RE: Players and prospects III

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TJSweens -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/28/2015 2:49:58 PM)
Gibson and Arcia were up and down the previous season and not really full time major leaguers yet. In fact Arcia was even sent down for a while last year, so I still consider them as being produced out of the system in 2014. All four became full time starters last year. Really, how many players can realistically expect to come up and become starters right away. To say the Twins "got virtually no help from their system in 2014" is pretty far off the mark.

sixthwi -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/28/2015 2:56:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens Gibson and Arcia were up and down the previous season and not really full time major leaguers yet. In fact Arcia was even sent down for a while last year, so I still consider them as being produced out of the system in 2014. All four became full time starters last year. Really, how many players can realistically expect to come up and become starters right away. To say the Twins "got virtually no help from their system in 2014" is pretty far off the mark. Santana was 7th in ROY voting and only Abreu got more votes as a position player - but they got virtually no help. [&o]

djskillz -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/28/2015 3:01:17 PM)
I'm not disagreeing. In fact, I said exactly that in my first sentence posting it. But it really doesn't matter to the overall point of the farm system's strength. It's a good sign when Lewis Thorpe is not even quite in our top 10 prospects to most. He'd be top 5 in many systems.

twinsfan -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/28/2015 3:31:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens Gibson and Arcia were up and down the previous season and not really full time major leaguers yet. In fact Arcia was even sent down for a while last year, so I still consider them as being produced out of the system in 2014. All four became full time starters last year. Really, how many players can realistically expect to come up and become starters right away. To say the Twins "got virtually no help from their system in 2014" is pretty far off the mark. You didn't read Dustin's post very carefully.

Stacey King -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/28/2015 3:34:26 PM)
Hudson Boyd, a supplemental first round pick in 2012 who hasn't risen above Law A ball, will get to sit most of the first two months of the 2015 season after a second positive test for a "drug of abuse."

Mr. Ed -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/28/2015 3:39:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stacey King Hudson Boyd, a supplemental first round pick in 2012 who hasn't risen above Law A ball, will get to sit most of the first two months of the 2015 season after a second positive test for a "drug of abuse." Bust Bust Bust Wasted chances because he was projected as a bullpen guy So they farted around with him as a starter, with mixed results. At best. So back to the pen,they tried to install him as a closer. Didn't go well. And he's not helped himself, either.

Stacey King -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/28/2015 3:40:03 PM)
For a third time, pitcher Hudson Boyd has needed to be disciplined by either the Minnesota Twins or Major League Baseball. Boyd has been suspended 50 games after testing positive for a drug of abuse, according to MLB.com. Last season, he pitched for the low Class A Cedar Rapids (Iowa) Kernels, one level below the Class A Fort Myers Miracle. Boyd was chosen by the Twins with the No. 55 pick in the 2011 MLB Draft. Minnesota Twins director of minor leagues Brad Steil confirmed this is Boyd's second positive test. "We're just disappointed when something like this happens," Steil said. Last July, Boyd was suspended indefinitely for violating undisclosed team rules. After meeting with Boyd, Steil decided to lift the suspension after six days. "We just talked about expectations and making good decisions," Steil said at the time. "He's taking the steps to get back on the field and understands he made a mistake. He knows going forward he needs to make better decisions." After the latest disciplinary action taken, Steil said the organization hasn't thought of releasing Boyd but will keep working with him. "No we haven't," Steil said. "I think there are things we can do and things we've tried to do. We try to help all our players grow up and be professional. This is not the first player who has come up positive on a drug test." Steil said there is a treatment program with a protocol but couldn't get into specifics because of privacy issues. Last season, the 6-foot-3, 235-pounder went 4-4 with a 4.34 earned run average and seven saves for Cedar Rapids. In 44 games, no starts, he walked 31 and struck out 45 in 58 innings. Boyd, whose parents' house is just a few minutes from the Twins spring-training complex, still can practice. Steil said he's welcomed to come to the facility and work out. "We encourage all of our guys to be in Fort Myers and work out at our place," Steil said. "Staff is there year-round. We also have the player academy there. If players aren't from the area, they can stay for free. "For Hudson, this will be like extended spring training."

