RE: Players and prospects III (Full Version)

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Mr. Ed -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/28/2016 7:59:13 AM)

Saturday

Roch 5-4 win in 11 innings

Buxton 2-6/solo hr(11)/3k's, Walker 2-4/sac fly/RBI, Garver 1-5/2R HR(1), Tovar 1-4/double (23)/BB/RBI

Greenwood 7IP 2H/2R/2BB/4K/HR
Busenitz (BS) IP 3H/2R/BB/K
Reed 1-1 2IP H/K
Mjuica IP 2H/3K/Save(24)


Chatt won 3-1

Corcino 1-3/triple(5)/2RBI, Harrison 1-3/Solo HR(7)/2R

Gonsalves 8-1 5.2IP 5H/2B/6K/Pickoff
Van Steensel 1.1IP 0-2 IRS
Melotakis IP 2H/BB/3K
Fernandez IP H/R/HR/Save(5)


FTM was shut out 3-0

5 hits
Harton 2-3

Clay 1-2 5IP 7H/3R/2BB/6K
Westphal IP H/BB/K
Theofanopoulos IP BB/3K
Lara IP 2K


CRapids 7-2 winner

13 hits
Arraez 3-4/2doubles(30)/Bb/2R/2RBI(65), Wiel 2-5/2RBI(74), Lopez 2-4/2doubles/2R,Blankenhorn 3-5/triple/R/2RBI

Gibbons 7-5 6IP 9H/2R/2K
Cederoth 2IP 2BB/2K
McIver IP H


Eliz won 1-0

4 singles

Wells 5-2 6IP 2H/2BB/3K
Davis 2IP H/BB/2K
McGuff IP K/Save(9)


GCL Lost 4-1

5 hits, Whitefield 2-2/R/2SB(30)

Clemensia 1-4 1.2I 5H/3UER/2BB/K
Gomez 6.1IP 0-3 IRS 4H/R/2K



TJSweens -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/28/2016 12:51:05 PM)

Buxton is still striking out with authority.



Mr. Ed -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/28/2016 1:03:03 PM)

Kohl Stewart's DL stint (right elbow tendinitis) "shouldn't be a long-term situation" per boss Brad Steil.



TJSweens -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/28/2016 1:13:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Kohl Stewart's DL stint (right elbow tendinitis) "shouldn't be a long-term situation" per boss Brad Steil.


The Twins way:

1. Draft the highest rated pitcher in the draft.
2. "Fix" his mechanics.
3. Strike outs sink like a stone.
4. Prospect rating declines.
5. Elbow tendonitis.
6. Tommy John surgery.



MDK -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/28/2016 2:07:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Kohl Stewart's DL stint (right elbow tendinitis) "shouldn't be a long-term situation" per boss Brad Steil.


The Twins way:

1. Draft the highest rated pitcher in the draft.
2. "Fix" his mechanics.
3. Strike outs sink like a stone.
4. Prospect rating declines.
5. Elbow tendonitis.
6. Tommy John surgery.

Spot on



MDK -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/28/2016 2:10:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ewen21

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

quote:

the gutless nut huggers in the media won't call out the organization for being the biggest fraud in baseball.


That's one of the biggest problems.

Reusse/Souhan do on occasion

But the daily guys want to keep their sources and have good relations, so they don't bother to call them out.

The process is backward. As noted multiple times, trying to make nearly every pitcher do the same thing? Dumb. Just Dumb.


I hate the game Reusse has been playing the last five or six seasons. He likes to brand complaining fans as one big singular group. No matter the issue, the fans who complain are the ones who complain about EVERYTHING. There was one article about how fans complained about the Twins not spending money to get free agents. They went out and signed Nolasco and Hughes. Then fans started bitching about how awful they were. Not all of these fans were the same ones complaining about the Twins not spending money. A lot of fans understand the Twins will always be a mid-market team. Reusse schtick about fans who complain really wears my ass right out. He complains about the complaining as a way of completely ignoring the real issue. The biggest issue with them is they don't spend the money SMARTLY, they don't raise players from their system and they fall in love with mediocre (mostly white) players who don't want to rock the boat.

Let's see Reusse criticize that. Let's see him do a write up on free agent pitchers they have brought over since Ryan's last go round and what a mess that has been. That would be a good start. Or maybe he can write something about the Twins haven't raised a decent starting pitcher since Matt Garza (and even he didn't turn out to be so great). At some point, you would think the would have the GUTS to do that. Or maybe a little something on how they keep jamming guys into positions they never played when they reach the majors. Or maybe something on the stupid extensions TR handed out and that has worked for this club. There are a million places he could start.

