twins fans (4/23/2014 10:38:08 AM)

Bingo
Best way to say it Todd.
These are all just feelings about what we've seen.
The NFL is such a different animal, no one really knows what will translate.




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