Stacey King -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/28/2015 3:42:48 PM)
TR is blindingly loyal to his scouting staff but the 2nd round, 3rd round, supplemental round bust pile gets higher and higher. It is not like they just miss on guys who stall in Triple A after initial success. They flame out quickly.

Mr. Ed -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/28/2015 3:50:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stacey King TR is blindingly loyal to his scouting staff but the 2nd round, 3rd round, supplemental round bust pile gets higher and higher. It is not like they just miss on guys who stall in Triple A after initial success. They flame out quickly. What a list of 2nd/3rd/4th round flameouts going back to 2005. So many barely to AA, let alone the bigs. Boyd Hank Sanchez Bashore Bullock Tootle Gutierrez Shooter Hunt Lanigan Ladendorf(traded early) Bam Bam Rams Angel Morales Reggie Williams Robertson Garrett Olson Whitney Robbins Andrew Thomson Paul Kelly And Boer, barely to AA After stupidly trying to make him a starter Eades, struggling in 2 straight seasons Bard, injured Chargois, ditto

Phil Riewer -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/28/2015 9:35:08 PM)
Isn't there like 50 rounds of the draft...they sign 30 and hope 3-4 make it to the majors.....definition of crap shoot. They have had more luck with the International Signings....maybe promote or trust the scout in that DEPT during the draft portion??? Would make too much sense. Vargas Sano Santana Arcia Polanco Rosario drafted in 4th round

djskillz -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/28/2015 9:49:52 PM)
The international pool is every bit the crap shoot. And they've also got Stewart, Berrios, and Buxton from the draft. Walker, Burdi, Reed, Gordon, etc. A lot of their top prospects. Not to mention Meyer and May, both from trades of in-house 1st rd picks in Span/Revere. It also gets a lot harder now in the international pool with the (BS) limits now.

CPAMAN -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/29/2015 7:48:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed quote: ORIGINAL: ewen21 quote: ORIGINAL: lylej http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasybaseball/update/24921963/chris-parmelee-bolts-twins-in-favor-of-free-agency Parmelee trying his luck elsewhere!! oh my. Whatever will we do? No doubt has observed what the writing on the wall is. Another draft pick BUST. Not according to his father though.

Phil Riewer -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/29/2015 7:52:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz The international pool is every bit the crap shoot. And they've also got Stewart, Berrios, and Buxton from the draft. Walker, Burdi, Reed, Gordon, etc. A lot of their top prospects. Not to mention Meyer and May, both from trades of in-house 1st rd picks in Span/Revere. It also gets a lot harder now in the international pool with the (BS) limits now. Yes it is a crap shoot but if you add Kepler to the mix they are having a higher percentage success in the international FA....

CPAMAN -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/29/2015 7:52:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed quote: ORIGINAL: Stacey King TR is blindingly loyal to his scouting staff but the 2nd round, 3rd round, supplemental round bust pile gets higher and higher. It is not like they just miss on guys who stall in Triple A after initial success. They flame out quickly. What a list of 2nd/3rd/4th round flameouts going back to 2005. So many barely to AA, let alone the bigs. Boyd Hank Sanchez Bashore Bullock Tootle Gutierrez Shooter Hunt Lanigan Ladendorf(traded early) Bam Bam Rams Angel Morales Reggie Williams Robertson Garrett Olson Whitney Robbins Andrew Thomson Paul Kelly And Boer, barely to AA After stupidly trying to make him a starter Eades, struggling in 2 straight seasons Bard, injured Chargois, ditto Gosh, none of these names rings a bell. [sm=scratch.gif][sm=scratch.gif]