I heard Reusse interviewing TK last month. Whenever TK said anything that was remotely funny Patrick giggled like a little schoolgirl. Reusse is in bed with the old boy network and I hate to say it, but TK is part of the issue. Everyone listens to him like he is the Grand Poobah of Minnesota baseball. When the heck did he become Yogi Berra? TK says it takes 1,500 at bats to really evaluate a guy. Or TK says AA is actually better than AAA so let's skip guys over AAA. TK says Latin guys go too fast and that you have to slow them down (he actually said that on the radio last year). THis is the kind of shit that needs to be debunked or not taken on blind faith. TK isn't some grand wizard with all the answers. HE is very disconnected to today's game. Baseball has changed, but the Twins keep looking to the same guys (who refuse to adapt to the times) for answers. Give TK all the credit for being a good manager in his day, but he was not without his flaws or his critics. There was good and bad. Now that he has very little personal investment in this team he couldn't care less. He just sits back and plays armchair quarterback while everyone nods their heads and giggles. TK was the one raving about Buxton not that long ago and he has done a sharp about face on him. It might be a little misguided to pick on TR, but screw that. He is part of it and he really needs to just ..........go stand over there. Stop listening to him as if everything he says is some oracle from the clouds. YES he has forgotten more about baseball than any of us, but does he really see today's game for what it is? Nope.

Serving Terry Ryan's head on a platter was a beautiful thing. He deserved exactly what he got. He is hoping the Twins find a guy none of us know much about to come in and be president of baseball operations. Bring in a new president and hail to the chief. Let's just hope we don't hire a guy who thinks he's the smartest guy in the room. THis organization needs to move away from the crippling groupthink that has destroyed it.


very good post!

He made his prediction of starting rotation for 2017. He is a lazy columnist who sits back and criticizes fans who care as if they are clueless.



CPAMAN -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/28/2016 3:25:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Buxton is still striking out with authority.


Yes. You can cancel out the HR he hits at Rochester because if he strikes out at that rate in AAA it will be as bad or worse at the ML level and when he does make contact, it won't be for power.



CPAMAN -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/28/2016 3:26:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Kohl Stewart's DL stint (right elbow tendinitis) "shouldn't be a long-term situation" per boss Brad Steil.


The Twins way:

1. Draft the highest rated pitcher in the draft.
2. "Fix" his mechanics.
3. Strike outs sink like a stone.
4. Prospect rating declines.
5. Elbow tendonitis.
6. Tommy John surgery.


2(a). Velocity drops off and so does control.

7. Career ruined.



Mr. Ed -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/28/2016 8:58:29 PM)

Sunday:

Roch lost 3-1. 2-11 RISP

Walker 2-4/2doubles(21), Murphy 3-4, Buxton 1-5/R/4K's

Wheeler 11-5 7IP 6H/3R/2BB/3K/HR
Baxendale 2IP H/2K

Chatt lost 5-4

Granite 3-5/double/2R/SB(51), Walker 1-3/R/RBI,Corcino 1-5/double/2RBI

Slegers 7IP 6H/2R/BB/6K
Jones BS/2-2 2IP 3H/3R/BB/3K


FTM 11 hits, 5-1 win

Vavra 2-4/Bb/R/RBi, English 2-5/2R, Harton 2-4, Murphy 1-3/double/R/RBI

Steele 7-11 6IP 5H/UER/BB/4K
Anderson 2IP 2BB/2K
Curtiss IP


CRapids 4-1 win

Molina 3-4/double/Solo HR(2)/2R, Davis 2-4/SoloHR97), Wiel 1-4/double(27)/RBI(75)

Anderson 3-0 6IP 4H/4K (has allowed 1 ER in last 24 innings/4 starts)
Lombana 2IP 3H/R/3K
Hackimer IP K

Eliz scored twice in the 9th, won 8-7

Montesino 2-5/triple/2R/2RBI, Minier 2-5/Solo HR(10)/2RBI, Gonzalez 1-2/double/RBI

Mason 4.1IP 4H/4R/2BB/K/HR
Robinson 1.2IP 0-1 IRS 3UER/2BB/3K/2E's(2)
Grogan BS/2-2 3IP 2H/5K 2-2 IRS



McMurfy -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/29/2016 2:59:57 AM)

Murphy heating up, would like to see a September call up for him to get a better read on his abilities(or lack of)



CPAMAN -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/29/2016 8:53:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Murphy heating up, would like to see a September call up for him to get a better read on his abilities(or lack of)


Certainly nothing to lose at this point. They are losing just fine with the roster they have now.



TJSweens -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/29/2016 8:56:17 AM)

Seriously at this point, Buxton should hire his own personal hitting instructor. Go through intensive hitting instruction and then go play winter ball to put it into practice. Then resume working out with the guy until ST. Nothing is going to turn around for him until he does something about the strikeouts.



twinsfan -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/29/2016 9:17:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Seriously at this point, Buxton should hire his own personal hitting instructor. Go through intensive hitting instruction and then go play winter ball to put it into practice. Then resume working out with the guy until ST. Nothing is going to turn around for him until he does something about the strikeouts.

This was the fear with Buxton from the moment we drafted him. He came from a small Georgia high school and faced literally ZERO quality competition until the day he was drafted. Our greatest fears have come to fruition. He can't hit quality pitching. He can sometimes hit very bad pitching. Unfortunately, contrary to the belief of some, there is very little bad pitching in the majors.



Black 47 -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/29/2016 9:18:57 AM)

It's a shame he never gets to face Twins pitching.



CPAMAN -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/29/2016 10:19:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Seriously at this point, Buxton should hire his own personal hitting instructor. Go through intensive hitting instruction and then go play winter ball to put it into practice. Then resume working out with the guy until ST. Nothing is going to turn around for him until he does something about the strikeouts.

This was the fear with Buxton from the moment we drafted him. He came from a small Georgia high school and faced literally ZERO quality competition until the day he was drafted. Our greatest fears have come to fruition. He can't hit quality pitching. He can sometimes hit very bad pitching. Unfortunately, contrary to the belief of some, there is very little bad pitching in the majors.


I don't understand what all the hype was about regarding Buxton. I get it that he is fast. But he is the most ugly runner to watch I have ever seen. His elbows are flying every which way when he runs and even his legs are not moving in a straight line. He is entirely out of control. Yes, he has a strong throwing arm. So regarding the pedigree five-tool player he has speed, a good glove, and a strong arm. But he flat out cannot hit. How could the baseball experts not see this? I saw it the first time I saw him play. A natural hitter doesn't struggle like he does. He K's at the most alarming rate I have ever seen. He is worse than Sano with the strikeouts.



MDK -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/29/2016 10:28:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Seriously at this point, Buxton should hire his own personal hitting instructor. Go through intensive hitting instruction and then go play winter ball to put it into practice. Then resume working out with the guy until ST. Nothing is going to turn around for him until he does something about the strikeouts.

This was the fear with Buxton from the moment we drafted him. He came from a small Georgia high school and faced literally ZERO quality competition until the day he was drafted. Our greatest fears have come to fruition. He can't hit quality pitching. He can sometimes hit very bad pitching. Unfortunately, contrary to the belief of some, there is very little bad pitching in the majors.


If there was a potential MLB player that needs to choke up and cut down on his swing, it is Buxton. First make contact, period. With his speed, he would hit 280 by simply making regular contact.

Twins were wrong with trying to get Gomez to pound the ball into the ground but that may be the only way Buxton can turn things around.

When Kirby first came up, he was a high contact hitter who pounded the ball into the ground. Remember how many hits he got that first full season with the huge bounces in the dome? After he was making contact, then Tony O got him to drive that ball and look what we had. I am not saying Buxton could be a Kirby Puckett.....but he first has to make contact.



TJSweens -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/29/2016 10:43:21 AM)

It was pretty damn easy why there was all the hype regarding Buxton and it wasn't just the Twins. He was the highest rated position player in his draft. As a hitter he had an undisciplined mechanically flawed swing, but he has PHENOMENAL bat speed. Any team would look at that and say "if we can get him making consistent contact, good things will happen. Ugly as you think his running may be, it is very effective. He is the only player I have seen who can leg out a stand up triple out of a ball hit to left field. Buxton suffers the same problem as Kohl Stewart. The Twins as an organization don't know how to take an elite prospect and build around what he does well and make the tweaks that will allow his strengths to flourish in the majors. They try to mold all of their position players into the same hitter and all of their pitchers into the same pitcher. They wind up ironing out their strengths and producing a consistent level of medeocrity in their prospects.



CPAMAN -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/29/2016 10:48:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

It was pretty damn easy why there was all the hype regarding Buxton and it wasn't just the Twins. He was the highest rated position player in his draft. As a hitter he had an undisciplined mechanically flawed swing, but he has PHENOMENAL bat speed. Any team would look at that and say "if we can get him making consistent contact, good things will happen. Ugly as you think his running may be, it is very effective. He is the only player I have seen who can leg out a stand up triple out of a ball hit to left field. Buxton suffers the same problem as Kohl Stewart. The Twins as an organization don't know how to take an elite prospect and build around what he does well and make the tweaks that will allow his strengths to flourish in the majors. They try to mold all of their position players into the same hitter and all of their pitchers into the same pitcher. They wind up ironing out their strengths and producing a consistent level of medeocrity in their prospects.