djskillz -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/29/2015 8:44:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz The international pool is every bit the crap shoot. And they've also got Stewart, Berrios, and Buxton from the draft. Walker, Burdi, Reed, Gordon, etc. A lot of their top prospects. Not to mention Meyer and May, both from trades of in-house 1st rd picks in Span/Revere. It also gets a lot harder now in the international pool with the (BS) limits now. Yes it is a crap shoot but if you add Kepler to the mix they are having a higher percentage success in the international FA.... Maybe. Though 1) the draft isn't "really" 50 rounds. Teams know going in they're only going to sign around 20-25 guys. College is a looming option always with a lot of the guys. 2) There are tons of international signings that you just don't hear about. I'm always for international signings because you're not limited by the draft restrictions, etc. So I'm not arguing that. Just saying that the odds are always slim in just about anything in baseball with a signing/draft at such a young age. It's the toughest sport in the world to "make it" in.

TJSweens -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/29/2015 8:59:04 AM)
If your going to have a productive system you need to really do your homework on the drafts and really do your homework and be aggressive with international signings. Even when you are good, the fail rate is very high for both routes. The Twins currently have a high ranked system. I can only imagine how good it could be if they would quit wasting high picks on college relievers with the idea of converting them to starters.

djskillz -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/29/2015 9:03:55 AM)
No doubt. And people aren't really focusing on it yet (we've touched on it a little bit in here) but the Twins do have a really promising new crop coming in the lower levels from the academies. That's been a big boost to the Twins in recent years; a developing big footprint in that world down there. They have one of the best now. That should pay off in a few years as well.

Phil Riewer -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/29/2015 9:03:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz The international pool is every bit the crap shoot. And they've also got Stewart, Berrios, and Buxton from the draft. Walker, Burdi, Reed, Gordon, etc. A lot of their top prospects. Not to mention Meyer and May, both from trades of in-house 1st rd picks in Span/Revere. It also gets a lot harder now in the international pool with the (BS) limits now. Yes it is a crap shoot but if you add Kepler to the mix they are having a higher percentage success in the international FA.... Maybe. Though 1) the draft isn't "really" 50 rounds. Teams know going in they're only going to sign around 20-25 guys. College is a looming option always with a lot of the guys. 2) There are tons of international signings that you just don't hear about. I'm always for international signings because you're not limited by the draft restrictions, etc. So I'm not arguing that. Just saying that the odds are always slim in just about anything in baseball with a signing/draft at such a young age. It's the toughest sport in the world to "make it" in. True but they sign over half....and are lucky to get 10-20% success rate....I listed 10 international guys and the Twins only sign 5-7 popular international guys and 2-3 no name international guys a year..... By the way I forgot Wilson Ramos, Josmil Pinto, Luis Rivas, Juan Rincon, Luke Hughes.... So just throwing out some of the international signings: Juan Rincon Luis Rivas Luke Hughes Josmil Pinto Wilson Ramos M Sano D Santana Vargas Kepler O Arcia J Polanco

djskillz -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/29/2015 9:06:06 AM)
Those are just the ones you hear about Phil. They're always signing a lot more than that through the academy system, etc. They've done pretty well on that front. Obviously Sano makes it really good. But the bust rate is still quite high. The system is still unfair/broken. It should just be one international draft with caps, etc. Right now there are many instances where an American teenager or 22 year old get screwed compared to a Cuban counterpart. And the opposite can happen now too with the international slotting system.

Phil Riewer -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/29/2015 9:14:18 AM)
They sign 7-10 a year for the last few years. Look at who the young up and comers were on the team last year......Santana, Arcia, and Vargas. Sano and Polanco will be up soon. When you compare how much money they spend on the draft versus the international portion........there is no comparason.

Black 47 -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/29/2015 9:15:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lylej http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasybaseball/update/24921963/chris-parmelee-bolts-twins-in-favor-of-free-agency Parmelee trying his luck elsewhere!! I'll miss his wife.

djskillz -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/29/2015 9:18:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer They sign 7-10 a year for the last few years. Look at who the young up and comers were on the team last year......Santana, Arcia, and Vargas. Sano and Polanco will be up soon. When you compare how much money they spend on the draft versus the international portion........there is no comparason. I'm not arguing that. International signings pretty much always do better than the draft, for all teams, because there's a lot of other factors. A bunch of the "top" picks are going to go to college instead of the pros, etc. It's why more and more teams are taking advantage of the international pool than ever before. But the bust rate is higher for international signings than you're making it out to be too. They sign more than that every year at lower levels. The average team signs around 30 international guys per year, about the same or a little more than they do in the draft. You just don't hear about most of them.

Mr. Ed -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/29/2015 10:39:26 AM)
Keith Law, a former baseball executive and current prospect evaluator for ESPN, released his annual top-100 prospects list on Thursday (link requires ESPN Insider account). Buxton topped that list a year ago, but various wrist, finger and concussion injuries limited him to just 198 plate appearances, including his injury-shortened stint in the Arizona Fall League. That season certainly must have tested Buxton's patience, but it didn't do much to diminish his standing, among the best prospects in the game -- at least the way Law sees it. Law ranked Buxton second, behind only Cubs' third base prospect Kris Bryant. (Bryant had an incredible year and figures to be a middle-of-the-order bat for the Cubs this year and for the foreseeable future. His numbers across two levels were gaudy: .325/.438/.661 with 43 home runs and 15 stolen bases.) By comparison, Buxton's numbers in 2014 were uninspiring, but it's not all about numbers for Law. The underlying tools that had the Twins pounce on Buxton with the second pick in the 2012 draft are still there, Law writes. Those tools include an 80 grade for both running and arm strength on the 20-80 scouting scale. In other words, pretty much no player is faster and no player has a better arm. A year defined by injuries hasn't changed that. Buxton is a big reason Law on Wednesday ranked the Twins' farm system second in baseball, behind only the loaded Chicago Cubs' minor league system. Other Twins appearing in the top-100: Miguel Sano (15), down from No. 8 overall last year. He missed all of 2014 after having Tommy John surgery on his right (throwing) arm in spring training. He says he's back to 100 percent now, and will report to Fort Myers early to get started. Law believes Sano has 80-grade raw power (top of the charts) and could hit 30-35 home runs in the Majors, calling him the "Twins' cleanup hitter of the future." Alex Meyer (30), up from No. 62 last year. The Twins have talked about the possibility of moving Meyer to the bullpen - at least to start the season - as a way to get him on the 25-man roster. Law believes that with two above-average pitches (fastball and slider) and a history of durability, a permanent bullpen move would be wasting some of Meyer's talent. Nick Gordon (43), in his first season of pro ball. The 19-year-old had an impressive pro debut in rookie ball playing for the Elizabethton Twins. He hit .294/.333/.699 in his first season out of high school. He's a way from the Majors, of course, but his first season was encouraging for the Twins. A top-50 spot on Law's prospect ranking list is nothing to sneeze at. Kohl Stewart (53), up from No. 76 last year. Law believes Stewart "hast the potential to front a rotation given a few more years of development." He probably has a longer ways to go than some other Twins pitching prospects, but at age 20, the ceiling appears awfully high for Stewart. J.O Berrios (97), jumps into the top-100 after not making the list last year. While Berrios says his goal is to make the opening day roster in 2015, Law writes that he believes the young right-hander is eventually destined for the bullpen. His size (six-foot, 187 pounds) may work against him, but he's had impressive strikeout rates in the low minors.

TJSweens -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/29/2015 10:43:03 AM)
I find it really surprising how long it is taking scouts to warm up to Berrios.

djskillz -> RE: Players and prospects III (1/29/2015 10:51:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens I find it really surprising how long it is taking scouts to warm up to Berrios. It's all about the size argument, which is a valid concern. Still, I think he'll overcome it with his work ethic.

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