Or a consistent level of suck amongst their prospects.



TJSweens -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/29/2016 10:52:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MDK
After he was making contact, then Tony O got him to drive that ball and look what we had. I am not saying Buxton could be a Kirby Puckett.....but he first has to make contact.


One of the great mysteries of the Twins decision making to me is why they suddenly decided Tony didn't know how to teach hitters any more.



MDK -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/29/2016 10:55:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: MDK
After he was making contact, then Tony O got him to drive that ball and look what we had. I am not saying Buxton could be a Kirby Puckett.....but he first has to make contact.


One of the great mysteries of the Twins decision making to me is why they suddenly decided Tony didn't know how to teach hitters any more.


That was a real head scratcher wasn't it.

Seems to me that exhibit Kirby Puckett, one of many players Tony helped, would have been enough.

Not to mention the others.

Tony kept it simple. Would love to have Tony take Buxton and work with him every day this offseason.



wethrock -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/29/2016 11:47:16 AM)

The saga of the former NBritain RockCats has now made page 1 of today's NewYork Times. They concentrate more on the effects on the 2016 players; not very much on the dishonest owner (Josh Solomon); the incompetent or worse former Mayor of Hartford (Pedro Segarra) who engineered the secret deal, or the Construction company.. As I said back in 2014, the Twins were smart to get out of business with the RockCats. If you have trouble accessing the article, try using a search using the writer's name (Gary Santaniello). Any company considering economic development ideas in Hartford CT should seriously reconsider.



Phil Riewer -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/29/2016 1:52:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MDK

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: MDK
After he was making contact, then Tony O got him to drive that ball and look what we had. I am not saying Buxton could be a Kirby Puckett.....but he first has to make contact.


One of the great mysteries of the Twins decision making to me is why they suddenly decided Tony didn't know how to teach hitters any more.


That was a real head scratcher wasn't it.

Seems to me that exhibit Kirby Puckett, one of many players Tony helped, would have been enough.

Not to mention the others.

Tony kept it simple. Would love to have Tony take Buxton and work with him every day this offseason.


Doesn't mean that Buxton can't give Tony O a call and set it up himself. I hope he does call Carew and/or Tony...bet both would be willing to help.



Mr. Ed -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/29/2016 3:28:56 PM)

GCL Twins lost 3-2

Salva 1-4/double/R/RBI

Munoz 1-3/BB/R
Just 4 hits

Fox 6IP 5H/R/4K
Kelly BS/1-3 3IP 4H/2R/K

GCL Twins 1 game down with 3 to play...



Mr. Ed -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/29/2016 3:30:09 PM)

Eliz clinched a playoff spot Sunday, CRapids magic # is 2 to clinch a playoff spot.



ewen21 -> RE: Players and prospects III (8/29/2016 5:55:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

It was pretty damn easy why there was all the hype regarding Buxton and it wasn't just the Twins. He was the highest rated position player in his draft. As a hitter he had an undisciplined mechanically flawed swing, but he has PHENOMENAL bat speed. Any team would look at that and say "if we can get him making consistent contact, good things will happen. Ugly as you think his running may be, it is very effective. He is the only player I have seen who can leg out a stand up triple out of a ball hit to left field. Buxton suffers the same problem as Kohl Stewart. The Twins as an organization don't know how to take an elite prospect and build around what he does well and make the tweaks that will allow his strengths to flourish in the majors. They try to mold all of their position players into the same hitter and all of their pitchers into the same pitcher. They wind up ironing out their strengths and producing a consistent level of medeocrity in their prospects.


The hype was something I just couldn't buy into. I am not so much into the prospect-mania like a lot of other fans are. The truth of the matter is, very few of these highly touted guys ever come through and it was a longshot to believe Buxton would. I saw people saying that his ceiling was MIke Trout and his floor was Torii Hunter. As if to say, he will be at least as good as Torii Hunter and if you don't believe it you are a) stupid and b) a negative creep.[&o]
He's looking like a cross between Mike Cameron and Cameron Maybin if you ask me. THe bat is severely lacking to the point where it is real hard to justify his position on the roster.

THe thing that concerns me about his running is that Mark is correct. His mechanics are horrible. Even I can notice it with my just two years of doing track. I did the mile relay, the baton pass and all that. Not saying I know that much about it, but I do see how Buxton runs and it does not look fluid like some other runners. He reminds me a bit of Jose Reyes (and most other speed first guys, quite frankly) in that there will be always injury concerns. Leg cramps, muscle pulls, etc...etc.. Generally speaking, speed guys not named Rickey Henderson usually lose that weapon by the time they are 30. Sometimes even sooner.



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